Problems with tennants next door

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 7:34pm #1

Just looking for some advice, we own our house but the one attached to us is rented. We have 6-8 guys living there in a four bed house (they come and go so the amount of them varies).

They started off grand, here to work so it was long hours, friendly enough. Couple of them left at Christmas and more came back that have been nothing but trouble. They have a massive speaker on the kitchen tiles and the music pumps through our walls. My husband has spoken to them and asked them to lower the music and put the speaker on carpet as the sound is vibrating through our floors.

They co operated a little at the beginning but its all gone pear shaped now. Party after party every Saturday night, non stop drinking and one night fighting so bad in the house we had to call the guards, it took four of the to stop the fight and calm the lads down.

So since January we have sent numerous emails to the agent and included the owner in them all.
The agent was helpful at first but has since become a c&%t about the whole thing and told us if we want them out its up to us to get on to the PRTB and start a case!!??

I rang the PRTB who said that was all crap and it was up to her. We then got a mail from the owner to apologise and said they were trying to deal with them through the PRTB.

That was six weeks ago and I've heard nothing from the agent. I had to move out again on Saturday night as the music was so loud, I asked them to turn it down they slammed the door in my face and highered it up. So now the music is going on every evening as well as weekends and I'm sick to death of it.

I sent the agent and owner another mail on Saturday night as all this was going on but no response.

Where do I go from here? Do I just keep emailing? Any advice appreciated.

I've two young kids and the eldest is trying to do homework at the kitchen table but cant concentrate with the music. And just to say we paid a lot for soundproofing in this house so its not like the walls are paper thin, the music is just thumping!

Michael D Not Higgins · 11-04-2016 7:44pm

The landlord can issue a notice of termination for repeated anti social behaviour. Since they are going through the PRTB it's likely they have issued this but they're not moving out and need to get the PRTB involved. You need to open a third party dispute with the PRTB, I'm not sure if it'll help speed up the process but it can't hurt.

Quandary · 11-04-2016 7:48pm

I really feel for you op. So many of these threads pop up in this forum, and sadly there is never a quick solution to the problem. I can only imagine how frustrating it can be.

If it is possible maybe install a basic cctv camera over your front door in case any future "discussions" with these guys gets out of hand.

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 8:06pm

Thanks I will start a case with the PRTB, I have all the emails and phone conversations saved.

We have cameras installed on the house already which will be useful if another fight breaks out.

It is a company rental so I'm sending an email to the manager to let them know exactly what their tenants are doing to us.

The agent said she gave them a verbal and written warning in Feb after our first complaint and three weekends of partying. Then the fight happened and more complaints from us so by now they should be on their notice but she wont respond to our mails or calls.

At the time I also complained that the people had changed since September and they werent the original 8 guys, she said there is only supposed to be 6 of them and she would check their ID's. Again she never came back to us and I know for a fact that 2 guys were sacked at xmas and 2 more came over.
God knows where 8 grown men are sleeping in a 4 bed house!!

Ken. · 11-04-2016 8:13pm

Send the landlord of next door a link to this article. http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/1217/world/landlord-fined-30k-for-tenantsapos-actions-217217.html

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 8:20pm

Thats interesting Ken, might get them to respond if they read that!!

After I asked them to turn the music down on Saturday I had to stay the night in my parents house (up at 6am for work on sunday) I then started getting phone calls from them at 11.30pm that I refused to answer, they had <MOD SNIP > under the number so I knew it was them. Then they switched off the called ID and tried ringing again. I included all that in the email.

Is there any point in contacting my solicitor? Or is it all done through the PRTB now?

Uriel. · 11-04-2016 8:21pm

ken wrote: »

Send the landlord of next door a link to this article. http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/1217/world/landlord-fined-30k-for-tenantsapos-actions-217217.html

Don't see why you'd send that to the landlord other than trying to be a smart ass. The OP outlined that the landlord has initiated a process with the PRTB.

