EU directive on Deacts starts today!!!

Grizzly 45

Just to let you know that today the new EU directive kicks in on deactivated firearms,EU wide.

BasicallyIf you currently have a Deact of any type of rifle ,shotgun , handgun deactivated to current standards ,you can hold onto it in its current state.

That being,mostly the barrell drilled a half dozen times with holes appx a quarter the diameter size of the caliber and plugged in one hole with a steel pin welded in place,the firing pin removed and firing pin channel plugged with a weld and the bolt/bolt carrier cut at a 40 degree angle and firing pin hole welded up .As well as the chamber plugged and welded shut.
But still able to strip,dry fire and drop the magazine.

Want to sell it or trade it, or buy one?You will have to get it deacted to what I can best describe as the "New spec" UK deact. IOW ,it will NOT be able to [1] drop a magazine[2],be able to cycle the action [3] be able to remove or strip out any component parts [4] in revolvers have any open chambers in the cylinder or be able to remove the cylinder. This will have to be done to an EU spec in a proof house and have the EU cert proably???? registered to your name and as to who you sold it to.So add another 200 quid onto this sale price to get it to EU deact spec.

Anyone got any sort of heavy machine gun a a deact.It will have to be completely welded up in entireity .IOW NO moving bits in the firing mechanism at all.So it is just a lump of metal.:mad:
Oddly it hasnt mentioned on how things like rocket launchers,grenades etc are to be deacted any further.
This will proably kill the deact collectors market EU wide and dump a few hundred jobs and companies in the unemployment bin as well.
Not to mind foster an illegal underground trade in the "old spec unregisterd deacts".

So there you have it folks .The EU is looking after us and preventing terrorists from killing us all in airports or rock gigs by making sure to be sure lots of high tech clubs that were formerly firearms are now even more clubbier and traceable all over the Union on our tax euros of course.. Meantime nail polish remover,battery acid and hair bleach is still freely available in large quantities to all and sundry who wish to do great harm to us.
Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy that Nanny EU knows whats best for us doesnt it??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

If you would care to hold onto the rest of your firearms,even possibly see the last flickering ember of reloading being snuffed out here in Ireland but EU wide[.Yes they want to make reloading illegal EU wide],and have to go to the Garda station to collect that buttstock recoil pad that you had to ring a dealer for in the UK and send him your liscense copy.As online sales of guns and parts becomes illegal and can only be collected from police stations[As is what happens in Spain today if you buy a replacement gun part!]

More restrictions and demands on what kind of safes you will need to seperately store your guns and ammo in. [Our glorified sheet steel boxes that we call safes here wont pass EU muster]and possibly not be treated like some dangerous nutter in your own country...

I might suggest lobbying your TDs and MEPS about stopping this EU madness in its tracks?Dont think your olRuger 10/22 is safe or your old Anschutz .22 rifle is exempt,the "Idont like the look of dat now "and "ban everything" mindset is very strong in the EU.

Rimfire Shooter

An EU Directive is not legislation

The way things are here this stuff will be a long time getting legislated for here

goz83

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

An EU Directive is not legislation

The way things are here this stuff will be a long time getting legislated for here

Yeah, but we tend to bend over and spread em wide when the EU wants to implement a screw you policy. The good stuff is what takes years, or never happens.

Rimfire Shooter

goz83 wrote: »

Yeah, but we tend to bend over and spread em wide when the EU wants to implement a screw you policy. The good stuff is what takes years, or never happens.

Yep or some fool here gives 'em an excuse to speed things up. So we should keep a very low profile now.

Sparks

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

An EU Directive is not legislation

EU directives on firearms are translated directly into Irish law, we don't get to ignore them (the EU drafts the fundamental law on firearms and it's never been an issue for us before because this is the first time their law is more strict than our national law).

hexosan

Is there a link to the directive ?

Bongalongherb

Ah, the joys of being dictated to, and who would have ever thought it would be from the Germans.

Their laws shouldn't apply to our own sovereign laws of this land.

The Germans can suck on this.

