Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

duffman13

martyos121 wrote: »

Don't see Götze getting in the Spurs team ahead of Eriksen tbh, all that signing is going to do is stunt Alli's growth as a footballer I reckon.

Honestly couldnt see him getting in ahead of Firmino or Coutinho at Liverpool either, not a signing Liverpool or Spurs need in my opinion. Think his best option is to go back to Dortmund, hes a very good player but dont see him vastly improving Liverpool or Spurs

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

It's also a pretty dodgy/disingenuous metric to base a kid on. He's on a completely different level now than he was for about half or more of his appearances.

Over the course of a full career, it's maybe a fair enough appraoch, but trying to average out a rapidly developing footballers ability is just silly. Obviously he should be judged on where he is now, at this stage of his development.

5 goals in 7 starts is a much better measurement, ignore all other games.

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

5 goals in 7 starts is a much better measurement, ignore all other games.

Lets take the last 2 seasons

At Lille 14/15

Europa League 5 starts all as CF 1 goal
Ligue 1 22 starts 11 sub appearances 26 played as a CF with 8 goals and 4 assists

All in all with the French cups etc he had 2954 minutes 9 goals and 4 assists.

At LFC 15/16

Europa League 6 starts 6 Sub appearances all as CF 2 goals and 2 assists
EPL 7 starts 9 sub appearances 26 played as a CF with 5 goals and 1 assists

All in all with the cups etc he had 1688 minutes 10 goals and 3 assists.

Average over the last 2 seasons it works out roughly as 1 goal every 258 minutes or roughly a goal every 3 games with an assist every 663 minutes or every 7/8 games. For a player that is developing and is in and out of the first team thats pretty decent over 2 years in 2 different leagues.

Talisman

Augeo wrote: »

Career total in league football.... 100 apps 21 goals ......... including cups 133 apps 28 goals

Those appearance numbers mean absolutely nothing. The 100 league appearances don't equate to 9,000+ minutes on the pitch, nor do they take into account the position the player was playing or other factors.

According to TransferMarkt.com, Origi has to date played 6,499 minutes including cup games. That's equivalent to 72~73 full games which is less than two league campaigns.

MD1990

Sakho statement




give this man the captain's armband

Talisman

rob316 wrote: »

Reports gotze is leaving bayern and he is in talks with spurs. Honestly I don't think I'll be too bothered if we miss out.

I guess that means they won't do us the favor of buying Lallana.

prettyboy81

Sakho for Captain!

Harry Palmr

If this summer is "True Gotze" then he's no loss and as Mane joins Lallana, Fimino, Coutinho, Markovic and Ojo in behind the forward you'd have to question the point anyway.

LiamoSail

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm thinking of putting a grand on us to win the league.

I'd convinced myself that if we lost the Europa League final that we would have a cracking chance playing once a week under Klopp.

I'm kinda surprised and also disappointed to see we are only 9/1 and I don't feel it's good value at all but I'd still like to put my money where my mouth is.

I just can't get Klopp's determination, desire and belief in togetherness out of my head. I think it's half the battle to winning a title. Gloves off from game one. Kill and die for each other. That's the mentality that wins titles.

Any thoughts ?

I can entirely understand why Liverpool are 9/1 when people are backing them using your logic.

Liverpool's odds are always shorter than what a rational person would expect on the basis that Liverpool fans tend not to act rationally when backing Liverpool. The phrase "Our year" being associated with Liverpool fans has a valid origin in this optimism.

Personally I'd be delighted with top 4. United, spending the equivelint of an average country's GDP means they'll have to challange, City too are likely to challange while Chelsea are going to be a solid, well organised unit under Conte. Add Arsenal and Spurs to the equation, and that's five sides that are better on paper. Last season proved that anything is possible, however I think to really believe Liverpool have a chance this season, you'd need to be optimistic to the point of delusional

mormank

SlickRic wrote: »

More stability is only good, no?

I don't understand the argument that this is a bad move by Liverpool. Contracts are meaningless anyway. If the worst happens and Klopp does so well that he gets an offer elsewhere that he can't refuse, then we're further protected financially.

New contracts are merely a PR exercise.

I would be shocked if Klopp hadn't already refused one of those clubs that you say would be irresistable to him.

mormank

Knex. wrote: »

Hadn't realised Burr was coming to Dublin at the end of the month. Don't know how I missed on that! Didn't think it was too long ago that I checked his tour dates.

