Swimming pool changing rooms

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dub_skav wrote: »

Indeed, and my position is that all of the people disrobing should be of the same gender.

And a man standing there surrounded by naked women and children would be uncomfortable and leave the majority of people feeling very vulnerable

One eyed Jack

BoatMad wrote: »

and that is not a correct interpretation of people sensitivities and ultimately that is what is up for debate here .

Adult females and teenagers are not expecting to see a man in a women changing area, unless its clearly understood that is to be expected and therefore a consensual decision is taken to disrobe there.

A young child has no such sensitives about viewing either male or female nudity and shouldn't have.

hence the reason that its the adults sensitivities you abide by , not the kids

You really can't state that as though it's a matter of fact. Children are as self-conscious of themselves and their body image just as much as adults are. It's why I despair when I hear nowadays of boys in schools wearing tee-shirts when they go to the swimming pool, while the girls are showing off in bikini swimwear.

I know with my own child who from an early age didn't want to accompany his mother into the women's changing rooms is because he prefers to be independent. He is also self-conscious about his privacy and simply doesn't feel this great need to parade around naked, nor does he feel like he's particularly oppressed or has any hang ups about nudity because he wants to wear a swimming togs in the pool.

dub_skav

eviltwin wrote: »

Is your concern the child seeing naked men or men seeing a naked child?

The child seeing naked men.
So, I suppose I could be accused of prudishness in the same way as many on here.

However, having done a quick google search on this it seems that women in a mens / boys changing room (as parent or school supervisor) is reasonably common, while men in girls / womens changing rooms is not.
I see nothing wrong with adult men or women accompanying / supervising children that allows the child to use the correct changing room for them.

A fully clothed adult in a changing room in an obvious supervisory capacity should not be viewed as a problem in my opinion.

BoatMad

dub_skav wrote: »

So taking this as your position, up to what age do you propose this solution and what happens after that age?

I believe the best situation is the one that thankfully seems to be the norm now of communal rooms / areas with cubicles.

I would draw the line at the point where children can dress and undress without aid.

around 8-9-10 in general , in the normal circumstance

I am the father of two girls. I am aware of all the issues , They have during their childhood been exposed to all sorts of casual "simple" nudity. However as teenagers and adults they retain their " cultural " sensitivities and that should be respected. No right thinking man, should or would enter a communal gender separated female disrobing areas , unless consent was obtained beforehand

BoatMad

dub_skav wrote: »

The child seeing naked men.
So, I suppose I could be accused of prudishness in the same way as many on here.

However, having done a quick google search on this it seems that women in a mens / boys changing room (as parent or school supervisor) is reasonably common, while men in girls / womens changing rooms is not.
I see nothing wrong with adult men or women accompanying / supervising children that allows the child to use the correct changing room for them.

A fully clothed adult in a changing room in an obvious supervisory capacity should not be viewed as a problem in my opinion.

As a long time swimmer, I cannot remember the last time I saw a clothed women in a communal mens changing area.

I have often seen fathers with young sons or daughters, which is entirely appropriate

why you would feel a child well under the age of puberty should be shielded from either sexes genitalia is beyond me, I mean this in the context of " simple " nudity. ( i.e. there is no sexual connotation whatsoever )

eviltwin

dub_skav wrote: »

The child seeing naked men.
So, I suppose I could be accused of prudishness in the same way as many on here.

However, having done a quick google search on this it seems that women in a mens / boys changing room (as parent or school supervisor) is reasonably common, while men in girls / womens changing rooms is not.
I see nothing wrong with adult men or women accompanying / supervising children that allows the child to use the correct changing room for them.

A fully clothed adult in a changing room in an obvious supervisory capacity should not be viewed as a problem in my opinion.

Why is that? Do you think it will damage the child? Do you think the men will have an issue being seen by a female?

LeinsterDub

dub_skav wrote: »

The child seeing naked men.

Better she see a few naked men than her father being asked to leave / arrested.

I mean imagine your in the middle of the women's changing room and you absent mindedly take out your phone?

intheclouds

dub_skav wrote: »

Indeed, and my position is that all of the people disrobing should be of the same gender.

Are you for real?

