Why won't some people listen

ba_barabus

So I got a call this evening looking for help from a friend. Their 142reg Mazda 3 2.2 has a warning light on. Turns out to be a red engine light with the warning of low oil pressure. I told them stop and get it towed and do not attempt to drive any further as they were at the start of a long trip.

I then get a call back from them. Turns out they called the main dealer who said it's perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. They spoke to a mechanic.

Now I'm not a mechanic and at no time did they even ask them you check the engine oil level but tfat sounds like the worst possible advice you could give anyone.

Puzzled now as to why they called me now. Seems they just rang someone else to hear what they wanted.

End question, was my advice right or was I being a drama queen?

colm_mcm

You were right, if you said to drive it on and the engine blew it'd be all your fault
To be fair, the dealer deals with Mazda everyday.

People are strange like that though.

ba_barabus

colm_mcm wrote: »

You were right, if you said to drive it on and the engine blew it'd be all your fault
To be fair, the dealer deals with Mazda everyday.

People are strange like that though.

I know the dealers know the car but he never asked him to check the oil level. Told him to just top it up with a liter when he gets a chance. Given that engine rep I'd have stopped regardless of what I was told by them. Good luck proving it if you have to make a warranty claim

debabyjesus

Sure it'll be grand just stop in the next garage and get a 5 gallon drum of tractor oil. Make sure you shake the drum and it's good thick oil not that watery synthetic ****e. Fill it till it pours out the filler cap that way you'll know it's full and you can drive for years before you open the bonnet again.

colm_mcm

ba_barabus wrote: »

I know the dealers know the car but he never asked him to check the oil level. Told him to just top it up with a liter when he gets a chance. Given that engine rep I'd have stopped regardless of what I was told by them. Good luck proving it if you have to make a warranty claim

They might know when it was serviced last.

_Brian

Also some people have a desired answer in mind when they ring to ask something. They'll often keep asking someone until they get that answer and then they are happy because it agrees with what they wanted in the first place.

I wonder if the engine was dead from being driven on a red warning light, would the dealer have stood over their decision or pushed it back on the owner, I suspect the latter.

*Kol*

It would be strange to tell somebody to drive with a low oil pressure light on. Maybe it wasn't the low oil pressure light?

JohnBoy26

To be fair they did listen though. Fair enough they didn't take your advice but your advice was enough for them to call the main dealers.

ba_barabus

colm_mcm wrote: »

They might know when it was serviced last.

I think that was last summer about 15k kms ago at least

Atlantic Dawn

I suppose their warranty is up in July or there after and the dealer told them to do that but it might be another story getting the dealer to replace the engine free of charge.

Cerco

I would question the purpose of a red warning light if it can be so easily ignored.
What remedy would the motorist have against the main dealer / manufacturer if the engine seized having followed the advice to ignore?

Needles73

I strongly doubt that anyone with half a brain would have ok'd to be going around with the oil light on. They are either an idiot or a different light was on or at least they understood a different light was on.

Nonoperational

ba_barabus wrote: »

So I got a call this evening looking for help from a friend. Their 142reg Mazda 3 2.2 has a warning light on. Turns out to be a red engine light with the warning of low oil pressure. I told them stop and get it towed and do not attempt to drive any further as they were at the start of a long trip.

I then get a call back from them. Turns out they called the main dealer who said it's perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. They spoke to a mechanic.

Now I'm not a mechanic and at no time did they even ask them you check the engine oil level but tfat sounds like the worst possible advice you could give anyone.

Puzzled now as to why they called me now. Seems they just rang someone else to hear what they wanted.

End question, was my advice right or was I being a drama queen?

Wouldn't believe that sequence of events for a second. Obviously a red oil pressure warning light is serious. There's more to this story than they told you.

OldMrBrennan83

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JohnBoy26

Patww79 wrote: »

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In fairness in the op's post it does say that they spoke to a mechanic at the main dealers. It's not as if it was the person at the desk giving them the advice.

Nonoperational

Patww79 wrote: »

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Well he's certainly an idiot if he drove away with a red oil warning light on.

R.O.R

Hopefully they won't have to wait too long for the recovery truck.

grogi

Nonoperational wrote: »

Well he's certainly an idiot if he drove away with a red oil warning light on.

Penny was driving with "check engine light" for years...

R.O.R wrote: »

Hopefully they won't have to wait too long for the recovery truck.

Dealer has already booked it

ba_barabus

Nonoperational wrote: »

Well he's certainly an idiot if he drove away with a red oil warning light on.

Sequence of events is correct and that red engine light is on with the low oil pressure warning message showing. I'm sitting in the car right now.

And yes it was the main dealer where the car was bought that was called. My friend, close enough friend that I know they're not lying has gotten a telling off for what it's worth .

I agree an idiot but if they felt the advice of the main dealer mechanic was worth more than someone with just a strong interest in cars. In fairness though, for none motoring people they will take the advice if a so called expert.

Nonoperational

That's terrible. Of all the lights a red oil light is an absolute no no.

