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Swimming pool changing rooms

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    #62
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Different cultures have different social expectations. Ireland isn't backward with regard to nudity just because we don't share the same social customs as Germans. It's just a difference of culture and neither is any more backwards or progressive than the other in this regard.

    Thats not the case. The irish have , by way of decades of lecturing by the Catholic church developed a hangup about simple nudity, we associate this with " dirty "

    it means we are more backward, thats clear. its not a different of " culture" is a difference of indoctrination

    but perhaps you dont think that same sex marriage is " progressive" either


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    #63
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    Uriah Chubby Scrubber wrote: »
    Can't believe there is even a debate happening on this. A man should bring his daughter to the male changing rooms or a woman should bring her son to the female changing rooms. I have regularly seen small girls in male changing rooms with their dad's and it wouldn't appear out of the ordinary at all, I can even remember my own sisters changing in male changing rooms when my dad would bring them swimming.

    A grown man entering a female changing room or vice versa would be frowned upon to the level of getting thrown out of the pool I would imagine.

    Same goes for the toilet if a girl is too small to go to the toilet alone she should be brought to the male toilets by her father, again its a thing you will see regularly where a dad brings his daughter to the toilet in a male toilet.

    I dont agree with the toilet scenario. I think that if a little girl has to go to the toilet her Dad can bring her into the toilets. Anyone going in the girls toilet is going behind a closed and locked door. Mens toilets stink and are not as clean as the girls... I would hate the idea of a little girl in a mens toilet!!!


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    #64
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Different cultures have different social expectations. Ireland isn't backward with regard to nudity just because we don't share the same social customs as Germans. It's just a difference of culture and neither is any more backwards or progressive than the other in this regard.

    As I said 'I find Ireland very backward in this respect' .. you don't have to agree. I understand different cultures but think that this is more about the Catholic upbringing and people being afraid of a bit of nudity!


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    #65
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,777 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Thats not the case. The irish have , by way of decades of lecturing by the Catholic church developed a hangup about simple nudity, we associate this with " dirty "

    it means we are more backward, thats clear. its not a different of " culture" is a difference of indoctrination

    but perhaps you dont think that same sex marriage is " progressive" either


    Ahh would you stop! :pac:

    We're talking about social etiquette in swimming pools. It's just not something we do in Ireland. That has nothing to do with having hangups about nudity or one culture being backward and another being progressive on the basis of their social etiquette in swimming pools!


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    #66
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Thats not the case. The irish have , by way of decades of lecturing by the Catholic church developed a hangup about simple nudity, we associate this with " dirty "

    it means we are more backward, thats clear. its not a different of " culture" is a difference of indoctrination

    but perhaps you dont think that same sex marriage is " progressive" either

    Thanks. You put it much better than me!


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    #67
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Ahh would you stop! :pac:

    We're talking about social etiquette in swimming pools. It's just not something we do in Ireland. That has nothing to do with having hangups about nudity or one culture being backward and another being progressive on the basis of their social etiquette in swimming pools!

    the fact remains , our attitude to simple nudity is not progressive and is in fact "backward" and I have outlined the primary reasons for that

    social etiquette in swimming pools is merely a reflection on that .

    Thats fine , Im not saying the solution is everyone invades each others dressing rooms, but lets not fool ourselves its " cultural", It was carefully indoctrinated into the population


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    #68
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    AryaStark wrote: »
    I find Ireland (I am Irish!) so backward on this type of thing. I lived in Germany for a while and used to go to a sauna/pool a couple of times a week. Clothing was not allowed in the saunas and everybody was naked ... I used to feel so comfortable and love going.

    Come back to Ireland and people are wearing their bathing suits in the sauna, sweating all over them and then jumping into the pool ... so dirty.

    I think that in this case the Dad should bring his daughter into the male changing rooms.

    That is different. You go to sauna with expectation there will be naked people of both genders. However most times changing rooms are still separate for men and women. And you still wouldn't want someone of opposite sex there.


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    #69
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    dub_skav wrote: »
    She's the one getting changed, I would absolutely bring her to the female changing rooms.

    This is one of the most bizarre comments I've ever seen on here. Have you done this in the past without issue?


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    #70
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,777 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    BoatMad wrote: »
    the fact remains , our attitude to simple nudity is not progressive and is in fact "backward" and I have outlined the primary reasons for that

    social etiquette in swimming pools is merely a reflection on that .