There would be something very wrong with a man who thought it ok to go into a female only changing room because the child he was accompanying was female.

ted1

adr wrote: »

I am actually quite surprised by majority (so far) opting for a male changing room. So basically you are saying it’s better for a little girl to be surrounded by dangling junk than a dad minding his business , looking at the floor and helping his daughter to get changed being in female changing room? My point is an adult can look away, 4 years old girl cannot.

Next question then. A dad needs to bring his 4 years old daughter to a toilet. Do they go to men’s or women’s toilet? Is it different to changing rooms and why?

What do you think a judge would think of a make walking in to a female changing room that is full of naked 8,9,10,11,12,13,14 and 15 year olds.

It gave no problem bringing my daughters to the male bathroom

ThisRegard

dub_skav wrote: »

Why not??

Because it's a womens changing room, not a unisex or communal. So therefore women within that changing room have a reasonable expectation of privacy and should be safe in the knowledge that a man won't come enter.

Would you like a man like yourself walking in and seeing your daughter naked when she's in her early teens?

BoatMad wrote: »

As a long time swimmer, I cannot remember the last time I saw a clothed women in a communal mens changing area.

I see it weekly. But in fairness the only people swimming at the time are kids.

_Brian

I was looking on some swim pool websites recently and I think on the timetable for Kells it warns that there may be adult women in the male changing rooms during open sessions.

I thought it very odd.

I know one pool where there were complaints as a woman was bringing her 13yo son into the ladies changing rooms, said he couldn't dry himself properly. He managed very well after that.

BoatMad

ThisRegard wrote: »

I see it weekly. But in fairness the only people swimming at the time are kids.

Thats entirely different , I have seen kids swimming sessions where mothers in particular are in both dressing rooms attending kids . Adults are usually warned in advance or the session is solely for kids use only

_Brian

ThisRegard wrote: »

Because it's a womens changing room, not a unisex or communal. So therefore women within that changing room have a reasonable expectation of privacy and should be safe in the knowledge that a man won't come enter.

Would you like a man like yourself walking in and seeing your daughter naked when she's in her early teens?



I see it weekly. But in fairness the only people swimming at the time are kids.

You hit the nail on the head. My 13yo daughter does maybe 5-6 swim sessions a week in various pools and it never happens that adult males go into ladies changing rooms. I'd be making a serious complaint if it were to happen. It would be totally inappropriate.

Neyite

dub_skav wrote: »

I have never been in the situation put forth in the OP for 2 reasons.
1: All the pools I have used have been communal with cubicles.
2: I have always been going swimming too.

However, if I was in the situation as outlined then I would knock on the door to say I'm bringing my daughter in.

Why don't you try it and let us know how you get on?

I was at the pool yesterday with my son and my partner. My son is 4 and came in with me. Women were topless, bottomless, or in varying stages of undress around us. He did not bat an eyelid. A young child is usually well used to seeing an adult female's body - he follows me into the loo and shower all the time. He pointed out a topless women to me while there, and it was to tell me that her hair-dryer was pink - that's' what a child that age finds interesting. I highly doubt an adult male would be more interested in her hair-dryer. He's too young to fully understand the adult perception of modesty or nudity really. But an adult male would.

And I'd be willing to bet that if you walked into the changing room yesterday, daughter or not with you, you'd cause uproar and at best, get thrown out by management. Some places might even be tempted to call the Gardai.

Bringing a female child into a female loo is fine with me. Preferable in fact - I'd understand a dad not wanting to walk his daughter past men at the urinal and into a potentially stinky cubicle. Any disrobing I do in a toilet is not outside of the cubicle, so you are unlikely to see any nudity the way you would in a changing room.

That's the key difference here. Women in toilets do not strip in front of each other the way they do in a communal changing room.

BoatMad

That's the key difference here. Women in toilets do not strip in front of each other the way they do in a communal changing room.

of course, and I suspect that dub_skav is debating a point that he knows is false and is doing so to prolong a make belief argument

livedadream

i have to say i find it weird that a woman would accompany a male child into the male changing room but not the other way around ie:a man bringing his daughter into the female changing room,

do we think he's coerced the child to go for a swim do he can have a perv?

i know when i was taken swimming my dad would bring us into the mens changing room and my mom into the female depending on who took us, i dont remember being aware of mens junk flying about.

the same as toilets, i was frequently taken into the mens as a child if i was with my dad...

