College Green Plaza -- public consultation open

AndrewJRenko

Looks like DLR are going to do some research on the problems with delivery trucks

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6390511490000134144

devnull

strandroad wrote: »

Right, that'll teach him.

They should be simply handing out penalties and punishment rather than giving them a stern telling off. The trouble is policing is so light touch here that they simply tell people not to do something again or not to do it, which is why the same offences happen over and over again on the regular basis.

The simple situation needs to be, is that if someone breaks a rules or commits a traffic offence they should be handed out a penalty or a punishment for doing so such as penalty points. If that happened then all of the traffic offences I see every time I am in Dublin City Centre wouldn't happen anymore.

But right now the taxi drivers etc know if they break a rule that they will never ever get a fine or a real punishment because the policing is so weak and the most they'll get is a stern word and that's not what I think, that is from daily experience of commuting via the city centre at all kinds of hours for years.

We need less discretion and more zero tolerance.

AndrewJRenko

devnull wrote: »

They should be simply handing out penalties and punishment rather than giving them a stern telling off. The trouble is policing is so light touch here that they simply tell people not to do something again or not to do it, which is why the same offences happen over and over again on the regular basis.

The simple situation needs to be, is that if someone breaks a rules or commits a traffic offence they should be handed out a penalty or a punishment for doing so such as penalty points. If that happened then all of the traffic offences I see every time I am in Dublin City Centre wouldn't happen anymore.

But right now the taxi drivers etc know if they break a rule that they will never ever get a fine or a real punishment because the policing is so weak and the most they'll get is a stern word and that's not what I think, that is from daily experience of commuting via the city centre at all kinds of hours for years.

We need less discretion and more zero tolerance.

3 or 4 out of 5 drivers would be coming home with a speeding ticket from every trip if that happened

dashcamdanny

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

3 or 4 out of 5 drivers would be coming home with a speeding ticket from every trip if that happened

So be it.

Calina

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

They should be simply handing out penalties and punishment rather than giving them a stern telling off. The trouble is policing is so light touch here that they simply tell people not to do something again or not to do it, which is why the same offences happen over and over again on the regular basis.

The simple situation needs to be, is that if someone breaks a rules or commits a traffic offence they should be handed out a penalty or a punishment for doing so such as penalty points. If that happened then all of the traffic offences I see every time I am in Dublin City Centre wouldn't happen anymore.

But right now the taxi drivers etc know if they break a rule that they will never ever get a fine or a real punishment because the policing is so weak and the most they'll get is a stern word and that's not what I think, that is from daily experience of commuting via the city centre at all kinds of hours for years.

We need less discretion and more zero tolerance.

3 or 4 out of 5 drivers would be coming home with a speeding ticket from every trip if that happened

For a while maybe.

FTR police here in Luxembourg can confiscate licences for certain drink driving offences here rather than waiting for a slowly grinding court system to hand out the bans.

cgcsb

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

3 or 4 out of 5 drivers would be coming home with a speeding ticket from every trip if that happened

Great, that'd change behavior.

cgcsb

I was in Dublin City Centre during the evening rush hour, which is unusual for me. I was completely shocked at the driving. Yellow boxes, even those with tram tracks in them were full of stopped cars, every bus lane was being ignored, by drivers taxis and even some cars were stopping at bus stops and blocking them, cars were ploughing through red lights when pedestrians were crossing, it was just mayhem, I was reminded of a recent trip I took to Marrakech. There were two English girls standing at the junction of OCB/D'Olier/Westmoreland looking very scared, not knowing what to do.

After this experience, I think it's safe to say that motorists and taxi drivers just will not behave themselves in a civil fashion in Dublin City Centre. I say start rolling out the car bans on the quays, build the plaza and start camera enforcement, which is widespread in Belfast despite much more civilized driving.

fly_agaric

cgcsb wrote: »

I was in Dublin City Centre during the evening rush hour, which is unusual for me. I was completely shocked at the driving. Yellow boxes, even those with tram tracks in them were full of stopped cars, every bus lane was being ignored, by drivers taxis and even some cars were stopping at bus stops and blocking them, cars were ploughing through red lights when pedestrians were crossing, it was just mayhem, I was reminded of a recent trip I took to Marrakech. There were two English girls standing at the junction of OCB/D'Olier/Westmoreland looking very scared, not knowing what to do.

After this experience, I think it's safe to say that motorists and taxi drivers just will not behave themselves in a civil fashion in Dublin City Centre. I say start rolling out the car bans on the quays, build the plaza and start camera enforcement, which is widespread in Belfast despite much more civilized driving.

