2016 National Champs

Harrybelafonte

Could a number of clubs join together to host the events?

RobFowl

Lets run it in Fingal.

Beasty

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Could a number of clubs join together to host the events?

As I've already mentioned there's nothing to stop clubs helping out Orwell here given the circumstances

I'm not sure to what extent CI rules allow "joint promotion" of nationals and it may require one club to be the nominated "lead" club (where the glory rests, or the buck stops!!)

2016 is now more to do with the logistics of actually pulling together an event of adequate quality in such a short timescale, or finding a way of deferring them until later in the year.

RobFowl

Fwiw Beasty Swords and stamullen jointly promoted the national champs back in about 2000

Edit was in 2002

morana

a promotions group consisting of 6 or more licence holders could promote it if they pitched to CI and they accepted it.

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

As I've already mentioned there's nothing to stop clubs helping out Orwell here given the circumstances

I'm not sure to what extent CI rules allow "joint promotion" of nationals and it may require one club to be the nominated "lead" club (where the glory rests, or the buck stops!!)

2016 is now more to do with the logistics of actually pulling together an event of adequate quality in such a short timescale, or finding a way of deferring them until later in the year.

My understanding is that plan B is well under way and they will happen.Actually Orwell might get more bodies to row in now than previous,seeing as they keep hitting obstacles.I have already volunteered to help with service etc and I'm sure many more will come on board also.
I know its a pain in the butt for them now,having to change/alter etc,but to be honest it could pan out to be a better event.Was never mad about the park for the champs from the start.For night gallops etc Yes but for the champs No.

rochefan

Beasty wrote: »

They do sort out the medals and jerseys as well as someone to present them....

Not sure they even do that, was talking to womens champ a few years back and she had to give back the jersey as it was needed for the mens race the next day which I thought was a bit harsh

Harrybelafonte

rochefan wrote: »

Not sure they even do that, was talking to womens champ a few years back and she had to give back the jersey as it was needed for the mens race the next day which I thought was a bit harsh

That's only for the presentation. You get your proper jersey/skinsuit in the post a week or two later.

Can't have the right sizes for everyone on the day.

greenspurs

morana wrote: »

a promotions group consisting of 6 or more licence holders could promote it if they pitched to CI and they accepted it.

They would probably charge them all ... massively for the honour of running the National Championships for them..... Cyclin£ I$€land :mad:

zurbfoundation

pretty shameful that the original plan of a munster club hosting couldn't happen, Clonmel CC hosted it just a few years ago, have barely any racers these days, plus run another very large event annually - I can think of a couple of decent sized and well known Munster clubs that don't even hold a Sunday race - pity they didn't step up.

Plastik

zurbfoundation wrote: »

pretty shameful that the original plan of a munster club hosting couldn't happen, Clonmel CC hosted it just a few years ago, have barely any racers these days, plus run another very large event annually - I can think of a couple of decent sized and well known Munster clubs that don't even hold a Sunday race - pity they didn't step up.

No, it's pretty shameful that Cycling Ireland don't organise and run the National Championships each year and that it's pushed back on clubs to "step up" and organise it. There's not a single club, of volunteers, in the country should feel shame for not being willing to take on the task.

irishpeloton

Blessington!

http://www.orwellwheelers.org/56-general/984-national-road-race-championships-new-route

1bryan

this was the first route that came to mind when it was announced they were looking for another route.

I'd prefer them doing the circuit in the other direction, but regardless, i'm ridiculously excited to see them racing those roads.

well done Orwell!

slow

Is it a tough course?

1bryan

slow wrote: »

Is it a tough course?

not much flat on it. The lakes are very lumpy with a combination of short, sharp ramps, and a couple of longer drags (such as the one by the graveyard before lacken).

It'll be an Ardennes classic type parcours, though nothing too steep on there.

Taxuser1

very tough course. after 2/3 laps this will be hard, after 7 or 8 riders will be all over the circuit in ones and twos.

narrow, hard, dead road around the back of the circuit through Lacken, little climbs that zap and with the roads twisting all the time. out of sight out of mind. that being said, the shelter there will make it really fast racing on the hardest part of the circuit.

