The Kingston story: Bidders fail to pay up for auctioned cows

BoatMad

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

11.4 bn from borrowings according to Karl Whelans analysis.

yes but that was via " norma"l exchequer resources, not all of which were borrowings, but given the size of the deficit at the time, they were certainly re-financed by borrowing in future years

however Karl says

"However, there are no particular sovereign bond issues or slices of the borrowings from the troika that are specifically earmarked “bank debt.”

this is because in reality none of the Troika money was used to bail out the banks, it couldnt be , because the state was bust nit the banks in reality and its was the state that needed all the emergency finance.

as I said the Troika money was not used to bail the banks, nor in fact was " taxpayers " money used also

Base price

OttoPilot wrote: »

So you have a personally guaranteed loan which you can't pay back and you're willing to let the bank come after your personal assets?

Nah, the bank didn't require a personal guarantee at the time :D

BoatMad

Base price wrote: »

Nah, the bank didn't require a personal guarantee at the time :D

I dont thank we are actually debating YOUR particular situation , we are debating the situation where a gamer gets into a position where the debts are hopelessly big and any recovery virtually impossible.

In that case the assets need to be sold , its the only bargaining chip left short of bankruptcy

Base price

BoatMad wrote: »

You can engage in slagging me off all you like, it sdoesnt do your arguments any good at all.

the fact is the point being advanced is that it would be stupid not to dispose of any asset outside of say the family home in order to discharge a judgement against you. It would be silly to attempt to hold on to land, and then to suffer the actions of an enforced bankruptcy


oh , I suspect Ive be on and worked a hell of lot more farms then you have , keyboard warrior. I did not explicitly lay out what I provided to large farms and the agri sector as I've no wish to identify myself to the likes of you , thanks

play the ball not the man - thanks

Oops, didn't mean you take my arguments personally.
However - Woohoo - first time ever that I have been called a "keyboard warrior". Do I get a medal or trophy?
A bunch of flowers would suffice as others regard me as not high maintenance

BoatMad

Base price wrote: »

Oops, didn't mean you take my arguments personally.
However - Woohoo - first time ever that I have been called a "keyboard warrior". Do I get a medal or trophy?
A bunch of flowers would suffice as others regard me as not high maintenance

fine , I'm looking for a bunch of virtual flowers paid for by virtual money to send to you and I promise not to take any more of your arguments too seriously :pac:

greysides

Base price wrote: »

TBH maybe you would be better off providing information on the GLAS or another Boards wildlife thread. Your expertises appear to specialise in wildlife/animal tracking and feed software.
TBH I don't know what feed "software" is but assume it's a cooked "soft" grain (wheat, barley, rice ??) to aid lower gut digestion and therefore classified as feed "software"

Base price wrote: »

Oops, didn't mean you take my arguments personally.

It would be hard not to take that 'argument' personally!

BoatMad wrote: »

fine , I'm looking for a bunch of virtual flowers paid for by virtual money to send to you and I promise not to take any more of your arguments too seriously :pac:

Now, would you two kindly go to bed before I take out the big stick!

BoatMad

Now, would you two kindly go to bed before I take out the big stick!

yes boss, I know when a foreclosure is imminent :D:D

Base price

greysides wrote: »

It would be hard not to take that 'argument' personally!





Now, would you two kindly go to bed before I take out the big stick!

Sorry. I honestly didn't mean to cause any personal offence. It's just that the subject matter is contentious to me and other's within my circle.

Geuze

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Under the Troika bailout programme 10 billion was introduced into the Irish banks with a further contingency of 25 billion

It would be great if the banking crisis cost 10 bn.

The bad news is that the gross cost to the State was 63-64 bn.

Heartbreaking, sickening.

Okay, in return we now own several banks, which have or may be sold off eventually.

BoatMad

t's just that the subject matter is contentious to me and other's within my circle.

with respect , its contentious to anyone in business. anyone dealing with banks knows that you can rapidly find a situation that is getting out off hand and you opinion of the solution and the banks can rapidly diverge.

