Apartment Floor Plan deviation

Varatha

Hi Folks,

I'm through the process of buying a second hand two bedroom apartment in Dublin 8. Contracts are signed from my end but haven't released to Vendor as I'm waiting on few clarification from Vendor.

We've got the floor plan from the Vendor and it has deviations with what was actually built. I do not see an evidence of re-structure or extension done to the property but the deviations were done when the apartment was built.

1. The map has bathroom between two bedrooms, but it was actually built adjacent to the Kitchen.
2. The map has south facing entrance, but the apartment has east facing entrance.

Should I need to worry? or ask an updated map with Vendor?

Otherwise I'm satisfied with the property. Any suggestion would be of great help

Thanks,
Varatha

Butters1979

Was there more similar apartments built in the same area. I would suspect there's a few slight deviations in the apartments built and you have received a map of one of the other variants. the map specify the correct apartment and building number?

Varatha

Yes, There are around 40 apartments built in the same compound. The map has the correct apartment number and also positioned correctly.

the_syco

Varatha wrote: »

1. The map has bathroom between two bedrooms, but it was actually built adjacent to the Kitchen.

When you say "built adjacent to the Kitchen", do you mean the bathroom opens up into the kitchen?

Varatha

No, The bathroom door opens up into Hallway. There is no problem with the apartment construction itself. My only concern is 'Can I have the floor plan different from what was actually built' ?

Thanks,
Varatha

PhoenixParker

The main issue would be whether the current floor plan is compliant with things like fire regs and building regs.
What did your surveyor say or did they comment on it?

Varatha

I did a structural survey and the surveyor said Fire and Building regs are complaint. I showed him the floor plan and said there is a deviation but I guess he dint bother much about it and said 'Yeah some builders do it'

Gumbo

Internal layout is irrelevant from a planning point of view relatively speaking. Altering the layout can affect the Dissibility Access Certificate and the Fire Safety Certificate but it would want to be major alterations to do so.

My guess is the builders simply built it slightly different from the start.

alias no.9

We bought an apartment off the plans in the past. The number on the plans/contract does not correspond with the postal address. Where did you get the floorplan?

Varatha

Yes, I'm guessing that too.. Is it ok if that's the case?

Varatha

alias no.9 wrote: »

We bought an apartment off the plans in the past. The number on the plans/contract does not correspond with the postal address. Where did you get the floorplan?

We've got the floor plan from Vendor's Solicitor.

MarkAnthony

Bear in mind, if nothing else, this has given you pause for thought. Will it cause pause for thought in potential buyers when you come to sell?

If your surveyor has said don't worry, short of getting a second opinion from another surveyor I'd say don't worry.

Varatha

I'd like to add an important point here,

The property is a bank repossessed and is sold by Vulture funds. On the Contract of Sale the 'Special Conditions' states 'the vendor is unable to obtain copies of Opinion on Compliance with Building Regulations and shall not be obliged to furnish any other information or documentation relating to same. The purchaser is deemed to accept the position and no objections shall be made or requisition raised in this regard'

Is this a MUST to have document? I'm bit worried if this could be a problem in future if I want to sell the apartment.

Could someone clarify on this please?

Varatha

To be added, The property was built on 1998.

athtrasna

As it's an apartment surely the management company can answer any queries you have?

Gumbo

Varatha wrote: »

I'd like to add an important point here,

The property is a bank repossessed and is sold by Vulture funds. On the Contract of Sale the 'Special Conditions' states 'the vendor is unable to obtain copies of Opinion on Compliance with Building Regulations and shall not be obliged to furnish any other information or documentation relating to same. The purchaser is deemed to accept the position and no objections shall be made or requisition raised in this regard'

Is this a MUST to have document? I'm bit worried if this could be a problem in future if I want to sell the apartment.

Could someone clarify on this please?

That's would send me walking. Unless you are happy to keep it for yourself for ever I wouldn't risk it. With most properties it's possible to get opinions of compliance afterwards but with a multi unit bloc, you could be into exploritory works etc

Ask yourself this question, if you tried to sell it next week, do you think another buyer would accept it?

