NBA Playoffs 2016

Paully D

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

His career to this point is superior to Jordan's, yes.

Ah come on Lloyd.

LuckyLloyd

Paully D wrote: »

Ah come on Lloyd.

Ah come on what? LeBron to 31 > Jordan to 31 is hardly a 'come on man' argument. Is it?

Jordan played 179 playoff games in his career:

Per Game: 33.4pts // 6.4rebounds // 5.7asts // 2.1stls // 0.9blks
Advanced: 28.6per // 35.5%usg // .568ts%

LeBron has already played 198:

Per Game: 28.0pts // 8.8rebounds // 6.8asts // 1.8stls // 0.9blks
Advanced: 27.7per // 32.0%usg // .567ts%


I think people are lying if they say this isn't close when you consider how bad some of LeBron's early Cleveland squads were.

ButtersSuki

If you actually believe that, you're either very new to basketball and just do not realise how good Jordan was, very naive (and I'm being kind in my choice of language there), or most likely just trolling.

GoldFour4

In fairness lads he's entitled to his opinion and has attempted to back it up to some extent.

Personally I don't like comparing the two. The two eras of basketball are different and further from that they played separate positions.

Both players are/were spectacular and the best in the league in their era by a long way. You can spend all day trying to find stats to prove that Jordan or LBJ was better than the other but your always going to have someone with a different opinion to you.

ESPN and the likes are soon (and probably already have) delved back into the LeBron v Jordan debate without even reflecting back on some of the performances in game 7. Kevin Love has been mocked for the entire season for being redundant on that team. Last night with the Cavs up 3 and with the MVP 1 on 1 with him he played absolutely spectacular defense and prevented Curry from getting a good shot up. If he can produce consistent plays like that then he certainly has a place on the Cavs team next season.

That's the type of thing I wished the media and us as fans focused on rather than fantasy comparisons between players from different eras.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah come on what? LeBron to 31 > Jordan to 31 is hardly a 'come on man' argument. Is it?

Jordan played 179 playoff games in his career:

Per Game: 33.4pts // 6.4rebounds // 5.7asts // 2.1stls // 0.9blks
Advanced: 28.6per // 35.5%usg // .568ts%

LeBron has already played 198:

Per Game: 28.0pts // 8.8rebounds // 6.8asts // 1.8stls // 0.9blks
Advanced: 27.7per // 32.0%usg // .567ts%


I think people are lying if they say this isn't close when you consider how bad some of LeBron's early Cleveland squads were.

You didn't say "close" though. You said "better".

And I asked twice to make sure.

As for stats - and I've said this more than once - stats don't tell the full picture. Jordan was by far a better closer of games, and a much better last play guy. With the game on the line, I'd rather the ball in his hands over LeJon's EVERY SINGLE TIME.

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

If you actually believe that, you're either very new to basketball and just do not realise how good Jordan was, very naive (and I'm being kind in my choice of language there), or most likely just trolling.

I'm neither new to basketball nor am I unaware of how exceptional Jordan was. The contention that it is ridiculous to compare them through this stage of their careers is an ignorant one imo.

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

You didn't say "close" though. You said "better".

And I asked twice to make sure.

As for stats - and I've said this more than once - stats don't tell the full picture. Jordan was by far a better closer of games, and a much better last play guy. With the game on the line, I'd rather the ball in his hands over LeJon's EVERY SINGLE TIME.

In terms of closing LeBron has gone to a game seven twice and won both times, being finals MVP on each occasion. For sure, Jordan is the best clutch shooter of all time but that's not all that wins a game. To get to the last shot you need 47mins40seconds of play and all facets of the game count. We've just witnessed the GOAT Finals performance and the first time a player led both teams in all of points / assists / rebounds / steals / blocks at the end of any playoff series ever of any length. The key block on Iggy and icing free throw was as valuable a close as you'll see.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm neither new to basketball nor am I unaware of how exceptional Jordan was. The contention that it is ridiculous to compare them through this stage of their careers is an ignorant one imo.

But you said...twice....he was better than Jordan.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm neither new to basketball nor am I unaware of how exceptional Jordan was. The contention that it is ridiculous to compare them through this stage of their careers is an ignorant one imo.

