Spayed cat in heat? (Formerly the Feline Cystitis thread!)

Rancid

loveisdivine wrote: »

I know I can't believe she just did it! Apparently there was another one this morning, this time in a cardboard box she had been playing with. Still better than the floor

Exactly. She's doing it *inside* something, instead of randomly in open areas like the bed or the floor or a shelf.
Definitely a good sign.

loveisdivine

Got some more info from the vets this morning. They had submitted Ripleys entire history to UCD for a second opinion. The 2 main outcomes being that they initially suspect some sort of inflammatory bowel issue and they have suggested another food to try.

The second being that in her most recent urine sample (done by the previous vets) they found bilirubin, which apparently should not be found in a healthy cats urine at all. It can be present in a healthy dogs urine, but definitely not a cats. This could be a symptom of gallstones, which apparently could also be causing abdominal discomfort. They want to do an ultrasound to check for a gallstone and get another urine sample.

Last night she went into her tray and was digging around and squatting for a while, she clearly needed to poop but just couldn't, eventually she got spooked and legged it out of the tray. Then she held it in till this morning and did it on the floor.

I'm still pleased that we've had a small bit of progress though. Although I'm now concerned about this bilirubin and why the old vet didn't mention it when they did the analysis.

loveisdivine

Sometimes it feels like it's never ending with Ripley. Or maybe we're just really bad cat parents and somehow we are the ones causing all these problems.

Last night, for some reason we haven't figured out yet, she decided she's now scared of the skylight in our room. Since 5pm yesterday she's done her best to spend all her time hiding away in another room, or if we bring her into the room she snuggles right up against us and won't leave our side or hides under the quilt. She's barely pee'd because she's scared to move around the room to the litter boxes. She'd usually be sat in the window on her cat tree playing but she's literally just hidden away all night long. She peeks out and glares at the window looking terrified.

I don't think a cat could have scared her because they wouldn't be able to get close, cos it's a skylight. But we do get a lot of seagulls and they occasionally land on the roof. Maybe one of them scared her.

Any ideas for how I can show her there's nothing to be scared of?

Nody

Playing and treats LID; by playing with her she'll forget she's scared and with treats out there she'll (hopefully) start to get positive associations again.

loveisdivine

Bit all over the place at the weekend. We think it must have been a wasp or something that came in the window and gave her a fright as there's been a couple of moths in the room since and she's hissed at them and completely freaked out, whereas usually she'd just want to play with them.

So she's still a bit skittish because of that. We got another poop in a tray, but also another couple on the floor. She also vomited in the early hours of Sunday morning. It was quite a lot of it too, but thankfully just the one episode, she hasn't vomited again yet.

A bit of TMI poop info coming up! It seems her poops seem to follow a pattern at the minute, the first part is quite hard and dark, then there will be a longer softer piece and then usually the last bit is quite runny. It's like she has all the poop types in one poop! Bless her.

I did a bit of reading up on food intolerance in cats after the UCD vet suggested it and one of the causes that a lot of the sites mentioned is feeding the same food everyday for a long period of time. Apparently this can sometimes lead to the cat becoming intolerant to the protein in the food. Well we've been feeding her the same chicken only tinned food for about 9 months now. We did try changing to give her some variety but it seemed to make her a bit crazy behaviour wise, however we now know that this was also when she was going in and out of heat, so the behaviour issues were probably because of that.

Anyways, the vet wants to try this hills z/d food but to be honest I'm leaning towards trying to slowly introduce a raw food. If she's having food related tummy issues then surely the best thing for her would be a properly introduced species appropriate diet? There's a shop up the north that sells the Natures Menu frozen raw food so I have the option of sourcing it there, as we won't be living too far away.

I'm gonna discuss it with the vet tomorrow. Although I know most of them aren't super knowledgeable about raw diets.

kathleen37

loveisdivine wrote: »

Bit all over the place at the weekend. We think it must have been a wasp or something that came in the window and gave her a fright as there's been a couple of moths in the room since and she's hissed at them and completely freaked out, whereas usually she'd just want to play with them.

So she's still a bit skittish because of that. We got another poop in a tray, but also another couple on the floor. She also vomited in the early hours of Sunday morning. It was quite a lot of it too, but thankfully just the one episode, she hasn't vomited again yet.

