The Kingston story: Bidders fail to pay up for auctioned cows

XR3i

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Please explain.

arra i got double-crossed myself, not by a foreign bank or anything, my own auntie

but while it's simialr it's the same, if someone had bid for the land then refused to pay it would be still there,

flutered

paddysdream wrote: »

What are the differences?
Not siding with the "vulture" fund but if you overreach then be prepared to take the consequences if you fail.
A lot of this is similar to the water charges hysteria.Somebody else is wrong,creaming it off ,fooling the poor sods,has the inside track etc etc.
Human nature to look for someone or something else to blame when you f@ck up.Was always a great believer in holding your hand up,admitting you may have been wrong and getting on with it.

both this and the water charges have one thing in common, someone is been gouged, iw in its present form will never do what it is intended to do, never mind make money, enough of iw, back on track

flutered

blue5000 wrote: »

I think 20 you've started to hit the nail on the head, part of the problem here is the unequal distribution of wealth. The rich (bankers, vulture funds LGs DO'Bs of this world) are getting richer all the time at our (the little ppl, peasants/serfs/labourers) expense.

the small guy is caught by the connoblers, the developer and the banker are a different kettle of fish, they can divert assets, our assets are help by the very people that we bailed outwe have to keep shelling out and keep smiling, after all we have bailed out both, then how come we are not entitled to some comeback

freedominacup

cjpm wrote: »

Few mentions of vulture funds buying loans for between 15 - 50% of the loan value.

I would be completely shocked if those loans were sold at such a discount considering the bank had rock solid security on 170 acres. Loan was for 2.4 million. Land in Nohaval 10k per acre minimum. That's 1.7 million not including yard sheds etc

They have a cast iron guarantee that they would get at least 1.7 million back.

Someone here mentioned that Mr Kingston offered them 1.2m to write off the debt. There was no way in hell they would accept an offer of 1.2 million if they are guaranteed 1.7 minimum.

It depends on who is offering. There was a case local to here and we'd all do the deal if it was offered. I don't know what sort of vehicle the purchaser used but he paid a bit more than Kingstons owed for a piece of property at the height of the boom. That was taken over by a receiver this time last year with no repayments ever made on it and around the time Kingstons were kicked off their land our boy bought his property back from the receiver for around 5c (five) in the euro not fifty cent, five cent. The kicker is that if he had decided to pay the loan off on a Mon morning he'd have accumulated the cash by around teatime on Tuesday morning in an average week. I didn't hear one voice raised in condemnation on here at the time about how much this deal was costing the rest of us despite the fact that paying off this loan would be no more to him than a tank of milk was to Kingstons . The sale featured in national papers both times so ye can't say ye didn't know about it. A bit less hypocrisy please or do ye also believe in socialisation for the wealthy only.

valtra2

Greed is a terrible thing

jaymla627

freedominacup wrote: »

It depends on who is offering. There was a case local to here and we'd all do the deal if it was offered. I don't know what sort of vehicle the purchaser used but he paid a bit more than Kingstons owed for a piece of property at the height of the boom. That was taken over by a receiver this time last year with no repayments ever made on it and around the time Kingstons were kicked off their land our boy bought his property back from the receiver for around 5c (five) in the euro not fifty cent, five cent. The kicker is that if he had decided to pay the loan off on a Mon morning he'd have accumulated the cash by around teatime on Tuesday morning in an average week. I didn't hear one voice raised in condemnation on here at the time about how much this deal was costing the rest of us despite the fact that paying off this loan would be no more to him than a tank of milk was to Kingstons . The sale featured in national papers both times so ye can't say ye didn't know about it. A bit less hypocrisy please or do ye also believe in socialisation for the wealthy

Take a look at the amount of evictions going through the courts at the minute, families getting threw out of their homes, it's happening on masse every week.....
Why everybody is getting wound up about a single dairy farmer down in Cork is laughable, if your lucky to have "pull" in this country you'll get away with the above no bother, the other 99% of the population just have to suck it up, it's always been the way and I can't see it changing

gordongekko

flutered wrote: »

the small guy is caught by the connoblers, the developer and the banker are a different kettle of fish, they can divert assets, our assets are help by the very people that we bailed outwe have to keep shelling out and keep smiling, after all we have bailed out both, then how come we are not entitled to some comeback

How much did we spend bailing out this DUTCH bank?

jaymla627

gordongekko wrote: »

How much did we spend bailing out this DUTCH bank?

