Racing Greyhounds should be exempt from microchipping laws???

muddypaws

The Irish Greyhound Owners and Breeders Federation had a meeting with DoA to claim that racing greyhounds should be exempt from the microchipping laws - until they finished racing. It is ok to microchip them after racing I assume because when dogs are dumped for being too slow, or too old to race, chips would make them easier to trace. At the moment ears are cut off, as that is where tattoo is, it would harder to dig a microchip out of a dog - although that also happens. Once the dog ends up in rescue, then sure, why not microchip them. This angers and saddens me so much, that they view the dogs in this way. Other people compete with dogs in various ways and don't feel the need to try and pretend they are different to all other breeds and so need different laws.

http://igobf.ie/wp/?p=570

meeting with Animal Health and Welfare Division

April 8, 2016 at 4:29 pmin Editorial

The Irish Greyhound Owners & Breeders Federation requested this meeting to discuss microchipping of greyhounds. Greyhounds are part of an Industry which makes a significant contribution to the Irish economy. Junior Minister Tom Hayes told the Joint Committee on Agriculture last October that Mr Jim Power Economist estimated that the Irish Greyhound Industry employs just over 10,300 people directly and indirectly making a tax contribution from that employment of €21million.
The IGOBF had previously sent in a Submission to the Department on the 8th March 2016 on the subject of microchipping greyhounds and requesting greyhounds be exempt from this regulation.
It was pointed out by the Federation as Greyhounds are athletes who can reach speeds of up to 35 – 40 miles per hour for short distances and have very thorough traceability through their DNA and Identity Cards showing all markings even down to the colour of toe nails, therefore there is no need for greyhounds to be included in the microchipping regulation until they are retired from racing. Greyhounds are and have been the only traceable breed therefore no need to be microchipped. They are different from pet breeds.
Correspondence from two of Ireland’s highly respected veterinary surgeons was given to the Dept Officials, this highlighted the trauma microchipping can cause young puppies and coupled with getting ear marked can leave a puppy very nervous and may set him back including going off their food for some time. Also migration of microchips in puppies with little or no body fat is more likely. Microchips have migrated down as far as the wrist which can compromise their racing performance. Young greyhound puppies can be hard to restrain and there have been reports of nerve damage and even paralysis when the animal struggle when being microchipped. In other cases, microchips have migrated close to the skull after being microchipped at a young age due to the long needle length used to insert the microchip.
The Federation presented X Ray evidence from a greyhound with classic potential whose performance had deteriorated significantly since being microchipped. When this greyhound was examined and then X Rayed by the Vet the microchip was found to be in a deep position close to the greyhound’s spine therefore causing distress and an early end to the greyhounds racing career. Second X Ray evidence was given from a greyhound sapling who had been microchipped three weeks previously, the X Ray showed the microchip had migrated to a position four inches down and between the 4th & 5th rib area.
In reply to this evidence the Department stated that microchips need to be put in correctly and an ISO type microchip is recommended as it is less likely to migrate. Also as there is a possibility of a microchip being faulty the microchip should be scanned before it is implanted. The Department felt that if these recommendations are adhered to the chips should not migrate. Therefore, as with pet breeds there should not be a problem with microchipping. The Minister for Agriculture can change the regulation for greyhounds but to do this the Federation need to come back to the Department with more evidence and instances of problems created by microchipping greyhounds.
The Federation had a meeting recently with the ICC to discuss concerns regarding microchipping and following on from this the ICC have asked their Control Stewards to go back and scan pups that had been microchipped previously. Resulting from this the information the Federation has to hand at this time is that 1 in 10 microchips in pups had moved. The Federation expressed concern with this as it is not good enough.
A strong case was made by the Federation to have greyhound pups exempt from microchipping until they are being named and marked for racing. It was pointed out that one of the main the factors leading to owners and breeders leaving the Industry is they are losing money. This added expense caused by microchipping is another disincentive for owners & breeders. The Department was surprised at this.
In conclusion it was agreed that the Department Officials and Federation meet again in the near future when the Federation can bring more evidence of problems with microchipping greyhounds.

