2016 1st and 2nd Picks Trade Chat

Knex*

1st rounder for Thomas would be a little mad, I think.

JaMarcusHustle

You really need to start posting sources.

Edit: Is Klis your source for this? Because all he said was "Now that LA Rams have the No 1 pick and will take QB, I think Broncos might have interest in Case Keenum."

That's not a rumour. That's an opinion.

helimachoptor

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

More rumours on the back of this trade -

The Broncos have now been linked with a trade for Rams QB Case Keenum - Keenum played for the Texans when Kubiak was coach and knows the Kubiak offence (price being suggested is a fourth round pick).

Along with trying to move out of the no.2 pick it looks like the Browns are trying to move Joe Thomas for a first rounder.

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

You really need to start posting sources.

I read it earlier on a titans forum, cant find the post and source as you can imagine the place is pretty mental today, but i think its more speculation rather than a solid source iirc

Jolly Red Giant

Knex. wrote: »

1st rounder for Thomas would be a little mad, I think.

Three years on the contract at $10million a year.

I think more likely to be a second rounder if someone makes the move. Suggestions that the Colts might be interested.

Jolly Red Giant

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

You really need to start posting sources.

FFS - is it really necessary to post links to trade rumours?

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/04/14/surprising-titans-rams-trade-could-have-big-impact-on-broncos/

Looks like Paul DePodesta is doing a complete clearout in Cleveland and starting with (literally) a clean slate.

Paully D

Wow. :eek: I missed this all day so just catching up now.

My first reaction is that this trade is great news as a Ravens fan as it means a QB is being accounted for with the #1 pick for certain and another may well go at #2. So at least one and probably two of Bosa, Ramsey, Buckner, Tunsil or Jack - the really top tier of player in this draft - will definitely be available.

As for the trade itself, it's actually not as big a cost as it could have been to move from #15 to #1, but at the same time it's lunacy giving up that haul to take Goff or Wentz IMO. There's just too many question marks over both.

That said, if I have to take one I'm going with Goff all day long. I think he's much better than Wentz. I admit I could probably be brought round to seeing Goff as a franchise QB (though I wouldn't be paying an early first never mind that sort of haul to find out) but I think Wentz will be a complete and utter bust.

helimachoptor

Schefter also posted earlier that the trade was agreed last night, but the Rams wanted to hold off given it was Kobes last game, titans agreed to it

JaMarcusHustle

Jolly Red Giant wrote:

FFS - is it really necessary to post links to trade rumours?

That's not a rumour at all.

Jolly Red Giant

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

That's not a rumour at all.

In all honesty - the overwhelming majority of trade 'rumours' are people expressing an opinion of what might happen.

You really are being picky :rolleyes:

Amirani

SantryRed wrote: »

Why are some NFL GMs so short sighted? Stupid trade by the Rams. Titans with a big win!

Most of their jobs are quite short term. They generally can't afford to have a few mediocre years; all the more so for the Rams this year moving to a new big TV market.

Podge_irl

Rams GM and coach are both out the door if they don't finally fulfil the potential in that team this year. Shot to nothing for the GM (less so for the organisation obviously).

adrian522

The Rams fan site is kind of in meltdown. They obviously don't feel they are a QB away from contending, and IMO that is the only reason you make that tade.
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2016/4/14/11430926/2016-nfl-draft-los-angeles-rams-trade-carson-wentz-reaction

Jolly Red Giant

Podge_irl wrote: »

Rams GM and coach are both out the door if they don't finally fulfil the potential in that team this year. Shot to nothing for the GM (less so for the organisation obviously).

The Rams are in LA - they needed to make a splash and getting the no.1 pick is making a splash (even if you have to sell the roof over their head to get it).

Knex*

Question: Do people think Wentz or Goff are better than Sam Bradford coming out of college, or even now?

JaMarcusHustle

IMO - not at all. Bradford had a glittering college career and was unanimously considered the #1 pick despite only playing 3 games in his final year. He was that highly regarded. The only thing Goff or Wentz have over Bradford is no injury concern.

