Eyre square redevelopment

Mrs OBumble

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Edit: I would say the picture was taken from the Imperial Hotel also the colours were almost certainly added in afterwards.

I would say that it was taken from outside (or maybe even inside) the Skef, and that the bottom of St Patrick's Avenue is the houses at right-angles on the left side.

That means half of today's grass area is being used as a cattle-market.

Agree that the colours would have been added later - but I think they are an accurate representation of what the ground would have looked like with that many cows standing on it! Even the grassy area to the south would not have been a pleasant picnic spot given the likely aromas!

While the detail of today's needs are different (we buy our cow cooked inside a burger bun, instead of on the hoof), there is a certain synergy in the underlying land-use.

galwaycyclist

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I would say that it was taken from outside (or maybe even inside) the Skef, and that the bottom of St Patrick's Avenue is the houses at right-angles on the left side.

That means half of today's grass area is being used as a cattle-market.

Agree that the colours would have been added later - but I think they are an accurate representation of what the ground would have looked like with that many cows standing on it! Even the grassy area to the south would not have been a pleasant picnic spot given the likely aromas!

While the detail of today's needs are different (we buy our cow cooked inside a burger bun, instead of on the hoof), there is a certain synergy in the underlying land-use.

The cattle and sheep market was at the top of Eyre Square and could go up Prospect Hill. There was a pig market held outside the Imperial.

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/24309/sheep-fair-eyre-square

This is a picture taken from same perspective as your one but shows Prospect hill in the back ground

http://lawrencecollection.com/photo/fair-dayeyre-square/

Moo Moo Land

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I would say that it was taken from outside (or maybe even inside) the Skef, and that the bottom of St Patrick's Avenue is the houses at right-angles on the left side.

No it's taken from a building between the Imperial Hotel and Dunnes. Probably above Supermacs or O'Flahertys chemist. The picture is mostly of the old market area with only a proportion of today's pedestrian Eyre Sq (or Uluru as I like to call it).

nicki11

bobbyss wrote: »

Going back 100 years to review usage of the square proves very little. How about a source prior to that, say 100, 200 or more years before that? What would that show? I don't know. Perhaps an open field with trees and so on.
We are talking about the needs of people in 2016.

And apparently we need grass, I better tell those starving orphaned homeless children they are ok because they have grass. Why do you keep insisting on the grass its not even the point of the thread the point it the council over spent and now they have to draw from other resources to pay it off. It sucks but if thats what they have to do I'd rather they paid it off instead of going bankrupt like American councils. Once they have more money they can improve things, until then we have a nice park -that they will hopefully remove the barriers from soon - that everyone can enjoy.

bobbyss

nicki11 wrote: »

And apparently we need grass, I better tell those starving orphaned homeless children they are ok because they have grass. Why do you keep insisting on the grass its not even the point of the thread the point it the council over spent and now they have to draw from other resources to pay it off. It sucks but if thats what they have to do I'd rather they paid it off instead of going bankrupt like American councils. Once they have more money they can improve things, until then we have a nice park -that they will hopefully remove the barriers from soon - that everyone can enjoy.

Why? Because I was responding to a point made about grass.

nicki11

bobbyss wrote: »

Why? Because I was responding to a point made about grass.

No because you stated the historical use of the park doesn't matter today and yet you insist its called Kennedy park and the big green even though no one calls it that and that the historical grass has always been important to everyones enjoyment of the park. Then you said its today thats important contradicting your own point. The thread is also about the council decision is it too much to ask that we discuss the money now, we've discussed the green area for pages.

bobbyss

nicki11 wrote: »

No because you stated the historical use of the park doesn't matter today and yet you insist its called Kennedy park and the big green even though no one calls it that and that the historical grass has always been important to everyones enjoyment of the park. Then you said its today thats important contradicting your own point. The thread is also about the council decision is it too much to ask that we discuss the money now, we've discussed the green area for pages.

With the greatest of respect I think you are all confused. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I gave any opinion on the name of the place? That doesn't interest me too much. But if I did, please refer me. You must be mixing posts up.

nicki11

I meant Whereisgalway sorry

Whereisgalway

nicki11 wrote: »

I meant Whereisgalway sorry

I'm not insisting it be called Kennedy park, one of the mods changed it. I only highlighted it's official name when another post sprouted on about how it's a town square & it's took off from there with posters trying there best to take the thread off topic

But your right as you said this thread is also about the council decision is it too much to ask that we discuss the money now, we've discussed the green area for pages.

To normal people, yes it is too much to discuss something that's done, dusted, paid for.

To angry internet comnenters, there's no such thing as spilt milk, and no one is going to stop them whinging over it.

J.pilkington

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To angry internet comnenters, there's no such thing as spilt milk, and no one is going to stop them whinging over it.

