Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

bur

Great goal return in a first season for the worst Newcastle side this generation.

rob316

ricero wrote: »

Have to say i think we have (at least on paper) one of if not the best
attack force in the league now

Definitely so much strength in depth its very pleasing to see. We are so close to having a proper title challenging squad, just need a starting LB, cover for RB and a proper controlling CM.

Sappy404

rob316 wrote: »

Definitely so much strength in depth its very pleasing to see. We are so close to having a proper title challenging squad, just need a starting LB, cover for RB and a proper controlling CM.

So exactly what we knew we needed in May, then.

rob316

Sappy404 wrote: »

So exactly what we knew we needed in May, then.

Yep but our 2 targets weren't possible Zielinski and Dahoud.

Maybe Grujic can be that player, I don't know.

BullBlackNova

Where will Wijnaldum play? A lot of people hailing his versatility but for me, he's definitely behind Mane, Coutinho and Firmino so thats the attacking 3 out of the equation. Milner and Lallana play important roles in Klopp's style too so i would expect them to get some decent game time.

And as for CM, Whoscored.com have Wijnaldum down as a CM/DM for just 3 games last year, in which he delivered no goals and one assist. Most of his games were as an AMC (where Coutinho will surely play?), and 6 of his goals came from left-wing, including four in one game.

Is Klopp envisioning a 4-1-4-1 like we saw in a few games last season with Mane and Wijnaldum out wide, Firmino and Coutinho playing off the striker? Or will Firmino be a striker? In this one, we can only fit one CM/DM so... Can? Henderson?

I know formations are a little archaic in determining how a team plays because it is all quite fluid, etc, but I'm just struggling to get my head around how we get all these players on the pitch together at the same time.

Pepp1989

Maybe the club are wising up and getting players in before they sell. We do seem top heavy but who knows how it will look come 31st Aug.

We badly need full back cover thou and a new left back.

GBX

I have faith in Klopp. He is moving players not needed, buying his targets. He is obviously aware we need cover in LB. That addition will come.

BullBlackNova

Pepp1989 wrote: »

Maybe the club are wising up and getting players in before they sell. We do seem top heavy but who knows how it will look come 31st Aug.

We badly need full back cover thou and a new left back.

Maybe, it would make sense instead of chasing our tails afterwards.
It would be great to get through a summer without losing a starter for once, though, so hopefully nobody major goes.
There have been quite a few rumours about Flanagan leaving to Burnley in the last 12/24 hours too so if he goes, we're very short at full back.

Dickerty

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Pepp1989 wrote: »

Paul Joyce just tweeted that we have agreed a fee of 25m plus add ons for Wijnaldum. Medical now and will join the US tour.

Is Joyce reliable? I'm not familiar with him.

Yes, Joyce is probably up there with Ben Smith, Tony Barrett, Chris Bascombe, just behind the Echo lads..
So looks like Flanagan is going out on loan, Allen is off, Wijnaldum is on and possible another FB - Amavi (Villa LB) being touted, was highly rated in France before coming to Villa and missed most of the season with an ACL.
Still think we'll see exits for Benteke (we'll accept 27M for him) Marko (maybe to Schalke if Sane moves out), Wisdom, Alberto and Balo. I think we'll keep Lucas as he'd only command a small fee and very little continuity in the squad after Skrtel and Allen leaving, and keeps our Brazilian clique happy!
So squad would be:
GK: Karius, Migs
RB: Clyne, Gomez, Randall
LB: Moreno, Amavi, Smith
CB: Lovren, Sakho, Matip, Klavan
CM: Can, Lucas, Hendo, Milner, Grujic, Stewert, Brannagan
LM: Coutinho, Lallana, Kent
RM: Milner, Mane, Ojo
CF: Sturridge, Origi, Ings, Firmino
That's a BLOODY good squad, and deep for the most part. Would be some very good players not getting a lot of games with no Europe. I suspect we might see the likes of Bran, Kent, Ojo, Randall and Smith all out on loan at certain points.

J Mysterio

Getting excited!

Agent Coulson

Klopp is bringing in players with pace power and have goals in them in attack and the two defenders he has brought in seem to be warriors I am very happy with that so far.