I never said it was ridiculous to compare them. You however twice said that James is better than Jordan.

LuckyLloyd

Through this stage of their career. Jordan reeled off three rings straight from this point though. Can't predict the future but he looks like he has a few more miles in the tank as of yet.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Through this stage of their career. Jordan reeled off three rings straight from this point though. Can't predict the future but he looks like he has a few more miles in the tank as of yet.

Actually Jordan took 2 years off at this point, but whatever. You've obviously made your mind up.

Classy to the end, this is the T short he wore getting off the plane in Cleveland:

I can't wait to hear him explain this as a tribute to the wrestler who passed away, because as we know, he always "takes the high ground". :rolleyes: So he's not just a sore loser cry-baby, he's also a sore winner.

LuckyLloyd

That t - shirt is hilarious!

SantryRed

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Actually Jordan took 2 years off at this point, but whatever. You've obviously made your mind up.

Classy to the end, this is the T short he wore getting off the plane in Cleveland:


I can't wait to hear him explain this as a tribute to the wrestler who passed away, because as we know, he always "takes the high ground". :rolleyes: So he's not just a sore loser cry-baby, he's also a sore winner.

You're really taking this loss hard :pac:

LuckyLloyd

NufcNavan wrote: »

LBJ is a fake tough guy, like he has been throughout his career.

NufcNavan wrote: »

Another incredibly boring NBA Finals. Par for the course nowadays. 2014 was awful quality from a competitive standpoint, though it was a nice story with the Spurs having one last hurrah. 2015 was tied at 2-2, but the quality was pretty poor - a one man show Cavs team vs. a Warriors team that had hideous shot selection ( though to their credit it worked overall). 2016 has obviously sucked.

It's all so predictable and stale at this point. I'm tired of watching Lebron-centric teams getting smacked around in the Finals. Someone in the East needs to step up and build an elite team so that we can have some fresh entertainment.

NufcNavan wrote: »

Lebron seems quite happy making the finals and passive aggressively hogging the ball so it appears that he has no teammates...

It's always Lebron's achievement when his team makes the finals, and always his team that gets blamed when they don't win it.

Lebron's supporting cast gives him no help. He needs better players around him. The narrative hasn't changed.

Good reading going through this thread :pac:

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Good reading going through this thread :pac:

Not as funny as reading your posts.

ButtersSuki

SantryRed wrote: »

You're really taking this loss hard :pac:

Not at all. I wasn't playing.

ButtersSuki

Have to wonder though if - AS THEY SHOULD HAVE FROM 3-1 up - GS had closed this out would all the LeJon Lovers be coming out of the woodwork like they are now? I've seen more new faces since game 6 in here than combined in the regular season. Interesting.

ButtersSuki

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Have to wonder though if - AS THEY SHOULD HAVE FROM 3-1 up - GS had closed this out would all the LeJon Lovers be coming out of the woodwork like they are now? I've seen more new faces since game 6 in here than combined in the regular season. Interesting.

fact is though that they did come back and lebron was a massive part of that. I think they easier route/more rest in the east played a big part i don't think anyone thinks that the cavs are actually the best team in the league but lebron was a monster and he deserves serious credit for what he did in this series.

Carcharodon

The most cringing word going to be used now is "exposed". Love how people turn into experts after the facts, would Cleveland been "exposed" if the last 20seconds went against them?

Kobe248

Im going to see if I can find odds on LBJ going to NY or LAL

To bring a title to NY would out do anything hes done so far and the media would love it

His ego might just make him do it

ButtersSuki

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Have to wonder though if - AS THEY SHOULD HAVE FROM 3-1 up - GS had closed this out would all the LeJon Lovers be coming out of the woodwork like they are now? I've seen more new faces since game 6 in here than combined in the regular season. Interesting.

This Lejon malarkey is tiresome

ButtersSuki

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Have to wonder though if - AS THEY SHOULD HAVE FROM 3-1 up - GS had closed this out would all the LeJon Lovers be coming out of the woodwork like they are now? I've seen more new faces since game 6 in here than combined in the regular season. Interesting.