We all know the problems landlords face trying to get rogue tenants removed. If the landlord is following the process he or she can't be liable because of legal and systems failures

K.Flyer · 11-04-2016 8:38pm

ken wrote: »

Send the landlord of next door a link to this article. http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/1217/world/landlord-fined-30k-for-tenantsapos-actions-217217.html

There is no mention of how or if the tenants vacated the property, nor any mention of if the fines were ever paid to the plaintiffs.

Sorry for your troubles O.P., but unless you have a landlord or an estate agent with a decent backbone, this could drag on for a very very long time.
From experience of living next to worse than what you have described, you may be shocked at the difficulties in getting bad and anti-social tenants out.
We had the management company, the landlord and the Garda involved for months to get people out, to the point that the harassment that they were given got too much and eventually they just left, but not by legal or prtb ways.
Best of luck with it.

jimd2 · 11-04-2016 9:01pm

Not my real name wrote: »

Thats interesting Ken, might get them to respond if they read that!!

After I asked them to turn the music down on Saturday I had to stay the night in my parents house (up at 6am for work on sunday) I then started getting phone calls from them at 11.30pm that I refused to answer, they had <MOD SNIP > under the number so I knew it was them. Then they switched off the called ID and tried ringing again. I included all that in the email.

Is there any point in contacting my solicitor? Or is it all done through the PRTB now?

So they started to call you even though YOU were the one inconvenienced and needed to move away for the night?? If so they are really upping the ante and intimidation & if it was me the gardai my solicitor would be involved after that.

<MOD SNIP >

Do you know where they work? If so can you contact their
employer(s) and see if you can get some heat on them that way?

CatFromHue · 11-04-2016 9:22pm

yeah if they're ringing you, for what ever reason but we all know it's trying to intimidate you, then i'd be straight down to the gardai again.

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 9:43pm

Thanks for all the advice.

We've been on to the guards a few times, at the beginning when the partying started, even though we knew the guards cant do anything re noise levels but I wanted it noted to start a case (I could forsee trouble!!). We were also the ones to call the night of the fight, tried numerous times to get the guards report for our file but they were useless tbh. We called in and wrote a letter. I understand the privacy laws around this but I just wanted a one liner to say they attended an incident at the house. The PRTB advised us to get this as well but we never did!!

<MOD SNIP > I know the company as they wear the logo on their jackets. Its a big European company with an Irish branch and my husband just got the email address of the Managing director and HR manager so they will be sent a mail also with the details.
I dont like the idea of anyone losing their jobs but they really have NO consideration for us. They know we've young children but they couldnt care less.

The guys boss lives in there with them but goes home most weekends. We've just tried calling him <MOD SNIP > to tell him we are sending a letter to the company but he hasnt answered.

I wouldnt mind but I was so helpful to them at the beginning, they couldnt get bins sorted so I ordered and paid for them as their was rubbish everywhere for 6 weeks. I gave them a sky box and organised their broadband to help them out, worse bloody fool me!!

Indestructable · 11-04-2016 9:46pm

Contacting their employer is probably not a great move tbh

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 9:47pm

Indestructable wrote: »

Contacting their employer is probably not a great move tbh

Why?

pablo128 · 11-04-2016 9:51pm

Indestructable wrote: »

Contacting their employer is probably not a great move tbh

Neither is them ringing the OP having forced her from her own home with loud music.

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 9:55pm

pablo128 wrote: »

Neither is them ringing the OP having forced her from her own home with loud music.

And that was the third night since Jan we had to leave, including taking my kids out of their beds at midnight and carrying them out in their pjs because we were both too terrified to stay after the fighting.

Indestructable · 11-04-2016 9:58pm

pablo128 wrote: »

Neither is them ringing the OP having forced her from her own home with loud music.

