Garage changed discs without notification

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

shietpilot

FortySeven wrote: »

As for not measuring discs. Rubbish. The first thing done to any car that comes into our workshop is a full vhc. everything is inspected and if flagged for replacement required are put under further scrutiny.

Exactly. A back alley independent won't bother doing half the stuff that dealership mechanics are required to go through. It was the same in the commercial vehicle place I worked in for a short while. The cars were inspected all over before work commenced. We often rang the customers to tell them that other things need changing too even though they brought the vehicle down for a service or brake pad job.

uck51js9zml2yt

My mechanic will video work done if its not clearly visible to the general punter.

millington

CiniO wrote: »

I had my front discs and pads recently changed on my civic.
It was done by small indy garage, and cost me €170.
I told the guy to get something reasonable. I asked for ATE or TRW. He couldn't source that quickly and I needed a car next day, so he fitted Mintex. I think they are very reasonable quality discs and pads.
I can't seem to see it anywhere below €120 so it meant that garage charged me €50 per labour. And that's about right.

Price OP was saying is mad.

So you had aftermarket pads and discs fitted to your Honda Civic by an independent garage for less than genuine OE rear pads & discs to a BMW by a main dealer? :eek: Who would have thought? :rolleyes:

Unless it's the same job on the same car in a main dealer than there is absolutely no point quoting irrelevant numbers. I put discs & pads on my Vectra for €44, does that mean the price you state is mad?

Anyway, the dealer must mean the disc was below the BMW specified tolerance not the legal one as there is none (mostly because all discs are different sizes). I can't believe they changed them without at least calling first :eek:

beauf

shietpilot wrote: »

Exactly. A back alley independent won't bother doing half the stuff that dealership mechanics are required to go through...

Maybe because its often unnecessary.

I'm sure there are good main dealers. My overall experience of them has been mostly dire. Whereas independents has been mainly good.

Regardless the issue in this thread isn't about dealers or independents. Standard practise should be to check with a customer before doing work that wasn't requested. Even if it's needs doing

beauf

FortySeven wrote: »

...The dealer in question looks to have made a mistake fitting the discs without prior approval, this should not happen but it may have been a communication issue between service desk and technician. This would not be normal practice in a dealership....

If someone doesn't follow normal practice with the basics, it has an impact on their credibility of what else they are doing. It maybe a simple mistake. But it happens a lot in general within the industry.

kirving

FortySeven wrote: »

Wow. Such hatred of bmw owners and dealers.

I work in a multi franchise dealership. Bmw authorised service and parts.

First. Labour rates.

Bmw technicians undergoe much more rigorous and ongoing brand specific training than you 50 Euro an hour indy. Indy stopped training at 24 Bmw technicians top up training yearly. They also complete online training constantly. They therefore command higher wages. Also, factor in the cost of maintaining a workshop to Bmw corporate standards..........

It’s certainly a lot of work, and I really don’t think that most of us believe that it’s bad value.

The issue that exists here has absolutely nothing to do with how much the OP’s care was babied in the main dealer, or the training the mechanics do.

The OP was charged for a job that they specifically did not ask to be done, and were fobbed off with some rubbish about a legal minimum thickness.

Still, I don’t believe it was a mistake to fit the new discs. You can be damn sure they wouldn’t have gone ahead with the repair if they thought there was a chance that the owner simply wouldn’t afford / couldn’t afford to pay for it.

beauf

You would assume there would be a worklist of some sort for the work to be done, and a check on it somewhere that the customer had approved it.

robtri

CiniO wrote: »

I had my front discs and pads recently changed on my civic.
It was done by small indy garage, and cost me €170.
I told the guy to get something reasonable. I asked for ATE or TRW. He couldn't source that quickly and I needed a car next day, so he fitted Mintex. I think they are very reasonable quality discs and pads.
I can't seem to see it anywhere below €120 so it meant that garage charged me €50 per labour. And that's about right.

Price OP was saying is mad.

robbery..... sure if you had a halfords trolley and a few tools, you have it done in less than an hour..... and have no need for this labour cost

Phil.x

FortySeven wrote: »

Wow. Such hatred of bmw owners and dealers.

I work in a multi franchise dealership. Bmw authorised service and parts.

First. Labour rates.

Bmw technicians undergoe much more rigorous and ongoing brand specific training than you 50 Euro an hour indy. Indy stopped training at 24 Bmw technicians top up training yearly. They also complete online training constantly. They therefore command higher wages. Also, factor in the cost of maintaining a workshop to Bmw corporate standards. With strict working practices and strict health and safety policies. Standard operating procedures dictated by Bmw mean the job takes longer . These procedures ensure the best care of your car. Then factor in the cost of the technology required to correctly maintain such complex machines, Rheingold diagnostics are expensive and iirc required for rewinding the rear caliper correctly.