A bit of TMI poop info coming up! It seems her poops seem to follow a pattern at the minute, the first part is quite hard and dark, then there will be a longer softer piece and then usually the last bit is quite runny. It's like she has all the poop types in one poop! Bless her.

I did a bit of reading up on food intolerance in cats after the UCD vet suggested it and one of the causes that a lot of the sites mentioned is feeding the same food everyday for a long period of time. Apparently this can sometimes lead to the cat becoming intolerant to the protein in the food. Well we've been feeding her the same chicken only tinned food for about 9 months now. We did try changing to give her some variety but it seemed to make her a bit crazy behaviour wise, however we now know that this was also when she was going in and out of heat, so the behaviour issues were probably because of that.

Anyways, the vet wants to try this hills z/d food but to be honest I'm leaning towards trying to slowly introduce a raw food. If she's having food related tummy issues then surely the best thing for her would be a properly introduced species appropriate diet? There's a shop up the north that sells the Natures Menu frozen raw food so I have the option of sourcing it there, as we won't be living too far away.

I'm gonna discuss it with the vet tomorrow. Although I know most of them aren't super knowledgeable about raw diets.

I looked into a raw diet for cats ,and to be honest - I think it's much more complicated than it is for dogs. From what I read, I decided against it for the cats. Perhaps someone with experience of actually using a raw diet with cats could give some more info.

I went instead with Applaws dry food - which is grain free and has from what I can see, one of the highest meat content in dry food.

They do wet food too so you could take those ingredient lists to your vet to see what they think.

Applaws isn't cheap - and I only feed it to a couple of ours that were having various problems. It is well liked though and I've not seen had any issues since starting using it...

loveisdivine

kathleen37 wrote: »

I looked into a raw diet for cats ,and to be honest - I think it's much more complicated than it is for dogs. From what I read, I decided against it for the cats. Perhaps someone with experience of actually using a raw diet with cats could give some more info.

I went instead with Applaws dry food - which is grain free and has from what I can see, one of the highest meat content in dry food.

They do wet food too so you could take those ingredient lists to your vet to see what they think.

Applaws isn't cheap - and I only feed it to a couple of ours that were having various problems. It is well liked though and I've not seen had any issues since starting using it...

Yeah I don't think I'd be up for making our own raw food but the Natures Menu one seems easy enough. It's complete, so I wouldn't need to add anything or supplement it, you just thaw what you need and give it to them.

Obviously any new diet is trial and error. We've actually fed her some of the applaws complimentary wet foods before as a treat and she always liked them.

I've popped an email to the vet anyway just to see what she thinks.

Nody

kathleen37 wrote: »

I looked into a raw diet for cats ,and to be honest - I think it's much more complicated than it is for dogs. From what I read, I decided against it for the cats. Perhaps someone with experience of actually using a raw diet with cats could give some more info.

Quite easy actually; how complicated you want to make it is up to you. The easiest route is to get this and only add meat, you're done. If you want to get more fancy you can go for grinding out larger bathes using Feline Nutrition as a base line. They also give advice on type of meat, Frankenstein diet, how to make the switch etc. Honestly it's the one stop shop for raw feeding for cats.

Or you can take my route of mixing the two; we do complete cans + kibble in the morning with mixed raw feeding (chicken/duck/turkey hearts, chicken necks, chicken/turkey thigh, chicken breast, chicken liver, etc. in various combinations) later in the day. For us the raw feeding made a significant change for one of our cats behavior in relaxing her and filling her.

loveisdivine

Thanks Nody. I might try giving her a small piece of raw food as a treat, just to see if she'll actually eat it. Would something like a small piece of chicken thigh with a bit of skin it be ok? We don't eat meat in our house so don't have anything to hand to just give her and see, so I'd have to go out and actually buy something.

Nody

loveisdivine wrote: »

Thanks Nody. I might try giving her a small piece of raw food as a treat, just to see if she'll actually eat it. Would something like a small piece of chicken thigh with a bit of skin it be ok? We don't eat meat in our house so don't have anything to hand to just give her and see, so I'd have to go out and actually buy something.

Anything as long as it does not contain cooked bone is ok (but chicken/turkey/duck/rabbit etc. over pork and cow is highly recommended).