Oh I agree a hundred percent and feel for the OP. It's a horrible situation but contacting their employer could escalate things a lot. If they got wind of it whose to say how they'd react.

athtrasna · 11-04-2016 9:59pm

Mod note

Where the tenants are from is entirely irrelevant, bad tenants come from everywhere. Please do not refer to it in this thread. References have been edited out. Thanks

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 10:02pm

Indestructable wrote: »

Oh I agree a hundred percent and feel for the OP. It's a horrible situation but contacting their employer could escalate things a lot. If they got wind of it whose to say how they'd react.

I understand where you are coming from and I agree I am uncomfortable with it, I'm just at the end of my rope with the whole situation.

jimd2 · 11-04-2016 10:10pm

Not my real name wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice.

<MOD SNIP > I know the company as they wear the logo on their jackets. Its a big European company with an Irish branch and my husband just got the email address of the Managing director and HR manager so they will be sent a mail also with the details.
I dont like the idea of anyone losing their jobs but they really have NO consideration for us. They know we've young children but they couldnt care less.

The guys boss lives in there with them but goes home most weekends. We've just tried calling him <MOD SNIP > to tell him we are sending a letter to the company but he hasnt answered.

I wouldnt mind but I was so helpful to them at the beginning, they couldnt get bins sorted so I ordered and paid for them as their was rubbish everywhere for 6 weeks. I gave them a sky box and organised their broadband to help them out, worse bloody fool me!!

It wouldnt cast me a thought, remember if they lose their jobs they are out of that house straight away and the new tenants would probably be more on their guard.

Your priority is your family (as I am sure you know).

Howjoe1 · 11-04-2016 10:13pm

Had a similar problem. got the landlady's phone number. when they rolled in 3 am at weekend waking up are household, i'd ring the landlord at the same time. they were soon moved on.

keep at the owners, PRTB are useless.

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 10:16pm

Howjoe1 wrote: »

Had a similar problem. got the landlady's phone number. when they rolled in 3 am at weekend waking up are household, i'd ring the landlord at the same time. they were soon moved on.

keep at the owners, PRTB are useless.

We tried doing that to the agent but conveniently she doesn't answer at the weekend.

jimd2 · 11-04-2016 10:17pm

Not my real name wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice.

We've been on to the guards a few times, at the beginning when the partying started, even though we knew the guards cant do anything re noise levels but I wanted it noted to start a case (I could forsee trouble!!). We were also the ones to call the night of the fight, tried numerous times to get the guards report for our file but they were useless tbh. We called in and wrote a letter. I understand the privacy laws around this but I just wanted a one liner to say they attended an incident at the house. The PRTB advised us to get this as well but we never did!!

<MOD SNIP > I know the company as they wear the logo on their jackets. Its a big European company with an Irish branch and my husband just got the email address of the Managing director and HR manager so they will be sent a mail also with the details.
I dont like the idea of anyone losing their jobs but they really have NO consideration for us. They know we've young children but they couldnt care less.

The guys boss lives in there with them but goes home most weekends. We've just tried calling him <MOD SNIP > to tell him we are sending a letter to the company but he hasnt answered.

I wouldnt mind but I was so helpful to them at the beginning, they couldnt get bins sorted so I ordered and paid for them as their was rubbish everywhere for 6 weeks. I gave them a sky box and organised their broadband to help them out, worse bloody fool me!!

Do you know where these guys work? Are there any other neighbours that are equally as pissed off about this?

Why dont you get a group of neighbours to go to the offices of the company uncsolicited and take it up with the MD? Bring a video camera along and record the conversation.

Also, contact the head office in Europe, perhaps get your solicitor to write to them. They wont be too happy about their employees causing mayhem in Ireland.

Take it up with whatever Irish company has given them the contract.

Remember a squeaky wheel gets the most oil. Make as much 'noise' as they do only in a legal way.

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 10:24pm

I gave the people on their other side (not attached) the agents details so they said they'd call her as they are sick of cleaning up beer cans from their garden.

I'm texting and emailing the agent and owner daily at this stage and I wont stop until they respond. If they say they are doing something about it then fair enough but I just want a response at this stage and an end date if possible.