Knex*

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

IMO - not at all. Bradford had a glittering college career and was unanimously considered the #1 pick despite only playing 3 games in his final year. He was that highly regarded. The only thing Goff or Wentz have over Bradford is no injury concern.

And I still think he's a very good QB, tbh. He's extremely efficient and smart with the ball, and I believe if Eagles had two someway decent guards last year, even amongst that dumpster fire season they had, he'd have done a lot better.

I don't understand the Eagles wanting to move away from him now, and I definitely didn't understand the Rams doing it last year for Foles. I suppose injuries really are the main issue.

Hard to see how the QB position for the Rams will be any better with this trade, than it would have been just keeping Bradford and building something decent.

Bradford looked outstanding to start his bfl career as well didn't he win rookie of the year? Injuries killed him

helimachoptor

the worry for the rams is if the QB comes in and is just hammered in their firs t5 games

49'ers
Hawks
Buccs
Cardinals
Bills

those are 2 D's to play against never mind as a number 1 pick for a team who gave up a ransom, Fisher could be sacked by game 6

Knex*

helimachoptor wrote: »

the worry for the rams is if the QB comes in and is just hammered in their firs t5 games

49'ers
Hawks
Buccs
Cardinals
Bills

those are 2 D's to play against never mind as a number 1 pick for a team who gave up a ransom, Fisher could be sacked by game 6

With no OL, no receivers, no tight end.

Gurley will just have to beast it.

Billy86

Don't think I'd call Bradford efficient. Granted he had very little around him for most of his time in St. Louis, but all the same he has only once posted higher than 61% accuracy (this year, 65%) and has only once gone above 6.5YPA (7.0, again this year and not a great figure in-and-of itself). He is pretty good at not turning it over, but then again while the other numbers went up this season, so did his INT percentage at tied 10th worst in the league. Not staggeringly bad, but not great again.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

So they've essentially bet the house on an unproven rookie QB.
That makes sense... not.

Lets hope they get closer to Manning 2.0 than Leaf 2.0 eh! Although what little I've seen of the two prospects, neither look to have the upside of Manning or the downside of Leaf.

Christy42

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

So they've essentially bet the house on an unproven rookie QB.
That makes sense... not.

Lets hope they get closer to Manning 2.0 than Leaf 2.0 eh! Although what little I've seen of the two prospects, neither look to have the upside of Manning or the downside of Leaf.

It is more than that even. The new qb will have little in the way of protection or targets and I don't know when and how they will get them. They seem to have traded being able to give a qb a chance to win for the qb himself. I wonder what the qbs themselves think of this.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Christy42 wrote: »

It is more than that even. The new qb will have little in the way of protection or targets and I don't know when and how they will get them. They seem to have traded being able to give a qb a chance to win for the qb himself. I wonder what the qbs themselves think of this.

True.
I remember the hype around guys like Harrington, David Carr, Schaub and countless others who had the film and ability coming out of big colleges - but in the NFL they went to a team with a high first rounder but no OL to speak of.

I genuinely believe if the likes of Joey Harrington had gone to a good pass blocking team and allowed to develop he would have had a different career. I'd imagine the likes of Goff/Wentz/(insert high rated QB here) would be concerned for their career in a similar way.

JCTO

Away all weekend and just catching up but what are the Rams thinking. Agree with EE none of the QBs in this draft are an upgrade on Mannion. Taking a big risk on what could be possibly no more than average NFL QBs. They have drafted well everywhere else and have a solid team and as others said are a QB away from competing but this trade wont get them what they need. Gamble at its finest.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

FFS - is it really necessary to post links to trade rumours?

I would say yes as without sources it is nothing more than you or anyone posting what looks like your own rumours. A bit like the Sun newspaper or folk on Twitter making sh1t up as they go a long. It is starting to get to a point you read 1 article and it becomes a rumour or thread worthy for you.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/04/14/surprising-titans-rams-trade-could-have-big-impact-on-broncos/

Nothing about this link is rumours. This article is nothing more than a guy giving his opinion on what he thinks could be possible moves.