BoatMad

i have to say i find it weird that a woman would accompany a male child into the male changing room but not the other way around ie:a man bringing his daughter into the female changing room,

other then designated kids swimming ,Ive not seen a women in a mens changing room, kid or no kid

livedadream

BoatMad wrote: »

other then designated kids swimming ,Ive not seen a women in a mens changing room, kid or no kid

yeah me too, i swim frequently now and my gym doesnt have a family friendly area,

i often seen kids with their moms in the changing room, i cant speak for dads but i assume its the same, you go with whatever parent takes you swimming if your not able to go on your own...

dub_skav

As I have stated, this specific issue has not come up for me to date as all the pools we have used have had unisex cubicles.

So, possibly I was a little flippant to begin with and will give this further thought.

However, I will definitely still bring my daughter to a ladies toilet and to a cubicled ladies changing room. As I have stated, she is the one changing, so as she gets older I can choose maybe to walk her in and then leave whenever she is comfortable, without having to decide if this is the day to send her into the "other" changing room alone.

On the open, communal changing room, maybe I will change my opinion, but probably I will just avoid pools with no family changing room.

livedadream

dub_skav wrote: »

However, I will definitely still bring my daughter to a ladies toilet and to a cubicled ladies changing room. As I have stated, she is the one changing, so as she gets older I can choose maybe to walk her in and then leave whenever she is comfortable, without having to decide if this is the day to send her into the "other" changing room alone.

you realise the changing rooms are split by gender for a reason?

just because you are not changing doesnt mean you are welcome to wander into the opposite sexes changing rooms, i think if you ever did try this you would find very little understanding for your 'well my daughter is changing' excuse.

ThisRegard

dub_skav wrote: »

However, I will definitely still bring my daughter to a ladies toilet and to a cubicled ladies changing room. As I have stated, she is the one changing, so as she gets older I can choose maybe to walk her in and then leave whenever she is comfortable, without having to decide if this is the day to send her into the "other" changing room alone.

And what of any other young girl, not comfortable with your presence? Damn them? If would expect if my wife was in their with my daughter when she's older to demand you leave, and if I saw you enter myself while waiting for my daughter to come out, I'd say something to you.

BoatMad

ThisRegard wrote: »

And what of any other young girl, not comfortable with your presence? Damn them? If would expect if my wife was in their with my daughter when she's older to demand you leave, and if I saw you enter myself while waiting for my daughter to come out, I'd say something to you.

I think , now you have strayed over the line

The man in bringing his young daughter into female toilets is not the same as bringing her into a disrobing space.

given the state of many mens toilet cubicles , I can easily understand the reason for doing so.

A man on his own , of course has no reason to be there

ThisRegard

I'm talking about changing rooms, not toilets.

dub_skav wrote: »

As I have stated, she is the one changing, so as she gets older I can choose maybe to walk her in and then leave whenever she is comfortable, without having to decide if this is the day to send her into the "other" changing room alone.

On the open, communal changing room, maybe I will change my opinion, but probably I will just avoid pools with no family changing room.

dub_skav

ThisRegard wrote: »

And what of any other young girl, not comfortable with your presence? Damn them? If would expect if my wife was in their with my daughter when she's older to demand you leave, and if I saw you enter myself while waiting for my daughter to come out, I'd say something to you.

Certainly not would I believe "damn them" as you say, I would be walking straight to a cubicle with my daughter and not hanging around.

But comfort of the child is exactly my problem. A number of people have said that it is perfectly fine to bring a young girl (to be fair nobody has really stated how old) into a male changing room, with nude male strangers. You then bring up a young girl uncomfortable with a clothed male present (walking to and from cubicle in my case).

I believe that everybody is far too quick to come to the conclusion that the only wrong answer here is man in female changing area, while girl in male changing area and even woman in male changing area (supervising boy) is fine, or certainly less of a problem for some reason.

As I have stated, I believe the best answer is unisex with cubicles for all, but in the absence of that I don't think girls in male changing area is the ideal answer either.

