WW1 wounded in Ireland

riffmongous

Just based on a thought I had last night while reading about WW1, that considering the large number of Irish people who fought in WW1 and the high number of dead, there must also have been quite a large number of wounded, yet of course like most with countries you rarely hear anything about them.

I was wondering if anyone has any information or stories about these people?

Now I guess it will be said that those who fought for the British in WW1 were not welcome in the new Ireland that emerged in the following years, and fair enough, but then there must still be plenty of people from the North who fought and were wounded fighting with the 16th Division who would have returned to a different experience?

Manach

I'm likewise reading a book which starts with WWI,To Hell and Back: Europe 1914-1949 by Ian Kershaw. On the section on that war, he mentions the casualty rates during that conflict and notes that the artillery causes a disproportionate large number of such injuries. So at a guess, the WWI wounded both would have been too badly injured to survive outside specialised homes for such (mostly present in the UK) and that events such as the Spanish flu pandemic would also have effected the surviving wounded much more than full bodied people?

tac foley

First of all, you have to figure out what medical facilities there were in Ireland that could deal with such an influx of wounded, gravely or otherwise. Without wishing to be seen as discriminatory in any way, there was probably nothing at all in Ireland. You have to question why injured soldiery would be sent to Ireland in any case, since it's 'a long way to Tipperary' from the Somme, with England only a short train and boat-journey away.

Add to that that mainland UK, on the other hand, had many large and useful 'homes', suitable for both officers and other ranks, where recovering soldiers, in their distinctive blue serge uniforms, were located until they had made a full recovery, if it was possible, and were then returned as fit to fight. This happened to my grandfather, who, having joined up at the outbreak of the war, was sent back to England on four occasions to recover from injuries and ill-health. He was killed in action on June 21st 1917.

The famous regency 'palace' in Brighton, the Brighton Pavilion, was used to house injured soldiers from the Indian Army, for instance, and many so-called stately homes were given over to the Army medical services. Also figure in that they was no distinction made between native English, Scots, Welsh or Irish with regard to the treatment of injuries or ill-health. After all, at that time Ireland was not a separate entity.

Even my father, born in Cork in 1904, had a UK passport, although he was entitled, later, to a passport issued by the RoI.

tac

Tabnabs

I have a great grand uncle (from Kildare) who was in the RDF and was injured in 1916. He was sent to Cambridge Military Hospital at Aldershot. His brother, who was part of the Canadian Expeditionary Force, managed to get some time off to see him and was shocked at the conditions in the hospital. By the sounds of it, the injured uncle was lucky not to end up in a worse condition as a result of his stay at Aldershot.

He recovered fully thankfully and went on to be of use in the War of Independence and lived out the remainder of his life as a county council worker.

There are/were a lot of convalescence homes in Ireland, many in the Dublin area, that old and injured soldiers and sailors stayed in. Ireland had a large military force at the time and it was part of a necessary infrastructure.

Jellybaby1

Anyone know of any records relating to the wounded? I would assume they had medical records in those, for want of a better word 'M.A.S.H.' hospitals.

riffmongous

tac foley wrote: »

First of all, you have to figure out what medical facilities there were in Ireland that could deal with such an influx of wounded, gravely or otherwise. Without wishing to be seen as discriminatory in any way, there was probably nothing at all in Ireland. You have to question why injured soldiery would be sent to Ireland in any case, since it's 'a long way to Tipperary' from the Somme, with England only a short train and boat-journey away.

Add to that that mainland UK, on the other hand, had many large and useful 'homes', suitable for both officers and other ranks, where recovering soldiers, in their distinctive blue serge uniforms, were located until they had made a full recovery, if it was possible, and were then returned as fit to fight. This happened to my grandfather, who, having joined up at the outbreak of the war, was sent back to England on four occasions to recover from injuries and ill-health. He was killed in action on June 21st 1917.

The famous regency 'palace' in Brighton, the Brighton Pavilion, was used to house injured soldiers from the Indian Army, for instance, and many so-called stately homes were given over to the Army medical services. Also figure in that they was no distinction made between native English, Scots, Welsh or Irish with regard to the treatment of injuries or ill-health. After all, at that time Ireland was not a separate entity.

