Spayed cat in heat? (Formerly the Feline Cystitis thread!)

Rancid

Those 2 cats are cause for concern and you definitely don't want to undo any of your recent progress with Ripley.
So, a bit of advance planning might lessen the worry and the bad effects.

If these cats are used to hanging around the back garden and back door, work it out so the room you confine Ripley to for the first while is at the front of the house.
That might give time to get the cats vet checked, etc. Just totally avoid having them in your house, even in carrier boxes or cages on the way to the vet, and talk to the neighbour who feeds them, if possible see if you can trap them *through* her house. If she feeds them, she's probably cat-friendly already!
The other thought is to prevent Ripley actually seeing these cats at the windows, could you cover up the lower part of the windows somehow? Unsightly cardboard or that stick on-peel off type of glass film? Anything to prevent her seeing the cats and getting stressed.
Decorators seem to use some kind of painted on stuff to obscure windows, not sure what it is.
Your new neighbours will just think you're redecorating (or crazy!).

loveisdivine

Well one of the first things we had planned to do was put in a catio for Ripley and it would be at the patio doors where the other cats sit. So that would block them off from simply sitting at the door and peering in.

I'm definitely gonna try and talk to the neighbours to see what the story is with the cats. In an ideal world I'd get them neutered and vet checked then see if they could be rehomed. Or if I can introduce them slowly to Ripley I'm more than happy to keep them as outdoor cats. The poor things probably need all the TLC they can get.

Somebody mentioned putting stickers and plant pots on the bottoms of the windows to remind her that even though she can see them they can't get in.

I'd imagine for the first few days all the commotion of us moving in will probably make hem keep their distance.

Is it worth trying to get Ripley accustomed to other cats in the meantime? We get a few coming through the garden where we are now. The very first time she hissed and growled but every other time since then she just stares at them then runs to all the windows trying to get a good look!

Rancid

The catio is a great idea. Lots of high stuff for her to perch on, ledges and hiding places so she feels secure and in control.
The plant pots are another brilliant idea, you know how cats love to hide behind things and watch... even when they're just behind a little plant they think they're invisible!

Longterm it's probably sensible to let Ripley interact with other cats, but at the moment don't rock the boat too much, she's making progress, that's priority.
In the new house, it's a new start, slowly but surely she'll adapt, I hope.

How has she been the last few days?

loveisdivine

She's doing well. Still no pee accidents so I think we're pretty safe to assume she's sorted in that regard now. Behaviour and mood are all good

Pooping is still weird. We finally managed to get something on video, but she's not freaking out quite as much now so it doesn't look as dramatic on the video as it had been a week ago. Also I turned the screen by accident so you have to watch with your head tilted and poor Ripley looks terribly undignified it in! She started to go on the bed so my husband picked her up to put her in her tray but she started going before she was fully in! Basically it was a bit of a disaster.

The only progress made with pooping is that she goes into the tray and squats, but then changes her mind and runs out. The squat is further than we had gotten before. But she's still holding it in, she kept going in and squatting all day yesterday but didn't finally go until about 7pm.

Heres the video, you'll need to enter the password Ripley to see it.

https://vimeo.com/176204646

loveisdivine

We're going to start her on the lactulose and see if that helps. A bigger dose this time round. If it does help then it would seem we are looking at a hydration problem, which may require a change in diet.

I wish I could think of a better way to get it on video. She stops and starts so much before she finally poops that it's hard to be recording her constantly on just a phone.

SillyMangoX

She looks so insulted in the video, like how dare you try and show the world that I poop, I'm a lady!! :pac:
What food is she on at the moment?

loveisdivine

She's on a good food, Lilys Kitchen Chicken Parfait wet food and she gets a sprinkle of Canagans dry food too. The vet said it would need to be a higher fibre diet. I just hope they don't try and push royal canin as I have no intention of feeding her that crap. I'd rather just keep adding pumpkin or something to her current food.

maggiepip

I actually wouldn't get too worried about the type of food if you can find a food to solve the problem. I've recently, shock of horrors, had to start feeding my elderly Labrador tinned Chappie!! She cant tolerate anything else now. Shes been cleared of pancreatitis and other problems by the vet , but after trying about 10 different high quality foods, including homecooking, out of desperation I tried tinned Chappie as I'd read it settles tummies. Its working a miracle and for a "low quality crappy food" its become a lifesaver!

loveisdivine

Last night was horrible, she had her first dose of Lactulose, it's a high dose and I don't think it agreed with her at all. She had it at 9pm with her food and at half 11 she woke us up meowing and crying and this continued till about 6am. She seemed really agitated and wouldn't settle at all. At about 2.30am she pooped in my hair! It was a bit softer but not diarrhoea or anything.

