Swimming pool changing rooms

meeeeh

eviltwin wrote: »

Would you have a problem with a man walking into a female only changing room? If not, do you at least understand why other women and girls might take issue with it?

And why would you come to that conclusion from my replies?

KERSPLAT!

meeeeh wrote: »

And why would you come to that conclusion from my replies?

What conclusion? There are two questions with no statements.

eviltwin

meeeeh wrote: »

And why would you come to that conclusion from my replies?

I'm not making any conclusions, I'm looking for clarification because I don't understand if your talking about adults or children

meeeeh

ThisRegard wrote: »

I'm agreeing with you on that point, I go through it every weekend.

The sticky point is the guy that thinks it's acceptable to go into the ladies dressing room as it's his daughter getting changed, not he.

I know I just don't get why this needs to be debated. Someone also mentioned they moved their daughter to another changing room after some boys complained why is she there if it was me they would be ignored and we would stay there.

evolving_doors

Men don't give a damn really, go to the men's, women would probably get uppity with a male in their presence.

Would men mind if a woman brought her young lad into the men's? Doubt it.

Although on a side note I'd bring daughter to girls jacks every time... Why? (apart from her insisting )
Cos it'd be cleaner...

I think this is more an issue for the adults than the kids. There's a bit of insinuating that the man is going to cop a pervey glance... I Suppose that's why women have to wear the veil in some countries,

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Uppity? Are you actually serious

KERSPLAT!

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Men don't give a damn really, go to the men's, women would probably get uppity with a male in their presence.

Would men mind if a woman brought her young lad into the men's? Doubt it.

Although on a side note I'd bring daughter to girls jacks every time... Why? (apart from her insisting )
Cos it'd be cleaner...

I think this is more an issue for the adults than the kids. There's a bit of insinuating that the man is going to cop a pervey glance... I Suppose that's why women have to wear the veil in some countries,

Jaysus.

ThisRegard

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I think this is more an issue for the adults than the kids. There's a bit of insinuating that the man is going to cop a pervey glance... I Suppose that's why women have to wear the veil in some countries,

This, frankly, is bollox. It's simply because a man in a ladies changing room is not a place he should be in. As I said already women and young girls are entitled to the expectation of privacy in a ladies changing room.

There have been threads started elsewhere on this forum recently by women uncomfortable getting changed in open ladies changing rooms, never mind having to worry about men waking in with a sense of entitlement to be there.

_Brian

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Men don't give a damn really, go to the men's, women would probably get uppity with a male in their presence.

Would men mind if a woman brought her young lad into the men's? Doubt it.

Although on a side note I'd bring daughter to girls jacks every time... Why? (apart from her insisting )
Cos it'd be cleaner...

I think this is more an issue for the adults than the kids. There's a bit of insinuating that the man is going to cop a pervey glance... I Suppose that's why women have to wear the veil in some countries,

Kids??
Maybe young children but take teens who are at a difficult enough stage in their lives without some random bloke strolling into the ladies changing room.

I'm really really concerned about men trying to defend walking into changing rooms where teen girls are changing and likely to be partly or completly undressed. I mean coaches and children's officers have to be Garda vetted to spend time with kids yet some feel it's ok for completly unknowns to walk in on young girls naked. What the hell is wrong with people.
I would definitely be pushing for Garda involvement if I came across this. This isn't a normal attitude at all and I wouldn't be accepting any excuses.

One eyed Jack

_Brian wrote: »

Kids??
Maybe young children but take teens who are at a difficult enough stage in their lives without some random bloke strolling into the ladies changing room.

I'm really really concerned about men trying to defend walking into changing rooms where teen girls are changing and likely to be partly or completly undressed. I mean coaches and children's officers have to be Garda vetted to spend time with kids yet some feel it's ok for completly unknowns to walk in on young girls naked. What the hell is wrong with people.
I would definitely be pushing for Garda involvement if I came across this. This isn't a normal attitude at all and I wouldn't be accepting any excuses.

I'd somewhat agree with this in that if someone couldn't understand why people might be uncomfortable with an adult of the opposite sex being among them while they're undressed, that person has no consideration for anyone else but themselves.

I wouldn't go calling the Gardaí on them though, I'd simply let the other adults tell them GTFO!!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I mean would you even be comfortable marching into the opposite sexes changing rooms? I personally wouldn't. I'd be absolutely scarlet for myself surrounded by mickeys and naked teenagers. Not my cup of tea at all.

meeeeh

I did wander into changing room full of naked footballers once by mistake. Luckily nobody called police on me. Actually nobody even acknowledged me. Calling gards is a bit extreme if someone is not acting like a pervert.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Well I'm not one to beat around the bush but for a grown man to saunter into a female dressing room at a time where it's expected to have naked females in it, without getting ahead of myself, would start ringing some pervy alarm bells for me. Daughter or no daughter in tow.

One eyed Jack

meeeeh wrote: »

I did wander into changing room full of naked footballers once by mistake. Luckily nobody called police on me. Actually nobody even acknowledged me. Calling gards is a bit extreme if someone is not acting like a pervert.

Mmmhmmm, by mistake, eh?

Seriously though, I agree, calling the police would be extreme and unnecessary. But whether they're acting like a pervert or not, a man going into a women's changing room is generally understood to make them feel intimidated and uncomfortable. It's unnecessary IMO when there are gender-specific facilities available.

Neyite

meeeeh wrote: »

I did wander into changing room full of naked footballers once by mistake. Luckily nobody called police on me. Actually nobody even acknowledged me. Calling gards is a bit extreme if someone is not acting like a pervert.

A bit different wandering in through the wrong door as opposed to purposely going in.

I don't think I'd call the Gardai, but plenty would. He would, at the very least, get chucked out by management. Possibly barred. Very upsetting to have a scene like that in front of a young child.

More so if the Gardai were called by someone. And I imagine that if the Gardai were called to a situation involving an adult male and going into a changing room containing underage girls, then they'd likely be obliged to flag it with social services as he has a daughter himself. That would be a hell of a lot more trauma to his daughter than a glimpse of a wanger in the men's changing rooms would be.

I understand its different standards on the continent. I've used sauna's and so on in Germany so I'm ok with that. Here in Ireland though, norms and expectations are a little different. And the expectation in Ireland is that men do not routinely go into a female changing room. So anything outside of the norm would possibly be viewed with suspicion, rightly or wrongly.

_Brian

meeeeh wrote: »

I did wander into changing room full of naked footballers once by mistake. Luckily nobody called police on me. Actually nobody even acknowledged me. Calling gards is a bit extreme if someone is not acting like a pervert.

So walking into an area specifically reserved for young girls to change in isn't acting like a pervert, tell me so, how exactly do perverts act ? Can you tell by looking at someone ??
We're heavily involved in swimming and visit maybe 3-4 pools weekly and I can tell you this isn't normal nor acceptable behaviour. Frankly I'm disturbed that even one person is defending it never mind a number of people thinking it's somehow acceptable.

Judge Trudy

meeeeh wrote: »

For me it's a lot of fuss for nothing. Kids see us naked, they see each other naked. We go to two swimming pools. One has male and female changing rooms and they come with me to female (I have a boy and a girl) and there is no issue. The other swimming pool has cubicles that we only use when I am also getting changed. When it is just the kids we go to communal changing rooms that are not gender specific and mostly used when kids have swimming classes. I certainly don't intend to make them body conscious before they become that themselves.

Agreed! Such Baloney over nothing. I bring my daughter swimming every week and some people are so rude that they never pay for lockers and leave their belongings in the changing spaces leaving no space for other people. One week, I literally couldn't find anywhere to change her so I brought her into the men's changing room which was quiet apart from a few fathers changing their own children. It was nothing she didn't see before, no big swinging Mickey really. Her father often brings her into the men's toilet to wash her hands. We all have to co exist on this planet and not everyone is trying to moleste your child. Be vigilant but I don't want to be over paranoid about every person either.

One eyed Jack

_Brian wrote: »

So walking into an area specifically reserved for young girls to change in isn't acting like a pervert, tell me so, how exactly do perverts act ? Can you tell by looking at someone ??
We're heavily involved in swimming and visit maybe 3-4 pools weekly and I can tell you this isn't normal nor acceptable behaviour. Frankly I'm disturbed that even one person is defending it never mind a number of people thinking it's somehow acceptable.

In fairness, it's fairly obvious when someone is acting like a pervert, and even more obvious the more they try to hide the fact.

Granted it's neither normal nor acceptable behaviour, but I wouldn't immediately assume someone was going in with the sole purpose of ogling anyone until they actually were ogling anyone. By that standard I would have assumed my lifeguard training coach was the stereotypical pervert who was only coaching because she wanted to cop a gawk at me in my budgie smugglers. She really couldn't have been less interested.

The fact that she trusted me enough to partner me up with her daughter tells me she thought I wasn't a pervert either...

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

So why are white swimsuits banned out of most pools/leisure clubs

Neyite

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In fairness, it's fairly obvious when someone is acting like a pervert, and even more obvious the more they try to hide the fact..

In fairness, its not.

This country has a bit of a bad habit of assuming that sex offenders of any shade should be obvious to all. They aren't. They are everyday ordinary people who usually would have been regarded as extremely trustworthy in their communities and nobody believes that they could be capable of the deeds they are accused of. Until they get convicted of their crimes.

BoatMad

In fairness, it's fairly obvious when someone is acting like a pervert, and even more obvious the more they try to hide the fact.

I see, they have a sign or something or a dirty mac maybe

intheclouds

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In fairness, it's fairly obvious when someone is acting like a pervert, and even more obvious the more they try to hide the fact.

No, it really isn't.

And lots of pervs would deliberately use a plausible excuse like "I'm protecting my daughter from seeing naked men" just to get in to the ladies changing room.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

A bit off topic but this wasn't that long ago.
He was my drama teacher, I think the dogs on the street knew he was a pervert. Have a read of that, with his interest in swimming
http://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/my-close-encounters-with-a-predatory-paedophile-34515074.html

ThisRegard

Neyite wrote: »

I understand its different standards on the continent. I've used sauna's and so on in Germany so I'm ok with that. Here in Ireland though, norms and expectations are a little different. And the expectation in Ireland is that men do not routinely go into a female changing room. So anything outside of the norm would possibly be viewed with suspicion, rightly or wrongly.

Saunas in Germany are not comparible to gender specific changing rooms in Ireland, or any other country. You're comparing apples and oranges.

You'll probably find men aren't welcome with open arms into ladies changing rooms in Germany either.

One eyed Jack

Neyite wrote: »

In fairness, its not.

This country has a bit of a bad habit of assuming that sex offenders of any shade should be obvious to all. They aren't. They are everyday ordinary people who usually would have been regarded as extremely trustworthy in their communities and nobody believes that they could be capable of the deeds they are accused of. Until they get convicted of their crimes.

Yeah I agree with that (I made that very same point recently in a thread on AH), but the context we're actually talking about here in this thread, is not someone in a position of trust, it's some randomer walking into an opposite sex dressing room. Someone capable of committing abuse or assault is a whole different proportion and context altogether (not neglecting the fact that someone capable of committing abuse or assault could just as easily be of the same sex as their victim).

Neyite

ThisRegard wrote: »

Saunas in Germany are not comparible to gender specific changing rooms in Ireland, or any other country. You're comparing apples and oranges.

I was responding to Meeeh who mentioned the communal changing rooms /saunas and pools set up in Germany, where attitudes are a bit different and nudity is no big deal. I wasn't comparing them.

One eyed Jack

BoatMad wrote: »

I see, they have a sign or something or a dirty mac maybe

intheclouds wrote: »

No, it really isn't.

And lots of pervs would deliberately use a plausible excuse like "I'm protecting my daughter from seeing naked men" just to get in to the ladies changing room.

I personally would draw a distinction between someone who's just a pervert, and someone capable of committing assault or abuse tbh.

intheclouds

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I personally would draw a distinction between someone who's just a pervert, and someone capable of committing assault or abuse tbh.

I wouldn't be happy to have either in the changing room with me while I had my bits out.

_Brian

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yeah I agree with that (I made that very same point recently in a thread on AH), but the context we're actually talking about here in this thread, is not someone in a position of trust, it's some randomer walking into an opposite sex dressing room. Someone capable of committing abuse or assault is a whole different proportion and context altogether (not neglecting the fact that someone capable of committing abuse or assault could just as easily be of the same sex as their victim).

Are you saying that a man walking into a ladies changing room couldn't be a pervert?

BoatMad

_Brian wrote: »

Are you saying that a man walking into a ladies changing room couldn't be a pervert?

no but the debate is rapidly heading into reductio ad absurdum territory

The issue of perversion is not relevant to this thread