Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

Talisman

Knex. wrote: »

tl;dr
As things stand, I'm honestly not even remotely optimistic of us getting fourth.

Talk by fans of challenging for the top four or doing a 'Leicester 2015/16' and winning the league simply because we don't have any European football is immature.

This season we will be bedding in a new goalkeeper, a new defensive partnership and a new midfield. The core of the team is being rebuilt and it's not going to be an overnight success - based upon the experience of Houllier doing so, it will take at least half the season.

The existing squad know Klopp's methods but he is introducing them to a new pre-season regime, the likes of which none of them bar Lucas and Skrtel will possibly have experienced before. Rodgers did not physically condition the players in pre-season, the last manager to do so was Benitez.

Benitez said that the hard physical training in pre-season meant that players were physically tired at the start of the season so they started the season slowly. The players peaked physically later in the season and the physical pre-season training increased their stamina so they were still competing at the end of the season. Due to their increased stamina, the players found the second and subsequent pre-seasons easier and were less tired at the start of the season.

There is no reason to expect things to be different under Klopp, this pre-season is laying the foundations for what is to come.

Remember when Dortmund came to Anfield for a pre-season game in August 2014 and were blown away? At the time, everybody was falling over themselves praising the demolition job that Rodgers Liverpool side did. In his post match interview, Klopp was his straight talking self and said that due to the level of physical conditioning in pre-season Dortmund weren't ready to compete with Liverpool but it would be a different story if they were to meet in the Champions League later in the season.

UnawareCaesar

Talisman wrote: »

Knex. wrote: »

tl;dr
As things stand, I'm honestly not even remotely optimistic of us getting fourth.

Talk by fans of challenging for the top four or doing a 'Leicester 2015/16' and winning the league simply because we don't have any European football is immature.

This season we will be bedding in a new goalkeeper, a new defensive partnership and a new midfield. The core of the team is being rebuilt and it's not going to be an overnight success - based upon the experience of Houllier doing so, it will take at least half the season.

The existing squad know Klopp's methods but he is introducing them to a new pre-season regime, the likes of which none of them bar Lucas and Skrtel will possibly have experienced before. Rodgers did not physically condition the players in pre-season, the last manager to do so was Benitez.

Benitez said that the hard physical training in pre-season meant that players were physically tired at the start of the season so they started the season slowly. The players peaked physically later in the season and the physical pre-season training increased their stamina so they were still competing at the end of the season. Due to their increased stamina, the players found the second and subsequent pre-seasons easier and were less tired at the start of the season.

There is no reason to expect things to be different under Klopp, this pre-season is laying the foundations for what is to come.

Remember when Dortmund came to Anfield for a pre-season game in August 2014 and were blown away? At the time, everybody was falling over themselves praising the demolition job that Rodgers Liverpool side did. In his post match interview, Klopp was his straight talking self and said that due to the level of physical conditioning in pre-season Dortmund weren't ready to compete with Liverpool but it would be a different story if they were to meet in the Champions League later in the season.

We should really have this post held in reserve for the inevitable meltdown here when we lose a few pre season games.

Talisman

Guy Roux is claiming that Renato Sanches is not 18 but 23/24, his birth wasn't registered for 5 years because his parents had separated. AS (Google translate required) are also reporting that Sporting Lisbon had previously made the same claim about the player and Benfica threatened to sue them. It may not be the best €35M invested in potential by Bayern.

hefferboi

The mirror are reporting that we've joined the race with Arsenal to sign Lacazette, but only if we offload Benteke and Mario.

ERG89

If we can't even find an upgrade on Moreno it's a bit optimistic to imagine we'll fly up the table. Expected us to be buying more experienced starters but we seem to be looking for affordable young players.

Talisman

Talisman wrote: »

This season we will be bedding in a new goalkeeper, a new defensive partnership and a new midfield. The core of the team is being rebuilt and it's not going to be an overnight success - based upon the experience of Houllier doing so, it will take at least half the season.

New defensive partnership & new midfield?

I'd be surprised if Loren & Sakho didn't continue at CB, one of hendo & can will be in the midfield two, if not both.

Starting 11 changes will be minimal over last season IMO.

UnawareCaesar

UnawareCaesar wrote: »

We should really have this post held in reserve for the inevitable meltdown here when we lose a few pre season games.

Don't think anyone cares about per season results TBH.

Milkers

Augeo wrote: »

New defensive partnership & new midfield?

I'd be surprised if Loren & Sakho didn't continue at CB, one of hendo & can will be in the midfield two, if not both.

Starting 11 changes will be minimal over last season IMO.