Your best bet would go to a butcher and ask for 2 chicken necks (only chicken necks as Turkey is to thick), a couple of chicken hearts (no need to cut them up) and 50g of chicken liver & gut and try and see if she'd eat it (serve over two days). In the beginning she may paw it around a bit until she figures out how to eat it which is normal.

Another option would be to get a roasted chicken wing (Tesco sells them) and debone and remove all the skin & spiciness and serve that up (easier to eat). If you go with raw chicken thigh I'd remove the skin and cut it down to small cubes (easier to eat) as some cats needs to be trained to eat bigger and bigger pieces.

In our case we have one cat who'll bite me (it's a marking; she only puts her teeth on the skin to show you that she's annoyed at you ignoring her wishes; actual bites don't happen) to tell me I've waited to long to feed her raw and two more who'll try to steal the raw as I cut it up (and if you leave a cooked chicken to cool without covering it expect to find it on the floor with teeth marks...). On the other hand we have three other cats who'll come over and sniff it and walk away as well

loveisdivine

She's extremely skittish tonight. Hissing at everything, darting from one dark corner to another. Back all twitchy and skin rolling. I don't even know what she's scared of. She hissed at a switched off tv earlier.

loveisdivine

Right so, I spoke to the vet today and to be honest I've come away a bit conflicted.

She strongly advised against a raw diet for various reasons. Basically she's only had bad experiences with clients that were feeding raw and apparently the companies that make complete raw foods usually don't really know what their doing. Unlike the wonderful people at hills. She didn't seem to think feeding the same protein over and over again would have contributed to a food intolerance and basically says we need to try the hills z/d food before we try anything else.

I'm just not convinced that the hills food is going to be of any benefit. I mean it's 40% carbs! The only meat is hydrolyzed chicken liver. Apparently the idea of this hydrolyzed meat is that it's broken down into it's most basic components which tricks the immune system into thinking it's not really a protein so she won't react to it. Why not just feed something she's not possibly allergic too, instead of feeding the same thing and just disguising it.

Maybe I'm just being a food snob but I just don't feel great about it. I mean if the vet thinks she has an intolerance to her food, which is chicken only then why am I changing to another chicken only food? Just because this chickens been broken down?

Nody

Your cat; your choice Divine. I can tell you from experience that feeding raw is possible and given my experience above. Going full raw may be more complicated yes but it's far from impossible. As for ready made raw I can't really comment; I know I tried it once and our cats outright refused to eat it which is why we're doing our raw versions instead.

loveisdivine

I get the feeling if I don't follow her instructions/advice there isn't really a lot else she will do for us. She said if we switched to raw she wouldn't be able to offer any advice or anything.

Plus if we do feed the hills, she has to eat that and nothing else for like 8 weeks, to see if it actually works.

I think I'm just losing my faith in it all.

kathleen37

Why don't you try the hills on it's own for a few weeks (she might not eat it so decision could be made for you)

If there is an improvement, then you're on to a winner. If not, you could try supplimenting the Hills with raw. (I must admit, we give ours cooked chicken/fresh fish daily - but I never think of it as raw as it's cooked!!! Not as only though, half and half with the Appaws grain free dry)

loveisdivine

Ugh, the last 3 mornings in a row she's woken me up around 4 and just whined for literally hours until I get up. I'm about ready to throw her out!

I don't get it, Sunday morning she slept til 8am!

The only thing that's changed is we started giving her some of the turkey food.

Guess I'll have to go back to just the chicken.

I'm beginning to think adopting her was a huge mistake. Every damn day it's something else.

kathleen37

loveisdivine wrote: »

Ugh, the last 3 mornings in a row she's woken me up around 4 and just whined for literally hours until I get up.

You know, you getting up is confirming for her that she can get you to do what she wants, whenever she wants.

I would suggest you either ignore her, or get up and put her in the spare room/bathroom so you can go back and get some sleep.

I also wonder if all the short term changes aren't helping? How long have you been using the turkey - weeks? I don't think a few days of change (unless there is something obvious like upset stomach or something) will be showing you anything useful.

loveisdivine

I mean she will start the whining at say 4 am and will continue until I get up at around 7, which is when I always get up for work. For those 3 hours I basically lay there and try to ignore her and sometimes put earplugs in.

