Road tax while exporting car from UK

zilog_jones

I'm planning on buying a used car in NI over the weekend, and was wondering if road tax was something I need to worry about while up there?

I believe since 2014 they no longer have tax discs and tax is not transferred between owners - so when I buy the car it will have no tax. Is it something I should get sorted out if I want to drive the car within the UK, or should I be ok once I can prove I have just bought it and it is for permanent export? I take it I should be leaving NI ASAP?

To add to my confusion, the car is Band A in the UK (Toyota Prius), so tax is £0 - would I need to do anything anyway? It doesn't seem to mean it's exempt from road tax so I assume there is some sort of process still required to "tax" it.

CJhaughey

If you are buying it and driving straight over the border I think you should be OK, driving it around the North or the UK may be a lot harder and more likely to see you pulled and having to explain to a Police officer.
As long as you are insured and have proof of same you should be OK but it only takes one tough cop and your life could be difficult.

Charles Babbage

Do what people in the North do and drive on the back roads where there is no ANPR.

26000 Elephants

zilog_jones wrote: »

I'm planning on buying a used car in NI over the weekend, and was wondering if road tax was something I need to worry about while up there?

I believe since 2014 they no longer have tax discs and tax is not transferred between owners - so when I buy the car it will have no tax. Is it something I should get sorted out if I want to drive the car within the UK, or should I be ok once I can prove I have just bought it and it is for permanent export? I take it I should be leaving NI ASAP?

To add to my confusion, the car is Band A in the UK (Toyota Prius), so tax is £0 - would I need to do anything anyway? It doesn't seem to mean it's exempt from road tax so I assume there is some sort of process still required to "tax" it.

If its taxed, the car will show up as taxed on ANPR* so you wont be stopped specifically for that reason. Have a copy of your ferry booking and insurance cover note with you if you are stopped, and you wont have any issues.

zilog_jones

@26000 Elephants: I don't think you read my post at all (despite quoting the whole thing). I was in NI so there was no ferry involved, and road tax is no longer transferable between ownership in the UK so when I bought the car it had no tax.

I just drove straight home anyway, didn't have any trouble.

26000 Elephants

zilog_jones wrote: »

@26000 Elephants: I don't think you read my post at all (despite quoting the whole thing). I was in NI so there was no ferry involved, and road tax is no longer transferable between ownership in the UK so when I bought the car it had no tax.

I just drove straight home anyway, didn't have any trouble.

I was just trying to help you out bud. Thats all. Sorry it didnt meet your expectations. I think to state that I "didnt read your post at all" is grossly unfair.

I completely agree that I did not spot the bit about NI, focusing instead on the UK ( in the context of the part of the UK that involves a ferry to drive to) aspect. But how is the issue regarding having or not having a ferry ticket effect the advise of the post? If you needed a ferry, then its valid. If you dont need a ferry, then could you not have simply disregarded it?

I know road tax is no longer transferable. However, that means you cannot buy a car with 10 months tax and drive it for 10 months. The orevious owner claims a refund, and you apply for a new license. However, if you are simply buying a car in the UK with a valid license, and driving it immediately out of there ( where you have filled out the export section of the V5) then you should have no worries.

You still have not clarified whether the car was taxed or untaxed, which you did not clarify in the original post either. You said that (in the context of non-transferable tax) that "..so when I buy it it will not have tax". If you knew the car was untaxed, you could have simply said "It is untaxed" It still sounds like you are implying, because of the transfer, that the car is untaxed, even if it had been taxed to the end of the year.

I clearly stated in my response :

If its taxed, the car will show up as taxed on ANPR*

In this situation, you would have no issue. If the car was untaxed at the moment you bought it, then you have a problem. I'm sorry if that was not clear from the post.

Soarer

I'd the same issue getting a Yaris hybrid in London a few months ago.

No tax on the car, buying from a dealer, tax rate of £0 pa.

The dealer rang the DVLA and they said that since road tax doesn't apply to the hybrid, taxing it is just a technicality. So if I were to be stopped by the police, just explain the situation and they'd have no issue.

Didn't get stopped to test the theory, but the DVLA reckoned there shouldn't be an issue.

zilog_jones

26000 Elephants wrote: »

You still have not clarified whether the car was taxed or untaxed, which you did not clarify in the original post either. You said that (in the context of non-transferable tax) that "..so when I buy it it will not have tax". If you knew the car was untaxed, you could have simply said "It is untaxed" It still sounds like you are implying, because of the transfer, that the car is untaxed, even if it had been taxed to the end of the year.

My understanding is that if you buy a car in the UK (since 2014) it will have no road tax, and it is the new owner's responsibility to apply for road tax - and I don't believe that's particularly easy to do if you're not a UK resident. I'm not sure how you can "buy a car in the UK with a valid license" (assuming you mean road tax) if it's non-transferable - no one else (e.g. the dealer) can buy road tax for you any more.

