Estate Agent Tricks

dbagman

Hi.Im currently in the process of buying my first home. Iv had offers on 3 properties at this stage but am having my doubts about the conduct of the estate agents involved. In each of the properties I was informed of an offer on the table as soon as I entered for viewing. Each time the offer was 8-10 grand under asking. This despite one of the properties literally being up for sale a matter of days and I was at the first open viewing of the house.In each of the 3 properties I can see a definite pattern to how Estate agents operate which is leading me to believe this is common tactics in their trade.Step by step in all 3 circumstances its gone like this

1) Informed of offers 8-10 grand below asking and 2 seperate parties bidding
at initial viewing
2) I offered 5 grand below asking
3) EA gets back to me saying the current offer is now 1-2k above asking
4) I offer 5k above asking
5) Offers go 10-12k above asking

Its followed this exact pattern on all 3 occasions leading me to believe theres dirty tactics going on.On the 3rd property I bid on it has been on the market a month.I attend an open viewing and only 1 other couple show up while im there. initial offer im told is 250.9 grand below asking.but theres been a subsequent bid of 252. Thats the only movement in nearly a month.I offer 254 the day after my viewing. Suddenly EA gets back to me saying its now up to 260 despite there only being one other couple viewing the evening before. Am I just being paranoid or is this common practice in a bid to bump the price up by the EA? Anyone else any similar experiences or advice they can offer?

Atlantic Dawn

Tell them your current 254 bid stands until the end of the week and that's it, then walk away if they mention other bids.

davo10

dbagman wrote: »

Hi.Im currently in the process of buying my first home. Iv had offers on 3 properties at this stage but am having my doubts about the conduct of the estate agents involved. In each of the properties I was informed of an offer on the table as soon as I entered for viewing. Each time the offer was 8-10 grand under asking. This despite one of the properties literally being up for sale a matter of days and I was at the first open viewing of the house.In each of the 3 properties I can see a definite pattern to how Estate agents operate which is leading me to believe this is common tactics in their trade.Step by step in all 3 circumstances its gone like this

1) Informed of offers 8-10 grand below asking and 2 seperate parties bidding
at initial viewing
2) I offered 5 grand below asking
3) EA gets back to me saying the current offer is now 1-2k above asking
4) I offer 5k above asking
5) Offers go 10-12k above asking

Its followed this exact pattern on all 3 occasions leading me to believe theres dirty tactics going on.On the 3rd property I bid on it has been on the market a month.I attend an open viewing and only 1 other couple show up while im there. initial offer im told is 250.9 grand below asking.but theres been a subsequent bid of 252. Thats the only movement in nearly a month.I offer 254 the day after my viewing. Suddenly EA gets back to me saying its now up to 260 despite there only being one other couple viewing the evening before. Am I just being paranoid or is this common practice in a bid to bump the price up by the EA? Anyone else any similar experiences or advice they can offer?

So, viewers are placing bids on properties which are slightly below asking, then upping bids at a time when there is a shortage in housing supply?
Op, what are expecting to happen? You only need one other bidder against you for the price to rise

Do not put a time limit on an offer, it will not only effect this offer but any future offers with the EAs. They will ignore you.

davo10

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Tell them your current 254 bid stands until the end of the week and that's it, then walk away if they mention other bids.

What terrible advice, are you saying that op should only bid on a property when there are no other bidders or where the owner has only a few days to accept a bid? In this day and age and in this market?

dbagman

davo10 wrote: »

So, viewers are placing bids on properties which are slightly below asking, then upping bids at a time when there is a shortage in housing supply?
Op, what are expecting to happen? You only need one other bidder against you for the price to rise

Do not put a time limit on an offer, it will not only effect this offer but any future offers with the EAs. They will ignore you.

do you not think its a bit sussed that on 3 seperate occasions the exact same pattern has occurred. there was 1 other viewing on thursday. suddenly after a month on the market it jumps up over asking? the property is in need of refurbishment aswell. one similar in same estate went for just under asking a mere 3 weeks ago (12 grand less than this one has suddenly jumped up to) and it was in much better condition. It just stinks of games being played on the behalf of the EA's.

davo10

dbagman wrote: »

do you not think its a bit sussed that on 3 seperate occasions the exact same pattern has occurred. there was 1 other viewing on thursday. suddenly after a month on the market it jumps up over asking? the property is in need of refurbishment aswell. one similar in same estate went for just under asking a mere 3 weeks ago (12 grand less than this one has suddenly jumped up to) and it was in much better condition. It just stinks of games being played on the behalf of the EA's.