I started the turkey Sunday evening and then every morning since she's been crying and slightly agitated.

I think there are too many short term changes happening.

I'm not going to do anything now until after we've moved. I don't want to start the z/d at the same time as moving house as that's too much change in one go, plus if things improve we won't know if its the z/d or the change in environment.

I'm just going to keep feeding her normal chicken food and that's it.

I know we are probably making mistakes and sometimes making things worse instead of better, but we are honestly doing the best we can. It's been an incredible difficult 5-6 months and it starts to take it's toll after a while. We really are trying our best. I think we all just need a break from constant vets, diet changes and medicines.

kathleen37

Try not to beat yourself up. You are obviously doing all you can for your girl. It's just unfortunate that you're not in your own place at the min and are so a tad restricted, but hey - that's changing soon so that's excellent and once you have your own place, you'll have way more options open to you!

We have a small toilet/basin room that's all tiled, and so I use that as our clean up/medical room. It's actually lovely and cosy in there as there are several different cat beds and room for two trays. The main thing though is that it's easy to clean if there is any illness or injuries. It's also quarantine room if any of the cats get the snotters or anything. Wildlife goes in there if needed too (current have a recuperating Leisler bat in there) To be honest, I can't remember that last time the loo was actually used by a person... the point being - once you have your own place, you WILL have more options. I think you're amazing for being able to put up with all the poop all over the place for as long as you have. That is a huge amount of stress for you both. And it's also stressful being somewhere when you know your MIL doesn't have the kitty love...

So, things WILL get better. You ARE doing an excellent job.

Well done you!!!

loveisdivine

Ok so, we have the keys for the new house and hope to be moving in on Saturday. Ripley still not using trays but behaviour/sleeping is good now we're back on the just chicken food. So we are going to stick with the plan of confining her for a few days to try and reset the litter box training.

The cats that we suspected the old owner would leave behind are still here, we've given them something to eat and the poor things seemed ravenous. Organised a lend of some traps so should be able to get them to the vet in the next few days to get checked out. Can't really afford it but don't have much of a choice. The white one's ears are red raw from mites and I suspect sunburn.

They seem to have taken up residence outside the patio doors, which has easy access to the garage so I'm going to put a couple of plants infront of the doors so they can't just stare straight in at Ripley.

I've got the feliways plugged in ready. Anything else I can do to ease the transition/introduction to each other?

Nody

loveisdivine wrote: »

I've got the feliways plugged in ready. Anything else I can do to ease the transition/introduction to each other?

High places for Ripley to look out from the inside; height tend to help make them feel more secure and in control and distraction with dried chicken when they spot the other cats (or other high value treat) to get positive associations going.

loveisdivine

Just spoke to my husband who's at the house now. He says the 2 cats keep trying to get into the house, trying to climb through windows and stuff!

I've a feeling this will be a bit of a nightmare but there you go.

I'll make sure there's a cat tree in the kitchen.

If I want to try and introduce them I imagine it's something we need to do slowly and use treats/food.

intheclouds

loveisdivine wrote: »

Just spoke to my husband who's at the house now. He says the 2 cats keep trying to get into the house, trying to climb through windows and stuff!

I've a feeling this will be a bit of a nightmare but there you go.

I'll make sure there's a cat tree in the kitchen.

If I want to try and introduce them I imagine it's something we need to do slowly and use treats/food.

They must be familiar with going into the house.

Would you not try to get them rehomed elsewhere?

Nody

loveisdivine wrote: »

If I want to try and introduce them I imagine it's something we need to do slowly and use treats/food.

Feeding behind a closed door at the same time starting probably 1m away from the door for a week or two moving closer without opening the door. After that is done without drama feeding in the same room at opposite ends and moving closer slowly. Speed obviously dependent on the reaction etc.

loveisdivine

I can't believe she'd let them in the house in their current state though, they clearly have mites/fleas. Once you catch them coming in they run back out and sit just outside. Perhaps they're just so hungry they can smell the food in the house and are trying to get to it.

Yes we've thought about rehoming them, need to get them vet checked first though. Plus they would need to be homed together, they're clearly very bonded.