26000 Elephants

zilog_jones wrote: »

My understanding is that if you buy a car in the UK (since 2014) it will have no road tax, and it is the new owner's responsibility to apply for road tax - and I don't believe that's particularly easy to do if you're not a UK resident. I'm not sure how you can "buy a car in the UK with a valid license" (assuming you mean road tax) if it's non-transferable - no one else (e.g. the dealer) can buy road tax for you any more.

Ok, I think I will leave it there, That's your belief, and I'm not going to say otherwise.

zilog_jones

It's not my belief, it is my understanding of the current rules as described here: https://www.gov.uk/vehicletaxrules

When you buy a vehicle, the tax or SORN doesn’t come with it.

But as others have said, it's not an issue if you're exporting the car as long as you're leaving the UK in a reasonable time frame (even though technically illegal) - which is what I did.

26000 Elephants

zilog_jones wrote: »

It's not my belief, it is my understanding...

yet your op..

zilog_jones wrote: »

I believe since 2014..... .

The reason I didn't want to engage further is that I believe you are simply being pedantic. If you understand everything so well, why the hell are you wasting peoples time? Fact is, you are not asking a question but merely seeking affirmation of your strongly held views.

If the car is taxed, then it will show up on ANPR as being taxed. Cops wont stop you.
If you wish to be pedantic about it, yes of course, technically the car is not taxed. But the DVLA have not been informed about it so....

If you are stopped by a cop, then he would need to be pretty pedantic as well to cause you a problem. And the meeting between Pedantic Plod and Pedantic Paddy in his Prius would result in comedy gold.

Please bring a dashcam next time you deliberately and with full knowledge drive a car illegally in the UK.

mgbgt1978

26000 Elephants wrote: »

If its taxed, the car will show up as taxed on ANPR* so you wont be stopped specifically for that reason. Have a copy of your ferry booking and insurance cover note with you if you are stopped, and you wont have any issues.

26000 Elephants wrote: »

I know road tax is no longer transferable. However, that means you cannot buy a car with 10 months tax and drive it for 10 months. The orevious owner claims a refund, and you apply for a new license. However, if you are simply buying a car in the UK with a valid license, and driving it immediately out of there ( where you have filled out the export section of the V5) then you should have no worries.

You still have not clarified whether the car was taxed or untaxed, which you did not clarify in the original post either. You said that (in the context of non-transferable tax) that "..so when I buy it it will not have tax". If you knew the car was untaxed, you could have simply said "It is untaxed" It still sounds like you are implying, because of the transfer, that the car is untaxed, even if it had been taxed to the end of the year.
If the car was untaxed at the moment you bought it, then you have a problem. I'm sorry if that was not clear from the post.

Any UK Car you buy cannot have any Tax on it as it "expires" with the previous owner. There is nothing more to clarify.

You only fill out the "Export Section" of the V5 where you are a UK Resident who is taking their own car out of the UK, i.e. exporting it. An Irish Resident cannot "export" a car from the UK (as far as the DVLA are concerned) as they cannot be the the registered UK owner.
The previous UK owner can, if they wish, send a letter to the DVLA informing them of the sale of the car to a non-resident who is taking it abroad. But, as the Irish Authorities will inform the DVLA that the car is now Irish registered there really is no point.
As the previous owner is entitled to claim back any Tax left on the car (complete months only) I would say that the minute the car is no longer theirs they would send in the relevant form.

zilog_jones

I actually filled out the V5C/4 and sent it off but the process didn't entirely make sense to me as the DVLA would have had no records of who I am. I guess the instructions should be clearer that it's only for UK residents.

26000 Elephants

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Any UK Car you buy cannot have any Tax on it as it "expires" with the previous owner. There is nothing more to clarify.

OK. Thanks for the heads up. I was under the impression that the law stated that it required "Transfer and Notification to DVLA" to trigger the cancellation of tax.


But you sound like you know what you are talking about!!

BTW - Section 11 is commonly used to notify the DVLA that a vehicle has been sold to a foreigner and is being exported. That way the buyer gets tokeep the V5/C ( not just the new keeper bit). If you know that this is not the case, how do you do it?

26000 Elephants

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

But, as the Irish Authorities will inform the DVLA that the car is now Irish registered there really is no point.

Can you point to a reference for that? It sounds unlikely that they would care what the DVLA thought of it.

26000 Elephants

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You only fill out the "Export Section" of the V5 where you are a UK Resident who is taking their own car out of the UK, i.e. exporting it. An Irish Resident cannot "export" a car from the UK (as far as the DVLA are concerned) as they cannot be the the registered UK owner.
The previous UK owner can, if they wish, send a letter to the DVLA informing them of the sale of the car to a non-resident who is taking it abroad. But, as the Irish Authorities will inform the DVLA that the car is now Irish registered there really is no point.
As the previous owner is entitled to claim back any Tax left on the car (complete months only) I would say that the minute the car is no longer theirs they would send in the relevant form.

OK, so the above is complete horse****.