Wesser · 11-04-2016 10:35pm

Hi OP

I went through this myself a few years ago and it was so unbelievably stressful. My heart goes out to you. I reached a point where I really did not want to go home every evening after work. It was probably the one of most stressful phases of my life so far. I was the tenant in the rental house, the next door neighbour was the house owner, so reversed positions. In the end I moved out. I don't have any legal knowledge so My advice to you would be to keep up the pressure on all relevant parties and gather as much evidence as you go. It will eventually end I promise.

Howjoe1 · 11-04-2016 10:36pm

Not my real name wrote: »

We tried doing that to the agent but conveniently she doesn't answer at the weekend.

Agent won't care. Get landlords number and call it or drive out to address and knock on there door. they will soon react.

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 10:41pm

Wesser wrote: »

Hi OP

I went through this myself a few years ago and it was so unbelievably stressful. My heart goes out to you. I reached a point where I really did not want to go home every evening after work. It was probably the one of most stressful phases of my life so far. I was the tenant in the rental house, the next door neighbour was the house owner, so reversed positions. In the end I moved out. I don't have any legal knowledge so My advice to you would be to keep up the pressure on all relevant parties and gather as much evidence as you go. It will eventually end I promise.

Thanks Wesser, I'm just a little worried that it will always be like this because the rent is extortionate for a 4bed semi so I cant ever see a couple/family renting it.

HowJoe the landlord is in the UK.

Howjoe1 · 11-04-2016 10:48pm

Not my real name wrote: »

Thanks Wesser, I'm just a little worried that it will always be like this because the rent is extortionate for a 4bed semi so I cant ever see a couple/family renting it.

HowJoe the landlord is in the UK.

Missed that bit. In my case the Landlord was also out of the Country also, but his Mother collected the rent, so I bombarded her. Has the Landlord any family members here?

scream · 11-04-2016 10:51pm

Not my real name wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice.

We've been on to the guards a few times, at the beginning when the partying started, even though we knew the guards cant do anything re noise levels but I wanted it noted to start a case (I could forsee trouble!!). We were also the ones to call the night of the fight, tried numerous times to get the guards report for our file but they were useless tbh. We called in and wrote a letter. I understand the privacy laws around this but I just wanted a one liner to say they attended an incident at the house. The PRTB advised us to get this as well but we never did!!

<MOD SNIP > I know the company as they wear the logo on their jackets. Its a big European company with an Irish branch and my husband just got the email address of the Managing director and HR manager so they will be sent a mail also with the details.
I dont like the idea of anyone losing their jobs but they really have NO consideration for us. They know we've young children but they couldnt care less.

The guys boss lives in there with them but goes home most weekends. We've just tried calling him <MOD SNIP > to tell him we are sending a letter to the company but he hasnt answered.

I wouldnt mind but I was so helpful to them at the beginning, they couldnt get bins sorted so I ordered and paid for them as their was rubbish everywhere for 6 weeks. I gave them a sky box and organised their broadband to help them out, worse bloody fool me!!

You can get this, we had to get it with our next door nightmares. Also, make sure that you get the name of the guard you speak to each time you phone the station and preferably a Pulse case number, you'd be amazed at how many calls to the station go unrecorded.

Some people will tell you not to bother with a solicitor but we got one and it helped us. It took a couple of years but we got rid of them, it would have been much quicker if the landlord hadn't been fighting to keep the tenants in the property, but he's a c unt so it wasn't a surprise.

Keep a log of everything, times, dates the name of the guard you speak to etc. Ask if the garda station has a Community Officer, that guard will be able to keep track of the ongoing problem and you can liaise with them. It helps to have one guard who is familiar with the case.

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 10:53pm

Not that I know of.

cerastes · 11-04-2016 10:57pm

jimd2 wrote: »

It wouldnt cast me a thought, remember if they lose their jobs they are out of that house straight away and the new tenants would probably be more on their guard.

Your priority is your family (as I am sure you know).