Jolly Red Giant

JCTO wrote: »

Nothing about this link is rumours. This article is nothing more than a guy giving his opinion on what he thinks could be possible moves.

Yada yada - there have been many articles linking Keenum with the Broncos - and it's not rocket science - Keenum knows Kubiak's offence and acquitted himself reasonably well when starting in the offence in Houston (in a team that was falling apart at the time. It is also not rocket science to know that Kubiak and Elway would, at the very least inquire about Keenum - they have after all inquired about Kap, Fitz, Glennon, McCown, Taylor, Hoyer, traded for Sanchez and brought in three college QBs for visits. Indeed the only QB available that they haven't been interested in was RGIII - because he could not play in Kubiak's offence (and Kubiak had no interest in installing a read-option offence).

JCTO

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Yada yada - there have been many articles linking Keenum with the Broncos - and it's not rocket science - Keenum knows Kubiak's offence and acquitted himself reasonably well when starting in the offence in Houston (in a team that was falling apart at the time. It is also not rocket science to know that Kubiak and Elway would, at the very least inquire about Keenum - they have after all inquired about Kap, Fitz, Glennon, McCown, Taylor, Hoyer, traded for Sanchez and brought in three college QBs for visits. Indeed the only QB available that they haven't been interested in was RGIII - because he could not play in Kubiak's offence (and Kubiak had no interest in installing a read-option offence).

How many of these "articles" are actual rumours from reliable sources and not just some beat writers opinion though. Any of us could write an article saying the same thing and millions read it but it doesn't make it fact. Big difference between opinions and rumours and even then some rumours are no more than hear say of someones opinion. Unless it is a reliable source I would put it down to nothing more than some lads opinion.

But hey if you want to believe everything you read and then start your own thread without actual evidence or sources go for it.

heyjude

The magnitude of what was offered in this trade, for the chance to presumably draft a franchise QB must have given the GMs of the Titans, Bucs, Jaguars, Vikings and Raiders, a smug smile as all acquired their franchise QB in the past two drafts without trading away a kings ransom of draft picks.

The relocation of the Rams and their uncertainty at the QB position, perhaps meant that the Rams would be in the market for a QB, but offloading so many picks in exchange, has magnified the pressure on whoever they choose and also puts the five teams mentioned above, who grabbed their QB while still holding onto the picks they needed to surround him with plenty of talent, several steps ahead of the Rams.

HigginsJ

heyjude wrote: »

The magnitude of what was offered in this trade, for the chance to presumably draft a franchise QB must have given the GMs of the Titans, Bucs, Jaguars, Vikings and Raiders, a smug smile as all acquired their franchise QB in the past two drafts without trading away a kings ransom of draft picks.

The relocation of the Rams and their uncertainty at the QB position, perhaps meant that the Rams would be in the market for a QB, but offloading so many picks in exchange, has magnified the pressure on whoever they choose and also puts the five teams mentioned above, who grabbed their QB while still holding onto the picks they needed to surround him with plenty of talent, several steps ahead of the Rams.

Outside of the Vikings the Rams would have more talent on their roster than any of the other 4. They have been at or around .500 (insert Jeff Fisher joke here) for a few years now with a broken Sam Bradford or back up calibre QB's. It is not crazy to suggest if you believe Goff or Wentz is the guy then go get them and damn the cost.

adrian522

In fairness Jeff fisher hasn't been 8-8 since 2009. Very undeserved reputation for always going 8-8.

Paully D

adrian522 wrote: »

In fairness Jeff fisher hasn't been 8-8 since 2009. Very undeserved reputation for always going 8-8.

True, 7-9 would be much more accurate.

heyjude

Looking at Jeff Fisher's 21 year coaching record, its amazing that he's still an NFL head coach. His career average season win-loss % is .509. He's only had 6 winning seasons out of 21,(his last winning season was 2008) and he has had 7 or 8 wins in 10 of his 20 full seasons as a coach, with a median career record of 8-8. He's now going into his fifth season as Rams coach, having posted a losing record in each of the last four years and yet apparently his job is safe.