JK.BMC

If the champs is staged around the lakes, then 6 or 7 laps will absolutely kill the field. What an incredible course that would be - some of us have pondered over the years about the very notion of it. We considered running a time trial around it also a few years ago but backed out. Suffice to say that once thye field turns off the road towards Valleymount, there isn't an inch of flat until you return to the bridge over the lake back into Blessington. And the climbs are all draggy and the roads heavy. About 20 or so finishers in the elite race I expect.

stecleary

Hats of to Orwell, Hope everything goes smoothly from here on in

harringtonp

Presume they are looking at a loop running anti clockwise around the main lake and over the 3 bridges.

Will roads be closed ? Was looking at maps to see how a detour on the N81 would go and it looks feasible alright. Or as it is a short stretch on the N81 they may hold traffic....

Homer1798

This will be a selective course, I reckon on 11 noticeable drags/climbs? on it in what? 22km? It's hard to see a group coming to the finish in the Elite races,narrow roads around the lakes could play a major part if you need service and the bunch is split to bits, descent into the right hand bend from Ballyknockan could be dodgy if it's wet. I would predict that the Masters races will split to pieces, but in saying that whoever wins on this circuit will be a worthy National Champion.

DDC1990

What are the chances of a Dan Martin/Nico/Deignan racing this and winning it? Would be great to see the Irish Champions jersey in the Pro Peloton again.

With no flat it kind of rules the likes of Bennett and Mullen out I suppose

wirelessdude01

Would say Nico is nailed on for this.

SetOverSet

Yep, looks like Roche will be there alright...

https://www.facebook.com/118995384809273/videos/1105468296161972/

TGD

Plastik wrote: »

No, it's pretty shameful that Cycling Ireland don't organise and run the National Championships each year and that it's pushed back on clubs to "step up" and organise it. There's not a single club, of volunteers, in the country should feel shame for not being willing to take on the task.

Who, or what, exactly do you mean by "Cycling Ireland"?
And, are you referring to just the Senior/Master Road Champs, or all the other Champs also?

Eamonnator

TGD wrote: »

Who, or what, exactly do you mean by "Cycling Ireland"?
And, are you referring to just the Senior/Master Road Champs, or all the other Champs also?

Well, if they run the Senior/Master Road Champs, they'll have to run the the Cyclocross Champs, XC MTB Champs, DH MTB Champs, BMX Champs, Enduro Champs. Marathon XC Champs, T.T. Champs.
That'll keep them quiet.

Oh and I forgot the Track Champs.

Mr. Grieves

DDC1990 wrote: »

With no flat it kind of rules the likes of Bennett and Mullen out I suppose

I would disagree with that, these are not high mountains. In fact I'd argue that Deignan will never win an Irish champs, as there are no climbs in the country long enough for such a pure climber.

stecleary

Eamonnator wrote: »

Well, if they run the Senior/Master Road Champs, they'll have to run the the Cyclocross Champs, XC MTB Champs, DH MTB Champs, BMX Champs, Enduro Champs. Marathon XC Champs, T.T. Champs.
That'll keep them quiet.

Oh and I forgot the Track Champs.

and all the Para disciplines too. they should be bloody paying for them all. its too much to ask clubs to pay for them. how much does a road closure cost for a weekend?

Raam

stecleary wrote: »

and all the Para disciplines too. they should be bloody paying for them all. its too much to ask clubs to pay for them. how much does a road closure cost for a weekend?

Get the leisure cyclists to pay for it all.

DDC1990

Mr. Grieves wrote: »

I would disagree with that, these are not high mountains. In fact I'd argue that Deignan will never win an Irish champs, as there are no climbs in the country long enough for such a pure climber.

Fair enough. I haven't had a chance to look at the route profile, just going on what was said here that it's got no flat parts.

I wouldn't have great knowledge of cycling, only what I would see during Grand Tours/Classics.

TGD

Eamonnator wrote: »

Well, if they run the Senior/Master Road Champs, they'll have to run the the Cyclocross Champs, XC MTB Champs, DH MTB Champs, BMX Champs, Enduro Champs. Marathon XC Champs, T.T. Champs.
That'll keep them quiet.

Oh and I forgot the Track Champs.

It's four different track champs 'they' would have to do - Senior, Masters, Youth and Junior. Add the Youth Road Champs too. But who are 'they'?

Pudsy33

Bennett could well cope i would say, and Mullen too. Sam will be doing the tour though so unlikely he will feature.

JK.BMC

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Bennett could well cope i would say, and Mullen too. Sam will be doing the tour though so unlikely he will feature.