Dickerty

rob316 wrote: »

Yep but our 2 targets weren't possible Zielinski and Dahoud.

Maybe Grujic can be that player, I don't know.

Can should be that controlling CM, he just needs games in that role to build up the ability. Will be interesting to see who starts at CM with him, whether in a 2 or a 3. Hendo, Can and Milner is the safe option in a 3 - plenty of energy, ability to cover the wings behind an attacking 3.

Can and Grujic is the future pairing...

Sappy404

rob316 wrote: »

Yep but our 2 targets weren't possible Zielinski and Dahoud.

Maybe Grujic can be that player, I don't know.

Wijnaldum is an upgrade on Allen, and it's fair to say he's a replacement for him in the squad; certainly it's no coincidence that the Allen news came out at the same time as news of a breakthrough in the Wijnaldum deal. But it's clear we're after Dahoud and Zielinski for that last CM position, likely to replace Lucas.

But it beggars belief that we haven't been looking for an upgrade at LB. Every time I see Moreno run by Klopp he seems to get an earful. All we've heard about a LB signing though is Chilwell and now Jordan Amavi at Villa. And I've heard more about Flanagan leaving than I have about another RB being signed. We're well into pre-season now. Klopp can't be happy that we're jetting off for the states without the full squad.

Dickerty

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Maybe, it would make sense instead of chasing our tails afterwards.
It would be great to get through a summer without losing a starter for once, though, so hopefully nobody major goes.
There have been quite a few rumours about Flanagan leaving to Burnley in the last 12/24 hours too so if he goes, we're very short at full back.

If we sign a LB (as is being suggested we are after), that is cover for Moreno, with Smith as 3rd choice, and Clyne has Gomez as cpover, with Randell beyond that. That's plenty when we only have c. 50 games this season, max!

NukaCola

I haven't seen Moreno improve under Klopp at all.......not sure how a preseason will remedy that.....

slingerz

Dickerty wrote: »

If we sign a LB (as is being suggested we are after), that is cover for Moreno, with Smith as 3rd choice, and Clyne has Gomez as cpover, with Randell beyond that. That's plenty when we only have c. 50 games this season, max!

I reckon Amavi would push Moreno to be honest. Chilwell would probably be backup to Moreno alright.

I am just not inspired by our CM options. Will be interesting to see what formation we go with really.

Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Lallana, Wjnaldum are all the same type of player in my eyes. If there was European football i'd say fair enough but to be quite honest i see one of Coutinho/Lallana going and if i had to bet i would reckon it would be Coutinho.

Benteke is surely off from the list of strikers and with Orirgi, Sturridge & Ings they should be ok especially given Sturridges injury record.

kfallon

NukaCola wrote: »

I haven't seen Moreno improve.

You can leave it at that!

Dickerty

slingerz wrote: »

Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Lallana, Wjnaldum are all the same type of player in my eyes. If there was European football i'd say fair enough but to be quite honest i see one of Coutinho/Lallana going and if i had to bet i would reckon it would be Coutinho.

They can play in similar positions, but not that similar.

Mane is a pace-merchant and a finisher.
Coutinho is a playmaker, collects deep and runs towards the defence.
Firmino plays much higher up, closer to the box and relies on trickery and good feet.
Lallana things he's a playmaker, but he's really just a hard working player with a little ability.
Wijnaldum looks like he would be an attacking CM, getting into the box, like Henderson 5 yards forward (and with more pace).

SuperTortoise

What happened with the benteke to palace deal. I thought a fee had been agreed but havent heard anything for a week now?

Kimbot

SuperTortoise wrote: »

What happened with the benteke to palace deal. I thought a fee had been agreed but havent heard anything for a week now?

We wanted 32.5 mill back apparenty and palace have pulled out.

Knex*

Full backs and CM are my main concerns at the moment.

However, it seems we're doing the ol bypass the midfield issue by bringing in more attackers, and to be honest, that's fine with me. Its been proven to work in the PL time and time again, providing your back four is also solid and your midfielders will put in a shift.

Very interested in seeing what way the team is shaping up by Christmas, and if Klopp has a settled formation/line up etc, or is regularly switching between a few different options.

Anyone know what way Gomez's injury is? If he's out for a while, I'm definitely concerned about our depth at full back.

slingerz

Dickerty wrote: »

They can play in similar positions, but not that similar.