We don't mind keeping them. I think with some TLC they will make quite friendly "pets". It just all rests on if they can all get along. I'm a little concerned that it might be a 2 against 1 scenario.

I guess the aim for first while is to have Ripley happy with them being around the outside of the house. If I can get them eating on either sides of the glass patio doors, then maybe we can consider face to face introductions.

kathleen37

I'd keep your Ripley in for a few weeks anyhow. Want to get her settled in before letting her outside...

loveisdivine

Ripleys been in the house with us since Friday. She's settling in really well. She's loving all the extra space and big windows to sit in.

We've kept her confined to the bathroom while we are out and at night but have let her out while we are home to keep an eye on her.

She's already had a through the window meeting with the other cats. We didn't want it to happen this soon but they are just always there! There's been some hissing, growling and a couple of swipes at the glass but she's also seemed happy to just sit and watch them and she has no problem eating near them or just going about her business even though they are around, which is all good

She's still using her trays for peeing which is good, no regression or anything.

She's pooped both nights she's been in the bathroom but unfortunately neither of them have been in a tray, it was the floor and window sill.

Should we be expecting it to happen straight away, or do we need to give it more time? I can keep putting her in at night as she doesn't seem to mind. Both nights she's been quiet as a mouse until 4 or 5.

Any more tips?

Rancid

Great!
It sounds like it's going well, better than you could have imagined.

I think you should continue putting her in the bathroom at night, it's not stressing her, she doesn't hate it, it's a small easy to clean place, and I really think eventually she'll use the tray if you persevere. And even if she doesn't, you're confining the issue to one small room.
It's a new start for her and I think that is making it easier for her.
You've broken her habit of jumping on the bed in the middle of the night and pooping on the duvet, isn't that amazing!!

Maybe it's really good that she can watch the other cats through the window, a gradual and gentle introduction to them, I would have expected all hell to break loose when she saw them at first!

loveisdivine

Rancid wrote: »

Great!
It sounds like it's going well, better than you could have imagined.

I think you should continue putting her in the bathroom at night, it's not stressing her, she doesn't hate it, it's a small easy to clean place, and I really think eventually she'll use the tray if you persevere. And even if she doesn't, you're confining the issue to one small room.
It's a new start for her and I think that is making it easier for her.
You've broken her habit of jumping on the bed in the middle of the night and pooping on the duvet, isn't that amazing!!

Maybe it's really good that she can watch the other cats through the window, a gradual and gentle introduction to them, I would have expected all hell to break loose when she saw them at first!

Yeah it's been pretty good so far. I've been letting her out about 5am and she's mostly just mooched about. This morning she crawled under the quilt for a snuggle!

It's funny cos the other 2 cats couldn't care less. One actually started rolling around and showing her it's belly!

All things considered it's going really well

kathleen37

Excellent news - that's really good!

One thought - have you tried two litter trays in the bathroom? Might be worth it for a couple of nights - just to see if it make a difference?

All sounds excellent so far - hope you're enjoying your new house!!

loveisdivine

I added another tray the second night but it's not made a difference so far. We will keep persevering though. She somehow escaped from the bathroom last night! The doors in the house are a bit crap but usually stay closed because they're a touch too big for the frames but she somehow managed to pull the door toward her and open it! I woke at about 11 to scratching sounds on the bedroom door, scared the life out of me! She'd already done a poop on the bathroom floor so I left her out.

I know it's early days but she definitely seems like a happier cat, she hasn't had any sessions of loud constant yelling, she's just seems more content.

I think the black cat, who we are calling Bunk, seems to like Ripley. He hangs around the patio doors practically all day, then sleeps in the garage. They've taken to just sitting and watching each other calmly through the doors.

The white one, who we're calling McNulty, seems less keen. Since he saw Ripley he seems to spend most of his time elsewhere, only returning for food. He also seems more stand offish with her.

Hopefully get them trapped in the morning and off to the vets.

Thanks for sticking with us everyone!

Rancid

loveisdivine wrote: »

....I know it's early days but she definitely seems like a happier cat, she hasn't had any sessions of loud constant yelling, she's just seems more content.....