Noting has been spent yet, their is them pesky promissory notes that put all this debt on the long finger though

Farmer Ed

freedominacup wrote: »

It depends on who is offering. There was a case local to here and we'd all do the deal if it was offered. I don't know what sort of vehicle the purchaser used but he paid a bit more than Kingstons owed for a piece of property at the height of the boom. That was taken over by a receiver this time last year with no repayments ever made on it and around the time Kingstons were kicked off their land our boy bought his property back from the receiver for around 5c (five) in the euro not fifty cent, five cent. The kicker is that if he had decided to pay the loan off on a Mon morning he'd have accumulated the cash by around teatime on Tuesday morning in an average week. I didn't hear one voice raised in condemnation on here at the time about how much this deal was costing the rest of us despite the fact that paying off this loan would be no more to him than a tank of milk was to Kingstons . The sale featured in national papers both times so ye can't say ye didn't know about it. A bit less hypocrisy please or do ye also believe in socialisation for the wealthy only.

Spot on! And what about our good friend Denis O Brien. Is there one law for some and another law for others? I challenge anyone to read this link and still come to the conclusion that everyone gets treated the same in this country.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/03/05/denis-obrien-fine-gael-and-the-water-meter-deal/

TPF2012

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/peter-kingston-my-father-does-have-the-funds-to-buy-the-cows-as-sale-falls-through/

kk.man

paddysdream wrote: »

Rubbish.
If I borrow your tractor and then refuse to give it back until it suits me should all my neighbours help and sympathise with me?
Those Dutch "pricks" were doing their job same as the sheriff ,guards there on duty (pictures in paper) etc etc.
And yes it prob. is coming to a townland near me. What should I do ?Stand in solidarity with someone who has messed about for years,paid no one they could avoid and when they couldn't avoid it,paid as little and late as possible?
Not a hope
.Genuine hard luck cases are very rare and they deserve help but people who borrow millions and then it all goes wrong ?Would people feel the same about all those builders/developers who went under a few years ago?Just cause its farmers that are feeling the cold wind of reality at this time is no reason to lose our reason

Personally I wouldn't buy at a distress sale...but paddy's dream is correct and right

Figerty

jaymla627 wrote: »

Take a look at the amount of evictions going through the courts at the minute, families getting threw out of their homes, it's happening on masse every week.....
Why everybody is getting wound up about a single dairy farmer down in Cork is laughable, if your lucky to have "pull" in this country you'll get away with the above no bother, the other 99% of the population just have to suck it up, it's always been the way and I can't see it changing

Why are people concerned about a farmer loosing his farm? Well, you are posting on a Farming and Forestry forum. That would be one reason

WheatenBriar

gordongekko wrote: »

How much did we spend bailing out this DUTCH bank?

We probably did as they're big enough to have had an interest in some of our banks subordinated debt/bonds
You know,the ones we paid off in full on Mr Trichet's orders...

Sheep breeder

the person i feel sorry for is the father, after a life time of work to see it all go work has to be very hard on the man, and sorry i have no sadness for the son.
my view is we all have taken loans for cars, weddings, houses, land , farmyards, but we all have to pay for it someday and at now time did we ever thing we would get away with out paying it back.
if we had no banks or morgage lenders how would any of us moved on.

Farmer Ed

Figerty wrote: »

Why are people concerned about a farmer loosing his farm? Well, you are posting on a Farming and Forestry forum. That would be one reason

That and Irish people have a great personal attachment to their family farm. Maybe its even an unhealthy attachment, But as witnessed by the amount of comments on here. Rural people are obsessed with land and the ownership of it. It might be totally irrational, but I have heard people's self worth being judged by the amount of land they managed to buy or the shame of having to sell land.
Possibly a crazy way of thinking, but maybe we need to all take a step back and look at what really is important in life and how we value ourselves and other people.

paddysdream

flutered wrote: »

a family farm is hard for an outsider to fathom, the blood sweat and tears of many generations are in it, if not in a particular one, the farmer came via another one, how many hours are worked for nothing only the desire to survive, how many family members have slaved back throught the years, before modern machinery has eases the pressure, but at what cost, the cost of machinery and the loss of numbers from the countryside, back through the years many farming familys had only two companions, slavery and penury, when rent and rates had to be paid no matter what, been through that and thankfully survived, but the cost in physical terms alone has been enormous, add the mental strain, was it worth it, the jury is out

Do you seriously believe this?
There is no special god given right to hold onto land no matter how much blood sweat and tears were involved in the getting and holding on to it.