He seems to be the NFL equivalent of a safe pair of hands producing teams that are mostly neither bad enough to get him fired, nor good enough to challenge for the playoffs. Maybe in the NFL, if you're bad its better to be really bad so you get a high draft pick(and don't have to trade up to get it).

JaMarcusHustle

Saw an interesting stat today.

In the past five years, 5 players have picked by teams in the Top 5 after that team traded up to get them.

Of those 5 players, only Sammy Watkins played in 2015.

RG3, Trent Richardson, Dion Jordan and Justin Blackmon didn't play a single snap.

adrian522

Julio Jones not count for this? Started in 2011 I think, maybe just outside the top 5 actually.

adrian522

adrian522 wrote: »

Julio Jones not count for this? Started in 2011 I think, maybe just outside the top 5 actually.

Wasn't he about 7?

Beefy78

He was drafted sixth.

keano_afc

Yeah, nothing to add here but as a Rams fan I'm pretty worried that we've given up a kings ransom to land a QB that nobody would describe as elite. Its not like we're drafting Andrew Luck here.

TheDoctor

Word of Eagles trade with the Browns for the no.2 pick.

Billy86

TheDoctor wrote: »

Word of Eagles trade with the Browns for the no.2 pick.

If true, I guarantee the Browns get a good price, set themselves up nicely for draft day, look in a position to really push on and add some key pieces (because they've got some good talent in there, on defense at least)... and then completely squander it next week.

Every single year it seems to happen!

Knex*

TheDoctor wrote: »

Word of Eagles trade with the Browns for the no.2 pick.

Hope this is true, tbh. Don't want Elliot or someone like that falling to them at 7, and if they ship away a few picks for Goff or Wentz, having put considerable money into Bradford and Daniels, I'd likely prefer that.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

Hope this is true, tbh. Don't want Elliot or someone like that falling to them at 7, and if they ship away a few picks for Goff or Wentz, having put considerable money into Bradford and Daniels, I'd likely prefer that.

Considering the money invested in Bradford & Daniel it really would make almost no sense to move up for one of those QB's (unless they have a plan to ship one of the QB's on the roster - Bradford to Denver).

Would Tunsil be their target or would it really be a QB?

Beefy78

Knex. wrote: »

Hope this is true, tbh. Don't want Elliot or someone like that falling to them at 7, and if they ship away a few picks for Goff or Wentz, having put considerable money into Bradford and Daniels, I'd likely prefer that.

Agreed, Eagles selling the house to move to #2 would be great for the rest of the NFC East.

helimachoptor

this is a pretty good read

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/19/titans-rams-draft-trade-inside

adrian522

If the Browns are willing to trade their pick why did LA not just move up to 2? It would have been a lot cheaper and given they don't seem to know which guy is better it wouldn't make that much difference to them.

Beefy78

Ah they must know who they want - everything else is a smokescreen in case there's a last minute injury or something. They don't trade everything they traded without knowing 100% who they are going for and if they trade into #2 then they run the risk of someone buying into #1 and taking their guy.

Knex*

adrian522 wrote: »

If the Browns are willing to trade their pick why did LA not just move up to 2? It would have been a lot cheaper and given they don't seem to know which guy is better it wouldn't make that much difference to them.

What if Eagles or someone else then traded to 1? Titans were shopping it, it seemed.

adrian522

I know, but 1. chances of someone giving up that much are not great and 2. it seems they are not sure which QB is best so may be ok with whoever is left.

coco0981

I would be shocked if the Rams don't have a preference one way or the other. No team would trade that many picks unless they were sure who they wanted, which is why they went to no1 instead if dealing with the Browns. Sounds like Goff is their pick

helimachoptor

Browns have traded their pick to the eagles. Stick the chat in here and I'll change he title

HigginsJ

Browns get picks 8, 77 & 100 this year, Eagles 1st rounder next year & their 2018 2nd rounder. Eagles get pick 2 & Browns 4th rounder this year.

Fascinated by what the Eagles are doing going up to 2 this early. Do they know which QB the Rams are taking? If they take a QB what do they do with Bradford?

Not a bad haul from the Browns point of view. Could still get a very good player at 8.

coco0981

Great news for RG3