It's annoying because this last week since she came back from the new vets has been the best week we've had in months. Really seemed like back to her old self behaviour and mood wise.

It can't just be a coincidence that I give her this big dose of lactulose and within a couple of hours she's back her old tricks?

Rancid

What a dreadful night you had.

Such an immediate and serious reaction has to be connected to the Lactulose, it's unlikely to be a coincidence, I think.
Just a thought... is one of the components of Lactulose lactose from milk? Wouldn't that imply that being lactose intolerant would be a contra-indication to prescribing it?
I'm sure you'll be in contact with the vets today, so just query that.
And could she be super-sensitive to sugar?

You had a great week with her last week, so just focus on the fact that improvement is *possible*, it's just a matter of getting it in balance. Adding or changing her food might be the best approach to softening the poop. That Lactulose reaction was a disaster.

maggiepip

Lactulose is a type of stool softener sugar solution, theres no milk products in it. It probably caused her stomach cramps, especially if the dose was too high. Ask your vet , but Id cut the dose down a bit and build it up slowly if necessary. Its not quite the same as a laxative, it draws water into the bowel to soften the poo and help it move along, and can take a few days to work.

Eta: apologies it does actually contain lactose, I wasn't aware of that.

loveisdivine

I spoke to the vets there and while she said it would be unlikely for the lactulose to have such a reaction it's probably best not to give her anymore.

I don't think it helped that I took her water away at about midnight because she kept knocking the bowl over, then when I gave it back to her at about half 2 she was incredibly thirsty and drank for ages. I felt guilty about taking it away for a bit, but she just kept spilling it everywhere. I've already ordered a new bowl that will hopefully stop her tipping it.

We're going to try a new food, I think it's Hills i/d. Not great quality but if it helps then I'll just have to make peace with it. We're also going to take some faecal samples just to make double sure there's no bacterial stuff going on in her poop.

Fingers crossed tonight will be better

p.s we're signing the contracts on the new house today so should definitely be moving in by the end of August. I'm really hoping that after the initial stress of moving, having more space and freedom will help keep her content.

Here's the ingredients, looks like a tiny amount of lactose.

"Lactulose is a synthetic disaccharide in solution form for oral or rectal administration. Each 15 mL of Lactulose Solution USP contains 10 g lactulose (and less than 1.6 g galactose, less than 1.2 g lactose, and 0.1 g or less of fructose). It also contains D&C Yellow No. 10, FD & C Yellow No. 6 and Purified Water."

maggiepip

loveisdivine wrote: »

I spoke to the vets there and while she said it would be unlikely for the lactulose to have such a reaction it's probably best not to give her anymore.

I don't think it helped that I took her water away at about midnight because she kept knocking the bowl over, then when I gave it back to her at about half 2 she was incredibly thirsty and drank for ages. I felt guilty about taking it away for a bit, but she just kept spilling it everywhere. I've already ordered a new bowl that will hopefully stop her tipping it.

We're going to try a new food, I think it's Hills i/d. Not great quality but if it helps then I'll just have to make peace with it. We're also going to take some faecal samples just to make double sure there's no bacterial stuff going on in her poop.

Fingers crossed tonight will be better

p.s we're signing the contracts on the new house today so should definitely be moving in by the end of August. I'm really hoping that after the initial stress of moving, having more space and freedom will help keep her content.

Here's the ingredients, looks like a tiny amount of lactose.

"Lactulose is a synthetic disaccharide in solution form for oral or rectal administration. Each 15 mL of Lactulose Solution USP contains 10 g lactulose (and less than 1.6 g galactose, less than 1.2 g lactose, and 0.1 g or less of fructose). It also contains D&C Yellow No. 10, FD & C Yellow No. 6 and Purified Water."