Everyone here has sympathy with the Kingstons and another farmer or anyone in trouble . The issue is what to do and how you and the bank deal with the situation

There isn't easy solutions or glib one liners.

Geuze

Geuze

BoatMad wrote: »

this is because in reality none of the Troika money was used to bail out the banks, it couldnt be , because the state was bust nit the banks in reality and its was the state that needed all the emergency finance.

as I said the Troika money was not used to bail the banks, nor in fact was " taxpayers " money used also

Note that we did borrow from the troika, we borrowed from both the IMF and the EU funds EFSM/EFSF.

So we borrowed in a bail-out, and we used some funds to recapitalise several banks.

Base price

greysides wrote: »

Now, would you two kindly go to bed before I take out the big stick!

As an aside - your not suggesting that we go to bed together :eek:

Night

Geuze

BoatMad wrote: »

"However, there are no particular sovereign bond issues or slices of the borrowings from the troika that are specifically earmarked “bank debt.”

this is because in reality none of the Troika money was used to bail out the banks, it couldnt be , because the state was bust nit the banks in reality and its was the state that needed all the emergency finance.

as I said the Troika money was not used to bail the banks, nor in fact was " taxpayers " money used also

It is correct that there is no specific Irish public debt labelled "loans to inject into banks".

However, of course a chuck of public borrowing was used to pay for the 64 bn injected into banks.

We didn't have 64 bn handy, so we had to borrow much of it.

BoatMad

Geuze wrote: »

It would be great if the banking crisis cost 10 bn.

The bad news is that the gross cost to the State was 63-64 bn.

Heartbreaking, sickening.

Okay, in return we now own several banks, which have or may be sold off eventually.

I never viewed the banking crisis as having a big impact on the state finances

the issue that brought the Troika to our doors was the collapse of the public finances due to a reliance on a single sectoral set of taxes whilst for years engaged in giveaway policies that exploded the costs of the states services

Either one would have been manageable by the state ( i.e. the exchequer deficit or the bank collapse) , but both together was bad luck and a killer blow.

remember of that 60 odd billon, 30 plus is " funny " money , the NPRF fund is quite likely to show a profit , certainly BofI will as will AIB in time and even PTSB looks like it might turn a profit

the whole thing though , is that the public anger was mis directed at the banks and away from the central fact that we demanded an increasingly expensive and enlarged public sector , while not being prepared to pay for it with our taxes

Farmer Ed

BoatMad wrote: »

I never viewed the banking crisis as having a big impact on the state finances

the issue that brought the Troika to our doors was the collapse of the public finances due to a reliance on a single sectoral set of taxes whilst for years engaged in giveaway policies that exploded the costs of the states services

Either one would have been manageable by the state ( i.e. the exchequer deficit or the bank collapse) , but both together was bad luck and a killer blow.

remember of that 60 odd billon, 30 plus is " funny " money , the NPRF fund is quite likely to show a profit , certainly BofI will as will AIB in time and even PTSB looks like it might turn a profit

the whole thing though , is that the public anger was mis directed at the banks and away from the central fact that we demanded an increasingly expensive and enlarged public sector , while not being prepared to pay for it with our taxes

You may be correct about the banks paying back a profit to the state. Bur don't forget how the banks make that profit. Either way Joe citizen has to pay for there mistakes. Meanwhile the legal advisers to Anglo make a fortune advising nama. Joe citizen will somehow end up with that bill to I'm sure.

handlemaster

http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/damning-animal-welfare-report-on-farm-of-irelands-fittest-family-at-centre-of-bank-debts-auction-34639403.html


All not so rosy in the garden

RightTurnClyde

handlemaster wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/damning-animal-welfare-report-on-farm-of-irelands-fittest-family-at-centre-of-bank-debts-auction-34639403.html


All not so rosy in the garden

Is it me or is that sheriff coming across as being very unprofessional. The auction was a shambles and now she's releasing vets reports. She seems to be making it personal against the Kingstons. How is releasing a report like that, maximizing the value of what she's selling? I thought that was her job.

freedominacup

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Is it me or is that sheriff coming across as being very unprofessional. The auction was a shambles and now she's releasing vets reports. She seems to be making it personal against the Kingstons. How is releasing a report like that, maximizing the value of what she's selling? I thought that was her job.

