The Kingston story: Bidders fail to pay up for auctioned cows

patsy_mccabe

dev100 wrote: »

... Sheriffs are just leeches no sympathy for them what so ever

It is a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

Sam Kade

st1979 wrote: »

Look on the UK forums and some of them like to be putting first cups on at 4.30am getting up at 3.30. On twice a day milking. Mental.

Yeah, 4 am would be the case on most US family farms also. I know a man collecting milk starting at 3 am and finishing at 9 am and he also milks 50 cows :eek:

patsy_mccabe

Sam Kade wrote: »

Yeah, 4 am would be the case on most US family farms also. I know a man collecting milk starting at 3 am and finishing at 9 am and he also milks 50 cows :eek:

Is that 7 days a week? My dad did that for years. Collected milk 7 days a week and milked around 15 cows morning and evening. It caught up with him eventually.

mahoney_j

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's late 5.30 here.

As I said I'm a lazy fooker!!!!

Sam Kade

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Is that 7 days a week? My dad did that for years. Collected milk 7 days a week and milked around 15 cows morning and evening. It caught up with him eventually.

Yeah 7 days and a few days off during the season. It would wreck the thoughest of men. I wouldn't mind but I'd say the same fella still has his conformation money.

mahoney_j

st1979 wrote: »

Look on the UK forums and some of them like to be putting first cups on at 4.30am getting up at 3.30. On twice a day milking. Mental.

Can't understand lads keeping those sort of hours ,

Buford T. Justice XIX

Farmer Ed wrote: »

You see the part here I think we are all missing is whether or not it is possible for one person to manage 120 cows on their own? The fact remains it takes more time to look after 120 cows than it does to look after 70. The question is as farmers are we going to be paid for that extra work? It is something we seem to have bought into hook line and sinker. We do all this extra work for very little or even less money.

Most other professions if they work overtime get paid time and a half. A lot of us are effectively salivating at the mouth at the idea of working extra hours for free or even taking a pay cut. Try selling that one to the Luas workers! We must surely be some gullible shower of ejits! I have have heard one farm consultant describe this irrational mindset by using the analogy of people getting carried away with comparing the size of their mickeys. Size is of no use if it doesn't reap any extra benefit. Infact it could end up weighing you down. Metaphorically speaking of course.

Not really.

The difference in adding one round of cows is about 8 minutes milking in the morning and 5 in the evening.
3-4 minutes each day during winter to throw an extra grab or 2 of silage or doseing or vaccinating.
Heat detection, is it much more difficult to see 3-4 cows bulling in a herd of 80 more than 70?

Now, I know they all add up but increasing my herd by 25% in the last 7-8 years is adding less than a half hour a day to the workload.
Slurry contracted out, feeders and acrs in the parlour already, hopefully drafting and auto calf feeder in the next 2-3 years will reduce the workload even more.

For all those jobs, I would be in place to do that with the reduced numbers anyway so It's not much more to do them with a few more cows as well.

BoatMad

dev100 wrote: »

The same developers got a nice salary from nama to look after their bad debts.
The rule book rarely gets applied evenly in this country .

Sheriffs are just leeches no sympathy for them what so ever

only some developers did, many just went to the wall.

just the same as many banks have done deals with debtors to restructure or have exercised a degree of forbearance, where there was a reasonable chance to repay .

Its only the hopeless case that the banks act on, foreclosing usually means they have to crystallise their losses, which banks hate to do

This must have been one of those cases

Businesses fail, thats the realistic truth of it

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Not really.

The difference in adding one round of cows is about 8 minutes milking in the morning and 5 in the evening.
3-4 minutes each day during winter to throw an extra grab or 2 of silage or doseing or vaccinating.
Heat detection, is it much more difficult to see 3-4 cows bulling in a herd of 80 more than 70?

Now, I know they all add up but increasing my herd by 25% in the last 7-8 years is adding less than a half hour a day to the workload.
Slurry contracted out, feeders and acrs in the parlour already, hopefully drafting and auto calf feeder in the next 2-3 years will reduce the workload even more.

For all those jobs, I would be in place to do that with the reduced numbers anyway so It's not much more to do them with a few more cows as well.

Much mallinged gadgets and gizmos around parlour and yard are frowned upon by some here bufford !!!in a herd up to 120/30 at least they have a very valid place as at that level full or part time labour is hard justify .the more things around the yard to save time and simplify things the better .auto calf feeder next on my hitlist here.

