Probate: now a 6-month delay in Dublin -> SCANDAL!

YogiBoy

I dropped in an application for personal probate in the Dublin probate office in Phoenix Street this week. I was told that the estimated waiting time for an appointment has now extended to SIX MONTHS. I was expecting 14 weeks as per earlier posts, already much higher than elsewhere.
My application is pretty simple .. one house and some cash, only direct descendants, and that is it. But SIX MONTHS before we get an interview... more than SIX MONTHS before we can sell the house ...
What an indictment of Irish public services.
What a mess, with the politicians we elect unable to ensure proper management of the probate service.

Adding to my outrage, I was told that getting a sollicitor could help ease the delays a few weeks... while I was also told in the same breath that a personal applicaton and a sollicitor application takes the same time. I think they have to maintain that fiction but in reality a sollicitor does help.
So there is favouritism for those can afford paying the sollicitor 4% of the value of the estate.
WHAT A SCANDAL
And those that are able to skip the queue (I’ve heard of other ways to do that) are doing it to the disadvantage of everyone else who doesn’t have pull. And skipping the queue seems to be frequent enough from what I hear.


I can’t imagine that back in 1916 probate was this hard, this long, this discriminatory.
And the very basis for a state is to protect the right to property. Here we can’t dispose of property for well over SIX MONTHS.

Anyway I am looking to sell the house. I want to get it done well before. So I am considering hiring a sollicitor, if that looks like it can advance the dossier by several weeks.
I suppose it is possible to hire a sollicitor even if the application has been put in personally. Can I keep the same application or does the sollicitor need to resubmit it?
That all the documents are ready for probate should give mé a good level for negotiating lower sollicitor fees, right?
I don’t want to pay a percentage based on the value of the estate but a fixed sum negotiated in advance. EUR 4000 seems to be possible (less outside of Dublin) given what i read here.. (like I said above, a relatively simple estate with 1 house and cash).

Also if I start selling the house with a warning that the probat process won’t be finished before November, at the very earliest, and given that the house is empty, do you think it would be possible that a buyer could promise to buy it, and move in before the sale process even starts, effectively being a tenant for a few months ? Are there legal piffalls in allowing a potential buyer with just a promise?

The really terrible thing about the SIX MONTH delay is that it is getting longer all the time.
Soon it will be SEVEN, then EIGHT months ..
Something needs to be done to put a rocket under the management of that probate office, and whoever political handlers manages them, big time.

And the worst is that people will read this post and nothing will happen. So the passive public get poor public services. The Luas outside the probate office ón strike, the hospital service up the road is falling apart, there are plenty of homeless but yet there are empty houses because we can’t sell them, and all the while politicians are refusing to do their job.
Conclusion: sell and emigrate.

MarkAnthony

Whats with all the random typing in bold?

Pretzill

Can you not still sell the house? I thought you gave an expected total for probate - (you can incur tax if you're way out but having the house valued and adding any other monies would give a good indication) and still proceed.

What I am saying is is it not the value of the estate that goes through probate - if the house was sold the money would stay in an executers account until probate is cleared and then it can be given to inheritants.

Dial Hard

MarkAnthony wrote:

Whats with all the random typing in bold?

And what in the name of anything has 1916 got to do with current probate waiting times???

MarkAnthony

Dial Hard wrote: »

And what in the name of anything has 1916 got to do with current probate waiting times???

I thought it the closing time of the office.

YogiBoy

My understanding now is that a Grant of Probate must granted before a sale of a property can be completed. That said, a property can be sold while the application for the Grant of Probate is pending and the closing date then linked to its issue. This is obviously messier and I hear costlier.

So I see that for the people replying above, they are not scandalised by a SIX-MONTH wait for a probate interview.
= > Well we are getting then the level of public service that we collectively deserve, if we don’t generally insist that on a proper functioning of state services.
The reference to 1916 is of course a reflection on the state of public services in the Republic a hundred years on. Enter the terms ‘probate” and “delay” into Google and you will see that is a particular problem in Dublin, and the Republic.

Speedwell

And the very basis for a state is to protect the right to property.

Do tell us more about how the state should spend more taxpayer money.

gctest50

How long does it take now ?

STOP - go talk to a real, live, living, breathing solicitor

now - before you do something daft without realising it

eg your planned renting it out but not renting it idea :

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/dealing-with-problems-during-your-tenancy/security-of-tenure/

Dial Hard

YogiBoy wrote:

The reference to 1916 is of course a reflection on the state of public services in the Republic a hundred years on.

Considering we didn't become a republic until 1949, the outrage is somewhat premature.

caycro

I was recently in a very similar position. The solicitor charged a pre agreed fixed fee, not a % of the estate. We had the property go Sale Agreed months before probate was done but the day the probate went through, the solicitor completed the sale. However, the probate took 9 months, despite being a single inheritor and a single property. I too thought about the buyer moving in as she was pushing for an earlier closing bit I was advised not to let the prospective buyer rent the property in advance of closing.

Robbo

Is the scandal that the delay is 6 months or that Dublin is now getting as jammed up as the rest of the country?

cobhguy28

Speedwell wrote: »

Do tell us more about how the state should spend more taxpayer money.

The state charge fees starting at a minimum 200 euros for probate with fees rising by value of estate. So it's not the taxpayer who are paying.

hytrogen

caycro wrote:

I was recently in a very similar position. The solicitor charged a pre agreed fixed fee, not a % of the estate. We had the property go Sale Agreed months before probate was done but the day the probate went through, the solicitor completed the sale. However, the probate took 9 months, despite being a single inheritor and a single property. I too thought about the buyer moving in as she was pushing for an earlier closing bit I was advised not to let the prospective buyer rent the property in advance of closing.

+1 to this, when dealing with a solicitor negotiate the fee prior & ensure it's not based on percentage of assets as that can fluctuate throughout the probate when this credit union book & that building society account etc. all gets added up in the end..

YogiBoy

@ Caycro what you said was interesting ... "was advised not to let the prospective buyer rent the property in advance of closing." Why were you advised this ? I guess offhand that is what the advice would be, but that I don't see what the danger for the seller is here.
More generally, if the house is not available immediately, and there is an uncertain date when you move in, I can see that prospect deterring potential buyers and weighing on the price of the house.