    Thats fine , Im not saying the solution is everyone invades each others dressing rooms, but lets not present fool ourselves its " cultural", It was carefully indoctrinated into the population


    It was no such thing. That's a popular but absolutely nonsensical myth. Our attitude to nudity isn't based on any nonsense about religious indoctrination, it's simply based upon a difference in cultural norms. In France they make people wear speedos before they enter public pools, but in Lourdes, they whip the towel off you before they throw you into the pool naked! :D


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    #71
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I would say Irish attitude to nudity is a bit more conservative (I don't care about reason, Brits are not overly liberal either) but that has nothing to do with separate changing rooms.


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    #72
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    meeeeh wrote: »
    That is different. You go to sauna with expectation there will be naked people of both genders. However most times changing rooms are still separate for men and women. And you still wouldn't want someone of opposite sex there.

    Not in Ireland... unless you know one where I can go.

    I was a member in Clontarf gym for a couple of years and every few weeks somebody (a foreigner) would go to strip of in the sauna ... 30 seconds later an Irish person would jump up and run out to report them!

    I have no problem being naked in front of men or women (maybe because I am an atheist and not worried that it is a sin!!!!)


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    #73
    cowboyBuilder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    Wow !! only in Ireland would this be even a topic!!!

    obviously the parent takes the child into their own changing room ??

    Why the hell would a father bring his daughter into the female changing rooms ??


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    #74
    dub_skav
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    cowboyBuilder wrote: »
    Wow !! only in Ireland would this be even a topic!!!

    obviously the parent takes the child into their own changing room ??

    Why the hell would a father bring his daughter into the female changing rooms ??

    Why not??


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    #75
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    It was no such thing. That's a popular but absolutely nonsensical myth. Our attitude to nudity isn't based on any nonsense about religious indoctrination, it's simply based upon a difference in cultural norms. In France they make people wear speedos before they enter public pools, but in Lourdes, they whip the towel off you before they throw you into the pool naked! :D

    Most of the attitudes to nudity have been primarily espoused by the spread of western style " Christianity ". These are many sociological studies for example on the effects of such teachings in the South Pacific , where causal nudity or partial nudity was common.

    cultural " norms" are merely what people label a series of actions and views that societies take about certain things. They didnt get magically injected into the populace. They are primarily developed over time ( and they change over time too).

    Its clearly documented that in ireland, we have confused nudity and sex and a huge proportion of this " blame" can be placed at the feet of the Catholic church teachings that led to this confusion


    Not that this debate has a lot to do with the OPs problems, If the sexes wish to have separate changing areas, thats fine and that should be respected.


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    #76
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    cowboyBuilder wrote: »
    Wow !! only in Ireland would this be even a topic!!!

    obviously the parent takes the child into their own changing room ??

    Why the hell would a father bring his daughter into the female changing rooms ??

    Because the daughter is female. I don't agree with that but I can understand why the question is being asked.


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    #77
    cowboyBuilder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    adr wrote: »
    I am actually quite surprised by majority (so far) opting for a male changing room. So basically you are saying it’s better for a little girl to be surrounded by dangling junk than a dad minding his business , looking at the floor and helping his daughter to get changed being in female changing room? My point is an adult can look away, 4 years old girl cannot.

    Next question then. A dad needs to bring his 4 years old daughter to a toilet. Do they go to men’s or women’s toilet? Is it different to changing rooms and why?

    what ?
    oh nooo ... a penis is going to cause such damage to a little girls mind !!

    would ya cop on !!

    its not an orgy hes taking her into ..


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    #78
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    dub_skav wrote: »
    Why not??

    because the expectation is that adult and teen female children have is that the changing rooms will not permit male adults to be present

    whats the issue with that


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    #79
    dub_skav
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    This is one of the most bizarre comments I've ever seen on here. Have you done this in the past without issue?

    I have never been in the situation put forth in the OP for 2 reasons.
    1: All the pools I have used have been communal with cubicles.
    2: I have always been going swimming too.

    However, if I was in the situation as outlined then I would knock on the door to say I'm bringing my daughter in.
    If we were both going swimming and there were no cubicles I would probably bring her to the toilets to change and then bring her out

    Also, as I stated I do regularly bring her into ladies toilets.


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    #80
    dub_skav
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    BoatMad wrote: »
    because the expectation is that adult and teen female children have is that the changing rooms will not permit male adults to be present

    whats the issue with that

    No issue, so long as a suitable number of family rooms / cubicles are provided as an alternative.
    But that does not appear to be the case here.