Irish are not like Germans/Scandinavians (or English people perhaps?)
No strong enforcement, the laws will be "bent", shure you'd be a fool to bother if you can be almost certain to get get away with breaking them.
In ~ 15 years of commuting don't think I've ever seen the guards enforcing traffic laws in Dublin city centre during rush hour other than on a temporary basis around Christmas (and afair "Operation Freeflow" pretty much died a death after the great recession/crash hit the Garda budget).

derekbro

Taxi restrictions are "now coming in to force"

Taxis banned from College Green during weekday mornings http://jrnl.ie/3961465

Sierra Oscar

derekbro wrote: »

Taxi restrictions are "now coming in to force"

Taxis banned from College Green during weekday mornings http://jrnl.ie/3961465

I've noticed a big change so far, D'Olier Street has been pretty empty passing through it the last couple of mornings. Good to see Garda enforcement too, hopefully it continues.

My bus commute is back to near what it was when the new bus route was first introduced on the north quays.

AlekSmart

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I've noticed a big change so far, D'Olier Street has been pretty empty passing through it the last couple of mornings. Good to see Garda enforcement too, hopefully it continues.

My bus commute is back to near what it was when the new bus route was first introduced on the north quays.

With the NTA offering figures of 150 Taxis per hour in the morning peak,this translates to 450 vehicles over the 0700-1000 period,most of which will be either empty,or carrying a single fare.
Significant numbers of these Taxis will be either cruising,relocating to another rank,or heading to a booked pickup.
However,the physical roadspace taken up by these 450 Taxi's,allied to the manner in which these vehicles are driven,contributed all too visibly,to the decision to exclude them from the Route.

It really is a simple issue,either the Bus Gate operates 24/7 or the route remains open for ALL traffic.
The location and layout of the area,does not allow for any of this Peak/Off Peak stuff,which bedevils so much of Dublins so-called Public Transport Priority.

BonnieSituation

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I've noticed a big change so far, D'Olier Street has been pretty empty passing through it the last couple of mornings. Good to see Garda enforcement too, hopefully it continues.

My bus commute is back to near what it was when the new bus route was first introduced on the north quays.

Last Friday I got the bus to Merrion Square and even then it was a vast improvement.

wakka12

A recently revitalised square in lisbon
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=147466619&postcount=3681
Great things happen when you tell cars to GTFO

AlekSmart

wakka12 wrote: »

A recently revitalised square in lisbon
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=147466619&postcount=3681
Great things happen when you tell cars to GTFO

Any reason(s) coming to mind as to why Dublin's Authorities cannot follow Lisbon's example ?

hmmm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Last Friday I got the bus to Merrion Square and even then it was a vast improvement.

Yep. If only someone could have predicted that the hordes of taxis travelling through College Green was causing most of the congestion - who knew?!

BonnieSituation

hmmm wrote: »

Yep. If only someone could have predicted that the hordes of taxis travelling through College Green was causing most of the congestion - who knew?!

Heh heh

Hurrache

AlekSmart wrote: »

Any reason(s) coming to mind as to why Dublin's Authorities cannot follow Lisbon's example ?

Special interest groups such as hoteliers, taxi drivers, car park owners, and incompetent councillors.

cgcsb

fly_agaric wrote: »

Irish are not like Germans/Scandinavians (or English people perhaps?)
No strong enforcement, the laws will be "bent", shure you'd be a fool to bother if you can be almost certain to get get away with breaking them.
In ~ 15 years of commuting don't think I've ever seen the guards enforcing traffic laws in Dublin city centre during rush hour other than on a temporary basis around Christmas (and afair "Operation Freeflow" pretty much died a death after the great recession/crash hit the Garda budget).

Cultures change, a few CCTV cameras and a few €200 fines will change tunes very quickly. Private cars have no business being on the quays during rush hour, there's just no room for them and they clearly aren't able to be civil to other road users and respect the rules. I would like DCC the NTA and the Gardaí to just walk around the core area during rush hour and just look at the absolute carnage.

cgcsb

AlekSmart wrote: »

With the NTA offering figures of 150 Taxis per hour in the morning peak,this translates to 450 vehicles over the 0700-1000 period,most of which will be either empty,or carrying a single fare.
Significant numbers of these Taxis will be either cruising,relocating to another rank,or heading to a booked pickup.
However,the physical roadspace taken up by these 450 Taxi's,allied to the manner in which these vehicles are driven,contributed all too visibly,to the decision to exclude them from the Route.