Matip will almost certainly start at CB if fit.

54and56

ERG89 wrote: »

Expected us to be buying more experienced starters but we seem to be looking for affordable young players.

Why? What in Klopps past or FSG's ownership record led you to think we'd be buying proven experienced players in their prime i.e. 27 - 30?

garra

ERG89 wrote: »

If we can't even find an upgrade on Moreno it's a bit optimistic to imagine we'll fly up the table. Expected us to be buying more experienced starters but we seem to be looking for affordable young players.

It's not the Klopp way of doing things to recruit established players, he prefers to mould them from an earlier age, this approach has made him successful so am personally not surprised he is sticking to it. He would hardly be doing himself justice by changing his approach to suit those who love a "marquee" or 2 every summer.

Harry Palmr

hefferboi wrote: »

The mirror are reporting that we've joined the race with Arsenal to sign Lacazette, but only if we offload Benteke and Mario.

Hmmm how many forwards are needed? With Mane bringing goals from the flanks it feels like overkill to me.

The club have instituted a new policy for sell on and buy back clauses when younger players are moved on

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-fc-insert-more-buy-11570253

OwaynOTT

Talisman wrote: »

Talk by fans of challenging for the top four or doing a 'Leicester 2015/16' and winning the league simply because we don't have any European football is immature.

This season we will be bedding in a new goalkeeper, a new defensive partnership and a new midfield. The core of the team is being rebuilt and it's not going to be an overnight success - based upon the experience of Houllier doing so, it will take at least half the season.

The existing squad know Klopp's methods but he is introducing them to a new pre-season regime, the likes of which none of them bar Lucas and Skrtel will possibly have experienced before. Rodgers did not physically condition the players in pre-season, the last manager to do so was Benitez.

Benitez said that the hard physical training in pre-season meant that players were physically tired at the start of the season so they started the season slowly. The players peaked physically later in the season and the physical pre-season training increased their stamina so they were still competing at the end of the season. Due to their increased stamina, the players found the second and subsequent pre-seasons easier and were less tired at the start of the season.

There is no reason to expect things to be different under Klopp, this pre-season is laying the foundations for what is to come.

Remember when Dortmund came to Anfield for a pre-season game in August 2014 and were blown away? At the time, everybody was falling over themselves praising the demolition job that Rodgers Liverpool side did. In his post match interview, Klopp was his straight talking self and said that due to the level of physical conditioning in pre-season Dortmund weren't ready to compete with Liverpool but it would be a different story if they were to meet in the Champions League later in the season.

Fairly sure Rodgers' teams finished stronger than they started. Second half of most of his seasons were better than the first.

Apparently Crystal Palace have now offered £31.5m for Benteke. Its a sign of the transfer madness that going to be happening for the next 2 months. I thought if the club got about £15m for him they would be doing well.

MD1990

Wouldn't buy Lacazette. Have enough strikers/forwards . We need a CM & a LB. Its a weird season coming up with Chelsea & Liverpool not in Europe & Man Utd in the EL. All 3 will concentrate on the PL. I expect Spurs & Leicester to struggle to replicate last season.
But I think there will be a lot of dropped points again this season.

murpho999

MD1990 wrote: »

Wouldn't buy Lacazette. Have enough strikers/forwards . We need a CM & a LB. Its a weird season coming up with Chelsea & Liverpool not in Europe & Man Utd in the EL. All 3 will concentrate on the PL. I expect Spurs & Leicester to struggle to replicate last season.
But I think there will be a lot of dropped points again this season.

I don't agree with this "We have enough" point of view.

What about the quality of the player?

Are you saying that if someone better than Ings or Origi was available that we shouldn't go for it?

BullBlackNova

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't agree with this "We have enough" point of view.

What about the quality of the player?

Are you saying that if someone better than Ings or Origi was available that we shouldn't go for it?

I can see your point, but I think it is a matter of prioritising certain positions.

We have good strikers, we are weak in CM and LB. If we spend big in one position, it'll likely detract from the others - I'd rather see £40m spent on a LB and CM than £35m spent on a striker, for example.

But, great players don't come along too often. That said, I don't think Lacazette is a 'great player'. He wouldn't push us from 8th to 4th in one move I don't think.

murpho999

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I can see your point, but I think it is a matter of prioritising certain positions.

We have good strikers, we are weak in CM and LB. If we spend big in one position, it'll likely detract from the others - I'd rather see £40m spent on a LB and CM than £35m spent on a striker, for example.

