Dog wont go out with dog walker !

reeta

Hi all, as per my previous posts I have an extremely nervous springer/cocker spaniel.She is very happy once she is with me or OH. She is well excercised (3-4 walks a day). I have now changed hours in my job and decided to invest in a dog walker, tbh more of a treat to myself so I dont have to go out with her as soon as I come in from work.

Here is the problem - she will not go out with the dog walker.She knows this lady and her dog (also springer/cocker cross). The lady's dog is very placid and doesnt go near my dog.However when she calls my dog gets all excited, jumps around, gives her the paw etc. but as soon as she gets the lead my dog hides under the table.

Any ideas/tips/advice.... if it doesnt work it isnt the end of the world but would really love to know when I am in work she is being excercised ! Thanks.

tk123

Is she holding out for a treat? Bailey is a divil for going into hiding when we get the leads or harnesses because he knows he'll be bribed if he holds out long enough!! One of my tricks used to be rattling my keys like we're going in the car but he caught on to me lol! I got fed up with him tricking me so now I don't put his harness or lead on until we're out in the hall with the kicthcen door closed so he can't go to his hiding places - under the table (with his head sticking out end and bum out the other :rolleyes:) or the crate in there He's more excited to go for a walk now and everyone is happier - especially anyone who may have been sitting at the table when he tried to squeeze under lol!

reeta

Hi tk123, Thanks for your reply. There is no problem with her coming for a walk with me, she absolutely loves it, but she wont go with anyone else. If I am at home she doesnt really want to go with my OH, she will go out for a few minutes but will want to come back.When I bring her out we are gone for hours sometimes

The problem here is trying to get her to go out with a dog walker I have found. She gets so excited when the lady goes into my house but then hides when the lady gets her lead. We all did a few walks together so Ella (my dog) would get to know her, but so far not working.... As Ella wont wiz or biz (yes I know how funny that sounds )in the garden or anywhere near the house it would be great if she would go out during the day with someone else. I dont want to stress her though so was wondering if I should persevere with the dog walker or not....

Nody

Only thing coming to mind (and someone like DBB would be far better to advise) would be some combination of resource guarding (you) and/or separation anxiety in play which would tie in with what you wrote about her character and you'd probably end needing professional help on how to address it with in house sessions.

spur

I haven't anything to offer as a solution but my last fella used to do this.

He was a very confident dog who just loved everyone and well used to be being walked by different family members - and he knew exactly which ones would take him for a walk and which ones he wouldn't even raise his head if they were passing him by! In general if they were walking him he was being "babysat" at my parents' place.

From time he was a pup I used to go on occasional walk with a friend and her dog - occasional as she had moved away. He loved her and the excitement in him when we got to her door!

From time he was about 2 he came to live with me at my new house and for the rest of his life I very regularly walked with another girl - often 5 nights a week! He knew her, liked her etc and I used to mind and walk her dog if she was away. So she offered to return the favour - mad excitement until they got outside the door and he realised I wasn't there - he put his paws up on the windowsill and started crying and wouldn't go any further! One more Sat morning she arrived very early at my house and I wasn't dressed so sent her off with him down the little lane near us and I'd be ready on way back for a long walk - he took off like the clappers and then realised I hadn't followed and came back and waited for me.

My other friend who he met about once a month to 6 weeks - if she stayed over and I went off to work, he'd walk fine with her. Ditto any family members that would call to my house to look after him if I was away - even a BIL whom he didn't really know that well at all.

I've never understood what it was about that particular girl - other than me the person he was most frequently walked with!!!

I had to accept defeat on it!

I'm going to follow this thread - he's gone a few years now but I often think of the oddness of it.

reeta

Thanks for replies. Yes I think I need more professional help with her. I want her to be content even when I am not around... The vet has always told me to just accept her oddness;) but I dont think she can be properly happy if she cannot cope without me. When we got her at 8 weeks we did everything by the book socialising her etc she just doesnt like most dogs but the ones she does, she adores !

I could write a book at her oddness (must have one of my socks in her mouth when someone comes in the house ), but if I could just get her relaxed with a dog walker she would benefit greatly. Will keep you updated !

