Primary or secondary teaching?

sryanbruen

I know I am only in third year. BUT, I like to plan my future careers early. I am having a really tough decision between primary or secondary school teaching. Just in case, I do primary teaching, I am doing HL Irish for LC - I find the subject easy anyways.

When I was in primary, some of the teachers let me have some experience due to my high IQ ('cause they knew I would do a good job). I did things like teach a class about Weather which is one of my many obsessions, correct tests (because I am the top speller... better than the teachers they said) and make quizzes. On October 26, 2011, I even got to be a game master going around the whole school playing games with classes and give them prizes for winning - it was an awesome day that we all called 'Board Game Day'.

The subjects that I have interest in are Music, Geography, French and Irish.

Here's what I would say on the first day of school to my class regardless of whether it's primary or secondary teaching:

Okay class, my name is Mr. Bruen and I will be teaching you ______ / I will be your class teacher for the year. Unlike many schools or classes, I will teach things differently. In my class, you do not get homework. However, if you make even one interruption which includes talking out of turn, you will be given homework as punishment work. If you behave good then you all get no homework and at times, I may even let you off class and go outside play football or something. OR watch a movie if I'm a secondary teacher.

As you can see, I am strict but fair. Many people consider that I am good with kids. Like I have brought kids to parks, swimming pools etc.

I am really struggling on which sort of teaching to choose, can someone help me?

mirrorwall14

sryanbruen wrote: »

I know I am only in third year. BUT, I like to plan my future careers early. I am having a really tough decision between primary or secondary school teaching. Just in case, I do primary teaching, I am doing HL Irish for LC - I find the subject easy anyways.

When I was in primary, some of the teachers let me have some experience due to my high IQ ('cause they knew I would do a good job). I did things like teach a class about Weather which is one of my many obsessions, correct tests (because I am the top speller... better than the teachers they said) and make quizzes. On October 26, 2011, I even got to be a game master going around the whole school playing games with classes and give them prizes for winning - it was an awesome day that we all called 'Board Game Day'.

The subjects that I have interest in are Music, Geography, French and Irish.

Here's what I would say on the first day of school to my class regardless of whether it's primary or secondary teaching:



As you can see, I am strict but fair. Many people consider that I am good with kids. Like I have brought kids to parks, swimming pools etc.

I am really struggling on which sort of teaching to choose, can someone help me?

Ok I had to edit because you say you are in third year in school, I initially thought you meant in college.

I would have been a similar student to you, high achiever, excellent opportunities were given to me to lead and teach.

However as I grew older, and as you do too, you will come to realise that the nature of teaching is not as black and white as you have laid it out to be above. There are class groups where homework is necessary. There are class groups who will push your boundaries and rules. You may not have permission- for insurance reasons, because of curriculum restraints or simply school rules-to take classes outside or show them videos within class time.

I would suggest that you go on placement to a primary school in TY. Even do some placement in your secondary school if it is possible. Placement, observation and working in the teaching environments will give you a great insight to whether teaching is for you and at which level before you make your choice in sixth year

sryanbruen

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

No homework ever? I'm not sure that's going to go down well with many in school management and parents in many cases. Whatever about flipping the classroom no work at home does not allow any consolidation of the lesson. Have you ever taught or observed a full day in a school? You really need to

Homework in my definition does not include studying - which would be still part of my class. (well obviously). Sorry I should of said that.

mirrorwall14

sryanbruen wrote: »

Homework in my definition does not include studying - which would be still part of my class. (well obviously). Sorry I should of said that.

I'm not sure of the distinction you are making. If I teach a concept in maths for example, practise is important thus homework is important. I've edited my post above as I misread your age

tuisginideach

'I should have said that'

byhookorbycrook

ERRHHMMMM...I think you need to get a bit of proper insight to teaching "If you behave good then you all get no homework and at times, I may even let you off class and go outside play football or something." isn't actually how primary schools function. You can't give homework as punishment to an entire class because one child talks "out of turn." If you have a wet day, what then?
Who supervises the football? What about the child who doesn't like football or has say dyspraxia?

From which subject allocation in the already crowded primary curriculum do you intend to magic up this time?

As someone with such a "high IQ " surely you didn't sit through each and every class without questioning the teacher= so no football for everyone?

And exactly what methodologies did you use to teach the class. A quiz isn't teaching -it's fun yes, but not actually teaching.