Exactly, boards Galway has a pretty limited reach(few hundred to a thousand?) so the OP continuously preaching about the city council to the same audience is achieving zero, if the OP was that serious about it they would get off their armchair and head down to the city hall with a placard or to make a real difference put themselves up for election next time, but that takes effort and it can be cold outside

pure.conya

biko wrote: »

Thread renamed (for a ittle while) so there is no confusion
Or maybe added confusion
Either works

Whereisgalway wrote: »

Thought a moderators jobs was to keep threads on topic

the title change is just a sly form of censorship

gordongekko wrote: »

I sat on it today it's great try it or just complain about nothing it's up to you

according to one poster a few pages back the 3 weeks of overpriced crap for sale during the christmas market superceeds being able to enjoy chilling on the grass in the centre of the city on a beautiful summers day (if we're lucky enough to get it of course)

Deleted User wrote: »

To normal people, yes it is too much to discuss something that's done, dusted, paid for.

To angry internet comnenters, there's no such thing as spilt milk, and no one is going to stop them whinging over it.

the whole Eyre Square debacle is far more serious than spilt milk. you're apathy is exactly what allows certain people create such an expensive mess (with our money, not their own btw!) in the first place.

Mrs OBumble

Whereisgalway wrote: »

I'm not insisting it be called Kennedy park, one of the mods changed it. I only highlighted it's official name when another post sprouted on about how it's a town square & it's took off from there with posters trying there best to take the thread off topic

But your right as you said this thread is also about the council decision is it too much to ask that we discuss the money now, we've discussed the green area for pages.

Ok.

So let's discuss the money.

Earlier you said

Before anyone can come up with solutions questions need to be answered & then answers questions. How was tender awarded? What was the process? Was there a check into the builder? Who carried this out? Who were these consultants? How were they picked? What did they consult on? Who decided to stagnated the loan out over 20+years? How did they decide this? Just a few of the questions that no one wants to give the answers to

Do you think that anyone where is able to answer those questions for you? Why not submit a FOI request for the reports which I'm sure have been done following investigations into these very questions.

Do you really have so little understanding of project / public sector financing that you're surprised the loan to service the cost was spread over 20 years? What do you think that the council should have done instead?

Moo Moo Land

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you think that anyone where is able to answer those questions for you? Why not submit a FOI request for the reports which I'm sure have been done following investigations into these very questions.

Do you really have so little understanding of project / public sector financing that you're surprised the loan to service the cost was spread over 20 years? What do you think that the council should have done instead?

No offence but that is an arrogant and flippant response. FOI request? You're naive.
The people of Galway deserve to know exactly how the council wasted so much money on the disaster that was the Eyre Sq Revamp project.

J.pilkington

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

No offence but that is an arrogant and flippant response. FOI request? You're naive.
The people of Galway deserve to know exactly how the council wasted so much money on the disaster that was the Eyre Sq Revamp project.

Ah come on, Read back over the thread!

Plenty of posters went to the effort of pointing the OP in the right direction but it seems that the OP (and you) doesnt actually want to do anything (and expects someone else to do all of the investigations) other than continuously asking the same question on an Internet forum. In fact it's a kick in the teeth to the posters who went to the effort of outlining how to get the info that the OP (and you) are ignoring their replies. That is a real lazy armchair form of protesting

Moo Moo Land

J.pilkington wrote: »

Read back over the thread!

Plenty of posters pointed the OP in the right direction but it seems that the OP (and you) don't actually want to do anything (and expect someone else to do it) other than continuously asking the same question on an Internet forum. That is a real lazy armchair form of protesting

What do we elect councillors and TDs for?

galwaycyclist

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

No offence but that is an arrogant and flippant response. FOI request? You're naive.
The people of Galway deserve to know exactly how the council wasted so much money on the disaster that was the Eyre Sq Revamp project.

Do you mean the council or the council executive? I would be extremely surprised if there were any councillors involved in reviewing any of the tenders or drawing up any of the contracts. In fact I would bet that if any councillors started asking questions on such matters those questions would be rejected on grounds of "commercial sensitivity".

If you want to know who signed off on what money then you will need to go the FOI route.

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

What do we elect councillors and TDs for?

That is precisely the point. They have very little real power unless one of them happens to be a minister and also in the right department.

J.pilkington

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

What do we elect councillors and TDs for?

Not to read boards i hope. Go talk to them

Moo Moo Land

J.pilkington wrote: »

Not to read boards i hope. Go talk to them

We have almost zero accountability in Ireland when it comes to public sector spending.
When Whereisgalway stated that there should be an investigation on the massive Eyre Square waste and overspend, Mrs O'Bumble replied "I totally agree that the massive cost over-run should never have been allowed to happen. But given that it did, there's not much point harping on about that now: it doesn't fix the problem, or pay the debt."

When you have people criticising other people for simply wanting accountability, you know we have problems. The same happened over Irish Water on a national scale but thankfully the protest movement (and votes) forced the politicians to take stock of their disaster.

Moo Moo Land

I cant post url links...
thejournal.ie - galway-city-council-to-pay-e1-5-million-in-legal-costs-over-eyre-square-row-379886-Mar2012/

Fine Gael’s Conneely had called for a full investigation into the matter but the PAC chairman John McGuinness noted that the comptroller and auditor general does not audit the accounts of city councils.

“It is likely that this matter is outside our remit and we cannot follow up on expenditure by local authorities,” he said at a committee meeting last year.