DBB

I would think that this is connected to her anxious disposition, which I'd wager she was born with and was always going to be a bit of a worrier, no matter how much socialisation you did. There is a misconception out there that socialisation can cure all ills... It's vital, but it's nowhere near the full story when it comes to developing the dog's future behaviour.
My guess is that her anxiety brings with it a heavy dependence on routine and predictability. For her, having you there is a really important predictor and pacifier when it comes to going out for walks.
I'd suggest your dog walker spends a few days just sitting with her in the house for a while, without trying anything fancy. Then I'd encourage her to have the lead up her sleeve and to clip it onto your girlie whilst they're having their initial greeting session... Even if she loops the lead under the collar instead of trying to fumble looking for the ring! She might also consider, once the lead is on, to clip a much longer line onto the lead, so that if your girlie heads-up to hide, the walker can just sit and wait for her to come out.
I'd imagine that once she gets her out for a few walks, the problem will resolve itself.
Good luck!

reeta

DBB wrote: »

I would think that this is connected to her anxious disposition, which I'd wager she was born with and was always going to be a bit of a worrier, no matter how much socialisation you did. There is a misconception out there that socialisation can cure all ills... It's vital, but it's nowhere near the full story when it comes to developing the dog's future behaviour.
My guess is that her anxiety brings with it a heavy dependence on routine and predictability. For her, having you there is a really important predictor and pacifier when it comes to going out for walks.
I'd suggest your dog walker spends a few days just sitting with her in the house for a while, without trying anything fancy. Then I'd encourage her to have the lead up her sleeve and to clip it onto your girlie whilst they're having their initial greeting session... Even if she loops the lead under the collar instead of trying to fumble looking for the ring! She might also consider, once the lead is on, to clip a much longer line onto the lead, so that if your girlie heads-up to hide, the walker can just sit and wait for her to come out.
I'd imagine that once she gets her out for a few walks, the problem will resolve itself.
Good luck!

Thanks so much DBB for this advice. Agree that she will always be dependent on me, which is fine. I will do exactly as you have advised and get the walker to just sit with her in the house etc for a few days. My walker sees this as a major challenge which she intends winning .. Will keep you updated on events !

aonb

Great to have a walker who is interested enough in your dog to win the dog over - let us know how it goes!
I have a dog that is reluctant to walk with anyone except me - he will walk with my husband and daughter, but only if Im not there... Another dog would walk with any Tom/Dick or Harry who shows up with a leash!! If you are NOT there - will the dog go with the walker? If Im not around my dog will go more happily with a.n.other

reeta

My dog walker has just started this service in the Knocklyon area. She is fab and LOVES dogs. I have just received two pictures on my phone of my dog out in the back garden with her at lunchtime ! That is a major achievement, she got her out from under the kitchen table with pure perseverance (I think she actually got under the kitchen table and sat with her until she coaxed her out ) Work actually think I am losing the plot because I got so excited of a picture of my dog in the back garden

kitser

Hi Reeta. I would suggest that you get a few cesar Milan books and watch some of his videos. His premise that most dog problems are actually the bad habits of the owner - bad from a pet point of view, so don't take any offence as you are obviously a loving owner. The dog whisperer teaches you how to see the many things we do daily that keeps our pets from being relaxed, over exciting them, not setting boundaries, being tense on leash, so many little things that we do daily that affect our pets balance. A nervous dog is not a happy dog, and if you pamper her and shower her with love when nervous you are actually rewarding the nervousness. I hope you don't take offence, as none is intended, and that you look into correcting her nervousness. It's easier than you think, the dog whisperer is where to start. I had a hyper active aggressive terrier that I calmed down. It took a few months to sort, mainly because I wasn't being consistent at first. Cheers

VonVix

kitser wrote: »

Hi Reeta. I would suggest that you get a few cesar Milan books and watch some of his videos. His premise that most dog problems are actually the bad habits of the owner - bad from a pet point of view, so don't take any offence as you are obviously a loving owner. The dog whisperer teaches you how to see the many things we do daily that keeps our pets from being relaxed, over exciting them, not setting boundaries, being tense on leash, so many little things that we do daily that affect our pets balance. A nervous dog is not a happy dog, and if you pamper her and shower her with love when nervous you are actually rewarding the nervousness. I hope you don't take offence, as none is intended, and that you look into correcting her nervousness. It's easier than you think, the dog whisperer is where to start. I had a hyper active aggressive terrier that I calmed down. It took a few months to sort, mainly because I wasn't being consistent at first. Cheers

Cesar Milan's methods are outdated and scientifically incorrect, it's pretty harmful for the average pet owner to use any of his known methods (rolling a dog, yanking a dog, poking a dog, etc). If you want to learn more about dog behaviour and dog training, you are better off reading up the likes of Dr. Sophia Yin, Karen Pryor or Dr. Ian Dunbar's (newer) work, you are wasting your time reading Cesar Milan's books. With dog training/behaviour it's something you never stop studying, but the key is to learn from real professionals, not TV show presenters.