Tranceypoo

Disgusting, they really are vile ***** I just saw on FB that 3 irish greyhounds had turned up somewhere in China and the igb are trying to open channels to make this a regular thing, despite the big petition and the fact that the 'government' ruled this out, it makes me angry and breaks my heart in equal measures

boomerang

"They are different from pet breeds."

Kinda sums up their attitude, doesn't it? They cannot accept that greyhounds are anything other than racing machines. Like one greyhound breeder told me in college. "They're only bred for one thing and if they can't do it, then it's bang-bang."

The racing industry isn't much more than a hundred years old. The breed's been around for thousands.

Tranceypoo

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Disgusting, they really are vile ***** I just saw on FB that 3 irish greyhounds had turned up somewhere in China and the igb are trying to open channels to make this a regular thing, despite the big petition and the fact that the 'government' ruled this out, it makes me angry and breaks my heart in equal measures

Yeah I saw that when it first happened. It seems they used to get their greyhounds from Australia but because of the brutal treatment they receive there and the unthinkably inhumane way they are killed when they can no longer race, several airlines refused to transport them there anymore. So now they want to source them from us. There is an online petition to Stop export of Irish greyhounds to China if anyone's interested in signing.

Inexile

From what I can see, and I speak for myself not a member of any group, the greyhound industry is slowly dying out. There are few young breeders or trainers. Those still in the business are getting on. The number of litters bred is about half what it was. More stadia in the UK and the US have closed. They are starting to close them here too.

As to Muddypaws original point I dont see why the greys should be exempt. I would like to see details in full where the chips have migrated and caused damage to the spine or leg. While dont doubt the fact that the chips move, is it really 1 in 10, and of those where it has how many caused real damage. I dont believe the chipping experience can make the pup more nervous and I, as most of you have done, seen the needles for the chips they aint massive. I would wonder if they are any longer than a regular needle.

If the greys get an exemption do hounds in registered packs and other working dogs.

Inexile

And what incentive is there to chip a dog that is finished racing especially if it being pts.

If they even advocated for an exemption where the dogs didnt need to be chipped till it was 12 months it would make some sense.

fits

I would imagine that they are argueing for this because the animals are already identifiable through ear tattoos.

Inexile

fits wrote: »

I would imagine that they are argueing for this because the animals are already identifiable through ear tattoos.

There is an additional cost with microchipping but its marginal.

Greys in the UK are chipped if they are raced so I think the UK experience may knock out a few arguments.

Its just a grumble against something new that costs money.

eezipc

I actually assumed that the Greyhounds was the main reason for the chipping laws.

Inexile

eezipc wrote: »

I actually assumed that the Greyhounds was the main reason for the chipping laws.

I dont believe it was. I believe it was more to help stamp out puppy farming. Also the rescue community wanted it to help return stray dogs, make people take more responsibillity etc, the greys were a part of it but not the main cause

DBB

Inexile wrote: »

I dont believe it was. I believe it was more to help stamp out puppy farming. Also the rescue community wanted it to help return stray dogs, make people take more responsibillity etc, the greys were a part of it but not the main cause

I don't know if I even believe it has anything to do with puppy farming, seeing as puppy farming is legal in Ireland. Also, the powers-that-be don't give a hoot about rescues or greyhounds. As far as I'm aware, the major lobby group behind this was the Irish Farmers' Association, in a bid to make owners more accountable for dogs that were caught attacking livestock.
That said, I'm sure a few different groups had their say, but the farming voice is very loud in Ireland compared to anyone else who might think microchipping is a good idea!

I see six more Irish greyhounds were sent to China. Feel sick over it.

There are two reasons why microchipping greyhounds should be exempt.
1 ALL greyhounds are earmarked, in BOTH ears. One mark identifies the control steward whose area the pups are in. The other is a unique 3 letters tattoo that identifies the specific pup. ALL Sires and Dams are DNA tested and all their offspring is readily traceable.
2 There is evidence that because greyhounds are so naturally thin, that the chips can move and cause serious pain. Cases are being investigated where the chips have lodged in the vertebrae.