Rodgers best bit of business this summer would be getting me tickets for that, I'd say.

I'm sure I mentioned it on this thread. He is 'playing' Belfast, Dublin and Galway. I'm going to Galway, can't wait. Also going to see Louis Ck in Dublin on aug 15! Gonna be a great couple of weeks. :P

Talisman

Talisman wrote: »

Those appearance numbers mean absolutely nothing. The 100 league appearances don't equate to 9,000+ minutes on the pitch, nor do they take into account the position the player was playing or other factors.

According to TransferMarkt.com, Origi has to date played 6,499 minutes including cup games. That's equivalent to 72~73 full games which is less than two league campaigns.

The stat is goals per appearances. It might mean nothing to you but the stat is far from meaningless.

As mentioned, goals per starts is in my opinion less meaningful.

martyos121

While we're talking Burr, I gotta leave this here for anyone that hasn't seen it.

Some very NSFW language, goes without saying really.

The chap on twitter blabbing on about Sakho, who is he.... journo or ex player?

gafferino

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If this summer is "True Gotze" then he's no loss and as Mane joins Lallana, Fimino, Coutinho, Markovic and Ojo in behind the forward you'd have to question the point anyway.

The point would be that of those you have mentioned only Firminho, Coutinho and potentially Mane are good enough.

Lallana is simply not good enough for a top 4 club if that's what we aspire to be.
Markovic is up against it big time. Not writing him off but he's had 1 season with us and a season in Turkey and questions are still being asked.
Ojo is not ready.

Gotze would be a great signing. He set the football world on fire under Klopp. Scored the winning goal in a World Cup final and oozes talent. He's young and already won a tonne of trophies. Yes he's in a prolonged dip but if anyone can get him out of it it would be Klopp.

Don't pretend to yourselves you wouldn't be delighted if he signed for us. We all would - it would be a proper marquee signing.

Would he strengthen Spurs - a team who have finished ahead of us for years now? Yes.

Talisman

Augeo wrote: »

The stat is goals per appearances. It might mean nothing to you but the stat is far from meaningless.

I certainly agree especially in a case where your intent is to cast doubt on the ability of the player.

Talisman

Augeo wrote: »

The chap on twitter blabbing on about Sakho, who is he.... journo or ex player?

Barney Ronay is senior sports writer for the Guardian.

..... Mane coming in is essentially total confirmation that Gotze isn't.

He'd be quite likely a great signing, there's little doubt but all considered I'm happy to have firmino & coutinho with the others fighting it out for Mane' s spot.

There's still improvement in both of our AM Brazilians for Klopp to help them with.

5starpool

Liverpool should be priced at something like 33/1 for the league. That is the realistic odds I reckon.

Talisman

Talisman wrote: »

I certainly agree especially in a case where your intent is to cast doubt on the ability of the player.

I think origi is a great bit of stuff, I was just disagreeing with the 5 goals in 7/8 PL starts being a useful barometer of ability. That hit rate is better than Shearer's, Coles, Fowler's ..... Henry's etc

Totally laughable IMO over a tiny sample size.

Talisman

Talisman wrote: »

I guess that means they won't do us the favor of buying Lallana.

Do you think Klopp would sell him, I don't.

J Mysterio

I'm quite sure Klopp likes Lallana.

smileyj1987

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If this summer is "True Gotze" then he's no loss and as Mane joins Lallana, Fimino, Coutinho, Markovic and Ojo in behind the forward you'd have to question the point anyway.

I love gotze as a player but think he would be a waste to sign , the left back spot and cm spot need some attention now.
Plus I do like that mane will add a new dimension to the team because he is such a fast player and you could see the team needs someone in the front 4 with speed especially for counter attacks.

Kerrigooney

Didn't see the game last night...don't bother with friendlies any more.

What happened to Ings' eye? Saw some pictures and he's got an ugly looking cut under it.

Umaro

Our title odds going into that 13/14 season were around 33/1. I think thats about right for a team in our position with no European football.

Given last season's winners, anything is possible. I'd say plenty of money has been wagered on Liverpool and thats why the odds have come down.

Talisman

Augeo wrote: »

Do you think Klopp would sell him, I don't.

