All households must be registered with a licensed waste collector by July 1

Speedwell

seamus wrote: »

Jaysus, a lot of people getting their knickers in a twist here.

You pay to have your bins emptied at the moment, right? So yeah, that won't change.

The rates being touted are 2c/kg for recycling, 6c/kg for food waste and 11c/kg for general waste. Which for most normal people should work out to about a €1/month per person.

Add on service charges (collectors have to make money), you're probably looking at ~ €3/month/person. Which is about the same as I'm paying right now, in fact slightly less.

Interesting. That in fact works out to about half the amount charged per kg at my current rate, not counting the standing charge. Speaking of, is there any proposed regulation regarding standing charges? Are those weight charges intended to be only for Dublin, or do they apply everywhere?

Freddio

I like it, you pose a question about a dubious government deal in the waste industry whereby the winning tenderer is contractually guaranteed a healthy profit margin, later on in the story, the government is bringing in laws concerning waste management at the other end, and you are retorted with a right wing snipe about travellers.


Validates my point really

seamus

Speedwell wrote:

Interesting. That in fact works out to about half the amount charged per kg at my current rate, not counting the standing charge. Speaking of, is there any proposed regulation regarding standing charges? Are those weight charges intended to be only for Dublin, or do they apply everywhere?

Annoyingly, I've been having difficulty finding the specific regulations on it, they're probably embedded as amendments of existing ones.

My understanding is that a minimum or baseline charge for each type of waste will be set by the department of the environment, but the actual rates will be set by each local authority. The LA's also have complete control over the licencing of waste operators, so will be able to oversee the service charges being applied.

In some areas where there's massive competition, service charges regulate themselves - in Dublin I pay €200/year for an "all you dump" waste service. But in rural areas where there may only be one operator, I imagine the LA will have to tell the operator what they can charge and rely on people to make complaints when the charge is too high.

mansize

my charge is €19 a month for a small waste and standard recycling bin

seamus

Yes, mine is a little than €19/month, but actually not €100/year. I paid it all upfront last year and forgot how much it was

Speedwell

seamus wrote: »

Annoyingly, I've been having difficulty finding the specific regulations on it, they're probably embedded as amendments of existing ones.

I had a good look using a couple of different Google search strings, and the numbers you quote are cited by most websites as a minimum charge. Sites that say something about what will actually be charged seem to typically say the cost to the customer will be double that. About standing charges, Westmeath county council say, "So from July 2016 each household will pay an annual service charge for collection and after that their waste contractor will weigh the bins each time they are collected and apply a charge based on the weights of the bin." That's what I do now, except my collector allows me to pay the annual standing charge in quarterly payments. If I'm charged double the minimum rate, I will see no savings.

Edit: The charges on my collector's website for new household accounts are exactly the same as what I pay now, so no expectation they will drop their prices in July.

HensVassal

Jayop wrote: »

I think for most people it's tough not to produce waste. There should be more regulations on packaging that would stop more waste than anything an individual could produce.

The likes of that image doing the round with an orange peeled in a plastic container should be illegal for example.

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/1231851_1280x720.jpg

And kids toys are another thing. The amount of crap that they come with is mental.

It's all a fcuking scam. These assholes charge us for a plastic bag at the supermarket in some "altruistic" bid to save the environment and at the same time demand that we put our fcuking toothpaste in a plastic bag at the airport in some dismal attempt to convince us it's all in the interests of the "war on terra".

You have to stump up 70 cents for a bag at the checkout yet you can buy 20 bin liners for a little over a euro so every time I go I just get bin bags as well (I'm going to use them anyway) and carry my stuff home in one of them.

Graham

HensVassal wrote: »

It's all a fcuking scam. These assholes charge us for a plastic bag at the supermarket in some "altruistic" bid to save the environment and at the same time demand that we put our fcuking toothpaste in a plastic bag at the airport in some dismal attempt to convince us it's all in the interests of the "war on terra".