Farmer Ed

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Not really.

The difference in adding one round of cows is about 8 minutes milking in the morning and 5 in the evening.
3-4 minutes each day during winter to throw an extra grab or 2 of silage or doseing or vaccinating.
Heat detection, is it much more difficult to see 3-4 cows bulling in a herd of 80 more than 70?

Now, I know they all add up but increasing my herd by 25% in the last 7-8 years is adding less than a half hour a day to the workload.
Slurry contracted out, feeders and acrs in the parlour already, hopefully drafting and auto calf feeder in the next 2-3 years will reduce the workload even more.

For all those jobs, I would be in place to do that with the reduced numbers anyway so It's not much more to do them with a few more cows as well.

And for all the extra investment are you guaranteed a return? And what about having enough grass in front of extra cows in a spring like we have just had? What about the stress of having to deal with that, when you have lots of extra cows and nothing to feed them with?

The fact remains farmers are expected and a lot are even getting very excited at the prospect of having to work harder and take on more personal risk for possibly less pay. Milk made more 30 years ago than it does now.

This is not even totally an issue that can be fully attributed to to the end of quotas. I'm reliably told that in places like kerry where there has never been an issue with quota and farmers could have made a lot of money by expanding over the years when milk price was good, some have now suddenly decided that rapid expansion is the fashionable thing to be doing.

To me that is the question here? Are we expanding because it makes good business sense and it will improve one's quality of life or are we just doing it
because we are trying to impress the neighbours or God forbid even other people on the likes of boards? Are we really that much more advanced than some of the African tribes you read about, where the amount of wives a man can have is determined by the amount of cows he has?

Coming to think about it maybe we are not. A lot of the people I know who make the most noise about their personal achievements in farming. Either have the poor wife at home milking the cows or out working to subsidise the supposedly lucrative farm business.

I go back again to the comparison to any other group of workers in society. I don't know of any group of workers who would be excited about having to work harder to possibly make less money.

BoatMad

I go back again to the comparison to any other group of workers in society. I don't know of any group of workers who would be excited about having to work harder to possibly make less money.

this is true of the self employed in general

Farmer Ed

BoatMad wrote: »

this is true of the self employed in general

You may well be right but is it always rational behaviour? If the theme of this thread is anything to go by IMO definitely not.

mahoney_j

Farmer Ed wrote: »

And for all the extra investment are you guaranteed a return? And what about having enough grass in front of extra cows in a spring like we have just had? What about the stress of having to deal with that, when you have lots of extra cows and nothing to feed them with?

The fact remains farmers are expected and a lot are even getting very excited at the prospect of having to work harder and take on more personal risk for possibly less pay. Milk made more 30 years ago than it does now.

This is not even totally an issue that can be fully attributed to to the end of quotas. I'm reliably told that in places like kerry where there has never been an issue with quota and farmers could have made a lot of money by expanding over the years when milk price was good, some have now suddenly decided that rapid expansion is the fashionable thing to be doing.

To me that is the question here? Are we expanding because it makes good business sense and it will improve one's quality of life or are we just doing it
because we are trying to impress the neighbours or God forbid even other people on the likes of boards? Are we really that much more advanced than some of the African tribes you read about, where the amount of wives a man can have is determined by the amount of cows he has?

Coming to think about it maybe we are not. A lot of the people I know who make the most noise about their personal achievements in farming. Either have the poor wife at home milking the cows or out working to subsidise the supposedly lucrative farm business.

I go back again to the comparison to any other group of workers in society. I don't know of any group of workers who would be excited about having to work harder to possibly make less money.

No offence but hate listening to lads like u ,what if this ,what if that .no control over weather ,grass growth etc etc .what we can do is prepair and always be ready for when things get difficult .milk will make 40 cent again and most definetly make 20 ,we've no control all we can do is set ourselves up for the peaks and troughs ,it's not like we don't know it's going to happen .i worked in a well paid job with great perks for 10 years away from farm and no way I'd go back .i love dairy farming and working with stock and making and backing my own decisions ,some will be great ones others a pure Fookin disaster .

Farmer Ed

mahoney_j wrote: »

No offence but hate listening to lads like u ,what if this ,what if that .no control over weather ,grass growth etc etc .what we can do is prepair and always be ready for when things get difficult .milk will make 40 cent again and most definetly make 20 ,we've no control all we can do is set ourselves up for the peaks and troughs ,it's not like we don't know it's going to happen .i worked in a well paid job with great perks for 10 years away from farm and no way I'd go back .i love dairy farming and working with stock and making and backing my own decisions ,some will be great ones others a pure Fookin disaster .