They are next door neighbours and selling him would be an emotional issue for Klopp but if Lallana doesn't deliver he will be out of the team and inevitably sold.

smileyj1987

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Didn't see the game last night...don't bother with friendlies any more.

What happened to Ings' eye? Saw some pictures and he's got an ugly looking cut under it.

One of the Tranmere players raised his hand and it looked like he poked him I'm the face

J Mysterio

Talisman

Augeo wrote: »

I think origi is a great bit of stuff, I was just disagreeing with the 5 goals in 7/8 PL starts being a useful barometer of ability. That hit rate is better than Shearer's, Coles, Fowler's ..... Henry's etc

Totally laughable IMO over a tiny sample size.

It didn't come across as just disagreeing.

You could have gone for the appearances from last season alone but instead you went for the all encompassing career stats: 100 apps and 21 goals or 133 apps and 28 goals. They include cameo substitute and winger appearances which in no way reflect the player's ability as a centre forward.

According to the stats on Transfermarkt, Origi has scored 19 goals in 59 appearances as a centre forward, which is a world away from the stats which you presented.

corwill

Talisman wrote: »

It didn't come across as just disagreeing.

You could have gone for the appearances from last season alone but instead you went for the all encompassing career stats: 100 apps and 21 goals or 133 apps and 28 goals. They include cameo substitute and winger appearances which in no way reflect the player's ability as a centre forward.

According to the stats on Transfermarkt, Origi has scored 19 goals in 59 appearances as a centre forward, which is a world away from the stats which you presented.

mormank

Augeo wrote: »

Career total in league football.... 100 apps 21 goals ......... including cups 133 apps 28 goals

He just turned 21 in April. Using his stats from before the age of 21 to predict what his productivity will be post the age of 21 is very misguided.

kfallon

Is Joe Gomez back in training?

fyfe79

J Mysterio wrote: »

Good stuff - Mingolet is now on LFCTv cameraman duties instead this season, see 0:00 to 0:05

corwill

kfallon wrote: »

Is Joe Gomez back in training?

Two weeks ago the Echo had him preparing to return to training, not seen anything since.

Kerrigooney

The club are being tight fisted weasels again. This is beyond ridiculous.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fans-dismayed-club-sells-11592044

mormank

mormank wrote: »

He just turned 21 in April. Using his stats from before the age of 21 to predict what his productivity will be post the age of 21 is very misguided.

Where did I predict what his productivity will be?

Is using 5 goals in 7 PL starts misguided to predict his productivity btw?

Just to clarify for those with seemingly limited interpretation/comprehension .....

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If Benteke is sold surely we need to sign a big name striker? We can't start a season relying on Sturridge.
Origi and INgs are a goal every 4 games type players. We need a new striker,one that is first name on team sheet.

^^^ that's opinion

bennyineire wrote: »

Origi started 7 EPL games last season and scored 5 goals, something wrong with your maths lad.

^^^^ That's a tiny sample size

Augeo wrote: »

Career total in league football.... 100 apps 21 goals ......... including cups 133 apps 28 goals

^^^^ That's fact, no prediction of future productivity suggested or implied.

Damien360

Kerrigooney wrote: »

The club are being tight fisted weasels again. This is beyond ridiculous.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fans-dismayed-club-sells-11592044

I can't see the problem with that price. Ultimately they would be dumped but a nostalgia value was added and the club saw an oppurtunity. If they chucked them out the Internet would throw a fit that people would have paid 200 a pop for history.

If we want to win the league then we need to maximise other revenue streams as the Internet complained about paying extra to see games for next year and that was overturned.

5starpool

Damien360 wrote: »

I can't see the problem with that price. Ultimately they would be dumped but a nostalgia value was added and the club saw an oppurtunity. If they chucked them out the Internet would throw a fit that people would have paid 200 a pop for history.

If we want to win the league then we need to maximise other revenue streams as the Internet complained about paying extra to see games for next year and that was overturned.

It's pathetic. Offer them for a nominal fee or nothing, or else throw them out. This could never be anything other than another PR own goal.

If season ticket holders don't want them then sell them at this price if they want. More terrible judgement.

Kerrigooney

Damien360 wrote: »

I can't see the problem with that price. Ultimately they would be dumped but a nostalgia value was added and the club saw an oppurtunity. If they chucked them out the Internet would throw a fit that people would have paid 200 a pop for history.

If we want to win the league then we need to maximise other revenue streams as the Internet complained about paying extra to see games for next year and that was overturned.