It really is a simple issue,either the Bus Gate operates 24/7 or the route remains open for ALL traffic.
The location and layout of the area,does not allow for any of this Peak/Off Peak stuff,which bedevils so much of Dublins so-called Public Transport Priority.

I don't understand why there are cars on college green on busy Saturday afternoons. What on earth is that about?

cgcsb

hmmm wrote: »

Yep. If only someone could have predicted that the hordes of taxis travelling through College Green was causing most of the congestion - who knew?!

A bit like the housing minster making a big press conference announcement basically saying that we need to build more apartments to solve the housing crisis. These little nuggets of wisdom that come out several decades after the general public are well aware of the solution, that's what you're paying those golden salaries for, the biggest salaries in the world for their roles in many cases.

howiya

cgcsb wrote: »

I don't understand why there are cars on college green on busy Saturday afternoons. What on earth is that about?

Maybe if public transport frequency was increased to match weekday frequency less people would drive on weekends

bk

howiya wrote: »

Maybe if public transport frequency was increased to match weekday frequency less people would drive on weekends

In fairness, that has been noted and suggested as part of the BusConnects plan.

Jarrett Walker's report that weekend services and in particular Sunday services weren't in line with modern demands.

Sam Russell

It's the PARKING, stupid.

If there is no where to park, only through traffic is there. No parking, less traffic (except for those driving around looking for non-existent parking places).

On street parking is central to the traffic problem.

bk

Sam Russell wrote: »

It's the PARKING, stupid.

If there is no where to park, only through traffic is there. No parking, less traffic (except for those driving around looking for non-existent parking places).

On street parking is central to the traffic problem.

I watched an interesting TED Talk about traffic planning and they had found that roughly 30% (internationally) of city center traffic was just people driving around looking far parking! Very inefficient use of valuable road space.

On the other hand, at least you can argue that these people are actually going into the city and using it. People just driving through the city, but not using it, is complete madness and should be completely cut out.

Ben D Bus

bk wrote: »

I watched an interesting TED Talk about traffic planning and they had found that roughly 30% (internationally) of city center traffic was just people driving around looking far parking!

Don't say that too loud or you'll have the planners wanting to build more carparks to solve the traffic problem :eek:

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

It's the PARKING, stupid.

If there is no where to park, only through traffic is there. No parking, less traffic (except for those driving around looking for non-existent parking places).

On street parking is central to the traffic problem.

It's part of the problem alright. Parking as abundant, more so than any European City of Dublin's size. But lack of parking isn't a problem for the Irish motorist. They'll just park at a bus stop, or in the cycling lane. Who's going to stop them?

bk

Ben D Bus wrote: »

Don't say that too loud or you'll have the planners wanting to build more carparks to solve the traffic problem :eek:

Well Park & Rides are actually a really good idea.

howiya

bk wrote: »

In fairness, that has been noted and suggested as part of the BusConnects plan.

Jarrett Walker's report that weekend services and in particular Sunday services weren't in line with modern demands.

Yes but until those plans are more than plans there's no point in posters wondering why people are in their cars on a Saturday afternoon. It's fairly obvious why

howiya

bk wrote: »

Well Park & Rides are actually a really good idea.

They're an excellent idea but for them to be of the most use we don't want Dublin City planners building them. They should be built further out eg Red Cow, M3 park and ride etc

Ben D Bus

bk wrote: »

Well Park & Rides are actually a really good idea.

Of course! But not really what I meant.

Aictlec

Wonder if the truth matters!

Just google Dublin live and alternative design! 13th of April

AlekSmart

Aictlec wrote: »

Wonder if the truth matters!

Just google Dublin live and alternative design! 13th of April

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/college-green-plaza-alternative-design-14524428

Here ye go.

Mr Marden's plan deserves some publicity and consideration.

However,with the current cast of "administrators" (I use that term advisedly) attempting to cover up their lack of proffessional accumen,it is highly unlikely this intervention will be allowed to proceed.

The people now involved in this are of long standing,in and around the "Administrative" gravy train in Dublin,and will not be found wanting when it comes to protecting their positions.

strandroad

AlekSmart wrote: »

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/college-green-plaza-alternative-design-14524428

Here ye go.

Mr Marden's plan deserves some publicity and consideration.

However,with the current cast of "administrators" (I use that term advisedly) attempting to cover up their lack of proffessional accumen,it is highly unlikely this intervention will be allowed to proceed.