You have to stump up 70 cents for a bag at the checkout yet you can buy 20 bin liners for a little over a euro so every time I go I just get bin bags as well (I'm going to use them anyway) and carry my stuff home in one of them.

Create less waste, pay less to have it taken away. It's fairly straightforward.

cowboyBuilder

My Dad has a holiday home in a rural area and he burns his rubbish (as he's rarely there), will he still have to register ?

Speedwell

HensVassal wrote: »

It's all a fcuking scam. These assholes charge us for a plastic bag at the supermarket <snip> You have to stump up 70 cents for a bag at the checkout yet you can buy 20 bin liners for a little over a euro so every time I go I just get bin bags as well (I'm going to use them anyway) and carry my stuff home in one of them.

Or you could go to eBay and buy a handful of colorful, indestructible Baggu knockoffs from China for a little over a euro each with free shipping. Life is too short for this kind of "uncivil disobedience".

BattleCorp

seamus wrote: »

Jaysus, a lot of people getting their knickers in a twist here.

You pay to have your bins emptied at the moment, right? So yeah, that won't change.

The rates being touted are 2c/kg for recycling, 6c/kg for food waste and 11c/kg for general waste. Which for most normal people should work out to about a €1/month per person.

Add on service charges (collectors have to make money), you're probably looking at ~ €3/month/person. Which is about the same as I'm paying right now, in fact slightly less.

Would you bet your house on the fee staying at around €3 per person per month? I wouldn't bet jack sh1t on it staying anywhere near as low as that.

If the prices go up, I can see an increase in the amount of fly tipping or an increase in the amount of people burning their rubbish.

Graham

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

My Dad has a holiday home in a rural area and he burns his rubbish (as he's rarely there), will he still have to register ?

Quite likely.

seamus

BattleCorp wrote: »

Would you bet your house on the fee staying at around €3 per person per month? I wouldn't bet jack sh1t on it staying anywhere near as low as that.

Prices rise. That's undeniable. In ten years time, no it won't be €3/month anymore. It's called inflation, and it affects everything you buy.

It's a bit of a ridiculous statement, like the people who go on about, "I bet you these water charges are going to go up and up". Yes, yes they are. Just like the price of milk goes up and up.

BattleCorp

seamus wrote: »

Prices rise. That's undeniable. In ten years time, no it won't be €3/month anymore. It's called inflation, and it affects everything you buy.

It's a bit of a ridiculous statement, like the people who go on about, "I bet you these water charges are going to go up and up". Yes, yes they are. Just like the price of milk goes up and up.

I'm not talking about a 10 year timescale. I can see this rising rapidly after year one or two.

Kind of like the Irish Water bills. If Irish Water was to break even, the bills would have to increase at least five fold to even reach the break even point.

There are two of us in my house. At €3 per person/month, that would be €6/month. I'm paying slightly over €20/month. I very much doubt that my bill will drop to 1/3 of what it is now.

seamus

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm not talking about a 10 year timescale. I can see this rising rapidly after year one or two.

We already pay for waste. Why would a different charging system suddenly result in rapid rises in cost? You have nothing to base your opinion on.

HensVassal

seamus wrote: »

Jaysus, a lot of people getting their knickers in a twist here.

You pay to have your bins emptied at the moment, right? So yeah, that won't change.

The rates being touted are 2c/kg for recycling, 6c/kg for food waste and 11c/kg for general waste. Which for most normal people should work out to about a €1/month per person.

Add on service charges (collectors have to make money), you're probably looking at ~ €3/month/person. Which is about the same as I'm paying right now, in fact slightly less.

Why do collectors have to make money? Not everything in life needs to be a profit scheme. Society should have certain service and amenities available even if the provision thereof is a net overall cost.

"Excellent rail system is not making a profit? Scrap it and let the fcukers walk! I'm ok, I have a government limo."

"Village police station not paying for itself? Shut it down, can the coppers and let the rural pensioners fend for themselves."

I doubt Holland's marvelous national network of bicycle lanes makes a "profit" but try scrapping it because it costs money and you'd be torn limb from limb by the cloggies.