This Lejon malarkey is tiresome

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Not as funny as reading your posts.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Have to wonder though if - AS THEY SHOULD HAVE FROM 3-1 up - GS had closed this out would all the LeJon Lovers be coming out of the woodwork like they are now? I've seen more new faces since game 6 in here than combined in the regular season. Interesting.

I can say likewise.

Any fan of basketball should be able to appreciate LeBron's performance the last three games. It was an absolute privilege to watch the best player in the game go to work like that.

I didn't know there was an active basketball community on boards before yesterday tbh.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxY_m_fQYPk

Interesting video here. While the focus is obv great one on one defense from Love forcing another Curry brick, it's interesting how the play develops and the options not taken. Curry's pass is probably actually intended for Barnes who achieves separation after LeBron is slightly slow on the switch - he might have been able to get a quick three off.

And then Green passes it back to Curry with 9 seconds still on the shot clock, whereas he could have maybe held it a second longer and found Klay on the cut into the now empty space in the middle. Or Green could have driven on his man towards the rim into that space. In either scenario LeBron might be able to get across to help given the ridiculous defensive form he was in but both options are generally decent percentage.

In the end GS still get a favourable look - Curry on Love in space should be a favourable match up. But Curry was ice cold when it mattered and Love turned in a number of gritty plays like that on the night.

Carcharodon

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Not as funny as reading your posts.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Have to wonder though if - AS THEY SHOULD HAVE FROM 3-1 up - GS had closed this out would all the LeJon Lovers be coming out of the woodwork like they are now? I've seen more new faces since game 6 in here than combined in the regular season. Interesting.

I can say likewise.

Any fan of basketball should be able to appreciate LeBron's performance the last three games. It was an absolute privilege to watch the best player in the game go to work like that.

I didn't know there was an active basketball community on boards before yesterday tbh.

After reading the past few pages, I am convinced that you are chip bayless.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I can say likewise.

Any fan of basketball should be able to appreciate LeBron's performance the last three games. It was an absolute privilege to watch the best player in the game go to work like that.

I didn't know there was an active basketball community on boards before yesterday tbh.

I love how you ignore the fact I said he played very well. Is that not appreciating what he did?

My problems with LeJon are not his "talents" (to use his own words); rather other aspects of his personality and some of THE DECISIONs he's made on and off the court. Nicknames are usually given for example - but not in his case. He christened himself! And of course he went for a modest nickname.....

Things I don't like:
The travelling. The fouling (offensive and defensive - the Ives he gets gifted and the ones he gets away with). The flopping. The moaning. The lack of sportsmanship. The ego. Etc. Etc. And of course THE DECISION.

Can he play? Yes. Is he a douchebag? Yes.

There are lifelong Cleveland fans who still (yes, still) hate him for what he did to that franchise.


If he had stayed rather than go to Miami and this was title no. 1, his "legacy" (as he's also find of saying) would actually be better long term than his 3 titles in total now with 2 different teams. And if argue it would have been commercially more valuable to him as the story would have been much better than spoilt cry baby runs off to Superfriends to win rings in another city - not 5, not 6, not 7 btw. But he just doesn't get it.

ButtersSuki

Carcharodon wrote: »

After reading the past few pages, I am convinced that you are chip bayless.

You're thinking Stephen A. Smith. At least I assume you're directing that at the latter part of the quoted text?

Skip Bayless actually hates LeJon!

LuckyLloyd

I really don't understand the personality jibes at LeBron at all, Married his teenage sweetheart, has a beautiful family, works his ass off (his physical condition is a testament to that), doesn't hide away from bad personal performances in interviews (if you actually listen to what he says) and showed real genuine emotion when he won last night.

The 'Decision' stuff was immature and stupid. He admitted as much himself subsequently. But he showed a ton of class in how he returned - accepting his own previous failures and letting bygones be bygones with Gilbert et al.

As for how he is reffed, I think he suffers a tremendous amount of contact when driving to the rim and gets far less calls than he should.

SantryRed

I don't understand the petty childishness of this 'LeJon' crap the most. His name is Lebron. It's just weird.

ButtersSuki

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't understand the petty childishness of this 'LeJon' crap the most. His name is Lebron. It's just weird.

Aw, tiddums!

It's....a....joke...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ytF7xoL-I