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Swimming pool changing rooms

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    #122
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Peeping Tom?

    Cant say I ever heard of a Peeping Thomasina.

    of more a fact that men are far more agreeable to be viewed in the buff by a fit women ( or any women !) and less likely to complain !!!!:P


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    #123
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    dub_skav wrote: »
    But comfort of the child is exactly my problem. A number of people have said that it is perfectly fine to bring a young girl (to be fair nobody has really stated how old) into a male changing room, with nude male strangers. You then bring up a young girl uncomfortable with a clothed male present (walking to and from cubicle in my case)..

    You've stated that your preference is to bring your daughter into the women's changing room because you feel that its inappropriate for her to be naked in front of grown men, correct?

    So with that in mind, why do you think it appropriate for you, a grown man, to walk into a changing room that has the naked daughters of other parents and expect them to be ok with you being around their naked daughters.

    Bearing in mind that your daughter is still more or less a toddler and the girls in the women's changing rooms are all ages and at varying stages of puberty and development.

    Furthermore, when your daughter is 13 and has budding breasts and pubic hair starting, and is changing alone because you are in the mens one, are you as a parent going to be ok with a dad walking in with his 4 year old daughter to change her beside your daughter? Have a think about that.


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    #124
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,777 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Peeping Tom?

    Cant say I ever heard of a Peeping Thomasina.


    That's certainly a common assumption alright, on both counts though in fairness. There are far less Peeping Toms about than are generally perceived, and far more Peeping Thomasina's about than are generally perceived.

    It's simply down to cultural bias is the reason why men are generally perceived to present more of a threat to women and children, than any perceived threat presented by women to men and children.


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    #125
    dub_skav
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    Neyite wrote: »
    You've stated that your preference is to bring your daughter into the women's changing room because you feel that its inappropriate for her to be naked in front of grown men, correct?

    So with that in mind, why do you think it appropriate for you, a grown man, to walk into a changing room that has the naked daughters of other parents and expect them to be ok with you being around their naked daughters.

    Bearing in mind that your daughter is still more or less a toddler and the girls in the women's changing rooms are all ages and at varying stages of puberty and development.

    Furthermore, when your daughter is 13 and has budding breasts and pubic hair starting, and is changing alone because you are in the mens one, are you as a parent going to be ok with a dad walking in with his 4 year old daughter to change her beside your daughter? Have a think about that.

    No, that's not correct. I stated I was uncomfortable with her seeing naked men.
    Also, I have (on consideration) stated that an open plan changing area is a different matter.
    I have also stated that I do not believe either situation is ideal - young girl in male changing room, or man in female changing room.


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    #126
    adr
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭adr


    Bloody hell, I guess I should consider myself lucky I wasn’t arrested… It seems most of you would see me as a perv who used his 4 yo daughter as an excsue to get into female changing room rather than a caring dad who wanted to protect his daughter from huffing and puffing men wiping their crotch with a towel at her eye level.

    So to sum this things up - children up to the age of 10 are sexless, sensitivity of a parent being uncomfortable with naked opposite sex adults sorrounding their child does not matter?


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    #127
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    dub_skav wrote: »
    No, that's not correct. I stated I was uncomfortable with her seeing naked men.
    Also, I have (on consideration) stated that an open plan changing area is a different matter.
    I have also stated that I do not believe either situation is ideal - young girl in male changing room, or man in female changing room.

    You've said earlier in this thread that you would knock on the door and bring your daughter in to a female communal changing room. Have you changed your mind on this?

    You've also said that you'd bring her into the females changing room but in a cubicle. Do you still hold that view?


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    #128
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    adr wrote: »
    Bloody hell, I guess I should consider myself lucky I wasn’t arrested… It seems most of you would see me as a perv who used his 4 yo daughter as an excsue to get into female changing room rather than a caring dad who wanted to protect his daughter from huffing and puffing men wiping their crotch with a towel at her eye level.

    So to sum this things up - children up to the age of 10 are sexless, sensitivity of a parent being uncomfortable with naked opposite sex adults sorrounding their child does not matter?

    What about the sensitivity of the women and girls using the women's changing room who have a reasonable expectation that adult males won't invade their privacy or are you one of those parents who think your child supersedes everyone else's comfort?


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    #129
    dub_skav
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    Neyite wrote: »
    You've said earlier in this thread that you would knock on the door and bring your daughter in to a female communal changing room. Have you changed your mind on this?

    You've also said that you'd bring her into the females changing room but in a cubicle. Do you still hold that view?

    To the first, I stated on thread that this scenario had never arisen but having given further thought I would probably change my course of action.

    On the second, yes I still hold that view.