BattleCorp

seamus wrote: »

We already pay for waste. Why would a different charging system suddenly result in rapid rises in cost? You have nothing to base your opinion on.

Em, I don't know, experience.

Like the college fee thing. Start off at €100 or something and now it is nearly €3,000

Waste collectors have to make money. In the example I gave earlier, my bill should drop by 2/3. Can't see waste collectors making money if that happens.

Allinall

HensVassal wrote: »

It's all a fcuking scam. These assholes charge us for a plastic bag at the supermarket in some "altruistic" bid to save the environment and at the same time demand that we put our fcuking toothpaste in a plastic bag at the airport in some dismal attempt to convince us it's all in the interests of the "war on terra".



You have to stump up 70 cents for a bag at the checkout yet you can buy 20 bin liners for a little over a euro so every time I go I just get bin bags as well (I'm going to use them anyway) and carry my stuff home in one of them.

Why don't you re-use bags for your shopping?

Are you really saying the people that brought in the plastic bag levy are the same ones that regulate security at airports? Really, like?

flutered

OU812 wrote: »

That'd be eircode.

they dont know them all, it was set up with the expressed intintion of providing revenue with the exact number of houses, so as lpt could be collected in its entirety, it so far has failed to do so

Speedwell

Remember that the stated charges are minimums. I've been paying on pay-by-weight for a year and a half now. We don't get charged for the recycle bin, and we don't get a compost bin at all. My regular bin is now being charged at more than double the suggested minimum rate. I can't see those charges going down once they start charging for recycling. And all bets are off as far as standing charges go.

seamus

HensVassal wrote: »

Why do collectors have to make money? Not everything in life needs to be a profit scheme. Society should have certain service and amenities available even if the provision thereof is a net overall cost.

Because in general governments tend to be really bad at public service provision.

Your choice is to pay for a waste service that aims to be profitable, and therefore must be competitive. Or you can pay higher taxes for a service that has no incentive to be efficient and improve itself.

It's a balancing act. There are some services for which complete privatisation does more harm than good - defence, education, health, infrastructure. But plenty of other services for which it allows the service to be more effective - waste, electricity, public transport, etc.

Provided the state sets out a USO for these services and fills in the gaps where private operators won't, society benefits from for-profits activity in these services.

I doubt Holland's marvelous national network of bicycle lanes makes a "profit" but try scrapping it because it costs money and you'd be torn limb from limb by the cloggies.

Profits aren't always measured in cash terms. Holland "profits" through improved public health, reduced emissions and tourism.

flutered

comical alan was only interested in the extra vat which would make its way into the goverment coffers, similar to the one in agriculture, where the muckers could not dehorn suck calves, it became a vet only job, the extra vat on the vets bill found its way to the goverment coffers, it the little things which matter, because when you bring them all togeather becomes a large thing, in this case amount, then we will have trousering party socks on social media squealing with delight as regards the extra tax collected each quarter

HensVassal

Speedwell wrote: »

I had a good look using a couple of different Google search strings, and the numbers you quote are cited by most websites as a minimum charge. Sites that say something about what will actually be charged seem to typically say the cost to the customer will be double that. About standing charges, Westmeath county council say, "So from July 2016 each household will pay an annual service charge for collection and after that their waste contractor will weigh the bins each time they are collected and apply a charge based on the weights of the bin." That's what I do now, except my collector allows me to pay the annual standing charge in quarterly payments. If I'm charged double the minimum rate, I will see no savings.

Edit: The charges on my collector's website for new household accounts are exactly the same as what I pay now, so no expectation they will drop their prices in July.

Cue little neighbourhood scumbags putting rocks in the wheelie bin of the neighbour they don't like just to ramp up his charges.

HensVassal

Graham wrote: »

Create less waste, pay less to have it taken away. It's fairly straightforward.

Making people put their deoderant in a plastic bag at the airport creates tons of waste and of the non-biodegradeable type, no?
Where's the commitment to plastic reduction there?