I'm afraid I find your post either naive or arrogant, you need to get more to grips with what teaching today actually is, not what you imagine it was.

sryanbruen

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

ERRHHMMMM...I think you need to get a bit of proper insight to teaching "If you behave good then you all get no homework and at times, I may even let you off class and go outside play football or something." isn't actually how primary schools function. You can't give homework as punishment to an entire class because one child talks "out of turn." If you have
Who supervises the football? What about the child who doesn't like football or has say dyspraxia?

From which subject allocation in the already crowded primary curriculum do you intend to magic up this time?

As someone with such a "high IQ " surely you didn't sit through each and every class without questioning the teacher= so no football for everyone?

And exactly what methodologies did you use to teach the class. A quiz isn't teaching -it's fun yes, but not actually teaching.

I'm afraid I find your post either naive or arrogant, you need to get more to grips with what teaching today actually is, not what you imagine it was.

Quizzes was for primary. In my primary, we did a lot more activity than actual work and I think that it worked out great. Plus, I never said homework to the whole class just because of one person - only that person would get it. In today's teaching, my teachers give the whole class punishment work or stay back just because of somebody else. Like you would find me sitting in the class just doing my work, not talking at all and getting high results on tests whilst others distract the class and I have to stay back just because of them. I am a person who hated football for many years and I DO have dyspraxia, so I do know how it feels like. However, I did not say only football, I said "something" like it. 'Em me as the teacher would supervise??? I would be bringing them outside???

And sorry, I'm confused on this point

From which subject allocation in the already crowded primary curriculum do you intend to magic up this time?

sryanbruen

As for the experience, I only had proper experience in my primary, not in secondary - with the exception of two times when my Science teacher told me to correct the homework for HL students - since she knows about my love for teaching and how good I am at it - I'm not being self-centred or anything! Like I tutor students and give them a bit of "grinds" (not actual grinds... like I don't ask for money or anything). You will find many of my resources and posts on studyclix.ie - in which the moderators asked me would I like to have a bit of work experience on it next year in TY because of my large contributions to it. I once showed my powerpoints to my Geography teacher and she was very impressed - yes I actually make me own powerpoints.

So apart from my own tutoring, I haven't had any "proper" teaching experience (due to my age....) in your definition.

Zenify

Smart people don't become teachers. It's an awful job that's seriously under paid.

Also teachers don't have free reign like you think. You don't make decisions like homework or not. You follow the curriculum and that's it....

If it's your dream don't let anyone put you off it, but I would never want to spend my life in a room of 30 misbehaving children for under 40k a year.

sryanbruen

Zenify wrote: »

Smart people don't become teachers. It's an awful job that's seriously under paid.

Also teachers don't have free reign like you think. You don't make decisions like homework or not. You follow the curriculum and that's it....

If it's your dream don't let anyone put you off it, but I would never want to spend my life in a room of 30 misbehaving children for under 40k a year.

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT MONEY. I love teaching and I do not care even if I wasn't paid a cent. (well obviously I do or I'd lose the will to live...). My Science class is the best class you could ever be in. My teacher has a dream job with it because we behave so good and are so quiet.

GarIT

sryanbruen wrote: »

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT MONEY. I love teaching and I do not care even if I wasn't paid a cent. (well obviously I do or I'd lose the will to live...). My Science class is the best class you could ever be in. My teacher has a dream job with it because we behave so good and are so quiet.

As a teacher you don't get to choose your class. You don't even get to choose your school. With the way the jobs market is at the moment and for the foreseeable future you could be lucky getting to choose the county or even province you work in.

mirrorwall14

sryanbruen wrote: »

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT MONEY. I love teaching and I do not care even if I wasn't paid a cent. (well obviously I do or I'd lose the will to live...). My Science class is the best class you could ever be in. My teacher has a dream job with it because we behave so good and are so quiet.

You are coming across as a little naive, even allowing for your age. Money is an important consideration for every career.

In addition you need to imagine that you can teach a full day, week and year with a really bad group. You could end with a job in a very challenging school where every class is difficult

GarIT

sryanbruen wrote: »

why are we all being so negative?

Everyone means well and is trying to help. You have made some statements which make it appear that you have only thought about the nice aspects of teaching and are unaware of what teaching is really like.

sryanbruen

GarIT wrote: »

Everyone means well and is trying to help. You have made some statements which make it appear that you have only thought about the nice aspects of teaching and are unaware of what teaching is really like.

I'm never negative because one day a teacher in my school told me to always be positive. Since then, I haven't been negative.

byhookorbycrook

Not negative, realistic. You have not much insight into the job, you need to get practical experience, not base your views on a teacher who let you give a quiz.

Correcting spelling tests (which are considered outmoded by many educators) doesn't equal assessment of learning, differentiation , learning outcomes and loads more.