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    #130
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    adr wrote: »
    Bloody hell, I guess I should consider myself lucky I wasn’t arrested… It seems most of you would see me as a perv who used his 4 yo daughter as an excsue to get into female changing room rather than a caring dad who wanted to protect his daughter from huffing and puffing men wiping their crotch with a towel at her eye level.

    So to sum this things up - children up to the age of 10 are sexless, sensitivity of a parent being uncomfortable with naked opposite sex adults sorrounding their child does not matter?

    So to sum things up - You think dads should bring daughters into the women's changing room. 10 years from now when your daughter is changing alone in there, will you be just as understanding to the caring dad who does brings his 4 year old in to get her changed beside your naked teen daughter - I mean, he's clothed so its ok, right?


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    #131
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    dub_skav wrote: »
    To the first, I stated on thread that this scenario had never arisen but having given further thought I would probably change my course of action.

    On the second, yes I still hold that view.

    I've seen various configurations but usually in my experience women usually tend to prefer cubicles to change in over communal areas. So the cubicles that I remember seeing were always in constant use. Queues for them even. I dont think I ever saw any of them unoccupied.

    When you've got a child to get dried before they get cold, you cant wait around for them, so I think you'd find yourself in an awkward situation there.


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    #132
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dub_skav wrote: »
    On the second, yes I still hold that view.

    If the gender specific changing rooms have cubicles then why wouldn't you bring her into the men's. She is in a cubicle so not going to be seen or see naked men (not that it makes any difference for small child) but instead go into a cubicle in the female changing room where you shouldn't be as a man and will make women feel uncomfortable and possibly even get reported.


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    #133
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    adr wrote: »
    It seems most of you would see me as a perv who used his 4 yo daughter as an excsue to get into female changing room?

    I don't think people here think you're a perv but have rightly pointed out all it takes is for one stranger to consider you a perv and you could end up in very serious trouble. As I've said for example you are reading an email as you walk into the female changing room and then you've a lot of explaining to do.


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    #134
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,777 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    adr wrote: »
    Bloody hell, I guess I should consider myself lucky I wasn’t arrested… It seems most of you would see me as a perv who used his 4 yo daughter as an excsue to get into female changing room rather than a caring dad who wanted to protect his daughter from huffing and puffing men wiping their crotch with a towel at her eye level.

    So to sum this things up - children up to the age of 10 are sexless, sensitivity of a parent being uncomfortable with naked opposite sex adults sorrounding their child does not matter?


    In fairness, I don't think anyone here actually said that, or anything even close to it for that matter. In fact I think most men would actually show more sensitivity for your situation under those circumstances than women would. Women would be more likely to think you're a perv than men would, men would likely think of you as one of these "new dad" types.

    If men were to hear that your reasons for not bringing your daughter into the men's changing room was because you wanted to protect her from men huffing and puffing and wiping their crotch with a towel at her eye level... they're likely to have a lot less sympathy for your circumstances as you're making assumptions about them. In that case I'd certainly be suggesting you use the women's changing rooms so I wouldn't have to be putting up with that shyte! :rolleyes:


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    #135
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    adr wrote: »
    Bloody hell, I guess I should consider myself lucky I wasn’t arrested… It seems most of you would see me as a perv who used his 4 yo daughter as an excsue to get into female changing room rather than a caring dad who wanted to protect his daughter from huffing and puffing men wiping their crotch with a towel at her eye level.

    Yes, I would think you ARE quite lucky you have not been arrested - or at least had the Guards called.

    Your child is not the centre of the universe, a full changing room of women would be uncomfortable with you in there and would be well within their rights to have you removed.


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    #136
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Yes, I would think you ARE quite lucky you have not been arrested - or at least had the Guards called.

    Your child is not the centre of the universe, a full changing room of women would be uncomfortable with you in there and would be well within their rights to have you removed.

    Walking in on women is dodgy enough, but deliberately walking in on disrobing underage girls would be the biggest concern, and I reckon that is what would really trigger the Gardai being called or notified.


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    #137
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,569 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    I think an adult male going into a ladies changing area where ladies and young teen girls are potentially undressed is way way beyond acceptable. I wouldn't immediately deem this person to be a perve but I would seriously question the judgement of such person and if I came across it I would be making a formal complaint to management and most likely be asking for Garda envolent.
    I mean how would we know that this person wasn't on the sex offenders register, the only way I could be sure was have Garda involvement.

    Where the security of my daughters is concerned I wouldn't be taking chances.


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    #138
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Why are men not allowed in the womens but women are allowed in the mens? That's a bit sexist and unfair. Are we of a more delicate disposition or something? Either the opposite sex is allowed in or not, there shouldn't be double standards though.


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    #139
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Why are men not allowed in the womens but women are allowed in the mens? That's a bit sexist and unfair. Are we of a more delicate disposition or something? Either the opposite sex is allowed in or not, there shouldn't be double standards though.