But, great players don't come along too often. That said, I don't think Lacazette is a 'great player'. He wouldn't push us from 8th to 4th in one move I don't think.

I agree about Lacazette, he's not what we need but I still wouldn't rule out buying a top player if available.

At the time we bought Torres, we had Crouch up front, so we had enough strikers. I'm sure some would at the time would have thought that despite him being a clear upgrade.

I think with Benteke going that we should have the budget for a striker and CM and LB.

NukaCola

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Why? What in Klopps past or FSG's ownership record led you to think we'd be buying proven experienced players in their prime i.e. 27 - 30?

Well to be fair he said more experienced starters, he didn't say experienced players in their prime.

A more experienced starter than those linked would be 24/25+ with more than 1/2 years of regular football and we've bought a lot of players in that bracket over the years under FSG.

NukaCola

BullBlackNova wrote: »

He wouldn't push us from 8th to 4th in one move I don't think.

You'd be surprised how a striker who scores regularly and a very good GK can make up for a lot of inadequacies in a first 11.

BullBlackNova

murpho999 wrote: »

I agree about Lacazette, he's not what we need but I still wouldn't rule out buying a top player if available.

At the time we bought Torres, we had Crouch up front, so we had enough strikers. I'm sure some would at the time would have thought that despite him being a clear upgrade.

I think with Benteke going that we should have the budget for a striker and CM and LB.

Fair point. I reckon regardless of who comes in up top, Sturridge will be viewed as the starter when he's fit which poses an issue there.

Also, no doubt that we have the budget, but whether we can attract the talent remains to be seen.

MD1990

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't agree with this "We have enough" point of view.

What about the quality of the player?

Are you saying that if someone better than Ings or Origi was available that we shouldn't go for it?

Don't rate Lacazette that highly. I know his stats are good but I don't think he is top class so he is way overpriced. Someone definitely better than Ings or Origi is not going to be made available either.

I think Origi & Ings are very good options after Sturridge plus Firmino & Mane could play up front too. A top class CM is what we need. But even in that position its not easy to get. Some options I would consider

Andre Gomez - Would cost huge money & Mendes is his agent probably have no chance.

Kante - Rumoured release clause & CL teams are in for him

Kondogbia - Had a poor season at Inter but he is an excellent player. Inter have new owners so would cost about 30m.

Allan - Brillant for Napoli last season. Maybe let Napoli have Zielinski & target Allan who is a better player .

BullBlackNova

MD1990 wrote: »

Don't rate Lacazette that highly. I know his stats are good but I don't think he is top class so he is way overpriced. Someone definitely better than Ings or Origi is not going to be made available either.

I think Origi & Ings are very good options after Sturridge plus Firmino & Mane could play up front too. A top class CM is what we need. But even in that position its not easy to get. Some options I would consider

Andre Gomez - Would cost huge money & Mendes is his agent probably have no chance.

Kante - Rumoured release clause & CL teams are in for him

Kondogbia - Had a poor season at Inter but he is an excellent player. Inter have new owners so would cost about 30m.

Allan - Brillant for Napoli last season. Maybe let Napoli have Zielinski & target Allan who is a better player .

I hope we sign him just so we can have a midfield of Allan-Allen-Allan.

Talisman

Augeo wrote: »

New defensive partnership & new midfield?

I'd be surprised if Loren & Sakho didn't continue at CB, one of hendo & can will be in the midfield two, if not both.

Starting 11 changes will be minimal over last season IMO.

Matip wasn't signed to sit on the bench and we're still looking for another central midfield player - not likely to be a bench warmer if we only have 40-50 games this season.

At a minimum there will be four changes to the first eleven, there could be as many as six: Karius, Matip, Left back(?), Grujic/Central Midfielder, Mane, Forward(?)

ERG89

NukaCola wrote: »

Well to be fair he said more experienced starters, he didn't say experienced players in their prime.

A more experienced starter than those linked would be 24/25+ with more than 1/2 years of regular football and we've bought a lot of players in that bracket over the years under FSG.

Tbh I expected us to go out and sign a few starters on the back of 2 disappointing seasons not like we have an amazing side. Pretty glaring we need a left back which we were reminded of quite often under Klopp & spectacularly in Basle but still we haven't signed one. We could do with someone to start in the middle of midfield too. I assume Karius was signed to start if not I don't see the point of buying a back up for Mignolet when we have Ward

martyos121

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I hope we sign him just so we can have a midfield of Allan-Allen-Allan.

Could do with a namesake for Luis Alberto is we're holding on to him as well, just for balance.

Suarez will do.