They should have just given them to the people that sat in them for the last few years. Nice bit of PR for them but instead they decide to screw the fans yet again. I have a feeling this will backfire on them and I hope it does. They really are hopeless when it comes to PR.

How much extra money are they getting from the tv deal next year and they decide to go with this money grabbing,small time mentality rubbish?

Damien360

5starpool wrote: »

It's pathetic. Offer them for a nominal fee or nothing, or else throw them out. This could never be anything other than another PR own goal.

If season ticket holders don't want them then sell them at this price if they want. More terrible judgement.

If they did that, I could lay a bet that the seats will turn up on eBay after 5 years at a far higher premium and one person will hold huge numbers of them for sale.

We cannot whinge about lack of premium player purchases and then complain about maximising revenue. Maximising revenue was applauded here when FSG really got their teeth dug in at early stages of purchasing the club. This is just good business, even if in real terms it is Mickey Mouse money.

LFC Keyboard warriors will keep us at mid table if we don't compete financially.

Kerrigooney

Damien360 wrote: »

If they did that, I could lay a bet that the seats will turn up on eBay after 5 years at a far higher premium and one person will hold huge numbers of them for sale.

We cannot whinge about lack of premium player purchases and then complain about maximising revenue. Maximising revenue was applauded here when FSG really got their teeth dug in at early stages of purchasing the club. This is just good business, even if in real terms it is Mickey Mouse money.

LFC Keyboard warriors will keep us at mid table if we don't compete financially.

If we're relying on the money they're going to make from this to keep us "competing financially" then we have way bigger problems than I thought.

Kerrigooney

I've just seen Tony Evan's tweets on this and find myself agreeing with him and now I think I need a lie down.

J Mysterio

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I've just seen Tony Evan's tweets on this and find myself agreeing with him and now I think I need a lie down.

Would you not post the tweet if you comment on it? I'm not on twitter and I imagine many others are not.

5starpool

Damien360 wrote: »

If they did that, I could lay a bet that the seats will turn up on eBay after 5 years at a far higher premium and one person will hold huge numbers of them for sale.

We cannot whinge about lack of premium player purchases and then complain about maximising revenue. Maximising revenue was applauded here when FSG really got their teeth dug in at early stages of purchasing the club. This is just good business, even if in real terms it is Mickey Mouse money.

LFC Keyboard warriors will keep us at mid table if we don't compete financially.

Ya, the million quid they might make from this will make all the difference. You sound like someone who doesn't care who gets gouged as long as it isn't you.

Great attitude.

Kerrigooney

J Mysterio wrote: »

Would you not post the tweet if you comment on it? I'm not on twitter and I imagine many others are not.

Sorry.

https://twitter.com/TonyEvans92a/status/751800437452472321

https://twitter.com/TonyEvans92a/status/751804758453805056

https://twitter.com/TonyEvans92a/status/751807009612296193

I usually can't stand Evans but I agree with him here.

corwill

This cried out for a charity fundraiser type effort. They're still so ****ing thick on the business side of the house at times. Some dozy c*nt 18 months out of his 3h BComm with an excel spreadsheet thinking "this will look CLASS for my interim PR next month!"

NukaCola

Personally wouldn't pay any amount for a seat that used to be in Anfield.......then again I'm not big on sport memorabilia, is £200 something like twice the price or ten times what people normally pay for these types of things? If its 2/3/4 times the price is it really that big of a deal?

Maybe if a local charity was involved it would be better I suppose.....

mayordenis

Kerrigooney wrote: »

If we're relying on the money they're going to make from this to keep us "competing financially" then we have way bigger problems than I thought.

Well there's two ends of a spectrum and then there's everything in between. Are the club relying on this solely to finance the club? No.
Is this an attempt to make some extra money for extra merchandise that nobody is being forced to buy? Yes.

J Mysterio

mayordenis wrote: »

Well there's two ends of a spectrum and then there's everything in between. Are the club relying on this solely to finance the club? No.
Is this an attempt to make some extra money for extra merchandise that nobody is being forced to buy? Yes.

It's cheap, exploitative and not befitting Liverpool.

Agent Coulson

To be honest when I saw they were being sold for £200 I said fair play to the club that's a nice way to earn some money for local charities.


If it's not a fundraising effort someone at FSG deserves a sacking.