Why don't we have speed cameras everywhere?

ohnonotgmail

gozunda wrote: »

Not so sure sure tbh

From an article on at the time when the online system was set up





http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/online-system-will-tax-cars-without-proof-of-insurance-26015949.html

and how has that worked out?

gozunda

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and how has that worked out?

What worked out?

ohnonotgmail

gozunda wrote: »

What worked out?

this wonderful information link you mentioned.

the dark phantom

What about the people who crawl on our roads and insist on taking off on green lights 5 seconds after the lights go green.

Del2005

gozunda wrote: »

Not so sure sure tbh

From an article on at the time when the online system was set up





http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/online-system-will-tax-cars-without-proof-of-insurance-26015949.html

The plan was good but like most technology in this country it was never implemented. They tried using the database for ANPR but since you can change policy after taxing with no way to update the database it failed. It'd be easier just to do the UK way and have the companies feed policy data to ANPR system.

gozunda

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

this wonderful information link you mentioned.

Information link? Can you be a bit more specific?

ohnonotgmail

gozunda wrote: »

Information link? Can you be a bit more specific?

a bit worrying when you have to quote a users own post back to them but anyway

The information is then forwarded to the Garda Pulse computer network and will link up with separate computer systems containing penalty points and the courts service. It will provide the first ever integrated information link.

gozunda

Del2005 wrote: »

The plan was good but like most technology in this country it was never implemented. They tried using the database for ANPR but since you can change policy after taxing with no way to update the database it failed. It'd be easier just to do the UK way and have the companies feed policy data to ANPR system.

Like this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/528171368421269504

gozunda

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a bit worrying when you have to quote a users own post back to them but anyway

I'm sorry but I've no idea what question you are asking or who part of the Quoted link text I posted you are referring to.

It helps if you can be a bit more specific.

ohnonotgmail

gozunda wrote: »

Like this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/528171368421269504

the ANPR did not detect that it had no insurance. they dont have that information. they only discover that after they pull it over for no tax.

ohnonotgmail

gozunda wrote: »

I'm sorry but I've no idea what question you are asking or who part of the Quoted link text I posted you are referring to.

It helps if you can be a bit more specific.

i'm not sure how i can be more specific than quoting the piece i referred to so i'll leave it there. good avoidance tactics though.

gozunda

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the ANPR did not detect that it had no insurance. they dont have that information. they only discover that after they pull it over for no tax.

This is the twitter text

Traffic ... got ANPR hit on this car - no insurance,tax or NCT since early '13.Car seized, court to follow

I have no idea of the inner workings of the ANPR system. I would suggest you contact the Garda Traffic branch on whether they do or don't.

gozunda

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i'm not sure how i can be more specific than quoting the piece i referred to so i'll leave it there. good avoidance tactics though.

Try asking a question that refers to something specific. Thanks.

ohnonotgmail

gozunda wrote: »

This is the twitter text

i'm aware what the twitter text said.

gozunda wrote: »

I have no idea of the inner workings of the ANPR system. I would suggest you contact the Garda Traffic branch on whether they do or don't.

the part in bold is very clear.
i'm aware of the information they have. and it does not include insurance information.

ohnonotgmail

gozunda wrote: »

Try asking a question that refers to something specific. Thanks.

:rolleyes:

ohnonotgmail

for the avoidance of doubt

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-forced-to-pull-technology-that-detects-uninsured-drivers-1.2198863

gozunda

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i'm aware what the twitter text said.



the part in bold is very clear.
i'm aware of the information they have. and it does not include insurance information.

I can only go on what was referred to in relation to the ANPR

GARDA Traffic ... got ANPR hit on this car - no insurance,tax or NCT since early '13.Car seized, court to follow

Maybe discuss it with Traffic branch?

ohnonotgmail

gozunda wrote: »

I can only go on what was referred to in relation to the ANPR



Maybe discuss it with Traffic branch?

nothing to discuss with them. you inferred it was the anpr that told them it wasnt insured. you inferred incorrectly.

gozunda

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nothing to discuss with them. you inferred it was the anpr that told them it wasnt insured. you inferred incorrectly.

I inferred nothing. I quoted what was stated in the tweet re ANPR.

Insurance is listed as having been detected in relation to APNR.

You are 'inferring' it wasn't. I would check with Traffic Branch to verify if they do or don't. I can't answer that for you tbh.

ohnonotgmail

gozunda wrote: »

I inferred nothing. I quoted what was stated in the tweet re ANPR.

Insurance is listed as having been detected in relation to APNR.