    I dunno about other women but I wouldn't dream of setting foot in a mens changing room.


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    #140
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    I wouldn't go into a male dressing room and I'd complain and ask for the garda to be called if an adult male entered the women's changing room also.


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    #141
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,569 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Why are men not allowed in the womens but women are allowed in the mens? That's a bit sexist and unfair. Are we of a more delicate disposition or something? Either the opposite sex is allowed in or not, there shouldn't be double standards though.

    I would agree but it wouldn't bother me if a lady came in and my own priority would be for the welfare of my daughters.

    Any man doing this is taking a serious risk, it shows bad judgement, where else is this person displaying poor judgement ?


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    #142
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I do feel bad for dads in this situations. Obviously nobody wants the child to miss out and it's not ideal for dad to bring the girl into the changing rooms surrounded by naked men, but under no circumstances should the man be allowed into a female changing room.

    Even thinking back to when I was a teenager, I didn't even want to take my clothes off in front of my mother in the changing room. I always waited for the one cubicle to become free. And I would not be happy with a fully grown male present when my daughter would be getting dressed going through puberty or at a time when she was super aware of her own body. Absolutely not.

    Maybe places need to be more "dad friendly" and that's even down to changing facilities for babies.


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    #143
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    Ah jaysis I didn't even think this was a thing! I would imagine men that see a little girl in the changing room would be a little more discrete than maybe they normally would be. Adult men can't walk into female changing rooms, daughter or not tbh


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    #144
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Why are men not allowed in the womens but women are allowed in the mens? That's a bit sexist and unfair. Are we of a more delicate disposition or something? Either the opposite sex is allowed in or not, there shouldn't be double standards though.

    They're not though.

    I already mentioned earlier in the thread about a guy who successfully sued a hotel because an adult female cleaner saw him naked in the gents changing rooms.

    No adult member of the opposite sex should be in the others changing rooms.


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    #145
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    For me it's a lot of fuss for nothing. Kids see us naked, they see each other naked. We go to two swimming pools. One has male and female changing rooms and they come with me to female (I have a boy and a girl) and there is no issue. The other swimming pool has cubicles that we only use when I am also getting changed. When it is just the kids we go to communal changing rooms that are not gender specific and mostly used when kids have swimming classes. I certainly don't intend to make them body conscious before they become that themselves.


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    #146
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    meeeeh wrote: »
    For me it's a lot of fuss for nothing. Kids see us naked, they see each other naked. We go to two swimming pools. One has male and female changing rooms and they come with me to female (I have a boy and a girl) and there is no issue. The other swimming pool has cubicles that we only use when I am also getting changed. When it is just the kids we go to communal changing rooms that are not gender specific and mostly used when kids have swimming classes. I certainly don't intend to make them body conscious before they become that themselves.

    Is that in Ireland? I'm just asking because your post doesn't sound 19th century puritan. (blame my German upbringing)


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    #147
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    meeeeh wrote: »
    For me it's a lot of fuss for nothing. Kids see us naked, they see each other naked. We go to two swimming pools. One has male and female changing rooms and they come with me to female (I have a boy and a girl) and there is no issue. The other swimming pool has cubicles that we only use when I am also getting changed. When it is just the kids we go to communal changing rooms that are not gender specific and mostly used when kids have swimming classes. I certainly don't intend to make them body conscious before they become that themselves.

    It's nothing to do with body consciousness, or being puritanical. If there were no communal changing rooms or cubicles in the gender specific ones, would you be happy with a man being in the ladies changing room when you and your daughter are getting changed?


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    #148
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Is that in Ireland? I'm just asking because your post doesn't sound 19th century puritan. (blame my German upbringing)

    Yes. I am not Irish, their father is, our attitude about it is the same. I actually don't think I am particularly liberal, I am not that fond of communal saunas and similar, I just don't think there is any need to burden kids with that.


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    #149
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    It's nothing to do with body consciousness, or being puritanical. If there were no communal changing rooms or cubicles in the gender specific ones, would you be happy with a man being in the ladies changing room when you and your daughter are getting changed?

    As I said before you have a right to expect to be surrounded by adults of the same gender if you are in gender specific changing room. But I would have no issues with my daughter being charged in men's changing room or my son being charged in women's changing room. Neither would I expect other people present to act any differently than they usually do.


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    #150
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    I'm agreeing with you on that point, I go through it every weekend.

    The sticky point is the guy that thinks it's acceptable to go into the ladies dressing room as it's his daughter getting changed, not he.


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    #151
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Yes. I am not Irish, their father is, our attitude about it is the same. I actually don't think I am particularly liberal, I am not that fond of communal saunas and similar, I just don't think there is any need to burden kids with that.

    Would you have a problem with a man walking into a female only changing room? If not, do you at least understand why other women and girls might take issue with it?


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