Figerty

Farmer Ed wrote: »

That and Irish people have a great personal attachment to their family farm. Maybe its even an unhealthy attachment, But as witnessed by the amount of comments on here. Rural people are obsessed with land and the ownership of it. It might be totally irrational, but I have heard people's self worth being judged by the amount of land they managed to buy or the shame of having to sell land.
Possibly a crazy way of thinking, but maybe we need to all take a step back and look at what really is important in life and how we value ourselves and other people.

I think it goes deeper than than. Land changes hand very rarely in Ireland.. when it's taken away from you it cuts deeper. On my land there are the remains of the mud houses that were present in the 1840's.

There was a crash in the British economy in the 1840's. A famine in Ireland. Evictions of those with small holdings and being forced in work house rampant with disease. Ethnic cleansing in a different way. The figures are scary for west- Clare. Atlas of the Great Irish Famine is a stunning piece of work.

Jump forward to today.. we have a bank crash, hundreds living in Hotels and banks foreclosing on business and farmers.

It's also obvious from the Kingston's manoeuvres that they are putting down an marker for any potential purchaser of the land if it goes that far.

keep going

Let me get this straight. This guy embarks on a madcap plan to milk 600 cows in a indoor system when he already owes a shed load of money to a bank.he proceeds to rips off anybody who supplys anything to him, complains the bank didnt give enough even though he couldnt pay back already and when the bank finally calls in the loans has the where with all to buy back the cows while leaving everyone else on the hook and some of ye think hes some kind of hero taking on the banks.lads theres alot going on here, im telling ye , ye dont have a clue

Base price

paddysdream wrote: »

Rubbish.
If I borrow your tractor and then refuse to give it back until it suits me should all my neighbours help and sympathise with me?
Those Dutch "pricks" were doing their job same as the sheriff ,guards there on duty (pictures in paper) etc etc.
And yes it prob. is coming to a townland near me. What should I do ?Stand in solidarity with someone who has messed about for years,paid no one they could avoid and when they couldn't avoid it,paid as little and late as possible?
Not a hope
.Genuine hard luck cases are very rare and they deserve help but people who borrow millions and then it all goes wrong ?Would people feel the same about all those builders/developers who went under a few years ago?Just cause its farmers that are feeling the cold wind of reality at this time is no reason to lose our reason

I smiled wryly to myself when I read your post
If I was to loan you my tractor I would only do so if I trusted you to look after it and keep it in good working order.
I would assume you are asking for it because your own tractor is broken and not for any other reason such as sub letting it to another person/hiring it out in order to make a few bucks
If you held onto it then I reckon it was for a good reason and I would discuss our mutual situations and try to accommodate your requirements.
If that didn't work and ye still kept onto it then I would rely on neighbours/friends to intervene in order to resolve the situation. Now, you would want to be some thick bzatard if your local community pressure didn't work - caveat, you may not be from around these parts.
If all else failed I know that I would have my tractor back and none of the other neighbours would lend one too you either.

blue5000

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Careful there, Blue.

Many out there would consider farmers to be part of the rich(even though you can't eat land).:p

It all depends how much debt we have

Figerty

keep going wrote: »

Let me get this straight. This guy embarks on a madcap plan to milk 600 cows in a indoor system when he already owes a shed load of money to a bank.he proceeds to rips off anybody who supplys anything to him, complains the bank didnt give enough even though he couldnt pay back already and when the bank finally calls in the loans has the where with all to buy back the cows while leaving everyone else on the hook and some of ye think hes some kind of hero taking on the banks.lads theres alot going on here, im telling ye , ye dont have a clue

I not sure anyone has the full story; I have my suspicions, but your post is the first insight into what was happening on the ground. I haven't read all the posts.

I'm also sure the farmer isn't without blame but until facts are revealed I'll hold off judging.

jcon1913

farmerjj wrote: »

Don't know why people are so happy will this all just be more expense for the banks, and just mean more of a chance they will go after the family home.