You are 'inferring' it wasn't. I would check with Traffic Branch to verify if they do or don't. I can't answer that for you tbh.

:rolleyes:

gozunda

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Emoticons don't change what was actually stated in that tweet either.

Jayop

The quote could just as easily have said something like this and made sense...

made up traffic tweet wrote:

GARDA Traffic ... got ANPR hit on this car - the driver was drunk, had no steering wheel and no Tax.Car seized, court to follow

The reference to the ANPR doesn't mean the whole thing was discovered by it.

job seeker

biko wrote: »

Probably a cost thing. I assume they prioritise the areas where the most people are and speeding is more likely to cause problems.

If I remember correctly. The rsa stated the camera vans were been placed where fatal car accidents have occurred were people were killed. But I only see them on national roads. Where no serious accident happened...

Jayop

job seeker wrote: »

If I remember correctly. The rsa stated the camera vans were been placed where fatal car accidents have occurred were people were killed. But I only see them on national roads. Where no serious accident happened...

That was supposed to be the case (or maybe serious accidents) but I'm not convinced by it at all. I'm 100% sure they're placed in places where accidents that have occurred were not caused by people breaking the set speed limits.

gozunda

Jayop wrote: »

The quote could just as easily have said something like this and made sense...
The reference to the ANPR doesn't mean the whole thing was discovered by it.

Yup could have but didn't. As for the imaginary tweet - the flaw there is that the state of being drunk etc is not something that can be detected by APNR.

The tweet states what it states. Anything else is simply being inferred.
The point is that the APNR system was set up to check complience with driver requirements. Whether it currently does some or all can only be answered by the AGS.

mikeecho

Speed cams aren't everywhere cos they cost money to run, money that isn't there.
And because they operate at a financial loss.

Now, if they scrapped the points system, and only had monetary fines, and admitted that it is a revenue exercise.

I'd be all in favour

ironclaw

mikeecho wrote: »

Speed cams aren't everywhere cos they cost money to run, money that isn't there.
And because they operate at a financial loss.

Suppose that's the point though, no one is questioning why they are running at a loss. But then again, zero incentive to be efficient either on GoSafes side (Given a generous tender) and the State side (The fine process is entirely a State body, so we all know what goes on there)

This tech is not expensive, its well established. You can run ANPR on a Raspberry Pi. It is not hard to scale this up to be robust and applicable to the real world. There is no reason why the entire country couldn't be littered with mobile and fixed systems for Tax, NCT, Insurance and Speed. There is just no incentive to do so from any side.

mikeecho

ironclaw wrote: »

Suppose that's the point though, no one is questioning why they are running at a loss. But then again, zero incentive to be efficient either on GoSafes side (Given a generous tender) and the State side (The fine process is entirely a State body, so we all know what goes on there)

This tech is not expensive, its well established. You can run ANPR on a Raspberry Pi. It is not hard to scale this up to be robust and applicable to the real world. There is no reason why the entire country couldn't be littered with mobile and fixed systems for Tax, NCT, Insurance and Speed. There is just no incentive to do so from any side.

Again, the cost after a ridiculous tender process

sdanseo

Speed limits in many places are shockingly inadequate, both above and below. Also, speed does not kill half as many people as stupidity does, and I'm genuinely of the belief that we should have variable speed limits everywhere because 100km/h on the busy M50 vs 100km/h at 4am are two wildly different things.

Alas, neither my suggestion nor the OP's are likely in the immediate future because outside of the motorway network we can't even maintain the roads we have, or even paint straight lines one them - let alone police them.

Sh1tbag OToole

No. Feck the surveillance society

Jesus.

Couldn't have put it better meself Sh!tbag

Canadel

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

No. Feck the surveillance society

But there already are speed cameras in operation.

The issue seems to be cost as others have said.

ED E

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

No. Feck the surveillance society

Not Shown:

Posted from Windows 10

Del2005

mikeecho wrote: »

Speed cams aren't everywhere cos they cost money to run, money that isn't there.
And because they operate at a financial loss.

The thing is that if they really where about safety then having them everywhere, or at least at black spots, and not catching a single vehicle speeding means that they are 100% affective. The current setup where they catch people means that they aren't doing what they are supposed to do and still cost a lot to operate.

Sh1tbag OToole

ED E wrote: »

Not Shown:

Posted from Windows 10

Xubuntu 15.10

cletus

Del2005 wrote: »

The thing is that if they really where about safety then having them everywhere, or at least at black spots, and not catching a single vehicle speeding means that they are 100% affective. The current setup where they catch people means that they aren't doing what they are supposed to do and still cost a lot to operate.