ThisRegard

It's all age relative. When your daughter is at the age where you feel it's inappropriate to bring her into the male dressing room, then it's in appropriate for you to accompany her into the female one, no matter how brief the visit is or you're just walking through it to get to a cubicle.

It's simply not your place.

deandean

It's a good topic OP.

For a few years I brought my young daughter to swimming lessons. She needed help changing.

A couple of times I brought her into the male changing room, but once two boys complained about a girl being in there.

Thereafter I always went into the female changing rooms with her. TBH there wasn't a problem because all the kids were of a similar age range, and you'd only have parents & kids for that hour's class in that changing room and after a while we got to know each other. Usually it was the gender of the kid that determined what changing room the adult would use.

So yes I (a male) helped my daughter change in the female changing room. There's a bit of a technique to it - I just kept to the task at hand and i didn't look around.

Best solution though, is to teach your child to change him/herself at the earliest opportunity. It'll take them maybe 20 minutes at first, but they slowly improve.

livedadream

dub_skav wrote: »

Certainly not would I believe "damn them" as you say, I would be walking straight to a cubicle with my daughter and not hanging around.

But comfort of the child is exactly my problem. A number of people have said that it is perfectly fine to bring a young girl (to be fair nobody has really stated how old) into a male changing room, with nude male strangers. You then bring up a young girl uncomfortable with a clothed male present (walking to and from cubicle in my case).

I believe that everybody is far too quick to come to the conclusion that the only wrong answer here is man in female changing area, while girl in male changing area and even woman in male changing area (supervising boy) is fine, or certainly less of a problem for some reason.

As I have stated, I believe the best answer is unisex with cubicles for all, but in the absence of that I don't think girls in male changing area is the ideal answer either.

to be fair, numerous people have said that the age they think kids are able to go in alone is about 7-8.

I also said the total opposite about what you said about that i believe it would be just as strange to find a grown woman with her male child standing around in the male changing room as a man in the womens.

One eyed Jack

dub_skav wrote: »

Certainly not would I believe "damn them" as you say, I would be walking straight to a cubicle with my daughter and not hanging around.

But comfort of the child is exactly my problem. A number of people have said that it is perfectly fine to bring a young girl (to be fair nobody has really stated how old) into a male changing room, with nude male strangers. You then bring up a young girl uncomfortable with a clothed male present (walking to and from cubicle in my case).

I believe that everybody is far too quick to come to the conclusion that the only wrong answer here is man in female changing area, while girl in male changing area and even woman in male changing area (supervising boy) is fine, or certainly less of a problem for some reason.

As I have stated, I believe the best answer is unisex with cubicles for all, but in the absence of that I don't think girls in male changing area is the ideal answer either.

I don't think young girls in a male changing area is the ideal either myself, but I wouldn't then go and say that a man in a women's changing area goes anywhere near addressing that problem. I wouldn't have a problem with a woman in the men's changing area personally (I'd likely be all for it tbh ), but the idea of me going into the women's changing area? I'd be lucky to get out with my man bits intact!! :pac:

dub_skav

dub_skav wrote: »

.

I believe that everybody is far too quick to come to the conclusion that the only wrong answer here is man in female changing area, while girl in male changing area and even woman in male changing area (supervising boy) is fine, or certainly less of a problem for some reason.

I would have the same opinion on both (and I think most would) an adult male should never enter a female changing room and an adult female should never enter a male changing room. For some reason society takes a much dimmer view on the male in the female changing room but this should not be the case.

There should be no question at all about it a child under say 8 should go into the changing room with the gender of their parent not their own gender. After 8 or 10 (whenever they can comfortably dress and dry themselves) they can they go alone into the changing room of their gender.

I'm not a parent yet but I would feel equally as uncomfortable going into a female toilet to bring a female child to the toilet and would always bring her into the male toilet as I don't believe men should be entering female toilets either. I often see small girls in the men's toilet with their father and it's something I see as perfectly normal.

intheclouds

Uriah Chubby Scrubber wrote: »

For some reason society takes a much dimmer view on the male in the female changing room but this should not be the case.

Peeping Tom?

Cant say I ever heard of a Peeping Thomasina.