Yes- protour riders tend to be a class of their own and they would all have a chance on this type of route. But you would have to say Roche would likely drop Bennett given the constant rolls; nobody wants to bring a sprinter to the finish of course.

1bryan

DDC1990 wrote: »

Fair enough. I haven't had a chance to look at the route profile, just going on what was said here that it's got no flat parts.

if its going anti-clockwise from Blessington village, around the lakes, then there will be a couple of miles of a stretch of flat to downhill.

From Blessington village, south to the turn-off for the lake drive, is pretty much all flat to downhill (I'd say a 2-mile stretch). Then, from that turn-off to the turn onto the lake drive itself (beyond Valleymount), its undulating, but there's a good stretch of flat to downhill there too.

Its the left turn beyond Valleymount that the fireworks will start. There won't be a bit of flat until they return to Blessington village.

The sign at the bridge on the Kilbride side of the lake drive says 15km to Blessington. It always felt like more than that to me. But if it is a 15km circuit, we're looking at about, what?, 15 laps?

15 laps of the Blessington lakes, at racing speed, is going to sap every bit of energy from the body. This race will be very attritional.

I don't see where theres any point on the circuit that would benefit a climber over a more heavily-build, powerful rider. But, given Dan Martin's record in the Ardennes classics, if he rides, he'd be the out-and-out favourite for me.

nilhg

1bryan wrote: »

if its going anti-clockwise from Blessington village, around the lakes, then there will be a couple of miles of a stretch of flat to downhill.

From Blessington village, south to the turn-off for the lake drive, is pretty much all flat to downhill (I'd say a 2-mile stretch). Then, from that turn-off to the turn onto the lake drive itself (beyond Valleymount), its undulating, but there's a good stretch of flat to downhill there too.

Its the left turn beyond Valleymount that the fireworks will start. There won't be a bit of flat until they return to Blessington village.

The sign at the bridge on the Kilbride side of the lake drive says 15km to Blessington. It always felt like more than that to me. But if it is a 15km circuit, we're looking at about, what?, 15 laps?

15 laps of the Blessington lakes, at racing speed, is going to sap every bit of energy from the body. This race will be very attritional.

I don't see where theres any point on the circuit that would benefit a climber over a more heavily-build, powerful rider. But, given Dan Martin's record in the Ardennes classics, if he rides, he'd be the out-and-out favourite for me.

It's a 25.5km/323m circuit so maybe 7 laps? That's presuming that this is the route, but it's hard to see any alternative?

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/13984072

If the pub at Ballyknockan is open it could be a great day out, though I don't know if I'd be able for riding the bike home at the end of it, the publican should be testing the market for Belgian beers and stocking up..... A big screen keeping us up to date would be handy too......

Seriously though it looks like a proper test the winner will have earned his champions jersey

Harrybelafonte

Eamonnator wrote: »

Well, if they run the Senior/Master Road Champs, they'll have to run the the Cyclocross Champs, XC MTB Champs, DH MTB Champs, BMX Champs, Enduro Champs. Marathon XC Champs, T.T. Champs.
That'll keep them quiet.

Oh and I forgot the Track Champs.

AFAIK

1. Enduro has nothing to do with the UCI and absolutely nothing to do with CI, so, the popularity of the World's here shows how events can be run successfully without the help of CI

2. Track Champs? On a National level track championships include
Team Pursuit
Team Sprint
Omnium (men's and Women's)
500m
Match Sprint
Scratch
etc, and a similar rake in Women's, Senior, Masters, juniors

AFAIK, the track championships are primarily organised by the Track Commission, along with the International GP, which is a UCI sanctioned event with points and all.

IS the abscence of a Road Comission the reason a club has t undertake the the running of the Road/TT National Championships?

Taxuser1

nilhg wrote: »

It's a 25.5km/323m circuit so maybe 7 laps? That's presuming that this is the route, but it's hard to see any alternative?

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/13984072

If the pub at Ballyknockan is open it could be a great day out, though I don't know if I'd be able for riding the bike home at the end of it, the publican should be testing the market for Belgian beers and stocking up..... A big screen keeping us up to date would be handy too......

Seriously though it looks like a proper test the winner will have earned his champions jersey

They should have a jersey for the ride back from Ballyknockan to the city over Ballinascorney

smurphy29

Great route, it will be attritional and selective, though not one for the pure climbers; more a strongman's course. Deignan is a real 'diesel' engine who would need a very long hard climb to simply ride everyone off his wheel one by one. These climbs are more for the 'puncheurs'.