Taxi ranks and car traffic? How is that an improvement? Everything else is pretty much decoration.

noelfirl

AlekSmart wrote: »

Mr Marden's plan deserves some publicity and consideration.

No, no it doesn't. Not in the slightest. We've seen stuff from this persona before - aspects of twee Gaelicisation for the sake of it with little actual solid evidence that you're dealing with anything other than the work of a fantasist.

Reference the designs at the website below. In particular this wonderful doozy of Bono coming out of a shamrock shaped escalator with some bizarre Parisian metro-shamrock pastiche pole plonked beside it.



https://www.celtcia.com/

Best left alone.

strandroad

noelfirl wrote: »

No, no it doesn't. Not in the slightest. We've seen stuff from this persona before - aspects of twee Gaelicisation for the sake of it with little actual solid evidence that you're dealing with anything other than the work of a fantasist.

There's a massive Celtic knot in the middle of his plaza... a dead giveaway.

noelfirl

strandroad wrote: »

There's a massive Celtic knot in the middle of his plaza... a dead giveaway.

My personal favourite from the portfolio remains the Shamrock shaped underground station.



It was never quite clear to me how anyone standing inside the station would be able to actually perceive that it was a shamrock.

AlekSmart

noelfirl wrote: »

My personal favourite from the portfolio remains the Shamrock shaped underground station.



It was never quite clear to me how anyone standing inside the station would be able to actually perceive that it was a shamrock.

Presumably Bono using his special shades....?

It may be crackpot,but when one considers the actual cost of what we curently have,perhaps it's better value ?

Aictlec

noelfirl wrote: »

Best left alone.

No offence but do your homework...

We have won the public vote...

73% Celtcia
27% Dublin City Council

Dublin City Council always expected to get away with this...
Declan has also retired...

MJohnston

Aictlec wrote: »

noelfirl wrote: »

Best left alone.

No offence but do your homework...

We have won the public vote...

73% Celtcia
27% Dublin City Council

Dublin City Council always expected to get away with this...
Declan has also retired...

Public vote? Didn't you admit over on Skyscrapercity that you'd never been to Dublin before?

MJohnston

Aictlec wrote: »

noelfirl wrote: »

Best left alone.

No offence but do your homework...

We have won the public vote...

73% Celtcia
27% Dublin City Council

Dublin City Council always expected to get away with this...
Declan has also retired...

Public vote? Didn't you admit over on Skyscrapercity that you'd never been to Dublin before?

Aictlec

MJohnston wrote: »

Public vote? Didn't you admit over on Skyscrapercity that you'd never been to Dublin before?

Maybe after being bullied...
What difference does it make?
There was a hint of sarcasm...
Uzton studied tidal charts for a tram yard...

Anyone have any other questions?

They said at the council meeting an underpass would force them to go back to the board...

trellheim

What on earth are you going on about ? Somewhat of a thread drift here.

monument

Everyone back on topic please.

Mr Marden had the chance to tender for the design of the project — that’s gone and past.

The topic is the actual College Green Plaza proposals and possible details to improve such, and related issues. The topic is not completely different proposals, especially not to the extend of that taking over the thread and confusing people unaware of the dispute.

— moderator

Aictlec

monument wrote: »

Everyone back on topic please.

Mr Marden had the chance to tender for the design of the project — that’s gone and past.

— moderator

Yes and the EU will investigate it similar to ESB headquarters RIAI issue...

Anyway back to the topic...

From RTE:

He said the recent "debacle" around the cross-city Luas and the debate around the College Green plaza has demonstrated quite clearly that civil servants in the department and the NTA did not have exclusivity over the necessary expertise on how transport provision is planned.

monument

Aictlec wrote: »

Yes and the .......

Read the Commuting and Transport charter before posting again.

When a mod says back on topic, it means back on topic. Not take another go at things that aren't the topic.

-- moderator

Cookie_Monster

Aictlec wrote: »

From RTE:
He said the recent "debacle" around the cross-city Luas and the debate around the College Green plaza has demonstrated quite clearly that civil servants in the department and the NTA did not have exclusivity over the necessary expertise on how transport provision is planned.

He, who?

RobertFoster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

He, who?

General Secretary of the NBRU Dermot O'Leary - https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0426/957392-transport/

Cookie_Monster

RobertFoster wrote: »

General Secretary of the NBRU Dermot O'Leary - https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0426/957392-transport/

oh right, never mind so.

CatInABox

ABP decision delayed again, now due at the end of October, on the 31st.

See here.

alentejo

Past by College Green this morning. My got it is a sad in indictment of public transport policy failings! Wonder what tourists think?