Utopia Parkway

MD1990 wrote: »

Wouldn't buy Lacazette. Have enough strikers/forwards . We need a CM & a LB. Its a weird season coming up with Chelsea & Liverpool not in Europe & Man Utd in the EL. All 3 will concentrate on the PL. I expect Spurs & Leicester to struggle to replicate last season.
But I think there will be a lot of dropped points again this season.

You have to think Man U, Chelsea and Man City will improve this season under their new managers and hefty spending. You would hope we would improve after a full pre-season of preparation under Klopp. Plus we only have league games to concentrate on really. Not every club can improve on last season so somebody has to fall away a bit. You would think that Leicester are prime candidates. Maybe Spurs and/or Arsenal? Although Arsenal are well used to consistently getting top 4 and there is no reason why Spurs would fall away but somebody has to?

Talisman

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Fairly sure Rodgers' teams finished stronger than they started. Second half of most of his seasons were better than the first.

It could merely be coincidence but in the second half of those seasons there weren't many midweek European fixtures.

Getting dumped out of the European competitions helped because of the recovered "rest days". Having 7 days to prepare for each game was a clear advantage over our league opponents.

In 2014/15, we picked up 3 points more in the second half of the season than the first.

Knex*

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I hope we sign him just so we can have a midfield of Allan-Allen-Allan.

And one Steve.

What's Steven Defour up to these days?

hefferboi

MD1990 wrote: »

Don't rate Lacazette that highly. I know his stats are good but I don't think he is top class so he is way overpriced. Someone definitely better than Ings or Origi is not going to be made available either.

I think Origi & Ings are very good options after Sturridge plus Firmino & Mane could play up front too. A top class CM is what we need. But even in that position its not easy to get. Some options I would consider

Andre Gomez - Would cost huge money & Mendes is his agent probably have no chance.

Kante - Rumoured release clause & CL teams are in for him

Kondogbia - Had a poor season at Inter but he is an excellent player. Inter have new owners so would cost about 30m.

Allan - Brillant for Napoli last season. Maybe let Napoli have Zielinski & target Allan who is a better player .

Just curious, why don't you rate Lacazzete?

I think he could be a similar purchase to Suarez, where his stats are good but he's in a poor league. He could go on to be a top player and Klopp is the right man to get him there.

razorblunt

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I hope we sign him just so we can have a midfield of Allan-Allen-Allan.

They can all shout "DAN" repeatedly when they're free in space and Sturridge is ignoring them and blasting the ball high and wide.

martyos121

Knex. wrote: »

And one Steve.

What's Steven Defour up to these days?

As bad as he's gone, if we went in for him we'd come out with Steve Sidwell with our history.

hefferboi

On the Lovren captaincy rumour, I think giving him the captains armband will hamper him. He should be just let concentrate on playing. Sakho is more of a natural leader for me and he wouldn't get distracted by it like I think Henderson has. The only other natural leader is Can but its too soon for him, imo.

martyos121

hefferboi wrote: »

On the Lovren captaincy rumour, I think giving him the captains armband will hamper him. He should be just let concentrate on playing. Sakho is more of a natural leader for me and he wouldn't get distracted by it like I think Henderson has. The only other natural leader is Can but its too soon for him, imo.

Karius is said to be a very vocal keeper, constantly shouting at the defence and keeping them organised. Obviously too soon for him but if he takes the number 1 spot from Mig and keeps it, he looks a good bet to be a future captain.

TitianGerm

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

You have to think Man U, Chelsea and Man City will improve this season under their new managers and hefty spending. You would hope we would improve after a full pre-season of preparation under Klopp. Plus we only have league games to concentrate on really. Not every club can improve on last season so somebody has to fall away a bit. You would think that Leicester are prime candidates. Maybe Spurs and/or Arsenal? Although Arsenal are well used to consistently getting top 4 and there is no reason why Spurs would fall away but somebody has to?

Spurs have been very lucky the last two years with injuries.

If Kane picks up an injury they could drop out of the top 4.

MD1990

hefferboi wrote: »

Just curious, why don't you rate Lacazzete?

I think he could be a similar purchase to Suarez, where his stats are good but he's in a poor league. He could go on to be a top player and Klopp is the right man to get him there.

Good all round player but goes inactive in games when I saw him he barely moved. Also rarely scores against the top 4 teams in Ligue 1. Good player but his price tag is way too high probably why he hasn't moved.

hefferboi

MD1990 wrote: »

Good all round player but goes inactive in games when I saw him he barely moved. Also rarely scores against the top 4 teams in Ligue 1. Good player but his price tag is way too high probably why he hasn't moved.