The primary curriculum has specific time laid down for each subject area, you can't just decide to watch a dvd or play football or whatever without taking that time from a particular area.

Are you willing to take a day's work here and there , to be endlessly on the hunt for even a temporary job? Money mightn't be important to a 3rd year teenager, but what will you do when you struggle to pay rent on a few days subbing- if even that? Are you willing to take on extra curricular duties on your own time,on top of your own planning, preparation and Croke Park hours?

ETA You should also have a read of the proposed "Autonomy for Schools " document.Good summary here.
http://www.anseo.net/school-autonomy-summarised/

evolving_doors

sryanbruen wrote: »

I'm never negative because one day a teacher in my school told me to always be positive. Since then, I haven't been negative.

Aye, you've certainly negated your negative alright:pac: (Just kidding!).

If money is no object and you've no problems with getting a house and feeding a family in the future then go for it.


So Primary or Secondary????

If you love children then Primary teaching.

If you love your subject and wish every teenager would keep on an interest in it... then Secondary teaching.

(If you love yourself then University Lecturing).

Be careful about the subjects you pick though. Of course you want to play to your strengths, but jobs are easier to come by in some than in others.

sryanbruen

Should I go and ask my primary school's principal next year to see if he allows TY work experience and see if he has a job for me?

Zenify

sryanbruen wrote: »

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT MONEY. I love teaching and I do not care even if I wasn't paid a cent. (well obviously I do or I'd lose the will to live...). My Science class is the best class you could ever be in. My teacher has a dream job with it because we behave so good and are so quiet.

I was only trying to help. As I said if it's your dream don't let anyone stop you.

I only know a small bit about what it's like to be a teacher because some of my friends are young teachers, all of them had to move to the UK to get a job. They all hate what they do as well and regret becoming teachers, but that's also because the UK teaching system is awful. Hopefully there will be some newly qualified teachers on here as they will be the best people for you to talk to.

mtoutlemonde

sryanbruen wrote: »

I know I am only in third year. BUT, I like to plan my future careers early. I am having a really tough decision between primary or secondary school teaching. Just in case, I do primary teaching, I am doing HL Irish for LC - I find the subject easy anyways.

When I was in primary, some of the teachers let me have some experience due to my high IQ ('cause they knew I would do a good job). I did things like teach a class about Weather which is one of my many obsessions, correct tests (because I am the top speller... better than the teachers they said) and make quizzes. On October 26, 2011, I even got to be a game master going around the whole school playing games with classes and give them prizes for winning - it was an awesome day that we all called 'Board Game Day'.

The subjects that I have interest in are Music, Geography, French and Irish.

Here's what I would say on the first day of school to my class regardless of whether it's primary or secondary teaching:



As you can see, I am strict but fair. Many people consider that I am good with kids. Like I have brought kids to parks, swimming pools etc.

I am really struggling on which sort of teaching to choose, can someone help me?

Firstly, I acknowledge your interest but as other posters have said you are a little naïve. I do not agree with your stance regarding homework. In my opinion, homework is reinforcement of what was taught in the lesson. You may be considered 'cool' by the students but you will be far from 'cool' when a department inspection occurs and they wonder where the homework is. Also as well as the department, you will have parents complaining.

sryanbruen wrote: »

As for the experience, I only had proper experience in my primary, not in secondary - with the exception of two times when my Science teacher told me to correct the homework for HL students - since she knows about my love for teaching and how good I am at it - I'm not being self-centred or anything! Like I tutor students and give them a bit of "grinds" (not actual grinds... like I don't ask for money or anything). You will find many of my resources and posts on studyclix.ie - in which the moderators asked me would I like to have a bit of work experience on it next year in TY because of my large contributions to it. I once showed my powerpoints to my Geography teacher and she was very impressed - yes I actually make me own powerpoints.

So apart from my own tutoring, I haven't had any "proper" teaching experience (due to my age....) in your definition.

What else are you? You have not had any experience in teaching - making resources is IT skills and using the book / content that your teacher told you and you summarised. Making quizzes isn't teaching. Correcting tests isn't teaching either - the teacher was taking advantage as you probably got a good result and s/he was probably stuck for time and got an easy way out. Under no circumstances would I ask any of my students to correct tests I gave my students. In my opinion, it shows a lack of respect for his/her students and could also be putting you at harm as some students may not like you correcting their work and you could get a reputation for being 'the teacher's pet' so I wouldn't go shouting out too much that 'I corrected the science tests.'

sryanbruen wrote: »

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT MONEY. I love teaching and I do not care even if I wasn't paid a cent. (well obviously I do or I'd lose the will to live...). My Science class is the best class you could ever be in. My teacher has a dream job with it because we behave so good and are so quiet.