Mane is a pace-merchant and a finisher.
Coutinho is a playmaker, collects deep and runs towards the defence.
Firmino plays much higher up, closer to the box and relies on trickery and good feet.
Lallana things he's a playmaker, but he's really just a hard working player with a little ability.
Wijnaldum looks like he would be an attacking CM, getting into the box, like Henderson 5 yards forward (and with more pace).

Different styles but all playing in the same positions really.

Harry Palmr

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Ok I believe he exists now


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Woodburn

I did not write this, honest!

He is predicted to have a great future.

30m Mane
25m Wijaldum
5m Grujic
4.5m Karius
4.2 Norse God
free Matip

68.7m or approximately two-thirds of Paul Pogba.

Chilwell for 8-10m (yes I think it'll happen as he can be signed for free next summer, or pre-contract in January) and maybe a cheap DM option like Gary Medel

To be honest I'd be happy with that - each fills a role. I'd argue each offers an upgrade on comparable players from last season with the possible exception of Kolo and that's only because I don't know enough about Ragnar

Just a cheeky thought - Mario Gomez wants to get out of Turkey (understandably), could be a handy plan B

martyos121

Mario Gomez doesn't suit us at all though Harry, I'd rather keep Benteke than buy him. A poacher isn't what we need up front, Origi is all we need.

Knex*

Gomez in and Benteke to Palace for 30m, I'd be pretty delighted with that, tbh.

Something different to Origi, Ings and Sturridge, a lethal finisher, and has played the lone man up top role for years. It would be nice to have the experience in the squad as well.

However, I can't see him joining a team where he won't be first choice, and he should get his share of offers from Germany, Italy, and Spain, I would imagine.

kfallon

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Just a cheeky thought - Mario Gomez wants to get out of Turkey (understandably), could be a handy plan B

Yip that Plan B will work an absolute treat as we've seen with Rickie Lambert and Benteke......

mosstin

Two other players linked with us; Gotze confirmed back to Dortmund and Sissoko linked with a move to either Juventus or Everton. For £35 million - absolutely ridiculous figure but that seems to be the way it's going.

noodler

kfallon wrote: »

Yip that Plan B will work an absolute treat as we've seen with Rickie Lambert and Benteke......

Aye.

I see no reason to believe why Gomez would fit the system when Benteke wouldn't.

Harry Palmr

Well i was joking....that said he's been crap for years and yet keeps scoring goals...

Aston Villas hot young left back Jordan Amavi has been linked again in La Parisian http://sportwitness.co.uk/liverpool-keen-aston-villa-star-good-signing/

kfallon

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Aston Villas hot young left back Jordan Amavi has been linked again in La Parisian http://sportwitness.co.uk/liverpool-keen-aston-villa-star-good-signing/

I'm not bothered about his looks Harry, is he any good as a footballer??? :P

J Mysterio

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Aston Villas hot young left back Jordan Amavi has been linked again in La Parisian

:pac:
Another Freudian slip?

Harry Palmr

By this stage it should be clear I'm just playing with you all! :pac:

Knex*

French fella I used to work with, who is mad into football and can list off the history of many of the French team's academies etc, is a massive fan of Amavi.

Soon as he joined Villa last year he was saying that he would move on to a bigger team before long, so it was a shame to see him get injured and miss out on showing what he could do.

Haven't seen much of him at all myself, but definitely wouldn't be against the signing.

MD1990

I feel very uncomfortable in this thread now.

J Mysterio

FBI is monitoring it now. Thanks Harry.

Harry Palmr

Changes topic quickly.....does anyone else now wonder about Henderson or Milner being at the club beyond next summer? With Grujic and Wijnaldum at the club and even taking Allen leaving into account it feels like one of them will leave even if it's not this window.

gafferino

ricero wrote: »

Have to say i think we have (at least on paper) one of if not the best
attack force in the league now

Really?

I dont agree.... I think we have a lot of potential.