Rimfire Shooter

Sparks wrote: »

EU directives on firearms are translated directly into Irish law, we don't get to ignore them (the EU drafts the fundamental law on firearms and it's never been an issue for us before because this is the first time their law is more strict than our national law).

My statement is factually correct is it not?

Grizzly 45

goz83 wrote: »

Yeah, but we tend to bend over and spread em wide when the EU wants to implement a screw you policy. The good stuff is what takes years, or never happens.

Sorry wrong.They have already made this law and it was done 6years ago.They just never bothered implimenting it until the Charlie Hebdo attack and then boosted it with the Paris attack to now be seen as "doing somthing".

Grizzly 45

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

Yep or some fool here gives 'em an excuse to speed things up. So we should keep a very low profile now.

Wont make a blind bit of difference hiding under the bed.All of the EU shooters and their organisations are out fighting this.In fact if its doing one thing its actually unifying pro gun groups all across the EU.I suppose we'll drop in and claim our place once all the others have done the heavy lifting.As usual.:P

Grizzly 45

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Ah, the joys of being dictated to, and who would have ever thought it would be from the Germans.

Their laws shouldn't apply to our own sovereign laws of this land.

The Germans can suck on this.

Ahh NO .Actually its the Brits, French,Italians Belgians and Swedes who are pushing this in the EU.In fact the Germans are the ones doing the most along with the Poles and the Czechs and the East blockers to tell the EU to go pound sand on this. Not everything is "Deutschland uber alles" in the EU.

Grizzly 45

hexosan wrote: »

Is there a link to the directive ?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/514403/Commission_Implementing_Regulation_2015_2403.pdf

Couldnt find the EU one,but thers the UKversion.

goz83

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sorry wrong.They have already made this law and it was done 6years ago.They just never bothered implimenting it until the Charlie Hebdo attack and then boosted it with the Paris attack to now be seen as "doing somthing".

Were you meant to quote my post? I was quite rightly pointing out that we are the choir boys of Europe and take it hard without so much as a whimper when they want to implement directives and laws which leave us raw.

Grizzly 45

Ah ok was a bit confusing what you meant there☺

meathstevie

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

An EU Directive is not legislation

The way things are here this stuff will be a long time getting legislated for here

They are enacted into Irish legislation and since the source of their legitimacy comes from an international treaty Ireland has signed up to they "overrule" Irish law.

Sparks

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

My statement is factually correct is it not?

Nope. For the same reason that the theory of gravity isn't just someone's random idea.

Sparks

goz83 wrote: »

Were you meant to quote my post? I was quite rightly pointing out that we are the choir boys of Europe and take it hard without so much as a whimper when they want to implement directives and laws which leave us raw.

Honestly, if we'd just taken the EU directives on their own up to now, we would have firearms laws in this country that you wouldn't recognise, they'd be so liberal.
When I say this is the first time an EU directive has gone further than Irish firearms legislation, I'm not being hyperbolic. Our laws are far more strict than pretty much anything the EU's even mentioned up to this point.

goz83

Sparks wrote: »

Honestly, if we'd just taken the EU directives on their own up to now, we would have firearms laws in this country that you wouldn't recognise, they'd be so liberal.
When I say this is the first time an EU directive has gone further than Irish firearms legislation, I'm not being hyperbolic. Our laws are far more strict than pretty much anything the EU's even mentioned up to this point.

Would not disagree. We just get the worst of both.

meathstevie

goz83 wrote: »

Would not disagree. We just get the worst of both.

That's it, the way it works is that the EU directives set minimum standards. Member states can set stricter standards if EU treaties and directives allow it.

A lovely example would be fireworks; the EU has more than likely crapped out a golden pages worth of regulations and standards dealing with safety standards and quality standards of bangers that can be sold and imported into the EU. As far as the EU is concerned bangers compliant with these standards are fine.

Irish legislation says that you can't have any bangers unless you have a licence. Since the EU only deals with the nature of the bangers and not local explosives legislation you're looking at having to comply with both sets of legislation when you're in Ireland.

Rimfire Shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Nope. For the same reason that the theory of gravity isn't just someone's random idea.