She may have a reputation in the school for being a strict teacher. You may be in a very good class that have respect - that doesn't always happen. Also your love of the subject makes the class enjoyable - I had the same experience with my science/maths teacher back in the day.

sryanbruen wrote: »

Should I go and ask my primary school's principal next year to see if he allows TY work experience and see if he has a job for me?

I would definitely do this, it will open your eyes. It happened some of students this year. I should also note that I'm answering as a post primary teacher who has been in a lot of schools and have built up a lot of experience. Best of luck with your career.

sryanbruen

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Firstly, I acknowledge your interest but as other posters have said you are a little naïve. I do not agree with your stance regarding homework. In my opinion, homework is reinforcement of what was taught in the lesson. You may be considered 'cool' by the students but you will be far from 'cool' when a department inspection occurs and they wonder where the homework is. Also as well as the department, you will have parents complaining.



What else are you? You have not had any experience in teaching - making resources is IT skills and using the book / content that your teacher told you and you summarised. Making quizzes isn't teaching. Correcting tests isn't teaching either - the teacher was taking advantage as you probably got a good result and s/he was probably stuck for time and got an easy way out. Under no circumstances would I ask any of my students to correct tests I gave my students. In my opinion, it shows a lack of respect for his/her students and could also be putting you at harm as some students may not like you correcting their work and you could get a reputation for being 'the teacher's pet' so I wouldn't go shouting out too much that 'I corrected the science tests.'



She may have a reputation in the school for being a strict teacher. You may be in a very good class that have respect - that doesn't always happen. Also your love of the subject makes the class enjoyable - I had the same experience with my science/maths teacher back in the day.



I would definitely do this, it will open your eyes. It happened some of students this year. I should also note that I'm answering as a post primary teacher who has been in a lot of schools and have built up a lot of experience. Best of luck with your career.

If you haven't seen me trying to "tutor" (not necessarily "teaching") on studyclix then why not see it now? Plus I am a teacher's pet. In my primary, I loved talking to teachers and hated being social (due to my difficulty of social skills). Then in secondary, I started becoming less of a teacher's pet. My poem (which I wrote myself) 'Teacher's Pet' here tells a little story about that (and how I found English difficult and that my teacher helped me significantly):

English is what I find the most difficult
But at least I know it'll give great life use
Having you teaching me is like a miracle
You're a great comedian for giving me the juice

Some people call me the teacher's pet
You are certainly not a dosser
We've had some good times, I will not forget
I find it boring but you try to make me an English master

You're nice, thin and very young
Without you, the school is no fun
It don't matter if I'm tired nor sleepy
However, you know I'm not trying to be weepy

You give me the key to success
Whether it is hard or boring
My behaviour's not the best
But I try my best while working

The funny fact was that nobody actually called me a teacher's pet... I just felt that way myself. Another funny fact is that I have NO INTEREST in Science (and that is the quiet class). In fact only TWO people in my class actually have an interest in it. I just do my work and get on with it.

I meant to also add that:

If I was a teacher, I would teach students NOT ONLY (that means "including" the curriculum) what is on the curriculum of the subject but also my knowledge of the subject. For example, if it's Irish, I will try and make them as fluent as possible into the language and show them that it is not a hard subject / language to do / to learn once you try (even if you have no interest in it). So I'll repeat myself there, I would teach students my knowledge of the subject as well as what is on the curriculum.

Now about the homework situation. I just think that homework causes stress among students, including myself. Like when my teachers give me homework (and I get tons of it), I do be like ffs because I study anyway?

I make my own notes, my own resources, my own grammar books full of exercises (for languages), my own exam papers (yes... not using past SEC papers - but they're styled like their questions). On the studyclix site, many students have said that I have helped them a lot.

Mod Snip, advertising

Are me tips any good? I want feedback.. thanks.

Plus ok thanks, I will ask then.

Stheno

Your grammar is appalling in your posts.

And you are coming across as someone in dreamland in terms of how you would approach teaching

tuisginideach

Did you use Google Translate for your poem? Lethal!

sryanbruen

tuisginideach wrote: »

Did you use Google Translate for your poem? Lethal!

No :pac:

sryanbruen

Stheno wrote: »

Your grammar is appalling in your posts.