John T Carroll

Its just simply inconceivable that any main dealer or/and any mechanic would state that its normal to drive any car with a annunciated oil pressure alarm.

fully floating

I have that same engine in a cx-5 throwing in more oil is as big of a problem, the oil rises on the dipstick when it needs changed there is an x on the dipstick above the max fill level, the dpf dumps into the sump which thins out the oil which then leads to low oil pressure, up shot of this I change the oil every 10k

grogi

fully floating wrote: »

I have that same engine in a cx-5 throwing in more oil is as big of a problem, the oil rises on the dipstick when it needs changed there is an x on the dipstick above the max fill level, the dpf dumps into the sump which thins out the oil which then leads to low oil pressure, up shot of this I change the oil every 10k

Although I can guess your intentions, it is a very long phrase with very little sense... How the hell dpf gets in the sump?!

JohnBoy26

grogi wrote: »

Although I can guess your intentions, it is a very long phrase with very little sense... How the hell dpf gets in the sump?!

Diesel gets dumped into the sump which causes the oil level to rise. The post makes sense but is a little difficult to read

OldMrBrennan83

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colm_mcm

I'm guessing that the mechanic knows his stuff, and that the oil light is a bit conservative.

grogi

Patww79 wrote: »

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I always blamed the SkyActiv diesels - low compression ratio, low NOx but low exhaust temperature as well. Low exhaust temp means DPF can't passively reduce the soot, thus the active process starts often.

But I guess I was wrong...

ba_barabus

colm_mcm wrote: »

I'm guessing that the mechanic knows his stuff, and that the oil light is a bit conservative.

Checked on the dipstick and it's at the X Mark as mentioned above.

Service due in 2k kms at 35k. Dealer has set service intervals at 15k kms. Not sure what Mazda themselves say. Car was bought at 5k kms as it was a demo in case anyone is wondering why the service is slightly out.

I can only guess the mechanic knows his stuff but I was very surprised tbh.

shietpilot

Diesel in oil sump ffs. Why didn't Mazda just attach a C4 to the engine block and make the engine blow up whenever the NOx levels get too high...

John T Carroll

grogi wrote: »

Although I can guess your intentions, it is a very long phrase with very little sense... How the hell dpf gets in the sump?!

Probably while its doing an active regeneration where fuel is injected very late to get the DPF temperature up to burn off the soot, this probably results in some diesel getting into the sump, this happens in most diesels but it must be a big problem in this make if its causing the oil pressure to drop that far, so how do you know if its a "real" oil pressure problem?.

colm_mcm

shietpilot wrote: »

Diesel in oil sump ffs. Why didn't Mazda just attach a C4 to the engine block and make the engine blow up whenever the NOx levels get too high...

They used to use a C4 engine in the Mazda3 funnily enough!

OldMrBrennan83

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shietpilot

Patww79 wrote: »

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Yeah and I'm surprised they haven't done it in this case, instead of involving DPF and other crap!

The EGR scenario is bad, but wow, the DPF problems are even worse. I honestly haven't heard of anyone not having problems with the DPF even with high mileage.

On my last visit I saw a Transit van getting a DPF regeneration at the Ford dealership. Sure being a van we know for sure it does the mileage required for regeneration so it just proves that this technology just doesn't work...

ba_barabus

My own Alfa has never given a DPF issue in 206k kms. Fingers crossed it keeps going that way . Then again I don't use it for any short trips and when it's doing a regeneration it's allowed to finish.

colm_mcm

ba_barabus wrote: »

My own Alfa has never given a DPF issue in 206k kms. Fingers crossed it keeps going that way . Then again I don't use it for any short trips and when it's doing a regeneration it's allowed to finish.

Same story on the mothers yoke, 193k
It's not a dead cert that it'll give problems.

grogi

colm_mcm wrote: »

Same story on the mothers yoke, 193k
It's not a dead cert that it'll give problems.

If people use generic oil, not a low SAPS one - what can they expect?

mullingar

John T Carroll wrote: »

Probably while its doing an active regeneration where fuel is injected very late to get the DPF temperature up to burn off the soot, this probably results in some diesel getting into the sump, this happens in most diesels but it must be a big problem in this make if its causing the oil pressure to drop that far, so how do you know if its a "real" oil pressure problem?.

The only way diesel can get into a sump is either a faulty injector that cannot atomise the fuel so the liquid diesel gathers on the piston Crown and weeps past the piston rings into the sump or there is shag all compression so the vapour just condenses and weeps into the sump.

Dpf's have nothing to do with oil or the sump. What normally happens is the fuel injection timing is adjusted to increase the exhaust temp which burns the soot in the Dpf, there is no connection with the sump or oil.


But either way, low oil pressure WILL kill an engine.

Oil pressure is critical in keeping everything lubricated.

Oil pressure is created inside the engine with the oil pump trying to push oil volume into a restricted area, pressure = force (flow) /area (oil clearances). The biggest killer of oil pressure is wear on the crankshaft from either the big end bearings( where the piston connecting rod meets the crankshaft) or the main bearings (where the crankshaft meets the engine block) and the oil leaks past them. if there is any wear on any of these bearings the oil pressure collapses and is unable to lubricate the top of the engine where the camshafts live and their job is to open/close the valves. No oil here will kill the engine very quickly . This all assumes that the oil pump is working 100%.

monkeysnapper

My neighbor has mazdas . When he had his Mazda 6 brand new in 2014 after a few weeks he had this exact same issue while away in middle of know where .