That is the way nearly all properties are selling now. There is a shortage so buyers want to grab the opportunity while they can. I would be suspicious if the bids were going up massively but bids which start 10-20k under asking is the norm. Op, if you want it, why wouldn't somebody else? And if you bid, why wouldn't someone else also bid?. Right now there are more buyers than properties.

If you are going to get bent out of shape by the process of buying a home, prepare for hard times ahead. EAs are there to achieve the highest price for the vendor, not the lowest price for the buyer, you will appreciate that when you sell your house.

dbagman

davo10 wrote: »

That is the way nearly all properties are selling now. There is a shortage so buyers want to grab the opportunity while they can. I would be suspicious if the bids were going up massively but bids which start 10-20k under asking is the norm. Op, if you want it, why wouldn't somebody else? And if you bid, why wouldn't someone else also bid?. Right now there are more buyers than properties.

i know where you're coming from but im just very wary on the lastest property as like i said its following the exact same patterns and has been on the market for weeks now and nothing. suddenly i enter and bang it jumps to over asking. theres other properties on the market for a similar price in better condition in same area going for less. the 2nd property i bid on kept creeping up so i bailed and as of now my last correspondence was over a week ago when EA told me there was only 1 other bid in and if i didnt go higher they were accepting. it has yet to go sale agreed. What im really wondering is if theres anything to prevent phantom bids from the EA to bump up the price. Is there any protection for the buyer in these situations? Or can they just keep telling me rubbish about other bids that dont exist in the hope ill keep going up

davo10

dbagman wrote: »

i know where you're coming from but im just very wary on the lastest property as like i said its following the exact same patterns and has been on the market for weeks now and nothing. suddenly i enter and bang it jumps to over asking. theres other properties on the market for a similar price in better condition in same area going for less. the 2nd property i bid on kept creeping up so i bailed and as of now my last correspondence was over a week ago when EA told me there was only 1 other bid in and if i didnt go higher they were accepting. it has yet to go sale agreed. What im really wondering is if theres anything to prevent phantom bids from the EA to bump up the price. Is there any protection for the buyer in these situations? Or can they just keep telling me rubbish about other bids that dont exist in the hope ill keep going up

Bidders always think there are "phantom" bidders and I suppose sometimes there are, but it's more likely that there are real bidders.

Have you any proof that there are no other bidders?

Why didn't you buy one of the other houses which went for less and were in better condition?

dbagman

davo10 wrote: »

Bidders always think there are "phantom" bidders and I suppose sometimes there are, but it's more likely that there are real bidders.

Have you any proof that there are no other bidders?

Why didn't you buy one of the other houses which went for less and were in better condition?

like i said,iv bids on 3 different properties. So I have bid on the ones in better condition

davo10

dbagman wrote: »

like i said,iv bids on 3 different properties. So I have bid on the ones in better condition

So it stands to reason that other bidders who were unsuccessful in the others may also be bidding with you on this one.

Have you any kind of proof that there are phantom bidders?

P. Breathnach

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Tell them your current 254 bid stands until the end of the week and that's it, then walk away if they mention other bids.

I don't like that as a tactic. By bidding a certain amount, you have already signalled what the property is worth to you, and it's very unlikely that you will be able to buy it for less.

I'd simply go quiet. The EA knows what you are prepared to pay. If that's the highest genuine offer, the EA will come looking for you. Then, if you enjoy playing hardball, you can um and ah, and say "Well, I have been having second thoughts; that's why I wasn't contacting you".

Or you can agree a deal at your price.

dbagman

dbagman wrote: »

do you not think its a bit sussed that on 3 seperate occasions the exact same pattern has occurred. there was 1 other viewing on thursday. suddenly after a month on the market it jumps up over asking? the property is in need of refurbishment aswell. one similar in same estate went for just under asking a mere 3 weeks ago (12 grand less than this one has suddenly jumped up to) and it was in much better condition. It just stinks of games being played on the behalf of the EA's.