I can totally respect that. Just the thing that gets me is the mad rush for numbers at any cost and the total lack of coordination as a group to try and get the best deal for the group as a whole. If you are making good money at what you are doing , then fair play to you and more luck to you.
But if you go back again to the logic of the example of farmers in kerry now suddenly deciding it is a good time to expand. Why not over the last 30 years? You'd have to say there is an element of a lot of people being driven by ego rather than sound business practice.

BoatMad

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I can totally respect that. Just the thing that gets me is the mad rush for numbers at any cost and the total lack of coordination as a group to try and get the best deal for the group as a whole. If you are making good money at what you are doing , then fair play to you and more luck to you.
But if you go back again to the logic of the example of farmers in kerry now suddenly deciding it is a good time to expand. Why not over the last 30 years? You'd have to say there is an element of a lot of people being driven by ego rather than sound business practice.

I would suggest that any large grouping attention to set pricing would be viewed as price fixing and anti competitive

the decision for any business to expand, especially small owner run ones, is very tricky, there can be the economies of scale argument, the availability of capital argument , as well as a decision on timing.

Ultimately you decide to do it or not, either is a bad decision in itself, its what happens that makes it so

awaywithyou

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Not really.

The difference in adding one round of cows is about 8 minutes milking in the morning and 5 in the evening.
3-4 minutes each day during winter to throw an extra grab or 2 of silage or doseing or vaccinating.
Heat detection, is it much more difficult to see 3-4 cows bulling in a herd of 80 more than 70?

Now, I know they all add up but increasing my herd by 25% in the last 7-8 years is adding less than a half hour a day to the workload.
Slurry contracted out, feeders and acrs in the parlour already, hopefully drafting and auto calf feeder in the next 2-3 years will reduce the workload even more.

For all those jobs, I would be in place to do that with the reduced numbers anyway so It's not much more to do them with a few more cows as well.

put in the drafting as soon as you can lad... christ if there was ever a mighty invention.. it is surely the drafting gate... what a yoke!!!

every dairy farmer in the country should have one... i would say they should be a compulsory purchase ....

Farmer Ed

BoatMad wrote: »

I would suggest that any large grouping attention to set pricing would be viewed as price fixing and anti competitive

the decision for any business to expand, especially small owner run ones, is very tricky, there can be the economies of scale argument, the availability of capital argument , as well as a decision on timing.

Ultimately you decide to do it or not, either is a bad decision in itself, its what happens that makes it so

I'm afraid by our actions as a group. Yes us farmers can definitely be accused of price fixing. So much so that when inflation is taken into account. A lot of farmers unfortunate enough to be supplying the more poorly run Co Ops that have made the worst business decisions,are facing a historically low price for milk this year.

awaywithyou

Farmer Ed wrote: »

And for all the extra investment are you guaranteed a return? And what about having enough grass in front of extra cows in a spring like we have just had? What about the stress of having to deal with that, when you have lots of extra cows and nothing to feed them with?

The fact remains farmers are expected and a lot are even getting very excited at the prospect of having to work harder and take on more personal risk for possibly less pay. Milk made more 30 years ago than it does now.

This is not even totally an issue that can be fully attributed to to the end of quotas. I'm reliably told that in places like kerry where there has never been an issue with quota and farmers could have made a lot of money by expanding over the years when milk price was good, some have now suddenly decided that rapid expansion is the fashionable thing to be doing.

To me that is the question here? Are we expanding because it makes good business sense and it will improve one's quality of life or are we just doing it
because we are trying to impress the neighbours or God forbid even other people on the likes of boards? Are we really that much more advanced than some of the African tribes you read about, where the amount of wives a man can have is determined by the amount of cows he has?

Coming to think about it maybe we are not. A lot of the people I know who make the most noise about their personal achievements in farming. Either have the poor wife at home milking the cows or out working to subsidise the supposedly lucrative farm business.