And you are coming across as someone in dreamland in terms of how you would approach teaching

You shouldn't be surprised really. The first line of my poem

"English is what I find the most difficult"

Stheno

sryanbruen wrote: »

You shouldn't be surprised really. The first line of my poem

So perhaps focus on improving that than boasting about inconsequential achievements?

Thread closed for maintainebce.. back soom

spurious

Let's remember the query is from a third year student. I think we all wanted to change the world in third year.

sryanbruen, it's great you are considering teaching. I used to be a teacher. I used to love it. When I was your age, I had some great teachers who made me love their subjects. I wanted to be like them.

The reality though, was very far removed from what I expected. To my surprise, there were children attending schools who were not in the slightest bit interested in anything I or my colleagues wanted to teach. Their parents didn't care either. On more than one occasion I was met with abuse when I tried to get the parents to help me get some work from a child.

'Students' would play on phones, abuse teachers, abuse each other, never have books, never listen in class and then blame the teachers (or the 'crap school') when they could not pass exams.

All the time, my pay was being cut, more and more people were being jammed into the classes, more and more layers of nonsense were added to my day. I had to attend meetings where another adult (non-teaching), paid much more than me, would read me and my colleagues a Powerpoint presentation they had not even had the wit to change the date on, so I could see it was the same drivel had been spouted to teachers in other schools for the past number of months.

Then I had to start covering during my so-called free classes for colleagues who were out sick, instead of part-time teachers being paid to do it, as they used to be.

Eventually, I had enough and I retired early.

It is soul-destroying. I really would not recommend teaching in the current circumstances in Ireland to my worst enemy.

evolving_doors

OK, thread re-opened and warnings have been dished out, please do not comment on spelling, grammar or syntax, as per charter.

Although...I have a feeling that the OP would be happy to improve their English and is keen enough to take on board suggestions... but for the moment it's still against the rules.


Mod

spurious

Thread reopened.
Couple of warnings to folk who really should know better.

We'll have no more talk of spelling and grammar.

Please address the OP's question, ideally with some positives, since I was the harbinger of doom.

sryanbruen

Gebgbegb wrote: »

OK, thread re-opened and warnings have been dished out, please do not comment on spelling, grammar or syntax, as per charter.

Although...I have a feeling that the OP would be happy to improve their English and is keen enough to take on board suggestions... but for the moment it's still against the rules.


Mod

Yes like I'm doing ordinary level English and I'm still learning for crying out loud, thank you! Anyway, back to the point of this thread. Since, I would be giving too much fun to students, then I think I would do secondary teaching. I getting pretty annoyed with children (and I just broke my "no negative" promise :pac:) - though according to people, I'm pretty good with them. I have more of a thing for interest in subjects. However, I will confirm this when I do my work experience, including asking my primary school's principal if he would have a job for me.

sryanbruen

spurious wrote: »

Let's remember the query is from a third year student. I think we all wanted to change the world in third year.

sryanbruen, it's great you are considering teaching. I used to be a teacher. I used to love it. When I was your age, I had some great teachers who made me love their subjects. I wanted to be like them.

The reality though, was very far removed from what I expected. To my surprise, there were children attending schools who were not in the slightest bit interested in anything I or my colleagues wanted to teach. Their parents didn't care either. On more than one occasion I was met with abuse when I tried to get the parents to help me get some work from a child.

'Students' would play on phones, abuse teachers, abuse each other, never have books, never listen in class and then blame the teachers (or the 'crap school') when they could not pass exams.

All the time, my pay was being cut, more and more people were being jammed into the classes, more and more layers of nonsense were added to my day. I had to attend meetings where another adult (non-teaching), paid much more than me, would read me and my colleagues a Powerpoint presentation they had not even had the wit to change the date on, so I could see it was the same drivel had been spouted to teachers in other schools for the past number of months.

Then I had to start covering during my so-called free classes for colleagues who were out sick, instead of part-time teachers being paid to do it, as they used to be.

Eventually, I had enough and I retired early.

It is soul-destroying. I really would not recommend teaching in the current circumstances in Ireland to my worst enemy.

And thank you very much for this - and others who have tried to help me here. I am not forgetting about you all either!

Stheno

sryanbruen wrote: »

I have more of a thing for interest in subjects. However, I will confirm this when I do my work experience, including asking my primary school's principal if he would have a job for me.

If your interest is in a subject, and is very deep rooted, then potentially neither primary or secondary teaching is for you.

I work at times as a trainer in IT, and for the very high level courses that I deliver, I truly enjoy being able not just to impart information and knowledge to the students on my courses, but being able to put that into context, and apply current thinking to what we are talking about.

It may be something to consider.