So what you're saying is it doesn't have to be enacted here in actual legislation introduced & passed by the Dail here before it's "effective" here? I believe it has to be but I may be wrong

Grizzly 45

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

So what you're saying is it doesn't have to be enacted here in actual legislation introduced & passed by the Dail here before it's "effective" here? I believe it has to be but I may be wrong

Was the introduction of the NCT debated here in the Dail?If it was and was passed as an actual act.Then you are right.If not ....Its just an accepted and complied with EU diktat.

Sparks

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

So what you're saying is it doesn't have to be enacted here in actual legislation introduced & passed by the Dail here before it's "effective" here? I believe it has to be but I may be wrong

What I'm saying is that we signed an international treaty stating that we ceded autonomy in this area of law to the EU. They issue a directive, we implement it without making any alteration save those they permit. Our national law overlays that EU directive, it does not override it. The Dail can dislike it all they wish, but they can't alter it and they can't ignore it (not legally at any rate). And with firearms legislation (I don't know how all of the other EU directives have been done) we don't give the Oireachtas the opportunity to debate it anyway - it's done by SI and is immediately effective on that SI being signed.

Playing semantic games with EU stuff is a pretty fulltime game - it's a lot easier not to try the freeman-on-the-land line with them and actually get on with it. The time to prevent this stuff is before it gets passed into law.

Rimfire Shooter

Short answer....................I'm right

Sparks

Short answer is you're wrong. The EU directive has primacy in law here from when they sign it. They might call it a directive, and you might read that as "well, you might want to do this maybe if you feel like it", but that's not how it is in real life.
Short answer - if it's in an EU directive, it's the law. Even the Dail can't legally override it (not without us leaving the EU anyway).

Rimfire Shooter

I initially stated that an EU Directive is not legislation here. My point is that an EU Directive has to be incorporated into our legislation before it actually becomes law here. Otherwise why have the Dail, Seanad & President introduce & sign off on legislation?

I'm not saying we're not bound by it just that before we are it has to be incorporated into our actual legislation which it will be sooner or later as some have sold our souls to the EU

Sparks

What I'm trying to explain is that your point is in error. The president and the oireachtas do not sign off on EU directives. They do not legally have that option; they voted on this quite some time ago when we signed up for the EU (which, don't forget, we all voted for as well because unlike some members states, we had to have referendums to ratify those treaties). For firearms law, and some other areas, we traded our sovereignty some time ago for membership of the EU and the benefits it brings.

There is a timetable on those directives, to give the government here a chance to draft SIs and do the paperwork and so forth; but even that timetable is set by the EU, not us. If, hypothetically say, we found ourselves here without a government for long enough to miss the EU deadline on a directive, and you then violated that directive here? That'd be illegal. Mind you, you'd earn several top barristers new cars in the process of the court case as they thrashed out who's charged with what and whether or not the ECHJ case against Ireland for missing the deadline affected the case and if so why, and, well, you know how you shouldn't go to the high court if you're too attached to your house? That. But add a few zeros.

Also, if you violated it in during that timetable, you'd think you'd be safe and couldn't be charged -- but you'd be forgetting that the 2009 Act retroactively disallowed firearms licence applications and that precedent went unchallenged (not that we could have challenged it, our resources having been... spent elsewhere), so honestly, I wouldn't feel terribly safe. As far as the EU would be concerned, you'd have broken the law; if you did it sufficiently to get noticed by someone who cared, I don't think you'd have much in the way of protection from our government, whomever that might be.

gunny123

It all sounds like a good reason to set up the Irish version of UKIP !

Sparks

I thought the Healy-Raes tried that, but didn't have the Old Etonian as a leader and couldn't hire in a german as the leader's wife/secretary and so had to give up on the idea and focus on the plan for Kerry to secede from the Republic?

gunny123

The peoples republic of Kerry ? Seems like a good idea. Ireland will always brown nose the EU, its a source of endless well paid jobs for washed up/unpopular/unelectable former TD's, who's idea of multi-tasking is being able to swig from a pint glass in one hand while scratching their crotch with the other !