You cannot "reward" (i.e. encourage) nervousness/fear by comforting the animal. If you were terrified of spiders and I attempted to comfort you at the sight of them by telling you it's okay and they won't hurt you, would you suddenly feel MORE fearful?

kylith

VonVix wrote: »

You cannot "reward" (i.e. encourage) nervousness/fear by comforting the animal. If you were terrified of spiders and I attempted to comfort you at the sight of them by telling you it's okay and they won't hurt you, would you suddenly feel MORE fearful?

Unfortunately dogs don't speak English. Petting and cuddling a dog when it's nervous is rewarding it for its nervousness and essentially training it to be afraid. The best thing you can do with a nervous dog is to teach by example; be calm, assured, and relaxed around the stressful stimulus and reward wanted behaviour.

Blueboggirl

VonVix wrote:

You cannot "reward" (i.e. encourage) nervousness/fear by comforting the animal. If you were terrified of spiders and I attempted to comfort you at the sight of them by telling you it's okay and they won't hurt you, would you suddenly feel MORE fearful?

I have a bit of a problem with this. The difference is language! You can't compare the two. I genuinely do believe that comforting fearful behaviour will not resolve the problem. By comforting i mean petting, stroking, treats etc. I have found confident strong guidance, not comforting, to work. Thats my experience with two different dogs anyway.

VonVix

kylith wrote: »

Unfortunately dogs don't speak English. Petting and cuddling a dog when it's nervous is rewarding it for its nervousness and essentially training it to be afraid. The best thing you can do with a nervous dog is to teach by example; be calm, assured, and relaxed around the stressful stimulus and reward wanted behaviour.

I gave an example for a human to understand in a human situation.

Bolded part: where did you learn that?

http://fearfuldogs.com/myth-of-reinforcing-fear/
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/you-cant-reinforce-fear-dogs-and-thunderstorms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhpr3NO3TY
http://eileenanddogs.com/2014/06/28/reinforce-dogs-fears/
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2007/reinforcingfear.htm

reeta

kitser wrote: »

Hi Reeta. I would suggest that you get a few cesar Milan books and watch some of his videos. His premise that most dog problems are actually the bad habits of the owner - bad from a pet point of view, so don't take any offence as you are obviously a loving owner. The dog whisperer teaches you how to see the many things we do daily that keeps our pets from being relaxed, over exciting them, not setting boundaries, being tense on leash, so many little things that we do daily that affect our pets balance. A nervous dog is not a happy dog, and if you pamper her and shower her with love when nervous you are actually rewarding the nervousness. I hope you don't take offence, as none is intended, and that you look into correcting her nervousness. It's easier than you think, the dog whisperer is where to start. I had a hyper active aggressive terrier that I calmed down. It took a few months to sort, mainly because I wasn't being consistent at first. Cheers

Hi Kitser, while I appreciate your comments (and certainly dont take offence;) ) I certainly would not buy or watch anything to do with Cesar Milan. I find his methods outdated and sometimes cruel. He is currently being investigated for animal cruelty. I will certainly look into other ways of making my dog less nervous but not by Cesar Milans methods. Thanks

Blueboggirl

I would like to add (and im not agreeing/disagreeing with anyones methods) that Caesar Milan will not face charges of cruelty. A bulldog on his show bit a poor pig on the ear, as of April all charges have been dropped.

amber69

In relation to getting the dog walker out with your dog. I would go with the dog walker and hand over the lead when the dog is enjoying itself.

reeta

amber69 wrote: »

In relation to getting the dog walker out with your dog. I would go with the dog walker and hand over the lead when the dog is enjoying itself.

Hi, I have tried that, as soon as I hand over the lead, she stops completely and wont move until I take the lead back