There is often a kind of 'phoney war' in bidding where everybody holds back to suss out whats happening and to see if the vendor is holding tight to his asking price. Parties are standing by with powder dry. It can just take one bid (yours) to light the powder and get these guys bidding. In such cases, when everybody realises that the end-game has approached, prices can rise very fast until the deal gets done.

blackeyedpeat

Maybe you need to rethink your strategy? Most of us "hope to get a property at the lowest possible price" and follow the same patterns. When selling our house, on the first day of viewing the opening bidders, went over the asking price before they left the property. This instantly killed off nearly all the "hopeful wait and see bidders" and subsequent viewings. Within 24hrs a small bid followed by another large increase, killing off the second bidder. Luckily a third bidder then arrived on the scene after ten days. The two then played it out in reasonable figures over the next 48 hrs. I know this is not the norm but I think the original bidders knew what the wanted and at what the likely end price would be. By not following the normal bidding cycle they took out virtually all the tyre kickers and were able then to ensure that the sale didn't drag out. In the end the house sold pretty much for what we had expected/discussed with our estate agent. It's not the normal bidding pattern, some would say brave/some stupid. Reflecting on it, a bid is not legally binding but by bidding at the top end of your budget you could scare off most of the opposition and make sure the EA takes you seriously.

kirving

Here's another trick, spot the difference between the estate agent picture on the left, and Google Maps on the right.

I've zero issue with them boosting the colours to make everything stand out, but blatantly removing the overhead power lines is a step too far.

athtrasna

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Here's another trick, spot the difference between the estate agent picture on the left, and Google Maps on the right.

I've zero issue with them boosting the colours to make everything stand out, but blatantly removing the overhead power lines is a step too far.

Pictures are taken from different angles, that's all???

Balmed Out

Have bid on many properties and since the property register has been around every time I've been outbid it's been shown to be correct

Lemming

athtrasna wrote: »

Pictures are taken from different angles, that's all???

No, they've attempted to doctor the image. You can see the EA photo has a very thin trace of powerline that magically seems to vanish into the clouds .....

mountai

My attitude on E/As is that they have absolutely no moral standards and to call their job a "Profession" is one huge joke. My rule when buying is , decide what the property is worth to YOU , make that offer and walk away if you are messed around. When selling , decide what you WANT and the first offer you get accept it. Do not become involved in their games , Gazumping etc , because karma is just around the corner. The sooner that the law is changed to the French system the better IMHO.

VincePP

Lemming wrote: »

No, they've attempted to doctor the image. You can see the EA photo has a very thin trace of powerline that magically seems to vanish into the clouds .....

Different angles and many years apart unless the hedging on the right tripled overnight, new windows, neighbour next door doing changes.

But sure why let facts get in the way of a story? Do you write for the indo?

Also pic with lines seem to have 2 sets, one set suddenly end in mid air before the other set starts a couple of feet under.

You must try harder.

elastico

Lemming wrote: »

No, they've attempted to doctor the image. You can see the EA photo has a very thin trace of powerline that magically seems to vanish into the clouds .....

camera is closer to the house......no tricks

VincePP

Since the new rules came into play, EA must get details of all bidders and all bids must be in a verifiable form. A text or email would suffice.

If you have an issue there's a complaints procedure you can avail of.

I sold a property last year and EA even insisted on text or email instructions from me on any bid - there was someone who bid low and every time someone else bid, he put a new bid within hours.

At the end of the day i went with the person he was bidding against as I did not like his tactics - probably could have got an extra 3k, but preferred the option of a very clean sale to someone who had respect.

Remember its the property seller that has the ultimate decision - have everything ready to go and let the agent know you can complete easily and quickly.

April 73

Whenever a house goes on the market there are x number of potential buyers looking to buy in that area at that time. Most will view the house. Most hang back & don't put the opening bid on, but once the initial bid is made ten the race is on & the EA does his best to get the highest bid from the pool of available buyers & usually tries to bring it to a conclusion as soon as they can. It's as simple as that.

When we were looking 18months ago one house in a terrible state had been on the market for about 8 weeks with no bids. The market was hot at the time so the condition was putting people off. We offered the asking price and almost immediate the bids rolled in. At the time I was convinced there were phantom bids but the house ending up selling for €45,000 over asking so the bids were real.

You can tie yourself in knots - wondering about the EA's intentions, the buyers intentions, what other bidders are doing. It'll drive you mad. Pick the house that you really want & go after it aggressively up to your max budget if necessary.

wil

VincePP wrote: »

Different angles and many years apart unless the hedging on the right tripled overnight, new windows, neighbour next door doing changes.

But sure why let facts get in the way of a story? Do you write for the indo?