Yes apologies, I edited my post above, I hadn't thought it contained actual lactose (my mother uses it!)

Good luck with the new food, if it helps her you'll get over the quality concern. I've come to terms with feeding my dog Chappie !

loveisdivine

Husband just got home and said there was diarrhoea all over the floor The poor thing! I'm assuming it's the lactulose. Wish I'd never given it to her now.

loveisdivine

Much better last night so it must have been the lactulose. Let's see how we get on with the new food.

loveisdivine

I've stopped trying to give her the new food. I was mixing some of it into her regular food but it's giving her really squishy poops everyday. It's bad enough having to clean up poop all round the house without it being runny and horrible. On Saturday evening she managed to get it all down the stairs and down the wall!

Still not really any progress. She seems to be going into her tray more and digging about but not doing anything. I put one of her poops from the floor into the tray and she went in and covered it up. I decided to leave it there for a day or so to see if it would encourage her but no luck.

Managed to get a round litter tray from maxi zoo and put that downstairs, she's used it for pee but obviously no poo.

is it worth me swapping the trays around, keeping the same locations but just changing which tray is where? Or might that put her off more?

I feel like she wants to use the tray but just needs that last push, only I'm not sure what that last push is!

loveisdivine

She's also taken to standing where she knows the food is kept and whining until you giver her some. It's our fault for giving in but now we have to try and ignore it and it's really annoying! She's getting more than enough food so I know it's not genuine hunger.

Rancid

loveisdivine wrote: »

.... is it worth me swapping the trays around, keeping the same locations but just changing which tray is where? Or might that put her off more?

I feel like she wants to use the tray but just needs that last push, only I'm not sure what that last push is!

I don't know if moving and swapping the boxes will make any difference, always worth trying and see the results.

You could also try getting a deeper box. One of my cats used to randomly poop on the floor right beside the litter box until I replaced the traditional type with a box with 6 inch high sides. (It was sold as a small under-bed storage box)
She uses it without fail, but with her two front paws actually up on the edge of the box, so she's almost vertical when pooping rather than the usual squatting position.
I have no idea if that might appeal to Ripley, but at this stage, anything and everything is worth a shot.

kathleen37

Rancid wrote: »

I don't know if moving and swapping the boxes will make any difference, always worth trying and see the results.

You could also try getting a deeper box. One of my cats used to randomly poop on the floor right beside the litter box until I replaced the traditional type with a box with 6 inch high sides. (It was sold as a small under-bed storage box)
She uses it without fail, but with her two front paws actually up on the edge of the box, so she's almost vertical when pooping rather than the usual squatting position.
I have no idea if that might appeal to Ripley, but at this stage, anything and everything is worth a shot.

One of ours pees and poos exactly like this.

Rancid

kathleen37 wrote: »

One of ours pees and poos exactly like this.

All good... as long as the poop is fairly solid. A bit of "assisted cleansing" when it's not!
Same cat used to start peeing in the normal position and gradually raise her rear end until she was in spraying position. Had a 12 inch deep litter box in those days, otherwise the wall got drenched!
Cats! :rolleyes:

kathleen37

Rancid wrote: »

All good... as long as the poop is fairly solid. A bit of "assisted cleansing" when it's not!
Same cat used to start peeing in the normal position and gradually raise her rear end until she was in spraying position. Had a 12 inch deep litter box in those days, otherwise the wall got drenched!
Cats! :rolleyes:

They're a joy, aren't they?

The only issue we have with our one is that as well as more or less "standing up" she also has to balance on the edges of the litter tray. She tipped it over yesterday while she was getting comfy but that doesn't thankfully happen too often...

morgana

Ah cat's and their toileting habits ^^
Nothing to do with the OP, just for some light relief. I do hope Ripley will be back to normal soon.

Ours are doing their business outside most of the time with just one tray indoors for emergencies / bad weather. However, our eldest (14 years) recently started to use it (after steadfastly refusing to use it and rather peeing in the bathtub (very considerate :P)) prominently depositing her business without bothering to cover it at all. Probably showing the rest, I'm still the Queen, don't you dare say otherwise!

loveisdivine

Feeling fed up.

There's nothing else we can do accept resign ourselves to the fact our house will be one giant litter tray that constantly smells like ****.