I have had greyhounds as pets down the years and they are the best and most docile animal ever. Would highly recommend one as a pet, even where there are small children!

muddypaws

Deleted User wrote: »

There are two reasons why microchipping greyhounds should be exempt.
1 ALL greyhounds are earmarked, in BOTH ears. One mark identifies the control steward whose area the pups are in. The other is a unique 3 letters tattoo that identifies the specific pup. ALL Sires and Dams are DNA tested and all their offspring is readily traceable.
2 There is evidence that because greyhounds are so naturally thin, that the chips can move and cause serious pain. Cases are being investigated where the chips have lodged in the vertebrae.

I have had greyhounds as pets down the years and they are the best and most docile animal ever. Would highly recommend one as a pet, even where there are small children!

And what about working dogs that are also thin? Greyhounds are dogs, they are not a different species. Until they are treated the same under the law here as all dogs, they will continue to be abused. Ears are hacked off to hide the tattooes when dogs are dumped.

Do you have links to that evidence please?

Cherry Blossom

Gosh maryanne84, greyhounds and lurched most be the most frequently stolen breeds often I suspect then moved on so who knows where the end up. If I had one I would absolutely have it chipped, more important to have the chipped than most other breeds.

muddypaws

muddypaws wrote: »

And what about working dogs that are also thin? Greyhounds are dogs, they are not a different species. Until they are treated the same under the law here as all dogs, they will continue to be abused. Ears are hacked off to hide the tattooes when dogs are dumped.

Do you have links to that evidence please?

How often has that happened? In such cases, the dogs can be traced back to their last owner through their DNA.

The vast majority of greyhounds are treated very well. Like everything, there are a few exceptions, that people will pounce on!

No, I have no links, as it is still in the investigation stage.

adrenalinjunkie

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Gosh maryanne84, greyhounds and lurched most be the most frequently stolen breeds often I suspect then moved on so who knows where the end up. If I had one I would absolutely have it chipped, more important to have the chipped than most other breeds.

I very much doubt they are the most stolen dogs! They are too big for one! I doubt chipping will stop any dog from being stolen!

screamer

Ive worked with greyhound rescue centres and its horrific to see greyhounds once they are no longer wanted the owners had cut their ears off to stop them being identified and then dumped the dogs. If microchipping prevents that sort of abuse I'm all for it. If microchipping means the dogs will suffer even more to have the chip extracted before being dumped then that's not good. Some people are worse than animals its them.should be microchipped.

screamer

screamer wrote: »

Ive worked with greyhound rescue centres and its horrific to see greyhounds once they are no longer wanted the owners had cut their ears off to stop them being identified and then dumped the dogs. If microchipping prevents that sort of abuse I'm all for it. If microchipping means the dogs will suffer even more to have the chip extracted before being dumped then that's not good. Some people are worse than animals its them.should be microchipped.

How many greyhounds have you seen with their ear cut off??? To the best of my knowledge there have been 2 in the last 10 years.. By all means support microchipping, but do not use this as a weapon to tar all greyhound owners with.

DBB

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How many greyhounds have you seen with their ear cut off??? To the best of my knowledge there have been 2 in the last 10 years.. By all means support microchipping, but do not use this as a weapon to tar all greyhound owners with.

I think your figures are a long, long way out there... My OH found 4 of them dumped in a bog last year (which was successfully prosecuted), and all of my contacts involved in greyhound rescue have taken in (if alive) or reported (if dead) multiple greyhounds with ears cut off.

DBB

DBB wrote: »

I think your figures are a long, long way out there... My OH found 4 of them dumped in a bog last year (which was successfully prosecuted), and all of my contacts involved in greyhound rescue have taken in (if alive) or reported (if dead) multiple greyhounds with ears cut off.

I bow to your superior knowledge. Have you a link to the above cases? I find it strange that there was nothing reported in the media about these.

DBB

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I bow to your superior knowledge. Have you a link to the above cases? I find it strange that there was nothing reported in the media about these.

I don't have superior knowledge... I hope you're not taking a tone with me here, or am I reading this wrong?

muddypaws

Deleted User wrote: »

How often has that happened? In such cases, the dogs can be traced back to their last owner through their DNA.