Im not familiar with the specifics n this case but a lot of these loans were bought by carpetbagging scumbags for 20c in the euro. Now they are robbing people left right and centre to make money from these loan porfolios ghey bought. These entities are not banks so they are not subject to the same regulations banks are subject to.

Milked out

jcon1913 wrote: »

Im not familiar with the specifics n this case but a lot of these loans were bought by carpetbagging scumbags for 20c in the euro. Now they are robbing people left right and centre to make money from these loan porfolios ghey bought. These entities are not banks so they are not subject to the same regulations banks are subject to.

This loan wasn't sold off. It s the bank looking to recover what it leant out

Base price

keep going wrote: »

ah lads would ye shut up about this because ye dont know the full story.

Sometimes every tom and dick are storyteller's when bad news is rife :mad:

paddysdream

Base price wrote: »

I smiled wryly to myself when I read your post
If I was to loan you my tractor I would only do so if I trusted you to look after it and keep it in good working order.
I would assume you are asking for it because your own tractor is broken and not for any other reason such as sub letting it to another person/hiring it out in order to make a few bucks
If you held onto it then I reckon it was for a good reason and I would discuss our mutual situations and try to accommodate your requirements.
If that didn't work and ye still kept onto it then I would rely on neighbours/friends to intervene in order to resolve the situation. Now, you would want to be some thick bzatard if your local community pressure didn't work - caveat, you may not be from around these parts.
If all else failed I know that I would have my tractor back and none of the other neighbours would lend one too you either.

?
Think you are agreeing with me then.

Base price

paddysdream wrote: »

?
Think you are agreeing with me then.

Nope, I only just trying to be polite
Personally I would cut the head off any ****er who crossed or attempted to sell/purchase my, OH's or my Mothers (Uncles's) land.
**** the Banks :D:D:D

XR3i

Base price wrote: »

Nope, I only just trying to be polite
Personally I would cut the head off any ****er who crossed or attempted to sell/purchase my, OH's or my Mothers (Uncles's) land.
**** the Banks :D:D:D

don't tell them that by text message or voicemail

*speaking from personal experience

Base price

XR3i wrote: »

don't tell them that by text message or voicemail

*speaking from personal experience

I have been down this road before when I was a teenager in the 80's. There was no interweb or mobile phones (as such) in those days and interest rates were running at 15% and rising. There was a family of grabbers within the locality who tried to capatalise on another farmers financial misfortune :mad:
To this day they are still viewed as pariahs within the community. Both of the pariahs children attended the same National school as mine. Their kids spent many a happy afternoon at my house due to the fact that my kids became friends with theirs'. Their respective Mam's would always drop and collect the kids from mine. Their father's were not welcome about the place.
Twenty two years later the kids have still remained friends

XR3i

Base price wrote: »

I have been down this road before when I was a teenager in the 80's. There was no interweb or mobile phones (as such) in those days and interest rates were running at 15% and rising. There was a family of grabbers within the locality who tried to capatalise on another farmers financial misfortune :mad:
To this day they are still viewed as pariahs within the community. Both of the pariahs children attended the same National school as mine. Their kids spent many a happy afternoon at my house due to the fact that my kids became friends with theirs'. Their respective Mam's would always drop and collect the kids from mine. Their father's were not welcome about the place.
Twenty two years later the kids have still remained friends

oh i could tell you about the day i met the man who bought my grandfather's farm, i thought i'd want to hit him with the slashook but he was a sound man

he is sound as a bell,

never would have a problem with him

more so with the auntie who sold it

and at the end of day i still have the home-house and three fields

(and am scheming away on a plan to buy 2 fields back, or squat them)

cjpm

keep going wrote: »

Let me get this straight. This guy embarks on a madcap plan to milk 600 cows in a indoor system when he already owes a shed load of money to a bank.he proceeds to rips off anybody who supplys anything to him, complains the bank didnt give enough even though he couldnt pay back already and when the bank finally calls in the loans has the where with all to buy back the cows while leaving everyone else on the hook and some of ye think hes some kind of hero taking on the banks.lads theres alot going on here, im telling ye , ye dont have a clue

The journal alluded to this. Mentioned all the unpaid locals....