As we've seen already this summer, 35 million isn't that much really. Selling Benteke would pay for him. I agree with you that a top CM is the priority but it seems we won't be getting one unfortunately.

I reckon Klopp thinks Can is / has the makings of a top CM or is as good as we could expect to get, he isn't finished improving yet

Harry Palmr

EFL Trophy sides for 2016/17

The competition will see 64 sides from League One and Two, plus the 16 Under 21 set ups, and the competition itself will now include a group stage format with 16 regional groups of four sides competing against each other.

Each side will play the other once, but the Under 21 side will have only one home game

The top two sides in each group will progress through to the knockout stages of the competition, which will continue to be North/South based, and the Final will be, as usual, at Wembley Stadium in April.

The 16 Category One Academy/Under 21 sides invited are from Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Leicester City, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Middlesbrough, Newcastle United, Southampton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Swansea City, Tottenham Hotspur, West Bromwich Albion and West Ham United.

- edit Echo running that Liverpool may not partake in this for reasons of scheduling and Anfield useage which seems damned stupid.

davyboy1975

Henderson to stoke is the latest rumour doing the rounds. 14 million apparently

hefferboi

Augeo wrote: »

I reckon Klopp thinks Can is / has the makings of a top CM or is as good as we could expect to get, he isn't finished improving yet

I think the same. I think he'll be world class. But who do you put beside him? Henderson and Milner are a no from me. Allen won't control a game, Grujic is young and an unknown entity. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Klopp plays Lovren and Sakho together and Matip as a cdm. That's how I'd go at the minute.

Sappy404

Ojo will mist most/all of preseason as he's off with the England U19s. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-youngster-sheyi-ojo-england-11576845

xabi

razorblunt wrote: »

They can all shout "DAN" repeatedly when they're free in space and Sturridge is ignoring them and blasting the ball high and wide.

Harry Palmr

davyboy1975 wrote: »

Henderson to stoke is the latest rumour doing the rounds. 14 million apparently

He visited a restaurant in the city with his agent and now it's a transfer rumour!

BullBlackNova

davyboy1975 wrote: »

Henderson to stoke is the latest rumour doing the rounds. 14 million apparently

Given the prices other players are moving for this summer, I'd be quite annoyed if 14m was all we could get for our captain and regular England international.

citytillidie

Harry Palmr wrote: »

EFL Trophy sides for 2016/17

The competition will see 64 sides from League One and Two, plus the 16 Under 21 set ups, and the competition itself will now include a group stage format with 16 regional groups of four sides competing against each other.

Each side will play the other once, but the Under 21 side will have only one home game

The top two sides in each group will progress through to the knockout stages of the competition, which will continue to be North/South based, and the Final will be, as usual, at Wembley Stadium in April.

The 16 Category One Academy/Under 21 sides invited are from Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Leicester City, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Middlesbrough, Newcastle United, Southampton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Swansea City, Tottenham Hotspur, West Bromwich Albion and West Ham United.

- edit Echo running that Liverpool may not partake in this for reasons of scheduling and Anfield useage which seems damned stupid.

Still need time through out the 1st half the season to finish off the new stand.

Seats will be open to the public in September but the stand will not be fully ready until Jan

smileyj1987

BullBlackNova wrote: »

davyboy1975 wrote: »

Henderson to stoke is the latest rumour doing the rounds. 14 million apparently

Given the prices other players are moving for this summer, I'd be quite annoyed if 14m was all we could get for our captain and regular England international.

30 million and not a penny less ! If benteke is getting sold for that then Henderson is at least worth that.
With Joe Allen they should give him a new deal and then sell him if they , give him a payrise and sell for 25 million

rob316

Its BS that Henderson Stoke rumour but if he was for sale, I don't care if he has one heel, not a penny under £30m.

Vicxas

Seemingly we have turned down the EFL over the Anfield concerns.

ricero

Moussa sissoko linked again. Also saying dortmund are interested in him

hefferboi

hefferboi wrote: »

I think the same. I think he'll be world class. But who do you put beside him? Henderson and Milner are a no from me. Allen won't control a game, Grujic is young and an unknown entity. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Klopp plays Lovren and Sakho together and Matip as a cdm. That's how I'd go at the minute.

I can't see Klopp not persisting with the Lovren and Sakho partnership given that they were playing well consistently together after Christmas.

Matip will feature at CB though, no doubt, Lovren or Sakho will pick up a knock or two or whatever over the season.

Matip and Can might well work. I can't see Henderson not playing if he's fit though and he looked to be getting back to 100% in the England.