Got a fixed charge notice for my old car

Easog

I recently got a fixed charge offence notice for speeding. It is from my old car which I sold 3 months ago. Stupidly, I gave the logbook to the new owner thinking he was a genuine garage guy. He only sold the car couple of weeks ago . Car was caught on camera speeding on the 1st April. He put down the change of ownership as the 4th. Is there any way I can appeal this.? Motor tax in Shannon tell me I am liable as it was registered in my name when the offence took place. Appreciate any advice people can give me.

punisher5112

Put person who bought it down as driver and send back.

Atlantic Dawn

Complete mess now to sort out. You need to establish who was driving the car at the time of the offence. Do you have the original buyers details could you try contact them and perhaps say you will refer them to Revenue or a similar threat?

Easog

Yeah, problem is I don't know his name and address. I only have a phone number.

Atlantic Dawn

Easog wrote: »

Yeah, problem is I don't know his name and address. I only have a phone number.

Might be easier to report the car as stolen.



Mod note - Banned for suggesting fraudulent behaviour.

punisher5112

Easog wrote: »

Yeah, problem is I don't know his name and address. I only have a phone number.

Google phone mumber..

You dont have name?

salamanca22

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Might be easier to report the car as stolen.

And waste the already stretched garda time? Not to mention the offenses that you would be committing.

Get onto the garage OP.

CiniO

Easog wrote: »

I recently got a fixed charge offence notice for speeding. It is from my old car which I sold 3 months ago. Stupidly, I gave the logbook to the new owner thinking he was a genuine garage guy. He only sold the car couple of weeks ago . Car was caught on camera speeding on the 1st April. He put down the change of ownership as the 4th. Is there any way I can appeal this.?

Yes, if you don't agree with fixed penalty fine, you can refuse to pay it, and case will end up in court.
In court you'll need to prove it wasn't you driving.
If you have some alibi, it should be really straight forward.

Motor tax in Shannon tell me I am liable as it was registered in my name when the offence took place. Appreciate any advice people can give me.

They told you wrong.
As a registred owner, you are automatically assumed to be driving the car, unless contrary is shown (f.e. you can show you were not driving it).

You don't need to provide details of the person who was driving.

CiniO

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Complete mess now to sort out. You need to establish who was driving the car at the time of the offence.

He doesn't.
To get away from paying a fine, all OP needs to do is to prove in court, that he wasn't driving.
If he can do that, it'll be it.

GM228

CiniO wrote: »

You don't need to provide details of the person who was driving.

CiniO wrote: »

He doesn't.
To get away from paying a fine, all OP needs to do is to prove in court, that he wasn't driving.
If he can do that, it'll be it.

From the Garda website:-

I do not know who was driving the vehicle at the time, what can I do?

The legal responsibility for identifying the driver rests with the registered owner. The notice will remain in the name of the registered owner unless the driver is nominated to the Fixed Charge Processing Office (on the notice)

If you don't own the car anymore you must provide proof that you don't own it with details from Shannon or your local motor tax office.

CiniO

GM228 wrote: »

From the Garda website:-



If you don't own the car anymore you must provide proof that you don't own it with details from Shannon or your local motor tax office.

That's all correct what you're saying.
They won't cancel fixed penalty notice, until you nominate a driver, and even more - until that driver accepts responsibility.
If you can't nominate or nominated person won't accept the fine, they will keep fine in your name and ask you to pay it.

But as I said, what can be done is to refuse to pay it, wait for summons, and prove in court that it wasn't you driving.

Have a look at this:

(11) Where, in a case to which subsection (2)(b) of this section applies, the registered
owner of the mechanically propelled vehicle concerned does not furnish in
accordance with subsection (4) of this section the information specified in
paragraph (i) of that subsection, then, in a prosecution of that owner for the
alleged offence to which the notice under the said subsection (2)(b) relates,
it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown that he or she was driving
or otherwise using the vehicle at the time of the commission of the said
alleged offence.

http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/RevisedActs/WithAnnotations/EN_ACT_2002_0012.PDF

It should be presumed that he or she was driving, until contrary is shown.

