Swimming pool changing rooms

One eyed Jack

_Brian wrote: »

Are you saying that a man walking into a ladies changing room couldn't be a pervert?

No I'm not. I'm saying that I wouldn't immediately assume they are a pervert, and as I said to that male poster earlier who thought he was being a caring dad by accompanying his daughter into the women's dressing room - I'd be more likely to assume he's one of these "new dads" - a misguided attempt at virtue signalling how right-on he is in his parenting efforts.

That's also why I said he was more than welcome to use the women's dressing rooms, because I wouldn't have any time for anyone who thinks I would want to be huffing and puffing and rubbing my crotch with a towel at their daughters eye level :rolleyes:

meeeeh

Neyite wrote: »

I was responding to Meeeh who mentioned the communal changing rooms /saunas and pools set up in Germany, where attitudes are a bit different and nudity is no big deal. I wasn't comparing them.

I did no such thing. In fact I twice mentioned that grown up of opposite sex should not be in the change rooms of another gender. All this was ignored and I got back this is Ireland and we do things differently here.

The communal changing room I was talking about is in Irish swimming pool and used by parents of both genders changing their kids. There are a lot of assumptions made about things I never said despite explaining what I meant. I don't even know where the assumption is that I was talking about Germany. So please enlighten me what exactly was saying or otherwise I would appreciate if opinions that I never expressed are not attributed to me.

The only thing I said is that I wouldn't straight away call guards

BoatMad

in amidst the flotsam here, I think its worth repeating that in the absence of prior consensus and approval, a man has no place in a female communal disrobing area , kids in tow or not . There is a valid expectation of privacy

pwurple

Neyite wrote: »

So to sum things up - You think dads should bring daughters into the women's changing room. 10 years from now when your daughter is changing alone in there, will you be just as understanding to the caring dad who does brings his 4 year old in to get her changed beside your naked teen daughter - I mean, he's clothed so its ok, right?

Neyite, what on earth?

My husband brings our daughter swimming (well, we take turns). He brings her into the girls changing room. No adults are getting changed. Just the children going to the class.

Are you insinuating above that he is there to ogle other children? Just because he is a MAN he is a perverted pedo and won't be able to control himself and wants to look at nude children? I mean seriously. All he's trying to do is wrestle his own child into their clothes and get her home, while not soaking every stitch of clothes. Every adult in that room is clothed, and none of the kids give a flying toss about nudity.

Are all fathers predators now and I missed the memo?

ThisRegard

You're ignoring the expectation of privacy point. All well and good if everyone swimming are very young kids, but unfair if there's any older girls.

BoatMad

pwurple wrote: »

Neyite, what on earth?

My husband brings our daughter swimming (well, we take turns). He brings her into the girls changing room. No adults are getting changed. Just the children going to the class.

Are you insinuating above that he is there to ogle other children? Just because he is a MAN he is a perverted pedo and won't be able to control himself and wants to look at nude children? I mean seriously. All he's trying to do is wrestle his own child into their clothes and get her home, while not soaking every stitch of clothes. Every adult in that room is clothed, and none of the kids give a flying toss about nudity.

Are all fathers predators now and I missed the memo?

you are mixing up situations , Neyite was referring to a situation where teenager females are undressing, you are talking about small kids

eviltwin

pwurple wrote: »

Neyite, what on earth?

My husband brings our daughter swimming (well, we take turns). He brings her into the girls changing room. No adults are getting changed. Just the children going to the class.

Are you insinuating above that he is there to ogle other children? Just because he is a MAN he is a perverted pedo and won't be able to control himself and wants to look at nude children? I mean seriously. All he's trying to do is wrestle his own child into their clothes and get her home, while not soaking every stitch of clothes. Every adult in that room is clothed, and none of the kids give a flying toss about nudity.

Are all fathers predators now and I missed the memo?

I think most people here are referring to open swims where there could be women and other young girls semi naked in the room. Not times when it's only children going to a class.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

To be fair to Neyite that's not what I personally took from her post.
Paedo or not, having a man march in to a female changing room when women and children of varying ages and shapes are undressing or naked is inappropriate and the presence of a man whether he has a daughter or not, has no right to be there making other women uncomfortable or vulnerable.

I personally would not like a man to walk into a private area where my teenage daughter would be naked or semi naked. It doesn't matter if he's ogling her or not. She has the right to feel safe and not have strange men see her naked body.

One eyed Jack

BoatMad wrote: »

you are mixing up situations , Neyite was referring to a situation where teenager females are undressing, you are talking about small kids

Even still though, to automatically assume a parent or guardian in that situation is a pervert on that basis, is just as poor form as the parent whose actions you object to. More and more parents are breaking what they see as gender stereotypes all the time, and this whole thing of an opposite sex parent bringing their child into the child's gender appropriate dressing room is all part of it. Their intent is more to do with their idea of gender equality and social justice, than anything related to wanting to get a glimpse of naked teenage girls and women or teenage boys and men or whatever else.

BoatMad

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Even still though, to automatically assume a parent or guardian in that situation is a pervert on that basis, is just as poor as the parent whose actions you object to. More and more parents are breaking what they see as gender stereotypes all the time, and this whole thing of an opposite sex parent bringing their child into the child's gender appropriate dressing room is all part of it. Their intent is more to do with their idea of gender equality and social justice, than anything related to wanting to get a glimpse of naked teenage girls women or teenage boys and men or whatever else.

It doesnt matter whether you are breaking gender stereotypes or whatever

In ireland as in many countries , unless its is established beforehand , or arrived at by consensus and permission, females ( and males) in disrobing areas have an expectation of privacy

small kids have no expectation of privacy and can be happily disrobed in either mens or women areas by an adult of appropriate gender to the general adults disrobing

end of story

pwurple

BoatMad wrote: »

you are mixing up situations , Neyite was referring to a situation where teenager females are undressing, you are talking about small kids

So is it ok if they are all small children? Genuine question, because what i am reading about, it does not sound like it.

And I'd love to know why it only applies to men. Sounds like fairly blatent sexism here too.

I actually did encounter this issue before is why I query it. We do a lot of swimming... Have gone to lots of swim lessons, and in one of them, this rule about seperate changing rooms applying to the adults was in supposed to be in force. However, they had applied it in a bizaar way.

Two changing rooms, female room was huge, male was tiny. Large stick man on the female door with a red x through it. Nothing on the other door.

So naturally, the boys with daddies, boys with mammies and girls with daddies all trouped into the tiny changing room. Only girls with mammies in the huge room. Male room was jammers. People stepping on each other, naked arms and legs flying, slipping, people trying to get changed in the middle of the floor, balancing on one leg, kids falling over. Mahem.

La di da, one mammy and one girl in the other room with oceans of space. We're talking enough space for 30 people. So my daughter, being a practical child, and having been in the other room the week before, tells her daddy this is silly, and there is much more room in the other one. heads off down the corridor in to the bigger room, after her shower. Starkers of course. My Husband gathers stuff and follows her in a bit of a rush. Dresses her quickly and is on her way out when the sole mammy in there roars at him (having not even seen him across the room to this point).

So I ask the pool person for a bit of clarification about this rule the following week... shouldn't some of the mammies be in the female room maybe (and they shrug) and this same woman approaches me and goes off on a rant about her 6 year old having breasts and how 90% of child abusers are men. The thought of shoving her in the pool crossed my mind if I'm honest, but I put it down to her being mentally unsound and let her rant away while feeling slightly sorry for her sex-obsessed self. Swiftly changed swim lessons.

Honest to goodness did not think this All Men Are Perverts thing was the common perception!

BoatMad

Honest to goodness did not think this All Men Are Perverts thing was the common perception!

unfortunately the stats are not in our favour , and your story is an example of the salem witch hunts that are now prevalent around the fear of men and kids etc

however that is not the issue. The issue is in the normal course of the operation of communal disrobing areas segregated by gender, there is an expectation of privacy of gender

_Brian

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Even still though, to automatically assume a parent or guardian in that situation is a pervert on that basis, is just as poor form as the parent whose actions you object to. More and more parents are breaking what they see as gender stereotypes all the time, and this whole thing of an opposite sex parent bringing their child into the child's gender appropriate dressing room is all part of it. Their intent is more to do with their idea of gender equality and social justice, than anything related to wanting to get a glimpse of naked teenage girls and women or teenage boys and men or whatever else.

Nope, not buying the whole challenging gender blah blah blah. They have no right going into the opposite sex changing rooms if teenagers might be changing in them who have every right to their own privacy in a single sex changing room. That's pushing their own feelings around gender onto others without thought or consent and it's not on. Single sex changing rooms should be respected as such with the exception of closed sessions where it's accepted only very young kids are present.
In open pool sessions it's an invasion of privacy and extremely risky.

ThisRegard

pwurple wrote: »

Honest to goodness did not think this All Men Are Perverts thing was the common perception!

It's not.

Now forward 8 or 9 years, would you or your daughter be comfortable with a man walking in and seeing her naked?

This has nothing to do with men being perverts or breaking gender stereotypes nonsense. It's a simple matter of respect and appropriateness.

pwurple

LexieOnRale wrote: »

To be fair to Neyite that's not what I personally took from her post.
Paedo or not

Love this bit, cos you know, about half of them are?

...having a man march in to a female changing room when women and children of varying ages and shapes are undressing or naked is inappropriate and the presence of a man whether he has a daughter or not, has no right to be there making other women uncomfortable or vulnerable.

I personally would not like a man to walk into a private area where my teenage daughter would be naked or semi naked. It doesn't matter if he's ogling her or not. She has the right to feel safe and not have strange men see her naked body.

Can I ask whether you think this only applies to men?

Is it ok the other way around if teenage boys are changing and a mother comes in with a small boy to help him with his clothes?

monkeysnapper

Jeeez , my local swimming pool has a unisex changing room with loads of cubicals of different sizes . thank god for that . I'm exhausted after reading the alternative!!!

BoatMad

Is it ok the other way around if teenage boys are changing and a mother comes in with a small boy to help him with his clothes?

that is equally an invasion of the teens privacy

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Childless women ---> female changing rooms
Mammies ----> female changing room
Mammy with daughter ----> female changing room
Mammy with young son ---> female changing room
Pre adolescent girl ----> female changing room
Girl going through puberty ---> female changing room

Man----> male changing room
Father with child ---> male changing room

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

pwurple wrote: »

Love this bit, cos you know, about half of them are?



Can I ask whether you think this only applies to men?

Is it ok the other way around if teenage boys are changing and a mother comes in with a small boy to help him with his clothes?

Absolutely not. She should take him with her into the female changing room

pwurple

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's not.

Now forward 8 or 9 years, would you or your daughter be comfortable with a man walking in and seeing her naked?

This has nothing to do with men being perverts or breaking gender stereotypes nonsense. It's a simple matter of respect and appropriateness.

Well, I have been a teenage girl, and have changed my clothes on beaches and in communal areas and all sorts of places and countries. Never remember feeling uncomfortable. By some age, maybe 9ish?, i was well able to wrap a towel around myself, pull my underwear up and generally not be prancing about naked while changing.

I don't know what way you guys are getting dressed. I might have to do a wee diagram.

BoatMad

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Childless women ---> female changing rooms
Mammies ----> female changing room
Mammy with daughter ----> female changing room
Mammy with young son ---> female changing room
Pre adolescent girl ----> female changing room
Girl going through puberty ---> female changing room

Man----> male changing room
Father with child ---> male changing room

thank you , a cut through the nonsense that has been peddled in this thread

Westernyelp

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Childless women ---> female changing rooms
Mammies ----> female changing room
Mammy with daughter ----> female changing room
Mammy with young son ---> female changing room
Pre adolescent girl ----> female changing room
Girl going through puberty ---> female changing room

Man----> male changing room
Father with child ---> male changing room

simple enough really

BoatMad

I don't know what way you guys are getting dressed. I might have to do a wee diagram.

the way a females get dressed and undressed is a mechanism wholly unfathomable to the male mind

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

pwurple wrote: »

Well, I have been a teenage girl, and have changed my clothes on beaches and in communal areas and all sorts of places and countries. Never remember feeling uncomfortable. By some age, maybe 9ish?, i was well able to wrap a towel around myself, pull my underwear up and generally not be prancing about naked while changing.

I don't know what way you guys are getting dressed. I might have to do a wee diagram.

Good for you. I've also been a teenage girl and I wouldn't get changed in front of anyone in my teens. Even after pe I was always in trouble for being late to pe/class after pe because I was too self conscious to change in front of all my female classmates. Good for you having no body hang ups or insecurities but plenty of teenagers and women do.

meeeeh

pwurple wrote: »

So I ask the pool person for a bit of clarification about this rule the following week... shouldn't some of the mammies be in the female room maybe (and they shrug) and this same woman approaches me and goes off on a rant about her 6 year old having breasts and how 90% of child abusers are men. The thought of shoving her in the pool crossed my mind if I'm honest, but I put it down to her being mentally unsound and let her rant away while feeling slightly sorry for her sex-obsessed self. Swiftly changed swim lessons.

Honest to goodness did not think this All Men Are Perverts thing was the common perception!

Yeah that is insane. Point I was trying to make in one of my posts is that young children shouldn't have hang ups about their bodies. If they do it's usually parents projecting their own paranoia on them. It really shouldn't matter in what gender changing room kids are changed.

ThisRegard

pwurple wrote: »

Well, I have been a teenage girl, and have changed my clothes on beaches and in communal areas and all sorts of places and countries. Never remember feeling uncomfortable. By some age, maybe 9ish?, i was well able to wrap a towel around myself, pull my underwear up and generally not be prancing about naked while changing.

I don't know what way you guys are getting dressed. I might have to do a wee diagram.

You're projecting how you feel onto how you expect every other person in that changing room should feel. You're also talking about communal areas where there's no such expectation to privacy. Just because you're OK with it doesn't mean everyone else, either with themselves, or their kids, being seen by a member of the opposite sex.

And you're talking to a guy who still gets changed in fields on a weekly basis in front of a bunch of other people of both sexes, so I know well how to get dressed without a diagram.

It's ridiculous people are still arguing that men should be allowed into a female dressing room outside of closed sessions.

eviltwin

pwurple wrote: »

Well, I have been a teenage girl, and have changed my clothes on beaches and in communal areas and all sorts of places and countries. Never remember feeling uncomfortable. By some age, maybe 9ish?, i was well able to wrap a towel around myself, pull my underwear up and generally not be prancing about naked while changing.

I don't know what way you guys are getting dressed. I might have to do a wee diagram.

There is a huge difference between changing in an area you can reasonably expect an adult of the opposite sex to be , a beach for instance, you can anticipate that and prepare accordingly. It's completely reasonable to expect that a female changing room will be female only. A lot of women and girls will let their guard down in a situation like that and would be horrified to see a male walk in. You might be down with that but have a bit of respect for those who would feel intimidated by it.

pwurple

intheclouds wrote: »

No, it really isn't.

And lots of pervs would deliberately use a plausible excuse like "I'm protecting my daughter from seeing naked men" just to get in to the ladies changing room.

Look at this. :rolleyes:

Obviously my husband has gone to some serious effort in his perverseness. I mean, he had to meet me, go out for about a decade, live together, get married, do some fertility stuff, evenutally manage to have a child. Thank his lucky stars it was a girl rather than a useless boy, persuade us all that she liked swimming, just so he could arrange a trip to a swimming pool to see someone changing their clothes. That is some serious planning. What a champ.

One eyed Jack

BoatMad wrote: »

It doesnt matter whether you are breaking gender stereotypes or whatever

In ireland as in many countries , unless its is established beforehand , or arrived at by consensus and permission, females ( and males) in disrobing areas have an expectation of privacy

small kids have no expectation of privacy and can be happily disrobed in either mens or women areas by an adult of appropriate gender to the general adults disrobing

end of story

BoatMad wrote: »

unfortunately the stats are not in our favour , and your story is an example of the salem witch hunts that are now prevalent around the fear of men and kids etc

however that is not the issue. The issue is in the normal course of the operation of communal disrobing areas segregated by gender, there is an expectation of privacy of gender

Here, I'm not saying for one minute I actually support the idea, or that I agree with it. Quite frankly I think it's a load of whatever you're having yourself, but, I'm just pointing out that it's out there, and there are parents who think that way, and they're absolutely not perverts or anything else, and I think it's misguided to automatically assume a person is a pervert in that situation where they're using the dressing room that is considered inappropriate for their gender.

That's jumping to conclusions and buying into stereotypes, and that's exactly how you'll miss the pervert or the abuser under your own nose, so to speak.

ThisRegard

meeeeh wrote: »

Yeah that is insane. Point I was trying to make in one of my posts is that young children shouldn't have hang ups about their bodies. If they do it's usually parents projecting their own paranoia on them. It really shouldn't matter in what gender changing room kids are changed.

Again, the point that's raging is not about kids. Simple fact of life is that some people, all at some stage of their life, don't want to be seen naked by someone of their own sex, never mind the opposite, and I'm dumbfounded that peole think this decision should be removed from them.