Speedwell

HensVassal wrote: »

Making people put their deoderant in a plastic bag at the airport creates tons of waste and of the non-biodegradeable type, no?
Where's the commitment to plastic reduction there?

Did you know there is absolutely nothing in the applicable regulations that prevents you from using a reusable transparent bag that meets the size requirements? You can purchase them where they sell luggage and travel accessories, usually. Mine was a nice thick clear vinyl bag sewn with an actual zipper in the top. Never a problem.

HensVassal

seamus wrote: »

Prices rise. That's undeniable. In ten years time, no it won't be €3/month anymore. It's called inflation, and it affects everything you buy.

It's a bit of a ridiculous statement, like the people who go on about, "I bet you these water charges are going to go up and up". Yes, yes they are. Just like the price of milk goes up and up.

There's a big difference between inflation and price-gouging. Once the consumer is on the hook to a private corporation for a service that corporation can jack up the price in the interests of the bottom line and it's got fcuk all to do with inflation although they'll always tell you it is because if they were honest with you and admitted they were fleecing you you might get ever so miffed. Better to let you think it's all for your own good.

HensVassal

Allinall wrote: »

Why don't you re-use bags for your shopping?

Are you really saying the people that brought in the plastic bag levy are the same ones that regulate security at airports? Really, like?

What on Earth made you come to that conclusion?

HensVassal

Speedwell wrote: »

Did you know there is absolutely nothing in the applicable regulations that prevents you from using a reusable transparent bag that meets the size requirements? You can purchase them where they sell luggage and travel accessories, usually. Mine was a nice thick clear vinyl bag sewn with an actual zipper in the top. Never a problem.

Oh boy!!
Two words spring to mind here....candy and baby.

Speedwell

HensVassal wrote: »

Oh boy!!
Two words spring to mind here....candy and baby.

Well, you also have to buy the plastic bags you put your toiletries in, unless you like holding up the line at the airport to use theirs for free. But gripers gotta gripe.

bpmurray

So does this mean that a "Licenced waste collector" will now come along and collect my rubbish? They haven't for the almost 25 years I've lived here so I'm wondering if they really are going to start because of this. We deliver our waste to the local recycling centre (most is actually recycled, food scraps go to the dogs & cats, plant matter + paper goes to the compost) - do they actually plan on stopping that service?

Allinall

HensVassal wrote: »

What on Earth made you come to that conclusion?

Your post that I quoted.

Allinall

HensVassal wrote: »

These assholes charge us for a plastic bag at the supermarket in some "altruistic" bid to save the environment and at the same time demand that we put our fcuking toothpaste in a plastic bag at the airport in some dismal attempt to convince us it's all in the interests of the "war on terra".

Here.

I wear socks

Apparently Eircode is going to be used to ensure this Law is enforced, I guess they had to find some use for it.

seamus

HensVassal wrote: »

There's a big difference between inflation and price-gouging. Once the consumer is on the hook to a private corporation for a service that corporation can jack up the price in the interests of the bottom line

Yeah, sure they can. That's how free markets work.

Which re-reg are you? We have no end of conspiracy theorist "stick it to do man" types around here.

Graham

HensVassal wrote: »

There's a big difference between inflation and price-gouging. Once the consumer is on the hook to a private corporation for a service that corporation can jack up the price in the interests of the bottom line and it's got fcuk all to do with inflation although they'll always tell you it is because if they were honest with you and admitted they were fleecing you you might get ever so miffed. Better to let you think it's all for your own good.

If only someone could invent a process whereby the services provided by private corporations could be compared against each other and they could battle for your business, a competition if you will :rolleyes:

BattleCorp

Graham wrote: »

If only someone could invent a process whereby the services provided by private corporations could be compared against each other and they could battle for your business, a competition if you will :rolleyes:

That might work in Dublin but the options down in rural Ireland aren't as good.

lazza14

Where you getting this info from anyway ?