Delighted for you and for Ripley!
It really seems like it's a new beginning for her. Stick with keeping her in the bathroom overnight, the fact that she's not objecting makes it easier for you, no guilty feelings AND you get a few hours of undisturbed sleep!
At the rate she's adapting, she'll eventually use the trays in the bathroom, might take weeks, but isn't it worth it? To be totally honest, there's no reason for the bathroom not to be her *bedroom* forever, seeing as she's not objecting.

Well done on persevering, and on getting the outdoor cats to the vet, it'll make life easier for everyone all around.

loveisdivine

Well she escaped the bathroom again! Luckily she ate her dinner and did her nightly poop before making her escape Now she knows she can get out, she seems less happy to be in there. We will just take each night as it comes and keep hoping for the best.

Got Bunk to the vets today, couldn't trap McNulty as he was a no show! he seems to only appear around 10am in the morning, so might try and get him next week while we are off work.

He's getting neutered and being checked for FIV etc as he has enlarged lymph nodes, but other than that is apparently in good health. Forgot to ask about his approximate age, so I'll check that later.

He should be coming back home with me tonight He mewed all the way to the vets, it was super cute. He also pee'd on the back seat, not super cute (intact male cat pee stinks!)

janmaree

Well done, your patience is paying off, at long last. No argument on the male cat smell, :eek: been there, coped with that! In fact still coping with cat accidents, mine are pretty good but sometimes they just seem to want somewhere more comfortable, like the carpet outside my bedroom door. Just bought 5L of urine neutralizer which was well reviewed with claims to be more effective than anything else. Haven't used it yet as I was dog-sitting and didn't want her assistance so can't say how effective I might think it is but if you find yourself in trouble, I will happily share, just say the word.

loveisdivine

Bunk is FIV Positive

kathleen37

loveisdivine wrote: »

Bunk is FIV Positive

Bummer. But you've done the best thing, which is getting his nads off so that should make him less aggressive. We have a mix of FIV positive and negative cats and have for years now with no issues.

The real issue is caused by any fighting. And obvs you have to look out for the FIV postive ones as my experience is that they will be absolutely fine for years, then they may have issues with teeth/gums etc.

It's recommended that FIV cats are kept indoors, to reduce the chances of them infecting other cats, but we didn't do this as all of our cats are pretty laid back, and all are kept in at night (mainly to keep them off the roads, but also to give the local wildlife a chance)

https://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-advice/fiv-cats

http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/cat-care-leaflets-2013/VG09_Feline_Immunodeficiency_Virus_(FIV)_and_Feline_Leukaemia_Virus_(FeLV).pdf

loveisdivine

I'm a bit confused because the vet said it can be passed through sharing bowls, grooming and sharing litter trays. But literally every website I've looked at, every FIV cat forum and the rescue have told me that's not really true. They say the chances of it being passed through casual contact are extremely slim and that it needs to be a deep penetrating bite.

My understanding is that whilst the virus is present in saliva, once out in the open it dies very quickly and to be passed on it needs to directly enter the other cats blood stream.

Why would the vets have such wrong information?

To be honest it seems like there's a lot of misinformation out there in the same way that there used to be for humans with HIV. The same way people used to think you could catch it just by kissing someone or something, only now we know that's not the case.

Obviously I don't want to put Ripley at great risk and if we did bring them in we would do it very slowly to make sure there's not aggression.

I just can't stand the thought of potentially having them PTS, if we can't find other homes for them, when in reality they could have stayed with us.

kathleen37

What about setting up a couple of nice off floor beds for the two incumbents in the shed? If you kept them shut in at night, you would avoid them wandering and possibly fighting with other cats, as well of course as helping out your local wildlife.

We have house cats and outside cats with no problems. They are in no way all chums, but the ones that aren't pals will just ignore the rest. We have no issues at all with any aggression. (and that is including the 3 ferals that we have but can't touch - or get in at night which is a bummer - but come for feeding twice a day and spend their time lounging around outside the house. All have been trapped and neutered)

My personal view is that it may be much more prevalent than generally thought. My understanding is that it's not standard to test for it so it could be that lots of cats have it, passed on via their mothers. I stopped testing for it years ago, as it will never feature in the decision of whether we'll rescue a cat or not.

loveisdivine

She's peed outside her box twice today

First time was up against the wall near the patio doors where the other cat sits so I thought it was maybe just a territorial thing. But a few minutes ago I found a small pool of pee under her cat tree in a different room.