Was looking forward to having my family over from England in the new house but now I'm dreading it. What if they get up in the night to use the bathroom and tread in poo?

Nothing we do makes a difference. She's obviously just gonna do whatever she wants.

So much money in vet bills and it's got us nowhere. Next step is MRI and colonoscopy which together will cost around €1000 and they'll probably find nothing. We have insurance but we don't have the money to pay the bill in the first place and what if they find some excuse not to pay out. Plus it has to be done at 2 different vets and would all be very stressful for her.

Oh well. Got another day of cleaning **** off carpets to look forward too.

kathleen37

This must be so disheartening.

So, kitty is using the tray for pees, but refusing to use it to poo? Is she now pooing normally? Is the issue with what appeared to be pain on pooing over?

kathleen37

This must be so disheartening.

So, kitty is using the tray for pees, but refusing to use it to poo? Is she now pooing normally? Is the issue with what appeared to be pain on pooing over?

loveisdivine

Yep she's using it for pee's which is great but still not poops. Her poops are mostly normal, the last 2 have been a little smaller and firmer so I gave her just 1 ml of lactulose this morning. Not 5ml like last week which made her ill! I'll give her another 1 ml tonight and see if that helps.

I don't think she's in pain like she was. She's not spending 10 minutes before the poop acting all scared and crazy. She darts about a little bit after she poops but I believe it's not uncommon for cats to do that anyway and because she's doing it on the floor she's probably running away from it because she knows she shouldn't be doing it there.

My best guess at the minute is that she still thinks that pooing in her tray is going to hurt, so she holds them in which in turn makes the poo a little hard because it's sitting in the colon for too long and subsequently drying out, this then means that when she does poop it's probably a bit uncomfortable and that perpetuates her fear of pooing. It's like a vicious circle that seems very hard to break.

In fairness, looking back, this last week has been a mixture of squishy poops (from the large dose of lactulose and then trying to change the food), a few normal poops and then now some slightly smaller harder ones.

Maybe if we could get a long enough streak of consistently good poops, that are easy to pass, she might in time realise it doesn't hurt anymore. But if the fear continues and she keeps holding it in for too long, she's always going to end up with a small bit of constipation and she'll always be uncomfortable/scared.

Edit - we are dropping a poop sample off today at the vets for testing. If that comes back clear, which I imagine it will, I think before we start talking about the colonoscopy it might be worth keeping her on a low dose of lactulose for a couple of weeks at least to see if that helps.

Because there really was an improvement (albeit a small one) when she came back from being on the drip and was super hydrated. She still didn't use the tray but the pooing was much calmer and the poo itself was good. I think the vet just went in a bit too strong with the 5ml dose of lactulose.

intheclouds

Will the new house have a garden? Can you put in a shed and make it a nice cat palace so that if you have visitors she can stay out in the shed for a day or two? Or even a spare room cat palace?

loveisdivine

We do have space outside but I think that may stress her out quite a bit. She's a very needy cat with regards to always needing to be near you. I guess if the problem is still here when we have guests I'll have to keep her in our room or something.

I know my post earlier was a bit dramatic. It's just a very stressful time for all of us. All these cat problems, buying the new house and all the stress that comes with it, plus now that we know we are only a few weeks away, living with my MIL seems to have become even more unbearable!

One of these on their own would be ok, all happening at the same time leads to frustrations.

kathleen37

So, you have some good stuff in there.

How much time does she have alone? I think you're sharing at the moment, so what space does she have?

loveisdivine

kathleen37 wrote: »

So, you have some good stuff in there.

How much time does she have alone? I think you're sharing at the moment, so what space does she have?

She usually wouldn't have much time on her own. Maybe an hour when my husband does the shopping. Every now and again we might pop out for a few hours. But on an average day there is usually always someone there.

Her space is more limited that I would like. She has our bedroom, the spare room, landing and hall. She also has access to the kitchen a few times a day but the door is usually closed if we are not in there because there is breakable stuff. We take her into the garden a couple times a week too.

Part of me hopes there will be improvements in the new house because she will have more space, won't be as restricted and she hates my MIL so will be calmer without her around. But then I wonder if I'm just kidding myself to try and feel better about it all!

kathleen37

I wonder if she needs more "alone" time? What about leaving her in the spare room for several hours with some cat toys? And I'd try two litter trays in there - sort of obviously placed, middle of the room sort of thing. Also, she would need some up off the floor space, or access up to a windowsill, or on a table in front of a window sill so she can look out the window. I wonder if she's becoming too reliant on the pair of you?