New rules in 2016
New rules will come into effect throughout the State from 1 July 2016. They include:

An obligation on all householders (with some exceptions) to segregate food waste from other household waste
An obligation on waste collectors to provide separate receptacles (such as wheelie bins) for food waste, and collect them at least once a fortnight
A 'pay by weight' charging system for all types of waste

Thats all I see here

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/waste_management_and_recycling/domestic_refuse.html

HensVassal

Allinall wrote: »

Why don't you re-use bags for your shopping?

Are you really saying the people that brought in the plastic bag levy are the same ones that regulate security at airports? Really, like?

Mate,

The plastic bag charge is just another scam to make the consumer pay for everything. You think the "drop in the ocean" gesture of plastic bag reduction has the slightest impact on environmental improvement when everything you're putting in your little cloth "bag for life" is in a damn plastic container anyway? Your bottle of Fairy liquid? You jumbo family pack of 12 packs of Tayto, all themselves packaged into another plastic bag? Your plastic bottle of ketchup? Your 6-pack of half litre bottles of Coca-Cola, again themselves snuggly packaged into a plastic jacket? Your frozen peas? Your slab of smoked salmon? Your litre carton of milk? Your 6 yoghurts? Your plastic tub of olives? Your plastic pack of rigatoni? etc., etc?

In the US 35 BILLION plastic bottles are thrown away each year. Big impact your reusing a carrier bag is going to have on that.
If companies can package their shit in plastic yet you have to pay to use plastic then they should be charged too and should buy it back off you.

Speedwell

lazza14 wrote: »

Where you getting this info from anyway ?[/url]

News reports, waste collector sites, county council sites, and the waste collection bill I received last week. My most productive Google string was "pay by weight" cost requirements July 2016.

Speedwell

HensVassal wrote: »

Mate,

In the US 35 BILLION plastic bottles are thrown away each year. Big impact your reusing a carrier bag is going to have on that.

"Every little bit helps" just as not doing it hurts.

If companies can package their shit in plastic yet you have to pay to use plastic then they should be charged too and should buy it back off you.

Not a bad idea. As someone who has done a certain amount of graphic design work and has had friends in the industry for a long time, I can tell you we've all wondered why there are no "green packaging" incentives.

HensVassal

seamus wrote: »

Because in general governments tend to be really bad at public service provision.

Your choice is to pay for a waste service that aims to be profitable, and therefore must be competitive. Or you can pay higher taxes for a service that has no incentive to be efficient and improve itself.

It's a balancing act. There are some services for which complete privatisation does more harm than good - defence, education, health, infrastructure. But plenty of other services for which it allows the service to be more effective - waste, electricity, public transport, etc.

Provided the state sets out a USO for these services and fills in the gaps where private operators won't, society benefits from for-profits activity in these services.

Profits aren't always measured in cash terms. Holland "profits" through improved public health, reduced emissions and tourism.

Exactly my point. Wouldn't a rail network provide the same "profits"? Village police provide a heightened sense of community and security?

It's easy to say that if you provide something for free then people won't value it, but that's just another cliche churned out by profit mongers

Allinall

HensVassal wrote: »

Mate,

The plastic bag charge is just another scam to make the consumer pay for everything. You think the "drop in the ocean" gesture of plastic bag reduction has the slightest impact on environmental improvement when everything you're putting in your little cloth "bag for life" is in a damn plastic container anyway? Your bottle of Fairy liquid? You jumbo family pack of 12 packs of Tayto, all themselves packaged into another plastic bag? Your plastic bottle of ketchup? Your 6-pack of half litre bottles of Coca-Cola, again themselves snuggly packaged into a plastic jacket? Your frozen peas? Your slab of smoked salmon? Your litre carton of milk? Your 6 yoghurts? Your plastic tub of olives? Your plastic pack of rigatoni? etc., etc?

In the US 35 BILLION plastic bottles are thrown away each year. Big impact your reusing a carrier bag is going to have on that.
If companies can package their shit in plastic yet you have to pay to use plastic then they should be charged too and should buy it back off you.

The plastic bag levy has had a huge impact on people's attitude towards recycling and re-use, as well as a positive impact on the visual appearance of our countryside.