Lots of media management being attempted by everyone here.

Mehaffey1

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Is it me or is that sheriff coming across as being very unprofessional. The auction was a shambles and now she's releasing vets reports. She seems to be making it personal against the Kingstons. How is releasing a report like that, maximizing the value of what she's selling? I thought that was her job.

This whole case has just become a soap opera really from start to finish, you couldn't make it up.

Sure I'll sell you my used car there it only needs four new tyres, brakes replaced, two holes in the exhaust fixed...

keep going

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

This whole case has just become a soap opera really from start to finish, you couldn't make it up.

Sure I'll sell you my used car there it only needs four new tyres, brakes replaced, two holes in the exhaust fixed...

i was thinking a few days ago what was the situation like in new zealand as regards banks and farmers and i was wondering what you would say about the crack over there

st1979

Yes its a sad soap opera and seems vindictive by the sheriff. But in fairness its a female sheriff and most of the fairer sex I know can be vindictive and will happily cut their nose off despite their face to prove a point.



Runs for cover!!!


I don't think this is the thread for a discussion of alleged female characteristics. A male sheriff could well have done exactly the same things.

You knew the effect of what you were posting and still posted it!

G.

Mehaffey1

st1979 wrote: »

Yes its a sad soap opera and seems vindictive by the sheriff. But in fairness its a female sheriff and most of the fairer sex I know can be vindictive and will happily cut their nose off despite their face to prove a point.



Runs for cover!!!

Shots fired...mark hit though

Mehaffey1

keep going wrote: »

i was thinking a few days ago what was the situation like in new zealand as regards banks and farmers and i was wondering what you would say about the crack over there

At the moment from what I see its the Lower Order Sharemilkers being hit hardest. 20% of milk cheque at sub $4 forecast is sweet nothing when paying for staff, diesel, power and maintenance on their own machinery.

Many LOSM walking away from it or stepping down to contract milking for those who have an understanding farm owner.

No real news of banks calling in loans. News this week of Fonterra losing an ever increasing number of suppliers which they were going to regardless of payout due to the fact they are pretty useless in general.

whelan2

Article there from the indo says there are 5 other similar cases, why all the publicity on this 1 case?

Sam Kade

whelan2 wrote: »

Article there from the indo says there are 5 other similar cases, why all the publicity on this 1 case?

The media don't know who they are yet, they'll swoop down like vultures when they find out, no doubt.

Brown Podzol

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Is it me or is that sheriff coming across as being very unprofessional. The auction was a shambles and now she's releasing vets reports. She seems to be making it personal against the Kingstons. How is releasing a report like that, maximizing the value of what she's selling? I thought that was her job.

She'd never be doing it for the money?

"Each sheriff is obliged to establish, finance and supply his or her own office. In respect of goods and property seizures, they are paid a fee known as ‘poundage’, which is set at 5% of the first €5,500 seized and 2.5% of the rest."

Won't do too badly if the farm is sold.

BoatMad

a loss of a business is tragic, but maybe its for the best . living under the stress of the situation can seriously damage your health . a fresh start maybe away from farming might be seen with a sense of relief

satguy

That sheriff is not good at her job,, went about this all wrong, as did the bank..

The sheriff and the bank officials should be sacked,, maybe some charges brought against the sheriff, or some big fine..

BoatMad

satguy wrote: »

That sheriff is not good at her job,, went about this all wrong, as did the bank..

The sheriff and the bank officials should be sacked,, maybe some charges brought against the sheriff, or some big fine..

why what should the bank have done ?