From INS160 ( notes on vehicle transfer p.17) (selling to paddies)

You should complete Sections 6 and 10 with new keeper’s name and
address details. You will need to ask the new keeper to complete the V5C
with the date they intend to export the vehicle and to sign and date the
declaration. You should then detach Section 11 only and pass the
remainder of the V5C to the new keeper. You will then need to notify

link to INS160

zilog_jones

I think I'm even more confused now - I wonder if those instructions are still correct, considering that document is from 10 years ago?

When I bought the car I was just handed the V5C in full - no sections were filled in either by the seller or myself at the time of sale (I did Section 11 when I got home). I believe this is often the case when people buy cars in the UK for export to Ireland judging by other threads around here, but I guess it may not be the correct way.

I'm sure the NCTS are well used to registering used UK imports and have some way of notifying the DVLA appropriately...

mgbgt1978

I imported 5 cars in past 3 years from mainland UK. Each time I took the full V5C and neither myself nor the Sellers notified the DVLA.
I had no problems VRT'ing any of these cars, unlike a lot of people who only have the "export section" of the V5C etc.
Every one of these cars is now marked as "exported" on the DVLA site.
So, somebody over here is notifying the DVLA of the car's status.

26000 Elephants

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

I , unlike a lot of people who only have the "export section" of the V5C etc.

Why would they have it? They should have the whole V5, minus the export slip if the original keeper retained it to send to the DVLA.

Its the responsibility of the original keeper to notify the DVLA.

Did you find the reference to where the Irish notify the DVLA yet?

mgbgt1978

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Every one of these cars is now marked as "exported" on the DVLA site.
So, somebody over here is notifying the DVLA of the car's status.

Do you read anyone's posts ?
As far as I'm concerned the DVLA were notified by some Irish Authority. I couldn't care who it is, I am simply stating that 5 cars imported by myself are now marked as Exports by the DVLA and neither myself nor the Sellers had anything to do with this.
I couldn't be bothered to look for any reference for this as I have 1st hand experience of it.

As for the reference to INS 160 that is not Law, simply what the DVLA would like the Seller to do when selling to a non-resident.

As you weren't even aware that UK Motor Tax expires immediatedly upon change of ownership (and not after the DVLA are notified) I'll just keep doing things my way and let you do the same.

26000 Elephants

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned the DVLA were notified by some Irish Authority..

Oh thats ok then! As long as you think it, it must be the case.

As for the reference to INS 160 that is not Law,

But when sonething is written in a DVLA issued document - ah shure thats not the law at all....


You are gas. You really are.

26000 Elephants

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Do you read anyone's posts ?

Ugghh....

As you weren't even aware that UK Motor Tax expires immediatedly upon change of ownership (and not after the DVLA are notified) I'll just keep doing things my way and let you do the same.

You insist on being a pedantic eejit. Where did I say that this is not the case? What I did say was that if the car was taxed at the time of the transfer then it will appear on ANPR as taxed and you will have no issue with being stopped for that reason. The ANPR database will only get updated when the dvla is NOTIFIED. Up to this point, as far as plod is concerned, the car is taxed and is of no further interest to them.

Why cant you get that into your head? And that was the OP's original point. Can he get the car out? Answer - yes, if it is currently taxed.

Esel

An elephant never forgets... :rolleyes:

CiniO

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

The previous UK owner can, if they wish, send a letter to the DVLA informing them of the sale of the car to a non-resident who is taking it abroad. But, as the Irish Authorities will inform the DVLA that the car is now Irish registered there really is no point.

And what's the point in informing DVLA at all?
Whether by previous owner, or Irish buyer or by Irish authorities?
What happens if DVLA are not informed?

zilog_jones

If the DVLA aren't notified about the permanent export and there is no SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) then they can only assume it's up to no good.

CiniO

zilog_jones wrote: »

If the DVLA aren't notified about the permanent export and there is no SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) then they can only assume it's up to no good.

So it's in the previous registered owner's interest to have the car marked by DVLA as exported.

Does SORN in UK work similar to out off road declarations, that they have to be repeated once a year? Or can it be declared SORN once and forgotten about?

zilog_jones

https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification

No renewal required, unless changing ownership.

darragh o meara

CiniO wrote: »

And what's the point in informing DVLA at all?
Whether by previous owner, or Irish buyer or by Irish authorities?
What happens if DVLA are not informed?

The UK owner will get a refund for any tax left on the car at the time of sale therefore giving them a good reason to inform the DVLA. The prev. owner is also still responsible for any speeding fines etc.the car racks up on the way to the ferry so that's another.

If you register the car here, the DVLA are notified as part of the process as the car needs to be deregistered in the UK before it can be registered here. If you don't re register, the previous owner still gets the correspondence I believe, at least it was in the case of a car I bought a few years ago and never bothered to re-register.

savagethegoat

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Ok, I think I will leave it there, That's your belief, and I'm not going to say otherwise.

mr Jones is 100% correct and you , well, aren't.

26000 Elephants

savagethegoat wrote: »

mr Jones is 100% correct and you , well, aren't.

Real comedy is not when you laugh at an idiot, it's when the idiot laughs at you.