He had a day from hell , car got towed to a Mazda dealer and it was dpf filter problems. I think he said they told him to drive the **** out of it .

I thought it was funny cause I drive old crap cars cause I'm poor and mine never break down , I enjoy asking him often if it's broken down much lately .

jimgoose

mullingar wrote: »

The only way diesel can get into a sump is either a faulty injector that cannot atomise the fuel so the liquid diesel gathers on the piston Crown and weeps past the piston rings into the sump or there is shag all compression so the vapour just condenses and weeps into the sump.

Dpf's have nothing to do with oil or the sump. What normally happens is the fuel injection timing is adjusted to increase the exhaust temp which burns the soot in the Dpf, there is no connection with the sump or oil.


But either way, low oil pressure WILL kill an engine.

Oil pressure is critical in keeping everything lubricated.

Oil pressure is created inside the engine with the oil pump trying to push oil volume into a restricted area, pressure = force (flow) /area (oil clearances). The biggest killer of oil pressure is wear on the crankshaft from either the big end bearings( where the piston connecting rod meets the crankshaft) or the main bearings (where the crankshaft meets the engine block) and the oil leaks past them. if there is any wear on any of these bearings the oil pressure collapses and is unable to lubricate the top of the engine where the camshafts live and their job is to open/close the valves. No oil here will kill the engine very quickly . This all assumes that the oil pump is working 100%.

DPF regen involves injecting fuel during the exhaust stroke to crank up the temperature. Mazda are going at it too hard in the SkyActiv, hence the oil-dilution issue. The Aussies told them to fcuk off with their rubbish, as they do:

http://www.motoring.com.au/mazda-announces-fix-for-cx-5-oil-problem-34231/

colm_mcm

You'd imagine there would have been a list of mistakes not to repeat with the new engine..

John T Carroll

jimgoose wrote: »

DPF regen involves injecting fuel during the exhaust stroke to crank up the temperature. Mazda are going at it too hard in the SkyActiv, hence the oil-dilution issue. The Aussies told them to fcuk off with their rubbish, as they do:

http://www.motoring.com.au/mazda-announces-fix-for-cx-5-oil-problem-34231/

Yes, the fuel is burned in the DPF to get the temperature up...thats why you can get luboil dilution.

jimgoose

colm_mcm wrote: »

You'd imagine there would have been a list of mistakes not to repeat with the new engine..

The computer will never be the equal of Man, while He keeps doing the fcukan eejit with such extraordinary regularity.

JohnBoy26

colm_mcm wrote: »

You'd imagine there would have been a list of mistakes not to repeat with the new engine..

Not since the days of the 626 have they had a truly reliable diesel engine.

Esel

Computer says...

John T Carroll

Here is a link to Active Regenerations causing dilution but not in the OP,s make but I imagine its similiar, it states that up to 45% dilution is acceptable, there must be a big rise in the dipstick level??. Diesel in itself (while not to be recommended in engine sumps) is a excellent lubricant otherwise all high pressure fuel injection pump plungers would seize up in a very short time.
I was involved in the running and maintenance of 1200 BHP diesel generators and we used to have to drain diesel/lub oil mix from the sump every week to keep the sump level below its max readings, I never saw a lub oil induced failure in any of these engines in 11 years and they were run at 80% to 85% of their maximum continuous rating (MCR) for weeks on end.

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=346781

John T Carroll

ba_barabus wrote: »

Sequence of events is correct and that red engine light is on with the low oil pressure warning message showing. I'm sitting in the car right now.

Did you or somebody actually check the oil level??. lube oil dilution in itself shouldn't cause excessively low oil pressure to the point of annunciating a alarm and dilution should result in a higher than normal dipstick reading except that the engine is burning oil so I don't see the mechanics logic in suggesting putting a litre of oil. I simply would not drive any car with a low oil pressure warning up.
Perhaps DPF/oil dilution has got nothing to do with this problem.

ba_barabus

Oil level has b3en checked and it's at the high warning Mark.

John T Carroll

ba_barabus wrote: »

Sequence of events is correct and that red engine light is on with the low oil pressure warning message showing. I'm sitting in the car right now.

And yes it was the main dealer where the car was bought that was called. My friend, close enough friend that I know they're not lying has gotten a telling off for what it's worth .

I agree an idiot but if they felt the advice of the main dealer mechanic was worth more than someone with just a strong interest in cars. In fairness though, for none motoring people they will take the advice if a so called expert.

ba_barabus wrote: »

Oil level has b3en checked and it's at the high warning Mark.

That's a reasonable indication of dilution then (except it was overfilled with oil initially, unlikely I would think) this can also be very bad for any engine obviously so the warning system logic might be programmed to give a low pressure warning alarm....simply drain off to the normal level and see if the alarm still annunciates...if it doesn't then that solves (explains) that side of it.

OldMrBrennan83

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