If this starts up again I don't know what I'll do. Cleaning up the poo is bad enough, I can't go back to having pee everywhere too.

Great timing too, my parents are arriving tonight

Rancid

loveisdivine wrote: »

She's peed outside her box twice today

First time was up against the wall near the patio doors where the other cat sits so I thought it was maybe just a territorial thing. But a few minutes ago I found a small pool of pee under her cat tree in a different room.

If this starts up again I don't know what I'll do. Cleaning up the poo is bad enough, I can't go back to having pee everywhere too.

Great timing too, my parents are arriving tonight

Hi again. I'd say the wall pee was actually her spraying in response to the outdoor cats, especially as it was on the wall, not just on the floor. Perhaps one of the outdoor cats came too close or displayed some behaviour that she had to react to.
And I'm just going to hope that the floor pee at the cat tree was just a stress reaction to what happened at the doorway.
Odd that you say you're having visitors, could she have picked up on a change in your own behaviour, maybe a bit stressed preparing for their arrival...? She's such a sensitive cat that it wouldn't be impossible.

I hope this is just a hiccup, I think things were definitely improving since the move.
Fingers crossed you get through the next few days without any more incidents.

loveisdivine

Thanks Rancid. Thankfully she still seems to be using the trays for proper wee's. I think she may have done 1 other spray but I didn't see her do it and it could have been the other cat as he came in the door that day too.

I'd really like to try bringing Bunk inside and putting him in the spare room and trying to get them introduced that way. Bunk has really come around to us and loves cuddles now, he's happy to be picked up and it's clear he desperately wants to be inside.

There was a small incident on Saturday in the garden. I had Ripley in the garden with her harness on and Bunk was sat a little way from her. They were fine for about 10 minutes, then Bunk started approaching her and she managed to slip out of her harness (we obviously won't use it anymore), hiss at him and chase him off down the garden. There was no fighting though, he just ran off.

Am I being stupid trying to do this? I know there's a risk we could make her behaviours worse, but I really think it's worth a try.

If not, we need to find Bunk a home as it's not fair him being outside all the time when he so obviously wants to be in.

aonb

loveisdivine wrote: »

Thanks Rancid. Thankfully she still seems to be using the trays for proper wee's. I think she may have done 1 other spray but I didn't see her do it and it could have been the other cat as he came in the door that day too.

I'd really like to try bringing Bunk inside and putting him in the spare room and trying to get them introduced that way. Bunk has really come around to us and loves cuddles now, he's happy to be picked up and it's clear he desperately wants to be inside.

There was a small incident on Saturday in the garden. I had Ripley in the garden with her harness on and Bunk was sat a little way from her. They were fine for about 10 minutes, then Bunk started approaching her and she managed to slip out of her harness (we obviously won't use it anymore), hiss at him and chase him off down the garden. There was no fighting though, he just ran off.

Am I being stupid trying to do this? I know there's a risk we could make her behaviours worse, but I really think it's worth a try.

If not, we need to find Bunk a home as it's not fair him being outside all the time when he so obviously wants to be in.

Absolutely worth trying. Like anything new, it will take time and patience. Keep at it - if you expose her to Bunk for a little minute every day, you will get there... You might just sew or velcro an extra bit of fabric on her harness to prevent her slipping out of it. When we had our feral on a harness to let her outside before she was neutered, if there was something going on she would slip the harness, so I kept having to add little extra straps/bits!

Might be worth leaving something very yummy in a saucer for Bunk to eat, then take your girl out and give her a small amount of the same yummy treat, associate treats with each other will maybe help the bonding.

loveisdivine

Well we have been feeding them together at the patio doors for the last few days, opening the door a little more each time. Bunk seems absolutely fine with her, she is ok, she'll give the odd hiss in between eating her food, but nothing particularly aggressive. They sit at the door together quite a bit, sleeping or maybe just watching each other.

I guess we just have to give it a go and see. I'll make sure there's plenty of treats and distractions

Rancid

loveisdivine wrote: »

Well we have been feeding them together at the patio doors for the last few days, opening the door a little more each time. Bunk seems absolutely fine with her, she is ok, she'll give the odd hiss in between eating her food, but nothing particularly aggressive. They sit at the door together quite a bit, sleeping or maybe just watching each other.