As for not measuring discs. Rubbish. The first thing done to any car that comes into our workshop is a full vhc. everything is inspected and if flagged for replacement required are put under further scrutiny.

My workplace has massive overheads. Hence the Labour cost but you will get your car back fixed, clean, with an itemized invoice and a warranty backed by a multinational company. It will have been fixed by highly trained technicians with the correct tools and the most up to date technology.

The dealer in question looks to have made a mistake fitting the discs without prior approval, this should not happen but it may have been a communication issue between service desk and technician. This would not be normal practice in a dealership.

An example. Had a car in recently. Brakes were shot, discs worn very, very badly. Seat belt buckle on the backseat which was (not) securing one of the three toddler seats was inoperable. Owner presented with vehicle health check report opted instead to have mud flaps fitted. Mud flaps were fitted and another unsafe vehicle left the workshop.

Dealers are not the rip off you all think. You don't want to know how often we get cars in from Indies who are in over their heads or how often they call in to pick our technicians brains. Nothing against Indies, most are good at what they do and good value but without significant diagnostic investment in their business they are becoming more and more limited in the work they can do.

400 for disc s and pads fitted is good value for Bmw. There is a reason it is called a premium brand.

Fully agree, but a call would be nice, my honda garage calls if anything big is needed.
Cars take maintenance and I don't mind if I have it in my head of what's needed down the road, brakes, service, parts, etc.

Look at it this way, his car was looked over by a bmw mechanic and his rear brakes are now 100%.
Have a sense of pride in maintenance!

It's a bmw, it's a premium brand and priced likewise. I dont know if he bought secondhand but if you paid 50k new, would it really bug you to pay €400 to keep a very important part in New condition? Not me.

If it was secondhand didn't he do his homework on bmw service prices before buying it.

Deepman

Thanks for your various responses. From what you have collectively said I take the following

* All "Manufacturers" sub contract out the actual manufacture of their component parts to sub manufacturers and this means that if you can by pass BMW or Audi or whoever and identify the sub component manufacturer and buy directly from them then it is possible to save money.

* NEVER leave a Car in to a Garage without strict instructions that parts are not to be replaced without your express permission.

* Ideally a quote for the job should always be obtained.

* Garages , like Solicitors , Accountants etc charge you on a "per hour or part thereof" basis ie if a job overruns an hour by even 5 minutes you get charged for the whole of the second hour.This is how they make huge money.

* Always ask for used/replaced parts to be shown to you.

* If your car is ever in a bad or fatal accident the Insurance Company Loss Adjuster may well look for service record and enquire if Car was "roadworthy" because if it can be argued it was not then the Insurance Company can either void your policy or at least reduce the claim against it.

I have learned a lesson ....As far as I was concerned the on board computer only referred to pads being in need of replacement and nothing to do with discs. Discs do not need replacing every time pads are replaced.

mullingar

Deepman wrote: »

* If your car is ever in a bad or fatal accident the Insurance Company Loss Adjuster may well look for service record and enquire if Car was "roadworthy" because if it can be argued it was not then the Insurance Company can either void your policy or at least reduce the claim against it.

Completely disagree with that statement looking for a service record, your be lucky to find any used car with a full service record!.

Its the owners responsibility to ensure its roadworthy, not a garage.

The NCT is the State's way to confirm thats its safe/roadworthy on the day.

beauf

Also need to find a garage, dealer or independent, that informs you in advance of problems and doing work.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Deepman wrote: »

* All "Manufacturers" sub contract out the actual manufacture of their component parts to sub manufacturers and this means that if you can by pass BMW or Audi or whoever and identify the sub component manufacturer and buy directly from them then it is possible to save money.

There may be manufacturing differences between parts made by a supplier for sale to a car manufacturer and those which they sell under their own branding.

millington

Deepman wrote: »

I have learned a lesson ....As far as I was concerned the on board computer only referred to pads being in need of replacement and nothing to do with discs. Discs do not need replacing every time pads are replaced.

Thats because the on board computer has no way of checking disc wear. It cannot do everything. :eek:

KenjiOdo

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned that its good practice to change discs while doing pads..

Brother-in-law spent €900 on front & rear brakes (discs&pads) last year as a reference point (5 series @ BMW dealership).

As others have stated in this thread if you can't afford the image have another look in the mirror.

wonski

KenjiOdo wrote: »

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned that its good practice to change discs while doing pads..

Brother-in-law spent €900 on front & rear brakes (discs&pads) last year as a reference point (5 series @ BMW dealership).

As others have stated in this thread if you can't afford the image have another look in the mirror.

Not really. Discs last much longer than pads. You don't change them every time you replace pads.

jca

KenjiOdo wrote: »

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned that its good practice to change discs while doing pads..

Brother-in-law spent €900 on front & rear brakes (discs&pads) last year as a reference point (5 series @ BMW dealership).