It sounds like the pooing issue is certainly coming from where it was previously painful for her, but it as long as it isn't painful any more then it does need sorting.

(I wouldn't be unduly worried about the house move at the moment. I have always kept mine in for about 3 or4 weeks before letting her outside - and start off by letting her out just before she's due her dinner. The food usually gets them back in. She will definitely appreciate having more space to explore)

Some of the other guys may have some thoughts?

morgana

Try to train her to associate pooing in the tray with nice things - such as a treat?

loveisdivine

She's actually a fully indoor cat cos she's deaf. She only goes outside when supervised. We are adding a catio to the new house so she will have more freedom to be outside when she chooses. Also, there are 2 cats currently living in the large garden at the new house, the current owner feeds them but say's she doesn't own them so won't be taking them with her! So that poses possible issues when we first move, we need to be careful that any introduction, either face to face or through windows, happens slowly to avoid territory issues.

She has cat trees and windows that she enjoys sitting in. She is very clingy though so it might be an idea to try and give her some alone time. Usually if we shut her out of whatever room we are in, she will sit outside the door and meow. Most of the time she eventually goes off and finds somewhere to sleep.

We actually used treats to get her back around the trays in the beginning when she was peeing everywhere. One of the biggest obstacles with the pooping is because she's doing it around 3 or 4 am most of the time, it's hard to redirect her or anything.

I decided this morning to break her food down in to 3 smaller meals over the course of the day, in the hope it might make her poo a bit more so we have a chance to intervene and get her in the tray, then praise and treats when she's finished.

intheclouds

When we found our girl living in a bin with kittens, we brought her for neutering immediately and because we didnt know her tame levels we got a big cage from Argos and set it up as a cat palace with a bed, toys, food/water and a litter tray off to the side. It meant she had a contained space to recover after her neutering as well.

She had a bit of trouble with the litter tray initially (probably just sore and awkward after her op) but it was grand because it was contained in the cage which had a removable bottom tray.

We would let her out for a while with us and then back in again, after a few days she was out most of the time and only in at night and eventually after a couple of weeks it was just left with the door open so she could go in if she wanted.

Anyway, the point is - what about keeping her in a contained space like that at night - still in the room with you so she can see you etc, but with a litter tray in it for her to use.

kathleen37

We have 3 deaf cats, and the only thing to worry about is if you're near any roads. They are completely fine with the others, inside and out and even the feral cats.

Is she a grazer of does she always finish off her food in one go? We feed ours morning and evening, but perhaps if she's used to how you're doing it, perhaps keep it that way for a while longer? She's had an awful lot going on lately so trying to calm stuff down for her, getting a bit of a routine going may also be helpful.

And if I were you, I would defo put her in the spare room at night. She should be grand, and at least the two of you will benefit from some uninterrupted sleep.

Put lots of catnip in the spare room and feliway plug in and she'll be chilled out in no time!

loveisdivine

I'm afraid we can't risk her pooping on the bed in the spare room cos it's not our house. My MIL would go mad. Unfortunately we are restricted with what we can do while we are still in this house, only 3 ish more weeks to go though!

She used to finish in one go but these days tend to graze and come looking for extra dry food. That's why I'm gonna try and get a better routine going with the 3 small meals. We are also going to remove whatever food is left after 30 minutes.

We thought about keeping her in a dog crate at night back when she was still peeing and pooping everywhere but the old vet put us off the idea because she said making her less mobile would just make the constipation worse, as she needs to be able to move about to keep her digestion going.

In the new house I can keep her in one of the spare rooms for the first couple of days and just let her out for supervised play. Obviously I would have liked to have made some progress before we actually move but I'm not confident that's going to happen.

loveisdivine

My husband just gave her the second small meal for today and he say's she's leaving the wet food in the bowl and just scratching at the box where we keep the dry food.

Maybe I'm being mean but I think we have to just stay firm and not give in. We started to give in and now all she wants is the dry and it's not good because that will just dehydrate her more.

intheclouds

We only give ours dry food. Its ok if theyre good drinkers.