However, he said this is a matter that he has raised on a number of occasions.

“There is no control of local authority – how they operate, the way they spend or how they pass the buck to legal advisors,” he said. “There is no common sense, no business acumen and no management applied to the work they do.

“There were gigantic errors made on this project which could have been avoided with a proper management structure. Now, €1.5 million has been paid on something that should have been resolved but the council were unable and unwilling to do so.”

>> Change the rule Fine Gael - where is the new politics?

Torch & pitchforks! Get your torch & pitchfork here! 3 euro each or both for a fiver! Torch & pitchfork.....

Mrs OBumble

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

the PAC chairman John McGuinness noted that the comptroller and auditor general does not audit the accounts of city councils.

....

“There is no control of local authority – how they operate, the way they spend or how they pass the buck to legal advisors,” he said. “There is no common sense, no business acumen and no management applied to the work they do.

If that is true, then why the **** hasn't it been raised and fixed a long time ago? Why have people continued to vote for TDs who don't get it fixed?

Why are we focussing on something as trivial as a park upgrade, when the full scope of local authority spending is huge?

Whereisgalway

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If that is true, then why the **** hasn't it been raised and fixed a long time ago? Why have people continued to vote for TDs who don't get it fixed?

Why are we focussing on something as trivial as a park upgrade, when the full scope of local authority spending is huge?

Yea have to start small, create awareness and build from there. Eyre square/JFK is tangible, it's right in the middle of the city centre, it's seen and passed through by 1000's of people every day. The more people that pass through it and know that this is not €15+ million well spent the better

J.pilkington

Whereisgalway wrote: »

Yea have to start small, create awareness and build from there. Eyre square/JFK is tangible, it's right in the middle of the city centre, it's seen and passed through by 1000's of people every day. The more people that pass through it and know that this is not €15+ million well spent the better

Again why don't you head down with a placard and some saucepans. I don't understand how constantly asking the same question(that's all you have done!) over and over on a small regional forum on the corner of the Internet is going to make any difference

Moo Moo Land

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If that is true, then why the **** hasn't it been raised and fixed a long time ago? Why have people continued to vote for TDs who don't get it fixed?

Why are we focussing on something as trivial as a park upgrade, when the full scope of local authority spending is huge?

A1. Because most people in Ireland have succumbed to learned helplessness e.g. "I totally agree that the massive cost over-run should never have been allowed to happen. But given that it did, there's not much point harping on about that now: it doesn't fix the problem, or pay the debt."

A2. €15,000,000 is not trivial. I believe the actual cost was 15 times the original estimate.

xtradel

Whereisgalway wrote: »

Yea have to start small, create awareness and build from there. Eyre square/JFK is tangible, it's right in the middle of the city centre, it's seen and passed through by 1000's of people every day. The more people that pass through it and know that this is not €15+ million well spent the better

Occupy Galway Part 2?

xtradel

xtradel wrote: »

Occupy Galway Part 2?

Occupy 2: the Rightwing taxpayers strike back!

I can see where this is going. Down the same road that the Western Rail Corridor threads go. A bunch of activists set up an echo chamber thread to "educate" us sheeple, "the people", about their "true evil" and how we all must wake up and kill it with fire. (or not. they usually leave out the last part, the bit where they suggest any viable alternative arrangement, usually just say "do it better with *insert desired morals which sound good but are actually wishy washy nothings*.)

Ye want your ranty rant, grand. I'm out.

pure.conya

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If that is true, then why the **** hasn't it been raised and fixed a long time ago? Why have people continued to vote for TDs who don't get it fixed?

Why are we focussing on something as trivial as a park upgrade, when the full scope of local authority spending is huge?

WHY? Because of apethetic people like you that would rather people shut up and put up with gross incompetance than challenge or heaven forbid even enquire or give out about it online!

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

A1. Because most people in Ireland have succumbed to learned helplessness e.g. "I totally agree that the massive cost over-run should never have been allowed to happen. But given that it did, there's not much point harping on about that now: it doesn't fix the problem, or pay the debt."

A2. €15,000,000 is not trivial. I believe the actual cost was 15 times the original estimate.

arah it's only spilt milk, get over it lol

xtradel wrote: »

Occupy Galway Part 2?

Most of what Occupy highlighted has been proven right and although they were there for 200+ days it only took a few hours and a handful of men to remove it and restore the square to the very same state it was on before they ever arrived on the scene. We could do a lot worse than have an occupy 2

Whereisgalway

J.pilkington wrote: »

Again why don't you head down with a placard and some saucepans. I don't understand how constantly asking the same question(that's all you have done!) over and over on a small regional forum on the corner of the Internet is going to make any difference

I don't understand your negativity because that all you contribute, no one make you read or open this thread,

U prob would had said Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus was too small a act but look how that turned out.

pure.conya

Whereisgalway wrote: »

I don't understand your negativity because that all you contribute, no one make you read or open this thread,

U prob would had said Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus was too small a act but look how that turned out.

never underestimate how quick the ignorant will start roaring abuse at those who challenge their limited understanding of an issue lol