The vast majority of greyhounds are treated very well. Like everything, there are a few exceptions, that people will pounce on!

No, I have no links, as it is still in the investigation stage.

Deleted User wrote: »

How many greyhounds have you seen with their ear cut off??? To the best of my knowledge there have been 2 in the last 10 years.. By all means support microchipping, but do not use this as a weapon to tar all greyhound owners with.

Sorry, but you seem to have a large chip ( :P ) on your shoulder about the perception of greyhound owners. I actually have no problem with people that race greyhounds if they treat the dogs properly, and treat them with love and humanity, and not just as a machine to make them money.

But my point still stands, they are dogs, just like every other dog, and it is the constant insistence by some people involved in the racing industry that they should have different laws that brings about the suspicion and dislike of the sport by dog lovers. I, and some of my friends, regularly travel abroad to race our dogs, they are not greyhounds, and we are bound by, and stick to, animal welfare laws and regulations. Why should one breed of dog be different to the rest?

SillyMangoX

Deleted User wrote: »

I bow to your superior knowledge. Have you a link to the above cases? I find it strange that there was nothing reported in the media about these.

If every welfare case appeared in the media, there would be no room for anything else.

DBB

DBB wrote: »

I don't have superior knowledge... I hope you're not taking a tone with me here, or am I reading this wrong?

My knowledge of greyhounds is limited to my old girl on the rug in front of me. However, I have friends who race theirs and find it strange that neither they nor I have heard of more than 2 cases of greyhounds with ears cut off in the past 10 years, (I just rang them to ask). Trying to remove earmarks is an exercise in futility with a DNA data base in place, where they can be traced and last owner identified.

SillyMangoX

SillyMangoX wrote: »

If every welfare case appeared in the media, there would be no room for anything else.

If there were so many cases, why are they not being reported?

muddypaws

A quick google, and the first result shows 5 instances reported to Bord na GCon of ear identification being removed - http://www.thejournal.ie/greyhounds-disappear-1905356-Feb2015/

That link also lays out how many pups were born, and how many were registered for racing, a huge difference between the two numbers. What happened to all of those puppies?

DBB

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My knowledge of greyhounds is limited to my old girl on the rug in front of me. However, I have friends who race theirs and find it strange that neither they nor I have heard of more than 2 cases of greyhounds with ears cut off in the past 10 years, (I just rang them to ask). Trying to remove earmarks is an exercise in futility with a DNA data base in place, where they can be traced and last owner identified.

I still don't know whether you're taking a tone with me.
Nevertheless, I've dug out the info I have on those 4 dogs. I can't go into detail as it's a confidential email, but as a result of the find, 3 fixed penalty notices were issued from the Irish Coursing Club (these men were not involved in the killing or disposal of the dogs, but were fined for transgressions relating to not keeping ownership details up to date), whilst another man was prosecuted via the courts. I have his name, and Googled it in relation to the case, but after a quick search have to conclude that the case did not make it to the newspapers. For what it's worth, given that I spend a fair amount of time in the courts, it is very surprising what doesn't end up in the newspapers. But that clearly doesn't mean there isn't a problem! Did your friends know about these goings-on in their clubs? No? They wouldn't... Because everything is kept hush-hush, including the *highly confidential* email I have in my inbox written by an officer of one of the greyhound governing bodies.
Unlike many, I want to believe that the ICC and IGB are trying to get rid of wrongdoing amongst their members, but again and again the evidence that I'm aware of behind-the-scenes keeps telling me I'm mistaken to try to have faith in them. The impression I VERY firmly get is that the ICC and IGB may slap wrists from time to time when embarrassed into it (as they were in the case my OH stumbled across), but they are adept at and keen to keep their members out of the media spotlight when things go wrong. They also seem adept at turning a blind eye.
Perhaps this is why you're not aware of the extent of the problem. Those involved at the sh!tty end of the stick in rescue who end up with all the unwanted has-beens will tell you and your friends very different from what you appear to believe.

boomerang

Three things, Maryanne:

One: My greyhound was chipped four years ago without any problems and it's still readable.
Two: Her ear tattoos are faded and indistinct.
Three: If she is stolen or lost I want her back asap. I am not waiting for Bord na gGon.

boomerang

A quick google search found the following:

Ears hacked off, Newtownabbey: http://grai.ie/2013/06/30/greyhound-found-with-ears-hacked-off/

Ears hacked off, Lancashire: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-35441386

Ears hacked off, Derry: http://www.highlandradio.com/2015/06/26/animal-charity-horrified-after-greyhound-found-dead-in-river-foyle-with-ears-cut-off/

Ears cut off, Bristol: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Greyhound-dumped-Bristol-ears-cut/story-11295485-detail/story.html

Ears burned, Clonmel http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/6841807/Horror-greyhound-abuse-They-burned-Emilys-ears-hacked-off-tail-left-her-in-ditch.html

Ears cut off, Waterford: http://www.animalcrimesregister.org/dogs-greyhounds

My local rescue currently has a greyhound who's ears were burned off with acid. And another rescue had the same not too long ago.

My mothers whippet/greyhound x has a microchip and she is so (naturally) thin you can feel it through her coat. I could find it with my eyes closed. Hasn't moved at all. Not saying they wouldn't but I'd like to know how often that happens?

Inexile

Many greyhound bred here are exported to and raced in the UK. To travel they need to be passported, microchipped and vaccinated against rabies. So they have to be chipped for that purpose anyway. However I would be all for an exemption if it meant that all irish bred hounds never left the country. Would sort out the China problem! But the breeders want to sell dogs into the uk market. Can't have cake and eat it

http://igobf.ie/wp/?p=573

Some interesting stuff. Personally I hope the greyhound industry continues to decline especially after the news today re: the greyhounds boiled in China.

Quote from article :
The Irish greyhound industry has three basic challenges it needs to address if it is to have a future.
1) Greyhound Welfare, this is a growing issue but can be dealt with. Token gestures fool nobody.
2) Restoration of Integrity. A board that have shown scant regard for rules will find it difficult to convince anyone that they have changed their ways.
3) Finance; The IGB is devoid of ideas and has now become totally dependent on Government funding. The general public perception which will become more negative due to the failure to address welfare issues suggests this money may not always be available.

While I don't actually want it to have a future, it would be great to see the welfare issues acknowledged and addressed.

LaChatteGitane

Deleted User wrote: »

My local rescue currently has a greyhound who's ears were burned off with acid. And another rescue had the same not too long ago.

My mothers whippet/greyhound x has a microchip and she is so (naturally) thin you can feel it through her coat. I could find it with my eyes closed. Hasn't moved at all. Not saying they wouldn't but I'd like to know how often that happens?

It happens.
Our previous rescue grey had a micro chip when we adopted him.
When we had to get all papers in order for our move to another country there was no chip anywhere to be found and he had to be re-chipped.
Our vet said it was not uncommon with greyhounds.

muddypaws

Deleted User wrote: »

http://igobf.ie/wp/?p=573

Some interesting stuff. Personally I hope the greyhound industry continues to decline especially after the news today re: the greyhounds boiled in China.

Quote from article :
The Irish greyhound industry has three basic challenges it needs to address if it is to have a future.
1) Greyhound Welfare, this is a growing issue but can be dealt with. Token gestures fool nobody.
2) Restoration of Integrity. A board that have shown scant regard for rules will find it difficult to convince anyone that they have changed their ways.
3) Finance; The IGB is devoid of ideas and has now become totally dependent on Government funding. The general public perception which will become more negative due to the failure to address welfare issues suggests this money may not always be available.

While I don't actually want it to have a future, it would be great to see the welfare issues acknowledged and addressed.

I don't really have an issue with greyhound racing, if the dogs' welfare was always paramount. I think for that to happen, money has to be taken out of the equation. Although unfortunately even then, it doesn't always mean that people don't get super competitive and mistreat animals. The lengths that people will go to for a rosette, cup or bag of dog food are unreal.

There is cruelty and dogs treated as disposable in showing, agility, obedience, sledding etc. People are just scum sometimes. :mad: