Have Irish women became obsessed with looks/beauty etc

meeeeh · 27-04-2016 2:12pm

I think to someone outside of Ireland (UK, USA) the weddings can be a bit of a shock. Yes you have different people doing different things but in general weddings in Ireland are more glamorous occasion (my mum was at one and was well impressed). Debs would be very similar to that where I come from but weddings would be less of an affair. Forget about wearing the same dress to three different weddings, you could drag a pair of work trousers and a blouse out of wardrobe and you wouldn't be out of place.

(That doesn't mean some don't dress up). Anyway I think when people dress up they can either look stunning and some can get a bit overstyled. It's just more noticeable in Ireland because people get dressed up more often.

bigpink · 27-04-2016 2:48pm

Great that people doing more excerise and more fitness aware but i think alot of it is fad or for vainty reasons
Gym like a catwalk gym selfies etc

ChampagnePop · 27-04-2016 3:31pm

bigpink wrote: »

Great that people doing more excerise and more fitness aware but i think alot of it is fad or for vainty reasons
Gym like a catwalk gym selfies etc

Gyms should strictly ban selfies

bigpink · 27-04-2016 3:33pm

Saw an irish model celeb type on facebook saying she had weight loss but that going to the gym and eating got her gains.Rather than just tell the story in post it was a link for a fitness talk in a gym

One eyed Jack · 27-04-2016 4:43pm

sullivlo wrote: »

On the bolded bit - I 100% disagree. Yes, women do want to look good for themselves, however more increasingly women are taking into account how men like them to look in how they choose to dress / do make up.

I'd have to wonder where you get the impression that the number of women in Ireland who take into account how men want them to look, is increasing?

If anything, I would suggest the number has actually been steadily decreasing since women in Irish society have become more and more independent and there's less pressure on them to be married off in their 20's, stay at home and produce a family, and still look good for her husband when he comes home expecting his dinner on the table.

How many threads are started / comments are made / "articles" published on her.ie about "what should I wear to impress a man" or "what type of underwear men prefer on women" or "should I wake up before my boyfriend to put make up on so he doesn't see me without makeup?". This is not a woman wanting to look good for herself, this is a woman wanting to fit in to a society where there is huge pressure to look good.

Thousands, probably millions of articles and threads. You're right, that's not women wanting to look good for themselves, that's women being told by women, how to be women. The women who write the articles are selling an aspirational lifestyle. There's huge pressure coming from them alright, but you'll only buy into it if you feel you're "not good enough" already. It's a self-perpetuating pressure - they wouldn't write articles if there wasn't an audience for them, because the magazines and the websites just wouldn't be very popular. It's like someone complaining about something... and doing it anyway. I wouldn't assume that the likes of her.ie and RSVP, etc appeals to that many Irish women generally.

In terms of my use of the word society - semantics. I think the point I was making is fairly clear. Peer pressure is just a smaller "society". Social circle. Whatever you want to call it. Either way the key word here is pressure.

I genuinely wasn't trying to be pedantic. I mean, if you say society, I'm going to assume you're talking about Irish society as per the thread title and we're not doing another round the world trip effort where posters are talking about countries with populations of 16 million + (16 million being the population of London alone, never mind the rest of the UK, France, Eastern Europe, etc).

There's a hell of a difference between society, and a woman's social circle - her social circle is an awful, awful lot smaller. That's why I made the distinction between social pressure, and peer pressure, because peer pressure has an awful lot more influence on a person than wider society at large. I mean, I could take a walk round town and I can encounter hundreds of different looks and styles among women of all ages, shapes and sizes, so this notion that there's this overwhelming social pressure on women that they feel they have to look good for men? I'm afraid I'm just not seeing it.

I've certainly observed the peer pressure among different groups of women that you're talking about alright, but that would be introducing my own bias given that I work mostly with women from disadvantaged backgrounds, sex workers, college students and children. I'd never suggest the various groups were representative of women in Irish society as a whole though. Hence why I think the OP might be given to basing their assumptions on the various phenomena observed on social media, which would only be reinforcing their view that Irish women have become more obsessed with their looks/beauty, etc.

Olishi4 · 27-04-2016 7:11pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm fairly sure women want to make themselves look good for themselves, before they give a damn what men might think of how they look.

I would have to agree. I would never wear or dress in something that I personally didn't like or think suited myself. A few times my husband has pointed out some awful looking clothing item like a top in a shop and I'd be thinking "is he joking?". :pac

My grandmother always put on red lipstick and face powder before leaving the house. She was quite old looking even for her age at the time and not what you think of, when you think of a woman with red lipstick but it was her trademark look and it was lovely on her. She certainly wasn't doing it to impress men, just how she liked to present herself.

Milly33 wrote: »

No there is nothing wrong with really but as such tis just covering up and everyone ends up looking the same as everyone else.. makes the world a very boring place

Speaking of my granny, when I look at old pictures of her and her peers, they all look the same to me. The same hairstyles, similar clothing and makeup. Whatever the style was at the time, that's how her group liked to look.

I don't know if obsession with looks has increased or just that certain aspects of it have become more obvious as with everything on the internet. On social media, most people will want to present their own interpretation of their best self. It might not be your personal taste but their own. People are constantly taking photos so what once was a "girls night out" is now a girl's night out with lots of moments of the night recorded in pictures and then shared with other friends, family, work collegues, ex love interests, new love interests etc nearly everyone you know. What was once an exclusive night out is not so much that anymore for alot of people. I can see how that would put pressure on some people to always look good or always have their "face" on.

Fake tan, different products, things like botox, lip injections and cosmetic surgery are all available for someone on a mission to perfection and it might seem like a new excessive to beauty but then women used to use poison Bella Donna to dilate their eyes, pinch their cheeks, bite their lips until they bled or wear their corsets so tight that they often fainted or even broke their ribs. At some stage I think it was fashionable to shave eyebrows because a larger forehead was considered beautiful at the time.

It's hard to know if there is an increased obsession or it's just more recognizable because of how the beauty industry plays into it and also because we now see a lot more of people's life that we wouldn't have seen before through the likes of social media. For example if someone seems to be constantly posting full makeup selfies and always "likes" brands of makeup, you might conclude that they are obsessed with their looks. They might very well be obsessed but you are only seeing a bit of that person that they are willing to show.

Dial Hard · 27-04-2016 10:06pm

sullivlo wrote: »

On the bolded bit - I 100% disagree. Yes, women do want to look good for themselves, however more increasingly women are taking into account how men like them to look in how they choose to dress / do make up. How many threads are started / comments are made / "articles" published on her.ie about "what should I wear to impress a man" or "what type of underwear men prefer on women" or "should I wake up before my boyfriend to put make up on so he doesn't see me without makeup?".

And I 100% disagree with this, tbh. I know a lot of women who I'd consider "high maintenance" in terms of their appearance and I can't think of a single one of them who does it because she's trying to impress a man/men in general. In my experience, women dress far more for themselves and other women than they do men. And I don't read women's magazines/websites so I accept that I may be out of the loop but I have literally never once in my life seen an article asking "should I wake up before my boyfriend to put make up on so he doesn't see me without makeup?" If you have an example, I'd be genuinely interested to read it. Genuinely. I'm not being a "Link???" arsehole here.

Spirogyra · 28-04-2016 5:03am

I think when women are young and have naturally good skin,it's a shame that isn't valued more, because its beautiful. Its a shame that people feel it should be hidden,that its not good enough. People do wear more make up now than when i was growing up....

sullivlo · 28-04-2016 7:59am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'd have to wonder where you get the impression that the number of women in Ireland who take into account how men want them to look, is increasing?

If anything, I would suggest the number has actually been steadily decreasing since women in Irish society have become more and more independent and there's less pressure on them to be married off in their 20's, stay at home and produce a family, and still look good for her husband when he comes home expecting his dinner on the table.

Thousands, probably millions of articles and threads. You're right, that's not women wanting to look good for themselves, that's women being told by women, how to be women. The women who write the articles are selling an aspirational lifestyle. There's huge pressure coming from them alright, but you'll only buy into it if you feel you're "not good enough" already. It's a self-perpetuating pressure - they wouldn't write articles if there wasn't an audience for them, because the magazines and the websites just wouldn't be very popular. It's like someone complaining about something... and doing it anyway. I wouldn't assume that the likes of her.ie and RSVP, etc appeals to that many Irish women generally.

I genuinely wasn't trying to be pedantic. I mean, if you say society, I'm going to assume you're talking about Irish society as per the thread title and we're not doing another round the world trip effort where posters are talking about countries with populations of 16 million + (16 million being the population of London alone, never mind the rest of the UK, France, Eastern Europe, etc).

There's a hell of a difference between society, and a woman's social circle - her social circle is an awful, awful lot smaller. That's why I made the distinction between social pressure, and peer pressure, because peer pressure has an awful lot more influence on a person than wider society at large. I mean, I could take a walk round town and I can encounter hundreds of different looks and styles among women of all ages, shapes and sizes, so this notion that there's this overwhelming social pressure on women that they feel they have to look good for men? I'm afraid I'm just not seeing it.

I've certainly observed the peer pressure among different groups of women that you're talking about alright, but that would be introducing my own bias given that I work mostly with women from disadvantaged backgrounds, sex workers, college students and children. I'd never suggest the various groups were representative of women in Irish society as a whole though. Hence why I think the OP might be given to basing their assumptions on the various phenomena observed on social media, which would only be reinforcing their view that Irish women have become more obsessed with their looks/beauty, etc.

Those websites wouldn't exist if there wasn't an appeal to enough people. In the general sense of the population of women, perhaps there isn't a huge interest (if you consider the population from birth to death), however in the age group of 18-40, I'd hazard a guess that a high % of women pay some level of attention to what is written on those sites - well based on likes/shares/retweets amongst my friends. People notice these things. They mightn't take them on board, but they do still notice.

Perhaps I can agree with you in terms of society/peer pressure. When I say "society" I mean in the sense of the people that women interact with in their day to day life. I can only speak from personal experience, and I do think that as a 29 year old woman that there is increasing pressure from "society" (not necessarily my peers but the industry) to look good - make up, diets, flattering clothes, hair removal (OMG the PRESSURE of hair removal!) etc etc etc. This doesn't impact me - how I look only matters to ME, I don't actually care what anyone else thinks of how I dress (if I did, I wouldn't cycle in lycra

)

However if you have had different experiences to me, then that's perfectly okay too. I'm going to hazard a guess that you're not a 29 year old female so I reckon we won't see eye to eye on many of these issues. And remember, if you're looking into a situation, you're only seeing it from the outside.

Olishi4 wrote: »

I would have to agree. I would never wear or dress in something that I personally didn't like or think suited myself. A few times my husband has pointed out some awful looking clothing item like a top in a shop and I'd be thinking "is he joking?". :pac

My grandmother always put on red lipstick and face powder before leaving the house. She was quite old looking even for her age at the time and not what you think of, when you think of a woman with red lipstick but it was her trademark look and it was lovely on her. She certainly wasn't doing it to impress men, just how she liked to present herself.

Speaking of my granny, when I look at old pictures of her and her peers, they all look the same to me. The same hairstyles, similar clothing and makeup. Whatever the style was at the time, that's how her group liked to look.

I don't know if obsession with looks has increased or just that certain aspects of it have become more obvious as with everything on the internet. On social media, most people will want to present their own interpretation of their best self. It might not be your personal taste but their own. People are constantly taking photos so what once was a "girls night out" is now a girl's night out with lots of moments of the night recorded in pictures and then shared with other friends, family, work collegues, ex love interests, new love interests etc nearly everyone you know. What was once an exclusive night out is not so much that anymore for alot of people. I can see how that would put pressure on some people to always look good or always have their "face" on.

Fake tan, different products, things like botox, lip injections and cosmetic surgery are all available for someone on a mission to perfection and it might seem like a new excessive to beauty but then women used to use poison Bella Donna to dilate their eyes, pinch their cheeks, bite their lips until they bled or wear their corsets so tight that they often fainted or even broke their ribs. At some stage I think it was fashionable to shave eyebrows because a larger forehead was considered beautiful at the time.

It's hard to know if there is an increased obsession or it's just more recognizable because of how the beauty industry plays into it and also because we now see a lot more of people's life that we wouldn't have seen before through the likes of social media. For example if someone seems to be constantly posting full makeup selfies and always "likes" brands of makeup, you might conclude that they are obsessed with their looks. They might very well be obsessed but you are only seeing a bit of that person that they are willing to show.

Ordinarily, me either. But a large % of my friends and acquantances do. And that is their perogative, but I have been involved in many, many conversations regarding what dress my friends should wear to make them look their best in order to attract the men / impress whoever. It's human nature to want to impress people, and when people are faced with photoshopped and airbrushed pictures, they're trying to achieve the impossible with the huge ranges of make up / contouring / fat burning pills...

On your second point - NAIL. ON. THE. HEAD.

Dial Hard wrote: »

And I 100% disagree with this, tbh. I know a lot of women who I'd consider "high maintenance" in terms of their appearance and I can't think of a single one of them who does it because she's trying to impress a man/men in general. In my experience, women dress far more for themselves and other women than they do men. And I don't read women's magazines/websites so I accept that I may be out of the loop but I have literally never once in my life seen an article asking "should I wake up before my boyfriend to put make up on so he doesn't see me without makeup?" If you have an example, I'd be genuinely interested to read it. Genuinely. I'm not being a "Link???" arsehole here.

And I know a lot of women who I'd consider "low maintenance" that worry they're not doing enough to impress others. I guess it's all down to personal experience and personal opinion though.

As for links - just a quick few (will try source a better one later):
http://thehairpin.com/2011/02/you-are-not-alone-make-up-and-the-morning-after/
http://www.xovain.com/how-to/makeup-before-he-wakes-up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2291984/When-YOU-let-boyfriend-make-80-wait-MONTH.html

Dial Hard · 28-04-2016 8:41am

sullivlo wrote: »

As for links - just a quick few (will try source a better one later):
http://thehairpin.com/2011/02/you-are-not-alone-make-up-and-the-morning-after/
http://www.xovain.com/how-to/makeup-before-he-wakes-up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2291984/When-YOU-let-boyfriend-make-80-wait-MONTH.html

Just read all three of those. Jesus Christ, the women in the first one need a serious dose of cop on.

I'm one of the vainest people I know but I have never in my life even contemplated waking up before a bloke to fix/do my make-up. I'm actually a bit gob-smacked, tbh. Perhaps I'm just very naïve.

sullivlo · 28-04-2016 9:27am

Dial Hard wrote: »

Just read all three of those. Jesus Christ, the women in the first one need a serious dose of cop on.

I'm one of the vainest people I know but I have never in my life even contemplated waking up before a bloke to fix/do my make-up. I'm actually a bit gob-smacked, tbh. Perhaps I'm just very naïve.

This is my point though. There is a section of the population that DO get up before their OH.

Sure look at the recent article about a girl who's been with her OH for 5 years and hasn't farted in front of him!! Some people really need a reality check.

Sapphire · 28-04-2016 10:02am

Dial Hard wrote: »

Just read all three of those. Jesus Christ, the women in the first one need a serious dose of cop on.

I'm one of the vainest people I know but I have never in my life even contemplated waking up before a bloke to fix/do my make-up. I'm actually a bit gob-smacked, tbh. Perhaps I'm just very naïve.

I love my sleep too much. Even in my youth when I was massively insecure about being seen without make-up my slumber took priority. I've no issue with women spending hours and hours on their appearance if its for them and what they want to do. But I do feel that this kind of insecurity where you are actually terrified of the man you regularly have sex with seeing you without full make-up is actually quite sad to me. Same goes for spanx or silicone bra inserts. Go for it if it gives you a better shape in an outfit but it shouldn't be to the point where you feel you are lesser as a person and ashamed of your appearance if you happen go out without them.

meeeeh · 28-04-2016 10:23am

Dial Hard wrote: »

Just read all three of those. Jesus Christ, the women in the first one need a serious dose of cop on.

I'm one of the vainest people I know but I have never in my life even contemplated waking up before a bloke to fix/do my make-up. I'm actually a bit gob-smacked, tbh. Perhaps I'm just very naïve.

I think often is insecurities not vanity that cause women act like that.

I will be the first to admit that what my partner thinks does influence my behavior. Every so often I get very tempted to cut my hair to half an inch length (again) but I know he prefers me with longer hair. I would never even consider not cutting my hair to get a man though.

I wear makeup, I like high heels, I like to look into a mirror and be comfortable with what I see. I grew up with mother who admired high fashion for it's craftsmanship and design qualities. She one of the least vain people I know but at sixtyfive she is taking art history lessons and traveling to different art and design exhibitions. I have some of the same personality traits. Sometimes is just nice to look nice,to look at nice things and own nice things. People through history adorned their bodies in different ways for aesthetic reason but also to convey a message about themselves.

Yes there are different pressures on women how to dress, how to look and so on but that is also a good thing. The pressure was there through the history but often only for those who had some social standing. No pressure also means you are invisible, you don't matter to the society.

28-04-2016 10:23am

Dial Hard wrote: »

I'm one of the vainest people I know but I have never in my life even contemplated waking up before a bloke to fix/do my make-up. I'm actually a bit gob-smacked, tbh. Perhaps I'm just very naïve.

This kind of thing always makes me smile ... apart from the shenanigans and positions you may have been in the night before, when you're asleep you could be farting, drooling, snoring, jaw-dangling, spread-eagled, boobs slapped together ... but yeah, fix that make up before he sees you! :pac:

Olishi4 · 28-04-2016 1:08pm

sullivlo wrote: »

Ordinarily, me either. But a large % of my friends and acquantances do. And that is their perogative, but I have been involved in many, many conversations regarding what dress my friends should wear to make them look their best in order to attract the men / impress whoever. It's human nature to want to impress people, and when people are faced with photoshopped and airbrushed pictures, they're trying to achieve the impossible with the huge ranges of make up / contouring / fat burning pills...
]

I suppose the way I see it, is that if a woman dresses and tries to look what she personally feels is her best, and say for example is going on a date or hoping to meet someone, there is a difference between her saying "I hope he likes me when I feel at my best" to a woman wearing or dressing in something that she doesn't feel comfortable in or feels is "not me" because someone told her that's what men like. I dont see the latter as much and havent come accross it too much in my circle tbh. I find most people to be quite headstrong about their personal choice of style but of course there are people who are insecure and look to others to validate them and some go to extreme lengths. Like I personally just couldn't spend the time with the false tan. I've worn a bit of the wash off rimmel stuff and it still never gets on my bedsheets, so im always thinking "huh? How much are you using?" when people say that but then I'd sit in the hairdressers for threes feckin hours getting my highlights done which i hate doing but love the results

Anyway i would say that sometimes people do eventually overcome insecurities to an extent or they sometimes become further ingrained but they still usually grow and become a bit more accepting of themself especially as they get older.

The thing with a woman waking up and putting on make up before the man wakes up is just someone not ready to show something that makes them feel vulnerable to someone else. If it's a ONS, maybe she is happy to only let the guy see that part of her and I think that's fair enough. It does seem a bit much but people, men and women, like to keep their guard up in all sorts of ways. If they are together for ages and it's still a thing where she is getting up early to put on makeup, it does sound ridiculous to me and to most but to a woman that wants to do that then it's just how she is. And I'd hazard a guess that most of the time if he is a decent fella, it's not the man putting pressure on her to do it but he is accepting that it is something she has an irrational outlook on and he accepts that flaw just as he would accept all her flaws without makeup.

Men and women both have insecurities and they manifest in all kinds of different ways. Some subtle and don't really effect anyone significantly, other times in the form of obsessions and low self esteem. It's harder for some people to fix that I guess so they cover it. Whether or not it is increased by current society, social media or peer pressure, it's hard to know.

intheclouds · 28-04-2016 1:39pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

I'm one of the vainest people I know but I have never in my life even contemplated waking up before a bloke to fix/do my make-up. I'm actually a bit gob-smacked, tbh. Perhaps I'm just very naïve.

I actually dont understand how it would be possible to always be in full make up in front of someone you live with.

I mean, when you share a bed and bathroom, you will see the person without makeup at some stage.

bigpink · 28-04-2016 3:51pm

Anyone here on the Beauty Boxx page on Facebook?
Some of the posts are crazy

One eyed Jack · 28-04-2016 5:40pm

sullivlo wrote: »

Those websites wouldn't exist if there wasn't an appeal to enough people. In the general sense of the population of women, perhaps there isn't a huge interest (if you consider the population from birth to death), however in the age group of 18-40, I'd hazard a guess that a high % of women pay some level of attention to what is written on those sites - well based on likes/shares/retweets amongst my friends. People notice these things. They mightn't take them on board, but they do still notice.

Well yeah, there's definitely enough women who don't feel they measure up to an ideal for these websites to make a profit off through advertising and product placement and so on. Certainly I'd agree with there's a high % of women who pay attention to them, and that's why they might be given to believe that these sites are actually more popular than they are - because the articles and so on are shared among people in their peer group.

To try and extrapolate that perception out to wider society though is what takes some doing. That's exactly where the pressure is coming from. These articles and comments don't write themselves, they're written by women selling something. Tess Holliday for example is a role model for young women everywhere, but I doubt she'll be showing up on any social media feeds among your peer group any time soon. Who the f is Tess Holliday?

Tess Holliday: Size 26 supermodel warns social media is not real life

Plus-size model Tess Holliday slams claims that her weight could put her unborn baby at risk as she shares images of herself hitting the gym at six-months pregnant

One might think that 1 million followers on twitter is a lot, but to put that in perspective, Katy Perry has 87 times that figure last time I checked (87 million), and Taylor Swift only has 76 million followers... :P

How popular is her.ie?

Ranked 211th in Ireland, with 450k followers on social media.

sullivlo wrote: »

Perhaps I can agree with you in terms of society/peer pressure. When I say "society" I mean in the sense of the people that women interact with in their day to day life. I can only speak from personal experience, and I do think that as a 29 year old woman that there is increasing pressure from "society" (not necessarily my peers but the industry) to look good - make up, diets, flattering clothes, hair removal (OMG the PRESSURE of hair removal!) etc etc etc. This doesn't impact me - how I look only matters to ME, I don't actually care what anyone else thinks of how I dress (if I did, I wouldn't cycle in lycra )

However if you have had different experiences to me, then that's perfectly okay too. I'm going to hazard a guess that you're not a 29 year old female so I reckon we won't see eye to eye on many of these issues. And remember, if you're looking into a situation, you're only seeing it from the outside.

Ahh I don't think our experiences are all that different. I'm old enough to remember thinking what was all the fuss about when Julia Roberts showed her underarm hair back in '99, so that now when Laci Green does it, thinking she's making some sort of a stand for women, I'm thinking "Laci? It's been done, before you were even born!"

You're right though that I'm only seeing it from the outside, because of course I'm not parsing everything through the lens of social media and my own peer groups. I don't feel the pressure that you feel as a 29 year old woman that you feel coming from society. But, I do see how women are constantly, and I mean constantly, being bombarded with messages that they're just not measuring up to someone else's ideal. I see Kate Hudson sellling fabletics, and I'm thinking "if a woman could actually fit into that, she wouldn't bloody need it!

". I see Beyonce when she's not making creative use of filters is telling all the single ladies about her latest line in active wear.

I absolutely see how women are given conflicting and confusing messages all the time, and the more they're told by other women how they're not measuring up, the more they're going to become resentful of their peer group, because now they're not fitting in any more, and they have a choice - try harder to fit in, or work on accepting themselves for who they are and doing things for themselves, without seeking validation from their peer group.

What they should remember too as you say - is that they're only seeing people from the outside too. They're only seeing what their peer group wants them to see, so if someone in your cycling peer group are being a bit less than honest about their cycles because they want to make themselves look better on social media, it's not going to be immediately apparent to you.

sullivlo wrote: »

And I know a lot of women who I'd consider "low maintenance" that worry they're not doing enough to impress others. I guess it's all down to personal experience and personal opinion though.

As for links - just a quick few (will try source a better one later):
http://thehairpin.com/2011/02/you-are-not-alone-make-up-and-the-morning-after/
http://www.xovain.com/how-to/makeup-before-he-wakes-up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2291984/When-YOU-let-boyfriend-make-80-wait-MONTH.html

I counted five different products being advertised in that link:

1. Yes To Blueberries Age Refreshing Cleansing Facial Towelettes

2. Neutrogena Healthy Skin Primer

3. Benefit Fake Up

4. Pacifica Radiant Shimmer Coconut Multiples

5. Neutrogena Revitalizing Lip Balm

If I didn't know better, I'd think she was being paid by cosmetics companies to sell their products. Naaah

As for the whole idea of sleeping with your make-up on, well, who "better" to tell women they're not doing it right, than Kim Kardashian's make-up artist, commenting in Marie Claire magazine:

If You're Going to Sleep in Your Makeup, Do It Like This
Kim Kardashian's makeup artist Mario Dedivanovic lays down the law.

Is Kim K a role model in that many Irish women between 18-40 peer groups?

I don't know, and tbh I'd hate to hazard a guess that she could well be...

Have Irish women became obsessed with looks/beauty etc

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