How so? you might think so, all this tells me you might consider this to be a reasonable or rational expectation, in theoty sound, in practice though, it's another thing.
If they have jobs, they can afford to go somewhere else better.
Besides, it is nothing to do with their employer.

OP, dont ring or engage with the tenants anymore, try speak to the landlord and tell them you will take a case against them (the landlord) if they aren't already taking a case against their own tenants through the PRTB, tell them you will provide a supporting letter to state your problems and concerns (anti social behaviour), so they know you wont back out and can proceed with a case.
Ask the landlord for the file or reference no. from the PRTB and to see something which shows what action they have started through the PRTB.
They wont have to show you anything, and it might be better if you only get a visual check of a printout from the landlord, even being seen to be dealing with the landlord might put the tenants in their place, but if too much water has passed under the bridge, I suspect it is better if the tenants go either voluntarily or by being pushed by landlord/prtb.

To be honest, the landlord could I believe give them a notice to quit on their own based on serious anti social behaviour, and if they failed to follow that, then the landlord could take a case against them, I think the landlord should be given supporting documentation from you to show that anti social behaviour had occured or they may be unwilling to proceed for concern of being left high and dry, (this I would think would not have to be every detail of your records of events, just that serious anti social behaviour has occured from a certain date to the present and that you have brought this up with the landlord to resolve by terminating the tenancy), before the landlord could give the tenant the 7 day notice for anti social behaviour, I think the landlord could give this notice without an option of recourse for the tenants to stop the anti social behaviour, as normally a tenant can be given the option to cease any activity that is creating a problem before they could have a tenancy terminated or a landlord could find themselves in trouble.

You could take your own case against the agents or tenants to ensure some case is started against the tenants, read the advice here and see what seems to be the best opinion. The agents may only collect the rent, but may not actually be doing anything else regards managing the place, in which situation, you will have to either take a case against the landlord or the tenants.
If you take a case against the tenants they will be able to attend to defend themselves, if against the landlord, the tenants should not be able to attend in my view. If the landlord is already taking a case against the tenants, then Im not certain if you will be able to take one against the landlord if they are already trying to deal with the problem.
I think dealing with an agent or landlord is better, especially if you can prove you sent them emails reporting the problems, and you will have an even better standing in the PRTB if you can get supporting letters from other neighbours about anti social behaviour or problems.

Record times dates of events and make a record of past events and dates as well as you can remember.
Do not engage with the tenants or in anything which could be used against you or construed as harrassing behaviour of the tenants, the landlord or the agent, keep it impersonal and professional. Dont contact the tenants whatsoever anymore, dont ask them to turn the music down, just make a note of it, and even record any aufio and even video footage with sound in the background.
Contact the agent, the landlord and failing any repsonse or proof of any action to remove the tenants, start your own case with the PRTB.

Not my real name · 11-04-2016 10:59pm

scream wrote: »

You can get this, we had to get it with our next door nightmares. Also, make sure that you get the name of the guard you speak to each time you phone the station and preferably a Pulse case number, you'd be amazed at how many calls to the station go unrecorded.

Some people will tell you not to bother with a solicitor but we got one and it helped us. It took a couple of years but we got rid of them, it would have been much quicker if the landlord hadn't been fighting to keep the tenants in the property, but he's a c unt so it wasn't a surprise.

Keep a log of everything, times, dates the name of the guard you speak to etc. Ask if the garda station has a Community Officer, that guard will be able to keep track of the ongoing problem and you can liaise with them. It helps to have one guard who is familiar with the case.

Hi scream, we've done most of that already, had the names of the 4 guards that attended but none of them would give us the letter we needed. We've also noted all the calls we made and emailed them to the agent/owner with references of times/dates who we spoke to and what the conversation entailed. I wouldnt mind but I've 2 guards living directly opposite this house, I've also asked for their help!!

I'm going to send my solicitor a mail tomorrow to see if he can help.

Problems with tennants next door

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