These national races can be quite unpredictable because nobody really has the team to control them. The big names have to fend for themselves. Last year Matt Brammeier was an almost unbankable favrourite after riding into the champs in superb form, but in the end he missed what turned out to be the key move and it was race over. That said, I'd expect to see Damien Shaw right in the mix in defending his title.

CramCycle

Wonder what the TT route will be, would they go for the Sally Gap hill climb TT?

JK.BMC

A Sally Gap TT route would be highly unlikely - in fact it would be pretty much a disgrace if they turned what is a national elite time trial into a 12km slog up a mountain road; it would make no sense to me. That is more for club riders who want a challenge, or lads to post times on strava. Not suitable for a national championship at all.

CramCycle

JK.BMC wrote: »

A Sally Gap TT route would be highly unlikely - in fact it would be pretty much a disgrace if they turned what is a national elite time trial into a 12km slog up a mountain road; it would make no sense to me. That is more for club riders who want a challenge, or lads to post times on strava. Not suitable for a national championship at all.

I have no idea, trying to figure out TT courses in the area, most of them are hill climbs as far as I know, the bohernabreena one was actually the one I meant to say but that would be exactly as you described.

What courses are there in the area?

JK.BMC

CramCycle wrote: »

I have no idea, trying to figure out TT courses in the area, most of them are hill climbs as far as I know, the bohernabreena one was actually the one I meant to say but that would be exactly as you described.

What courses are there in the area?

N81 out and back seems an obvious one; Blesso-Naas- Ballymore etc is near 30km; whatever the organisers decide it's pretty likely that some rolling roads will be involved.

CramCycle

JK.BMC wrote: »

N81 out and back seems an obvious one; Blesso-Naas- Ballymore etc is near 30km; whatever the organisers decide it's pretty likely that some rolling roads will be involved.

I thought that but wasn't sure whether the N81 would be OK considering the horrendously stupid driving and the presuming lack of closed roads. Or will the Gardai be out providing friendly warnings to motorists to behave.

I rode most of the course last night, grown men will cry is my prediction.

Inquitus

CramCycle wrote: »

I rode most of the course last night, grown men will cry is my prediction.

I agree, Lake Drive multiple times will really sap the legs, its deceptively difficult.

Harrybelafonte

Didn't An Rás or another big race go up Sorrell Hill there before?

JK.BMC

Yes - Nissan Classic one year; Martin Earley won the KOM. And I appeared on TV waving him by at the top. Wouldn't send a mountain bike race up there now, road is in pure sh1te!

Harrybelafonte

JK.BMC wrote: »

Yes - Nissan Classic one year; Martin Earley won the KOM. And I appeared on TV waving him by at the top. Wouldn't send a mountain bike race up there now, road is in pure sh1te!

Really? That long ago? Messages still painted in the road the last time I went up. Agree, awful surface now.

1bryan

CramCycle wrote: »

I have no idea, trying to figure out TT courses in the area, most of them are hill climbs as far as I know, the bohernabreena one was actually the one I meant to say but that would be exactly as you described.

What courses are there in the area?

a (flattish) possibility could be;

From Blessington, take the N81 back towards Dublin.
Right turn at the golf course just before Brittas
Manor Kilbride Village
First right turn just after the village
(the backroad down to the lakes)
Blessington Village

I reckon that loop would be a good 30km at least.


Or, the same route in the opposite direction to save having to take that right turn and cut across traffic. The could manage it with a partial closure of the N81 - the road is wide enough to not have to close it completely.

I wonder, is the TT route decided on yet?

harringtonp

Have definite start times been given yet for various races ? CI page has most of them starting at 11

morana

1bryan wrote: »

a (flattish) possibility could be;

From Blessington, take the N81 back towards Dublin.
Right turn at the golf course just before Brittas
Manor Kilbride Village
First right turn just after the village
(the backroad down to the lakes)
Blessington Village

I reckon that loop would be a good 30km at least.


Or, the same route in the opposite direction to save having to take that right turn and cut across traffic. The could manage it with a partial closure of the N81 - the road is wide enough to not have to close it completely.

I wonder, is the TT route decided on yet?

for the RR AFAIK the loop has to be between 10km and 25kms

Irish Raven

Any confirmed route for this....and a link via strava or the like :-) .....its penciled in as 150km plus...