Dont agree with that. There are signs up to denote sped camera van locations, and a website that lists every location in the country.

People will stil just chance it, or be oblivious. How many times have people come on heqre to complain that they were caugt by a camera van

Indricotherium

What if people with more than say, eight penalty points for speeding, were issued with a gps tracer that they had to carry at all times when driving a vehicle?

Caught speeding again banned for 2 years

Caught driving without the monitor, banned for life

Jayop

Indricotherium wrote: »

What if people with more than say, eight penalty points for speeding, were issued with a gps tracer that they had to carry at all times when driving a vehicle?

Caught speeding again banned for 2 years

Caught driving without the monitor, banned for life

Because it's not North Korea we live in.

We don't even fit trackers to rapists so I doubt they'll be fitted to otherwise law abiding drivers any time soon.

Indricotherium

Jayop wrote: »

Because it's not North Korea we live in.

We don't even fit trackers to rapists so I doubt they'll be fitted to otherwise law abiding drivers any time soon.

but the speed rapist travel at isn't really important?

Del2005

cletus wrote: »

Dont agree with that. There are signs up to denote sped camera van locations, and a website that lists every location in the country.

People will stil just chance it, or be oblivious. How many times have people come on heqre to complain that they were caugt by a camera van

The speed vans aren't in accident black spots. They are supposed to be where fatalities occurred, but even with that they aren't located where people died and since the cause of death is never published how do we know exceeding the speed limit was a factor.

Jesus.

Indricotherium wrote: »

What if people with more than say, eight penalty points for speeding, were issued with a gps tracer that they had to carry at all times when driving a vehicle? Caught speeding again banned for 2 yearsCaught driving without the monitor, banned for life

Why? What's the obsession with penalising motorists more than they are already?

Hercule

speed vans are a revenue generation exercise masquerading as a road safety initiative

Indricotherium

Hercule wrote: »

speed vans are a revenue generation exercise masquerading as a road safety initiative

But if you drive under the limit they don't generate revenue?????

pa990

Hercule wrote: »

speed vans are a revenue generation exercise masquerading as a road safety initiative

they are not generating revenue.

they bring in a fraction of what they cost to operate

Jayop

Indricotherium wrote: »

but the speed rapist travel at isn't really important?

I honestly hope you're not serious. If so then way to miss the point.


Anyway. I'm not a fan of these vans as has been evidenced by my posting on here however while trying to find a counter argument to them I found something that's not been posted here before (that I noticed).

They were introduced in 2010 (Nov) and in every year since then we've has under 200 road deaths. That's the only 5 years since records began in 1959 that the number has dropped below 200.

Now I will add that I understand correlation doesn't equal causation and the numbers had been falling steadily since 2005 but it's a significant fact.


I hate the vans, I hate where they're placed and I do think a lot of time they're shooting fish in a barrel, but there's a good chance that them being there has caused a lot of people to think about their driving style and adjust.

Personally I'd rather see cops doing this job but that's not going to change now.

Jayop

pa990 wrote: »

they are not generating revenue.

they bring in a fraction of what they cost to operate

Any source on that?

pa990

Jayop wrote: »

Any source on that?

http://www.thejournal.ie/penalty-points-1526372-Jun2014/

wrote:

GoSafe

An Garda Síochána’s speed camera operations were outsourced to GoSafe in November 2010 and became fully operational in March 2011.

The cost of operating the GoSafe system was €0.2 million including VAT in 2010, €15.8 million in 2011 and €15.6 million in 2012. The estimated cost for 2013 is €16.6 million.

Receipts collected in 2012 from fixed charge notices issued on foot of detections by the GoSafe safety cameras amounted to €4.6 million.

As a result, there was a shortfall of €11 million relative to the cost of the service. An Garda Síochána made up for this through money made from penalty points issued in other ways such as Garda camera vans.

and

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/17m-for-speed-camera-firm-in-2014-314222.html

wrote:

According to figures provided by the Minister for Justice, Frances Fitzgerald, GoSafe’s Fixed Charge Penalties from speeding fine detections have generated €18.9m in income between November 2010 to the end of June 2014.

Thats €18.9m over 4 years, and the yearly contract is circa €17m

Melodeon

Indricotherium wrote: »

but the speed rapist travel at isn't really important?

You can say whatever else you like about paedophiles, but at least they slow down outside schools and playgrounds!

joujoujou

Jayop wrote: »

Any source on that?

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/speed-cameras-not-selffinancing-30422285.html

ironclaw

@pa990, you really have to ask yourself what they are spending the money on. There are fully fledged businesses with less people and more overheads doing more with less than that. Insanity.