Nody

Love with the move coming up and this pointing more and more towards behavioral I'd look at the move as a way to reset things because of all the other changes. Talking limited room access etc. to try to redirect the behavior back to the toilet.

loveisdivine

Yeah I'm thinking it is behavioural now. There's just a fear there that she can't get over.

When she pooped this morning I tried to get her in the tray but she just wrestled out and did it on the shelf instead. She didn't seem in discomfort when she was actually doing it.

Am I going to need a whole new set of trays for the new house? I hope not cos I've already spent loads on them.

Nody

loveisdivine wrote: »

Yeah I'm thinking it is behavioural now. There's just a fear there that she can't get over.

When she pooped this morning I tried to get her in the tray but she just wrestled out and did it on the shelf instead. She didn't seem in discomfort when she was actually doing it.

Am I going to need a whole new set of trays for the new house? I hope not cos I've already spent loads on them.

No need for new trays; simply fill them up to about 4 inches and keep her in a very small room with it to try to get things going (and no go to bedroom).

Rancid

Nody wrote: »

No need for new trays; simply fill them up to about 4 inches and keep her in a very small room with it to try to get things going (and no go to bedroom).

loveisdivine, after all you've been through I really think this is the only way.
It would be very tough on all of you to restrict her to one room where you are at the moment, but the new house is new ground for all of you and it's the perfect time to start over.

aonb

what NODY and RANCID say makes sense, moving to the new place will have her on her toes til she gets familiar. Easier in the new place to establish new routines too.
We were in UK last year for 6 weeks, poor Tux was in a cattery (it was 5* and she was spoiled rotten - came back with a posh-food-only-diet!!!) When she came back to our house, we used the unfamiliarity to establish some new habits. Same with the dog (who we brought with us). Worked pretty well...

loveisdivine

I'm thinking the bathroom would be the best place for this. It's not too big, easy to clean and the window is frosted so she won't be able to see/get stressed out by the resident garden cats.

Should I be leaving her in there 24 hours a day, or can she come out for some supervised exploring?

Also, how long should we keep her in there, until she's regularly pooping in a tray? She only currently goes about once every 24 hours so it could take a while.

I already know she's gonna cry and break my heart!

intheclouds

Id let her out for short supervised plays but Id go in and talk to her as well.

She WILL cry and break your heart but you have to just treat it as though she is recovering from an illness and has to rest.

Nody

Supervised play followed by feeding (hunt, kill, eat, groom, sleep cycle) which also means she should be more content to be in there.

loveisdivine

She's been very whiny for food the last few days. Switching to 3 meals hasn't really helped either. I thought that might keep her more satisfied but nope.

The vets said if there are any worms they will show in the fecal sample when we get the results. It's possible she picked them up from whatever she ate in the garden that made her really unwell the other week, but I've since given her a wormer from the vets so that should have cleared it up.

Her appetite just seems insatiable. We give her breakfast in the morning and then she just whines and paws at either the food bowl, or the box that has the food in it, till about 5 or 6 in the evening. Then she seems to calm down.

If we give her extra food, either wet or dry, she wolfes it down and then continues crying for more. I thought she was just playing us to get dry food which she loves, but she's wolfing down extra wet food which is unusual for her. I've asked my husband to weigh her when he gets a minute, see if she's lost or gained anything.

loveisdivine

She pooped in her tray! We'd just gotten into bed last night and she just out of the blue went in and did it! Not gonna get my hopes up too much just yet, but that's the first time in about 2 months!

Poop sample all came back clear. Her appetite is still through the roof but we'll just see how it goes. She hasn't gained or lost anything at the minute.

Rancid

loveisdivine wrote: »

She pooped in her tray! We'd just gotten into bed last night and she just out of the blue went in and did it! Not gonna get my hopes up too much just yet, but that's the first time in about 2 months!

Poop sample all came back clear. Her appetite is still through the roof but we'll just see how it goes. She hasn't gained or lost anything at the minute.

Great news, on both counts, especially the tray-poop!
Even just once going to the tray of her own accord is such progress. Hope it continues now.

loveisdivine

I know I can't believe she just did it! Apparently there was another one this morning, this time in a cardboard box she had been playing with. Still better than the floor