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    #81
    cowboyBuilder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    dub_skav wrote: »
    Why not??

    Because a grown adult man would cause more discomfort in a womens changing room then a little girl in a mens!

    Not to mention the awkwardness the father would feel.

    Why do you think the opposite would be bad ? Do you really think its damaging to a child to see another adult changing ???


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    #82
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    AryaStark wrote: »
    Not in Ireland... unless you know one where I can go.

    I was a member in Clontarf gym for a couple of years and every few weeks somebody (a foreigner) would go to strip of in the sauna ... 30 seconds later an Irish person would jump up and run out to report them!

    I have no problem being naked in front of men or women (maybe because I am an atheist and not worried that it is a sin!!!!)

    Oh sorry I didn't mean in Ireland. My point was it has nothing to do with gender specific changing rooms.


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    #83
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    What?
    As this is a parenting forum and a thread about children I'll try not go too off topic. I get intimately waxed without fail every few weeks. I have strangers get very close to me. I have no problem walking into a beauty salon and taking my clothes off in front of a stranger for a spray tan or a massage. I go to a Physio once a week, I've no problem whipping my top off before he even leaves the room. I get dressed and undressed in front of my friends for nights out.
    I wouldn't say I'm uncomfortable with my body or with being naked at all.

    That said, when I'm in a public place, with lots of women around me that look better than me naked, of course I'll be a bit self conscious. She has no cellulite, she has abs, she has nice boobs. It's not that I'll be eyeing them up, I'm just aware a little bit more of my insecurities. I'd never in a million years answer the door in my pjs.

    Well all have situations were comfortable with, people were comfortable with. Just because you're not comfortable whipping your clothes off in a sauna doesn't mean you have hang ups about your body


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    #84
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    dub_skav wrote: »
    No issue, so long as a suitable number of family rooms / cubicles are provided as an alternative.
    But that does not appear to be the case here.

    yes we are discussing the situation where adults and teenagers are disrobing in communal areas segregated by gender


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    #85
    dub_skav
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    BoatMad wrote: »
    yes we are discussing the situation where adults and teenagers are disrobing in communal areas segregated by gender

    Indeed, and my position is that all of the people disrobing should be of the same gender.


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    #86
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    dub_skav wrote: »
    I have never been in the situation put forth in the OP for 2 reasons.
    1: All the pools I have used have been communal with cubicles.
    2: I have always been going swimming too.

    However, if I was in the situation as outlined then I would knock on the door to say I'm bringing my daughter in.
    If we were both going swimming and there were no cubicles I would probably bring her to the toilets to change and then bring her out

    Also, as I stated I do regularly bring her into ladies toilets.

    This is a substantial addendum to your original I'd just waltz in. I'd suggest you end up with 3 out comes here being told to feck off, finding an empty changing room or in major trouble when a woman who didn't hear you finds you there.


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    #87
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    so what does a transgender dad do ????????


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    #88
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    I think the answer to this is quite simple. Ask the swimming pool what their policy is.


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    #89
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    dub_skav wrote: »
    Indeed, and my position is that all of the people disrobing should be of the same gender.

    and that is not a correct interpretation of people sensitivities and ultimately that is what is up for debate here .

    Adult females and teenagers are not expecting to see a man in a women changing area, unless its clearly understood that is to be expected and therefore a consensual decision is taken to disrobe there.

    A young child has no such sensitives about viewing either male or female nudity and shouldn't have.

    hence the reason that its the adults sensitivities you abide by , not the kids


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    #90
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    dub_skav wrote: »
    Indeed, and my position is that all of the people disrobing should be of the same gender.

    Is your concern the child seeing naked men or men seeing a naked child?


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    #91
    dub_skav
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    BoatMad wrote: »
    and that is not a correct interpretation of people sensitivities and ultimately that is what is up for debate here .

    Adult females and teenagers are not expecting to see a man in a women changing area, unless its clearly understood that is to be expected and therefore a consensual decision is taken to disrobe there.

    A young child has no such sensitives about viewing either male or female nudity and shouldn't have.

    hence the reason that its the adults sensitivities you abide by , not the kids

    So taking this as your position, up to what age do you propose this solution and what happens after that age?

    I believe the best situation is the one that thankfully seems to be the norm now of communal rooms / areas with cubicles.


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