As long as there are naysayers, it will be very difficult to change attitudes.

Companies do pay for plastic they generate.

HensVassal

Allinall wrote: »

Your post that I quoted.

Well I'm sorry for you then if that's what you took from it.

HensVassal

Why aren't there glass an plastic redemption machines in supermarkets like there are in Germany?

So many apologists for every single charge are real glass-half-empty people. Their first instinct when faced with any problem is to punish rather than incentivise to the point that everyone suffers....even the ones making the greatest effort.
If you got 15c back for every plastic bottle you put into the cruncher and 10c for every can and 5c for evey glass bottle/jar, the garbage cans around the city would be virtually empty and there'd be fcuk all being put on the street except maybe the odd bag of chicken bones, potato skins, teabags and eggshells.

mansize

HensVassal wrote: »

Why aren't there glass an plastic redemption machines in supermarkets like there are in Germany?

So many apologists for every single charge are real glass-half-empty people. Their first instinct when faced with any problem is to punish rather than incentivise to the point that everyone suffers....even the ones making the greatest effort.
If you got 15c back for every plastic bottle you put into the cruncher and 10c for every can and 5c for evey glass bottle/jar, the garbage cans around the city would be virtually empty and there'd be fcuk all being put on the street except maybe the odd bag of chicken bones, potato skins, teabags and eggshells.

You would have up add the charge at point of purchase like they do in Germany also

Allinall

HensVassal wrote: »

Well I'm sorry for you then if that's what you took from it.

Which "assholes" were you referring to?

Speedwell

HensVassal wrote: »

Why aren't there glass an plastic redemption machines in supermarkets like there are in Germany?<snip>
If you got 15c back for every plastic bottle you put into the cruncher and 10c for every can and 5c for evey glass bottle/jar, the garbage cans around the city would be virtually empty and there'd be fcuk all being put on the street except maybe the odd bag of chicken bones, potato skins, teabags and eggshells.

They do work. They really do. The problems with them in practice seem to be people putting things in that aren't the types of plastic or glass that can be recycled, and that the money back has to be charged as an extra up-front fee on each purchase. By the time you pay 15 cents for every plastic bottle etc., your grocery costs could be badly affected. I remember years ago when they tried this in America, my mother used to gripe that she could afford an extra gallon of milk or a chicken every week if she didn't have to pay for the recycling fee on each container and then take time to wash, sort, and return the items, and collect the rebate.

Graham

BattleCorp wrote: »

That might work in Dublin but the options down in rural Ireland aren't as good.

Naturally where the level of demand isn't sufficient to support multiple (any) operators, there should be alternatives and/or regulation to protect the services and cost of those services.

seamus

HensVassal wrote: »

If you got 15c back for every plastic bottle you put into the cruncher and 10c for every can and 5c for evey glass bottle/jar, the garbage cans around the city would be virtually empty and there'd be fcuk all being put on the street except maybe the odd bag of chicken bones, potato skins, teabags and eggshells.

Plastic and glass bottles don't go into my waste bin. And there's still plenty of rubbish in it. Not everything is recyclable.

If there was a rebate for returning glass and plastic, you're right, people would do it more often.

But you'd also pay at the point of sale for it, those 15c and 5c have to come from somewhere - if it's not from taxation then you'll have to pay it upfront before you buy.

So why not just pay to dispose of it instead? Rather than having a convoluted process where money is taken from you and then given back to you at a later stage and accounted for twenty times in between.

Plus you'd still have recycle bins full of cardboard and non-bottle plastics. So you haven't made anything simpler, in fact all you've done is made it even more complicated to recycle, which in turn will result in people not bothering.

HensVassal

mansize wrote: »

You would have up add the charge at point of purchase like they do in Germany also

I know.....but you've got your carrot and stick option right there. Put it in the cruncher you get your money back, throw it in a public bin and you've forfeited your dime. But you know what, a homeless person will gladly do a bit of recycling for the deposits that someone was too lazy to redeem.