Even my father, born in Cork in 1904, had a UK passport, although he was entitled, later, to a passport issued by the RoI.

tac

I was thinking of more after the war, and those who had been, how to say, disabled or suffered some sort of permanent wound. There must have been quite a number of amputees among the Irish casualties but I have never read anything about their life in Ireland after the war. While I can imagine in the Free State they would have been as forgotten as the rest of the veterans, probably even more so, I would have thought at least in the North there would be more of a legacy, but I haven't found anything online.

tac foley

Ah. In that case, war-wounded were appallingly treated at the war's end. Over here in mainland UK there were literally thousands of amputees and worse reduced to selling matches, shoelaces and cheap tat, as well as pathetic little groups of 'musicians' busking in the gutters for pennies.
'Old Pals bands' they were called, and were a lasting shame to the governments that had promised veterans a 'land fit for heroes'.

tac

riffmongous

tac foley wrote: »

Ah. In that case, war-wounded were appallingly treated at the war's end. Over here in mainland UK there were literally thousands of amputees and worse reduced to selling matches, shoelaces and cheap tat, as well as pathetic little groups of 'musicians' busking in the gutters for pennies.
'Old Pals bands' they were called, and were a lasting shame to the governments that had promised veterans a 'land fit for heroes'.

tac

Sadly this seems to have been the case in most countries, probably sadder still in Britain considering they at least 'won' the war, I can't imagine how it must have been in the much poorer east, like Russia, Serbia, Romania, Poland etc, especially as these regions were also campaigned over and occupied

RGM

This thread reminds me that I have this on my shelf waiting to be read: http://www.obrien.ie/a-coward-if-i-return-a-hero-if-i-fall

tabbey

There were lots of wartime hospitals in Ireland.

In Rathdown alone, apart from Leopardstown Park Hospital, now part of the Irish service, but for many decades funded by the UK Ministry of Pensions, there were temporary hospitals at Avondale, Carysfort Ave in Blackrock, and at Corrig Road in Dun Laoghaire.

jos28

I had reason to interview the children of some veterans a couple of years ago. They were all based in Dublin and those with injuries/war wounds went to Leopardstown Park http://www.lph.ie/history.php.

My won Grandfather was discharged in 1917 due to ill health and without any visible signs of injury. He was a chronic asthmatic who was mustard gassed in the trenches. He suffered badly with respiratory problems until his death of bronchial pneumonia in 1945. I always feel that people like him should be added to the war dead figures. But I suppose that's the case with all wars. Soldiers still die from their injuries long after the cease fire.

RGM

jos28 wrote: »

I had reason to interview the children of some veterans a couple of years ago. They were all based in Dublin and those with injuries/war wounds went to Leopardstown Park http://www.lph.ie/history.php.

My won Grandfather was discharged in 1917 due to ill health and without any visible signs of injury. He was a chronic asthmatic who was mustard gassed in the trenches. He suffered badly with respiratory problems until his death of bronchial pneumonia in 1945. I always feel that people like him should be added to the war dead figures. But I suppose that's the case with all wars. Soldiers still die from their injuries long after the cease fire.

The criminally overlooked effect of war throughout history is what it does to a soldier mentally. How many casualties have resulted from that.

jos28

RGM wrote: »

The criminally overlooked effect of war throughout history is what it does to a soldier mentally. How many casualties have resulted from that.

Couldn't agree more RGM. I did a course with Futurelearn (link below) and it covered the effects of shell shock, alcoholism and suicides. Truly harrowing stuff

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/categories/history

whisky_galore

Fr Browne (of Titanic photos fame) got wounded in WW1, some info here...
http://www.irishcatholic.ie/photo-gallery/world-war-i-through-lens

In Irish popular culture, the satirical song 'Salonika' makes reference to war-wounded.

"And when the war is over what will the soldiers do,
They'll be walking around with a leg and a half, and the slackers they'll have two"

Tabnabs

Another Irish fold song that references a WW1 veteran is Johnny McGory.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/dubliners/johnnymcgory.html

Stovepipe

Curragh camp graveyard is worth a visit. Lots of WW 1 era gravestones and most are legible. Quite a few dead after the war(s) from disease.