As others have stated in this thread if you can't afford the image have another look in the mirror.

I'd say bmw love seeing your brother in law rolling up in his image machine.

George Dalton

wonski wrote: »

Not really. Discs last much longer than pads. You don't change them every time you replace pads.

In the majority of cases you should. But a lot of garages/people just fire on a set of pads and say sure it'll be grand. I regularly see cars with brand new pads fitted with discs that are only fit for the skip.

Without having actually added up the figures I would guess that the ratio of disc and pad to just pad changes in our place is something like 2:1 in favour of both disc and pad replacement.

bazz26

KenjiOdo wrote: »

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned that its good practice to change discs while doing pads..

Brother-in-law spent €900 on front & rear brakes (discs&pads) last year as a reference point (5 series @ BMW dealership).

As others have stated in this thread if you can't afford the image have another look in the mirror.

Changing brake discs every time you change your brake pads is daft and unnecessary imo. They can be inspected at the time of the pad change alright and then determined if they need changing or not. I also don't buy into the claim that if owning a premium brand car you should be prepared to spend blindly on maintaining it.

beauf

KenjiOdo wrote: »

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned that its good practice to change discs while doing pads.. .

You might want to check all the other stuff you've been charged for as "good practise".

beauf

George Dalton wrote: »

In the majority of cases you should. But a lot of garages/people just fire on a set of pads and say sure it'll be grand. I regularly see cars with brand new pads fitted with discs that are only fit for the skip.

Without having actually added up the figures I would guess that the ratio of disc and pad to just pad changes in our place is something like 2:1 in favour of both disc and pad replacement.

That seems a high ratio to me. But it depends on the vehicle (weight) and brakes some have heavier discs than others (weight saving). Also driver habits. Someone heavy on the brakes, will eat through them a lot faster than someone else. So it depends on the type of car and driver profile.

KenjiOdo

jca wrote: »

I'd say bmw love seeing your brother in law rolling up in his image machine.

This isn't solely about BMW, it's about people living beyond their means for what ever reason to keep up appearances/keeping up with the jones etc.

Fact of the matter is if you can't afford to keep your 'luxury' car road worthy - drop the image of pretending to be something your not i.e. having to means to afford an expsenive car yet complain over €400 bill.

And jca less of the uncouth comments about my family thank you!

beauf

The issue is having more money than sense.

jca

KenjiOdo wrote: »

This isn't solely about BMW, it's about people living beyond their means for what ever reason to keep up appearances/keeping up with the jones etc.

Fact of the matter is if you can't afford to keep your 'luxury' car road worthy - drop the image of pretending to be something your not i.e. having to means to afford an expsenive car yet complain over €400 bill.

And jca less of the uncouth comments about my family thank you!

I'm sure they do like seeing him arriving, what's uncouth about that? That's why I drive an octavia, image doesn't bother me. In saying that, I maintain it to the best.

KenjiOdo

KenjiOdo wrote: »

This isn't solely about BMW, it's about people living beyond their means for what ever reason to keep up appearances/keeping up with the jones etc.

Fact of the matter is if you can't afford to keep your 'luxury' car road worthy - drop the image of pretending to be something your not i.e. having to means to afford an expsenive car yet complain over €400 bill.

And jca less of the uncouth comments about my family thank you!

Just because you have the money to buy the car doesn't mean you like to piss money down the drain on unnecessary repairs.
If the garage told me the discs needed replacing I would be down myself to check the disc with my own hands before allowing some 19yr old BMW apprentice relieve my wallet of 500 quid for discs.

Unless you are braking like a lunatic I would imagine most discs will last at least 2 brake pad changes.

Also it doesn't have to be that expensive for discs. If they need replacing let BMW do the service and change the pads, source the official BMW discs yourself and get and indy to fit them or fit them yourself. Leave the receipt in the service book to show its been done.

KenjiOdo

beauf wrote: »

The issue is having more money than sense.

How did you figure that one out??

The cost of bread is the price you pay..

KenjiOdo

jca wrote: »

I'm sure they do like seeing him arriving, what's uncouth about that? That's why I drive an octavia, image doesn't bother me. In saying that, I maintain it to the best.

Yeah they get the banners & cake out... "Welcome home" ..

I know what you meant & so did you.. so stop with the pretence.

George Dalton

beauf wrote: »

That seems a high ratio to me. But it depends on the vehicle (weight) and brakes some have heavier discs than others (weight saving). Also driver habits. Someone heavy on the brakes, will eat through them a lot faster than someone else. So it depends on the type of car and driver profile.

Also depends on the average age and mileage of cars worked on. Obviously the average age of cars we see every day would be a lot higher than in a main dealer for example.

jca

KenjiOdo wrote: »

Yeah they get the banners & cake out... "Welcome home" ..