I guess we just have to give it a go and see. I'll make sure there's plenty of treats and distractions

I think the really significant thing there is that they sit near each other maybe watching each other but probably sleeping. That implies tolerance on both sides and clearly no aggression. The odd hiss isn't a worry.
aonb's suggestions are great for the harness and for the yummy food when they're together, too.
Slowly but surely as you let them spend time together and reassess every day based on how they interact. It really seems like they're going to be ok.

aonb

loveisdivine wrote: »

Well we have been feeding them together at the patio doors for the last few days, opening the door a little more each time. Bunk seems absolutely fine with her, she is ok, she'll give the odd hiss in between eating her food, but nothing particularly aggressive. They sit at the door together quite a bit, sleeping or maybe just watching each other.

I guess we just have to give it a go and see. I'll make sure there's plenty of treats and distractions

sounds like your cat may have got herself a new brother!!
whats happening with the other cat?
Funny how they differ so - Bunk wanting to be indoors and being friendly - cats are just soooooooo wierd

loveisdivine

McNulty is with the North Dublin Cat Rescue at the moment, resting after his ear surgery. That ended up having to remove quite a lot of his ears as he had a lot of lesions at the base. So we didn't want to put him straight back outside. We have 2 people interested in rehoming him so far. I don't think we will have any problem there.

At lunch we decided to push things a little further. We fed them both together again but brought Bunks bowl into the kitchen so they were both sat in the kitchen about 2 foot away from each other.

Again the only negative response from Ripley was hissing and one small growl. For the most part she just ate her food and kept looking up at him. Unfortunately Bunk wolves his food down so he kept going over to her bowl while she was eating to steal hers, that's when she would hiss at him and he darted back.

Again I'm glad there was no real aggression. I'll do the same thing at dinner tonight. I'd like to see what happens when they both finish their food and they don't have that to distract them.

SillyMangoX

loveisdivine wrote: »

McNulty is with the North Dublin Cat Rescue at the moment, resting after his ear surgery. That ended up having to remove quite a lot of his ears as he had a lot of lesions at the base. So we didn't want to put him straight back outside. We have 2 people interested in rehoming him so far. I don't think we will have any problem there.

At lunch we decided to push things a little further. We fed them both together again but brought Bunks bowl into the kitchen so they were both sat in the kitchen about 2 foot away from each other.

Again the only negative response from Ripley was hissing and one small growl. For the most part she just ate her food and kept looking up at him. Unfortunately Bunk wolves his food down so he kept going over to her bowl while she was eating to steal hers, that's when she would hiss at him and he darted back.

Again I'm glad there was no real aggression. I'll do the same thing at dinner tonight. I'd like to see what happens when they both finish their food and they don't have that to distract them.

You could try a slow feeder bowl for bunk so it takes him a bit longer to finish, I have to do that for Peach to stop her bullying Cream out of his dinner!

loveisdivine

Here's a short vid of them eating together. Ripley was a little tense at the end, I tried to stroke her to reassure her but she wasn't keen. Perhaps it's too threatening to her having him that near when she's eating?

Edit - video works now!

https://vimeo.com/182605761

Rancid

loveisdivine wrote: »

Here's a short vid of them eating together. Ripley was a little tense at the end, I tried to stroke her to reassure her but she wasn't keen. Perhaps it's too threatening to her having him that near when she's eating?

Edit - video works now!

https://vimeo.com/182605761

Ripley seems ok there, focusing on the food until Bunk comes too close, then back to being focused on eating when he backs off. Totally normal cat behaviour!
It has to be a bit unsettling for her be sharing her space with another cat, but it's all new to her in the new house and it looks like she's adapting really well.
If things keep going as they are cat company might do her the world of good!

loveisdivine

We pushed it a little further again this morning. We basically just let Bunk in the house and left them to it. Majority of the time they either sat watching each other/ignoring each other, watched a moving toy we have, Ripley went off on her own for a bit to play and there was a small amount of hissing again, she batted at him with her paw a bit but it didn't seem too aggressive.

To be honest it's going better than I'd hoped.

We do have a small problem now though, we're not sure how to let Bunk have access to the outside, which he still currently wants, without letting Ripley get out too.