So if OP can prove in court that he couldn't be driving this vehicle, he can not be prosecuted for speeding. It's really as simple as that.
At that stage it becomes irrelevant who was driving, if person summonsed can prove it wasnt' him/her.

Easog

Thanks for the help people. I have tried googling his phone number and nothing comes up. Probably will have to go to court. I don't mind paying the fine as it was a mistake on my part to just hand your man the log book but I am not going to accept penalty points as I have 3 already for being marginally above the limit a year and a half ago. As far as I know, once you hit 6 , insurance premium goes up.

neiphin

did you get a receipt from the buyer ?

Tigger

Normally the buyer gets the receipt
It shows how important it is to send off log book
Op did you ring her man ?

Skatedude

could try ringing the guy and saying you got a reminder for tax renewel or similer and try to get his name or garage name that way?

Or as you said you thought he was a garage, again ring and say you got some work done on your car there a while ago and you want to drop your car in for more work and can i get the address again?

Easog

This guy is not co-operating with me at all. I think he is just a cowboy who buys and sells cheap cars.

CiniO wrote: »

So if OP can prove in court that he couldn't be driving this vehicle, he can not be prosecuted for speeding. It's really as simple as that.
At that stage it becomes irrelevant who was driving, if person summonsed can prove it wasnt' him/her.

It turns out I was in college in Limerick when the offence occurred in Dublin.
I had signed into lectures so would an attendance record be acceptable to the court?

CiniO

Easog wrote: »

This guy is not co-operating with me at all. I think he is just a cowboy who buys and sells cheap cars.



It turns out I was in college in Limerick when the offence occurred in Dublin.
I had signed into lectures so would an attendance record be acceptable to the court?

Well, that's a question to solicitor, not me or other people on the forum.

But if I was to guess, I'd say yes.

bazz26

OP, on a side note, you still need to get your name removed from the old car's registration so that you don't get a repeat fixed charge/summons. There is a process for this that includes getting a peace commissioner and Gardai to sign forms.

biko

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Might be easier to report the car as stolen.

Don't do this, it's fraud. AD banned for suggesting it.

mgbgt1978

bazz26 wrote: »

OP, on a side note, you still need to get your name removed from the old car's registration so that you don't get a repeat fixed charge/summons. There is a process for this that includes getting a peace commissioner and Gardai to sign forms.

Easog wrote: »

I recently got a fixed charge offence notice for speeding. It is from my old car which I sold 3 months ago. Stupidly, I gave the logbook to the new owner thinking he was a genuine garage guy. He only sold the car couple of weeks ago . Car was caught on camera speeding on the 1st April. He put down the change of ownership as the 4th. Is there any way I can appeal this.? Motor tax in Shannon tell me I am liable as it was registered in my name when the offence took place. Appreciate any advice people can give me.

No need to do anything.

Easog

My name is off the car now since the 4th of April, 3 days after the speeding offence. Looks like I will be going to court so. I have never been before and looking forward to the experience

Easog

biko wrote: »

Don't do this, it's fraud. AD banned for suggesting it.

Poor old Atlantic Dawn, I think he was joking.

alan partridge aha

If your signed into lectures, you are sorted. Do you have some kind of receipt for sale? If it's dated you are defo ok.

Skatedude

Easog wrote: »

My name is off the car now since the 4th of April, 3 days after the speeding offence. Looks like I will be going to court so. I have never been before and looking forward to the experience

Should be fine as the info would have been posted in and would take longer to be processed anyway. that with the college roster should be definitive. at least beyond a reasonable doubt.

Tigger

Skatedude wrote: »

Should be fine as the info would have been posted in and would take longer to be processed anyway. that with the college roster should be definitive. at least beyond a reasonable doubt.

And the speed van takes a pic of the driver I think