The_Conductor

kceire wrote: »

Internal layout is irrelevant from a planning point of view relatively speaking. Altering the layout can affect the Dissibility Access Certificate and the Fire Safety Certificate but it would want to be major alterations to do so.

My guess is the builders simply built it slightly different from the start.

Changing the internal layout may in fact be relevant from a planning perspective. Bedrooms require natural light and dedicated ventilation. A bathroom requires a window etc etc. The exact requirements will depend on the regs as they were when the building was constructed- however- it is not the case that you can randomly change the internal makeup of the dwelling- it has to meet requirements.

Given the manner in which the OP is buying this- presumably they are getting it at a firesale price- cognisant of the fact its a repossessed property- and the seller is not going to rectify anything, paperwork or otherwise- i.e. what you see is what you get........ If the discount is sufficient for the OP to overlook these issues- or to get their own assessment and decide whether they can run with it or not- then fine- if the discount is not cognisant of these failures- then, tough, they should walk.

In a case like this- I'd assume there was a reasonable discount to open market prices- and run with it on that basis- however- the flipside of the coin is that lack of supply may mean the vendor may tell them to take a hike- in the knowledge they can have a less discerning prospective purchaser lined up tomorrow- its a bit of a toss a coin, heads you win, tails I loose, situation...........

Varatha

kceire wrote: »

That's would send me walking. Unless you are happy to keep it for yourself for ever I wouldn't risk it. With most properties it's possible to get opinions of compliance afterwards but with a multi unit bloc, you could be into exploritory works etc

Ask yourself this question, if you tried to sell it next week, do you think another buyer would accept it?

I've been asking my Solicitor to check with Vendor about the special condition. They replied back saying 'The Purchaser is not in possession of copies of the confirmation referred to at SCHEDULE A, however Architect Opinion on Compliance with Planning Permission and Architect Opinion on Compliance with Building Regulations are in place' . Vendor said he will amend the contract as above said.

I'm really confused !!!

What is SCHEDULE A? Is that a part of planning document and not required if Architects opinion is available ?

PhoenixParker

Schedule A will be a part of the purchase contract. Somewhere in there is a reference to a confirmation of planning permission compliance.
They are substituting an architects opinion that it complies with planning permission/the relevant building regs/fire safety regs for the actual planning permission compliance.

You will need your solicitors and banks opinion on whether or not that is acceptable to you and them. Backed up by your own surveyors report confirming same and possibly a chat with the management company my guess is, it probably is.

Gumbo

The_Conductor wrote: »

Changing the internal layout may in fact be relevant from a planning perspective. Bedrooms require natural light and dedicated ventilation. A bathroom requires a window etc etc. The exact requirements will depend on the regs as they were when the building was constructed- however- it is not the case that you can randomly change the internal makeup of the dwelling- it has to meet requirements.

Those are actual Building Regulations, not Planning Regulations.

You can change the internal layout of a dwelling in anyway you want, but it must then still meet Building Regulations with regards to windows for escape/rescue, ventilation in bathrooms (fan or window) etc etc

Nua

OP, I'm having kinda the same problems with a repossessed/receiver sale at the moment - except that the differences in documentation is not internal, but external (whether the apartment has a storage shed in the carpark or not). The problem came from the original mortgage not being specific. The receiver has no interest in solving the problem but my solicitor has gotten an affidavit from the receiver's solicitor to 'overrule' original documents & to use instead surveyor drawings & plans from the equivalent apartment from a different building, same development just another block . . . Your solicitor should be able to get the same sort of guarantee for you! Especially if it meets building regulations, but important that the revised changes are agreed with vendor so all your paperwork is in order when/if you yourself want to sell on - best of luck

Varatha

I'm following up with my Solicitor to get clarification on the SCHEDULE A part.

Does the buyer Solicitor submit all the sale related documents to the Bank for verification before the buyer sign the contract?

Thanks,
Varatha