Also pic with lines seem to have 2 sets, one set suddenly end in mid air before the other set starts a couple of feet under.

You must try harder.

Seriously, some people are so easily convinced. Power lines are higher than clouds now, and disappear against light backgrounds. Not bleached out at all:rolleyes:
I suppose not everyone is familiar with how streetview works, artifacts and stitching don't confuse some.
Hedge tripled? - look where the camera is. Perspective can be such a chore.

elastico wrote: »

camera is closer to the house......no tricks

Conveniently cropping out that nuisance pole.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good editor.

I've seen way too many EA glamour shots that barely matched what I saw in reality.

Lemming

VincePP wrote: »

Different angles and many years apart unless the hedging on the right tripled overnight, new windows, neighbour next door doing changes.

But sure why let facts get in the way of a story? Do you write for the indo?

What? Wind your neck in.

If you look at the cloud directly above the house in the left-hand photo, you'll see what looks like a powerline that magically disapears in and out of the cloud and of course ... the blue sky to the left of the cloud ... There are power lines visible in both photos; just that one of them has had a deliberate albeit amateur attempt to airbrush the power lines out. Nothing to do with angles.

Also pic with lines seem to have 2 sets, one set suddenly end in mid air before the other set starts a couple of feet under.

You must try harder.

Eh ... you might want to follow your own advice. The picture on the right is the algamation of two photos to provide a wider shot; as the break in powerlines actually follows the entire length of the photo. Unless of course you want to also suggest that perfectly straight lines are naturally occuring in nature because there's a tree in the background with a perfect vertical line running across one side of its branches, the corner side of the lower roof has been chopped off and the pillar support isn't vertically straight, or that the front-garden wall has a step in it ...

TL;DR

• Left photo: deliberate attempt to airbrush out power lines by EA
• Right photo: two photos chopped together for wider view.

Michael D Not Higgins

This is a mod reminder to post civilly. I don't want to give out cards in my first week as mod.

slowjoe17

dbagman wrote: »

like i said,iv bids on 3 different properties. So I have bid on the ones in better condition

It's entirely possible that the estate agent is behaving correctly.

Bear in mind that other bidders will respond to your bids.

Is it always the same estate agent?

Santy2015

I was dealing with an agent who basically laughed at a bid we were putting on a house last week, I said grand I'll get back to you, another agent was selling similar houses in the same estate and he was more then happy to give our offer to the developer and low and behold it was accepted and giving booking deposit Tuesday.

Nekarsulm

OP, you are currently bidding on three properties.
You are going to be that Phantom Bidder on at least two of them.
If you were to end up highest bidder on all three and get told your offer is accepted, you are going to have to withdraw your offer on two of them.
Then the EA will have to tell two sets of under bidder that the highest bidder has vanished, and can they give a bit more. Each of those underbidders will be convinced that YOU never existed...
Now they can complain about the dirty tricks being played on them...

wil

Nekarsulm wrote: »

OP, you are currently bidding on three properties.
You are going to be that Phantom Bidder on at least two of them.
If you were to end up highest bidder on all three and get told your offer is accepted, you are going to have to withdraw your offer on two of them.
Then the EA will have to tell two sets of under bidder that the highest bidder has vanished, and can they give a bit more. Each of those underbidders will be convinced that YOU never existed...
Now they can complain about the dirty tricks being played on them...

In a fair and normal market there should be a system in place to rule out the possibility of dirty tricks so that all bids are genuine, confirmed and able.

And say he was the highest bidder on all three, either he has the money for all three or he is recklessly pushing the price up for everyone else on something he is actually not likely to purchase, ie 1 in 3 chance if he just looking for a single home. Overbidding on multiple properties you do not intend to purchase should attract some penalty. Two chances, I know:rolleyes:

Nekarsulm

On the subject of the photos, in the Streetview one, the shrubs along the left hand garden well are quite small. In the EA photo, they are at least one year older, possibly two.
No one is going to buy off the photo, they will see poles and power lines when they visit the house.
It's an advert, that's all. The aim is to get people to come view the house.
If you walk into McDonald's, the illuminated pictures of the €1.50 burgers look very different to the poor flat thing you recieve......

idnkph

Ah is about time the Estate agents got some flack. They had their hand pushing up prices for our last bubble burst and all I heard was the banks this the government that blah blah blah.
This was/is common practice among them.
Buyer beware seems to have gone out the window again.