I go back again to the comparison to any other group of workers in society. I don't know of any group of workers who would be excited about having to work harder to possibly make less money.

dont know of anyone rapidly expanding here in kerry...... going from 50 to 500 cows is not possible in this county.... i would be thinking so anyway

Farmer Ed

awaywithyou wrote: »

dont know of anyone rapidly expanding here in kerry...... going from 50 to 500 cows is not possible in this county.... i would be thinking so anyway

Just going on the guy who services my milking machine and a very shrewd kerryman he is. .

freedominacup

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Coming to think about it maybe we are not. A lot of the people I know who make the most noise about their personal achievements in farming. Either have the poor wife at home milking the cows or out working to subsidise the supposedly lucrative farm business.

And what would you have "the poor wife" do seeing as you don't want her to work on the farm or in a job? My wife is a well qualified professional and has always worked full time apart from a few years of part time when our kids were small/pre school. She is in no way defined by what I do from when I leave the house in the morning until I come in at night. Tbh I think she'd slowly garrote you for a comment like that if she thought she'd get away with it.

BoatMad

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I'm afraid by our actions as a group. Yes us farmers can definitely be accused of price fixing. So much so that when inflation is taken into account. A lot of farmers unfortunate enough to be supplying the more poorly run Co Ops that have made the worst business decisions,are facing a historically low price for milk this year.

AN industry that for years has been subject to both price controls and supply and demand intervention , is likely to have a rough time as its transitions to market pricing, The New Zealand experiment caused similar upsets.

Ultimately however , its the only way. the uneconomic producer goes out of business and the successful prosper. Those that cannot achieve successful economics, need to pivot or desist.

Farming is no different to any other business, its when it gets confused as to what it is , then the trouble starts

RightTurnClyde

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

.....auto calf feeder in the next 2-3 years will reduce the workload even more.

Put one in here this spring. They're the dogs dodos. Reared nearly all the calves this year, with half the work load of rearing just the heifers before. It's starting to wean some of the calves now and there isn't a peep out of them.
Two things I would change if I was getting one again
1. Get a combi that will feed milk and replacer. Very important to reduce work load even more,
2. Get a powder or liquid doser on it aswell.

Milked out

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Just going on the guy who services my milking machine and a very shrewd kerryman he is. .

That would go down as hearsay or gossip in my book anyway as opposed to "reliably" told

whelan2

blue5000 wrote: »

I see someone bought a lot of cows and then refused to pay for them

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0415/782168-cork-debt-cows/

Mods if this is inappropriate kindly remove it...



Mod:

Please read post#36 carefully.

Previous related discussion can be found on the Bank Foreclosure thread here.

Apologies for bringing this thread back on topic, the above link says 2 bidders failed to put up the funds. Was the other guy just trying to stall things?

Farmer Ed

freedominacup wrote: »

And what would you have "the poor wife" do seeing as you don't want her to work on the farm or in a job? My wife is a well qualified professional and has always worked full time apart from a few years of part time when our kids were small/pre school. She is in no way defined by what I do from when I leave the house in the morning until I come in at night. Tbh I think she'd slowly garrote you for a comment like that if she thought she'd get away with it.

No problem with that and more luck to you and your wife if that is what makes both of you happy. Just I know more than a few chancers that live of the hard work of their spouses , both male and female, and then go along to proclaim to the world of there great success and work ethic. Its not uncommon. Im sure you must know some of them too.

Sam Kade

whelan2 wrote: »

Apologies for bringing this thread back on topic, the above link says 2 bidders failed to put up the funds. Was the other guy just trying to stall things?

They were both buying for the father, the son said that his father was at the auction and buying. You'd think that they'd vet the bidders better in an auction like that. Either way both bidders didn't comply with the terms and conditions of the sale.

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

That would go down as hearsay or gossip in my book anyway as opposed to "reliably" told

My apologies, maybe n future we should consider requesting boards to only accept posts that are submitted in the form of sworn affidavits.

Sam Kade

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Just going on the guy who services my milking machine and a very shrewd kerryman he is. .

If he weren't shrewd he wouldn't be a Kerryman They play their cards very close to their chests down in Kerry.

Farmer Ed

Sam Kade wrote: »

They were both buying for the father, the son said that his father was at the auction and buying. You'd think that they'd vet the bidders better in an auction like that. Either way both bidders didn't comply with the terms and conditions of the sale.

Technically you may be right but surely practically it would make more sense for the sheriff to wait a few days for the money rather than have to go to the trouble of having to auction them all off again?

Sam Kade

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Technically you may be right but surely practically it would make more sense for the sheriff to wait a few days for the money rather than have to go to the trouble of having to auction them all off again?

True but they would have extra costs holding onto the animals for an extra week also.