I know what you meant & so did you.. so stop with the pretence.

What pretence? He likes the image of driving a 5 series but whinges about paying the bills.... Standard fare in this lovely country of ours. I just don't get it myself.

KenjiOdo

jca wrote: »

What pretence? He likes the image of driving a 5 series but whinges about paying the bills.... Standard fare in this lovely country of ours. I just don't get it myself.

Are you this ignorant to everybody you meet?? I'd say your get craic altogether.

Two presumptions again in your last post.. Can your comprehend what you read before posting your ****e??

Toyotafanboi

KenjiOdo wrote: »

Are you this ignorant to everybody you meet?? I'd say your get craic altogether.

Two presumptions again in your last post.. Can your comprehend what you read before posting your ****e??

I think he's being reasonably logical.

Took a premium brand vehicle to the main dealer network, complains about the price (which was reasonable for the work carried out, albeit unauthorised, or so we are told).

Screams fur coat, no knickers.

runawaybishop

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I think he's being reasonably logical.

Took a premium brand vehicle to the main dealer network, complains about the price (which was reasonable for the work carried out, albeit unauthorised, or so we are told).

Screams fur coat, no knickers.

Where does he say the brother complained about the price?

beauf

KenjiOdo wrote: »

How did you figure that one out??..

The issue is unauthorized work. If someone is ok with paying for work that's not authorised they have more money than sense.

If someone has been told non standard items are standard service items. Alarm bells should be going off in someone's head.

Toyotafanboi

runawaybishop wrote: »

Where does he say the brother complained about the price?

I would be prone to picking things up wrong, but the OP's heavy useage of caps lock and exclamation points suggests that he was less than thrilled with the price.

... was annoyed that Discs were automatically replaced as well with job costing almost 400 Euros FOR JUST THE REAR ONES !!!!!

runawaybishop

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I would be prone to picking things up wrong, but the OP's heavy useage of caps lock and exclamation points suggests that he was less than thrilled with the price.

The posts you were looking at weren't in relation to the OP

Autosport

The garage should have phoned before replacing the disks. And when you paid the bill the invoice you received should have all parts that were replaced and all work carried out on your car. It's a lesson learned but next time you go to a garage ask them to phone if any major work is to be carried out.

9935452

Autosport wrote: »

The garage should have phoned before replacing the disks. And when you paid the bill the invoice you received should have all parts that were replaced and all work carried out on your car. It's a lesson learned but next time you go to a garage ask them to phone if any major work is to be carried out.

A friend of mine sent his car into a maindealer to get some work done.
He told the mechanic that if the price went above 600 to ring him as money was tight.
The bill ended up at 2k and the garage never bother to ring him.
He refused to pay the 2k, He paid the 600 as agreed.
The garage rang to get him to pay, he said he never authorised the work and if they wanted to put the old parts back on he wouldn't stop them and was told the old parts were long gone.
The garage started ringing him constantly and started becoming abusive.
My friend started recording the phone calls and informed the garage that he was recording the calls as they were also recording them from their end.
That was the last he heard from them

jca

runawaybishop wrote: »

The posts you were looking at weren't in relation to the OP

I was mistaken too I thought it was the op, sorry op. I didn't realise it was a troll.

jca

9935452 wrote: »

A friend of mine sent his car into a maindealer to get some work done.
He told the mechanic that if the price went above 600 to ring him as money was tight.
The bill ended up at 2k and the garage never bother to ring him.
He refused to pay the 2k, He paid the 600 as agreed.
The garage rang to get him to pay, he said he never authorised the work and if they wanted to put the old parts back on he wouldn't stop them and was told the old parts were long gone.
The garage started ringing him constantly and started becoming abusive.
My friend started recording the phone calls and informed the garage that he was recording the calls as they were also recording them from their end.
That was the last he heard from them

He was lucky they didn't stop him getting his car. I know they were completely wrong in allowing the tally to rise to that crazy amount but they could have just point blank refused to let him drive off the premises.

166man

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

KenjiOdo wrote: »

Are you this ignorant to everybody you meet?? I'd say your get craic altogether.

Two presumptions again in your last post.. Can your comprehend what you read before posting your ****e??

I think he's being reasonably logical.

Took a premium brand vehicle to the main dealer network, complains about the price (which was reasonable for the work carried out, albeit unauthorised, or so we are told).

Screams fur coat, no knickers.

Agreed. To spend 50k on a BMW and then argue when you bring it to the main dealer for brakes and expect a cheap price is just plain silly.

I do know people that will have the latest car or whatever with a fancy number plate but the thought of putting money into afterwards nearly causes them a hernia..!

If you want to drive the "flash" BMW then don't expect to pay low prices IF you bring it to a dealer.

Although the issue here is the garages fault for sure. They should really get in touch with the owner first before carrying out work.