Ings - we dont know
Sturridge - has the ability but maybe not the temperament and obviously injuries are a major question mark for him.
Origi - Potential
Mane - Potential
Coutinho - class but needs more consistency
Ferminho - looking good but needs to step up more this season
Benteke - gone id imagine
Lallana - not good enough for top 4 side

Where is the 20+ goal a season striker in there? At the moment its all potential but i think to say we have possibly the best attacking force in the league is stretching it big time

BullBlackNova

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Changes topic quickly.....does anyone else now wonder about Henderson or Milner being at the club beyond next summer? With Grujic and Wijnaldum at the club and even taking Allen leaving into account it feels like one of them will leave even if it's not this window.

I dunno about Henderson, but I reckon Milner will go next summer if the team lines out as we expect this year.
He didn't leave a title challenging side (well, they were when he left!) where he was still wanted to sit on the bench with us. He did well after Christmas last season and has a lot to offer, but he's also never shied away from moving on when something better/more suitable was on offer.
He'd be 31 next summer so could still offer plenty to a lot of teams, too, so I don't see him being happy with a bit part role here if that's all he gets.

gafferino wrote: »

Really?

I dont agree.... I think we have a lot of potential.

Ings - we dont know
Sturridge - has the ability but maybe not the temperament and obviously injuries are a major question mark for him.
Origi - Potential
Mane - Potential
Coutinho - class but needs more consistency
Ferminho - looking good but needs to step up more this season
Benteke - gone id imagine
Lallana - not good enough for top 4 side

Where is the 20+ goal a season striker in there? At the moment its all potential but i think to say we have possibly the best attacking force in the league is stretching it big time

Sturridge will score 20 if he's fit. If he isn't, Ings and Origi will manage it between them I would say quite confidently.
The attack is the only part of the team I'm actually confident in. There are goals in this side for sure.
I would expect Sturridge to get close to 20 if he's fit, and Ings and Origi to get close to 10 in bit part roles. More games and they'll score more.
Plus Firmino and Mane will score (as we saw last year), as will Wijnaldum.
I'd certainly want more from Lallana, Coutinho, Henderson and Milner, but with limited games we have to be realistic here too.

Agent Coulson

Sturridge has only once in his career since 06/07 scored more than 20 league goals in a season and that was when he played alongside the best player in the league world that season.

The next most league goals total in a season he scored is 11 then it's 10 and that is in 12 seasons as a pro.


People need to get over the myth of Sturridge.

Harry Palmr

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Sturridge has only once in his career since 06/07 scored more than 20 league goals in a season and that was when he played alongside the best player in the league world that season.

The next most league goals total in a season he scored is 11 then it's 10 and that is in 12 seasons as a pro.

People need to get over the myth of Sturridge.

Sturridge scored 8 last season in 1000 minutes of football while retuning from injury, if he can keep that mins/goal ratio up and play the season then he'll score about 20 goals. Yes it could be a big ask but I can make that observation about many strikers. Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Wijnaldum can all add a respectable number of goals within a system that is predicated on an efficient team rather than hoping for one of two players to score 25 goals each to cover up shortcomings elsewhere (Rodgers 2013/14)

Agent Coulson

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Sturridge scored 8 last season in 1000 minutes of football while retuning from injury, if he can keep that mins/goal ratio up and play the season then he'll score about 20 goals. Yes it could be a big ask but I can make that observation about many strikers. Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Wijnaldum can all add a respectable number of goals within a system that is predicated on an efficient team rather than hoping for one of two players to score 25 goals each to cover up shortcomings elsewhere (Rodgers 2013/14)

If!


In 12 seasons a pro he has one outlier of a season 13/14 yet that is the season everyone bases everything on Sturridge not the other 11 seasons.

murpho999

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Sturridge has only once in his career since 06/07 scored more than 20 league goals in a season and that was when he played alongside the best player in the league world that season.

The next most league goals total in a season he scored is 11 then it's 10 and that is in 12 seasons as a pro.


People need to get over the myth of Sturridge.

That's handy, he scores 20 goals in one season and you attribute it to another player. That's always good to suit your argument.

He is our best striker and has done many things without Suarez, remember Suarez was suspended for a while that season too and he scored some quality goals.

Remember his goal in the Europa League final?

Injuries is his problem but people judge him on that as if he does it on purpose.
Hopefully he has a fit season and then we can judge him at his best.

Harry Palmr

England about to go out of the U19s v Italy - Ojo came on after 68mins at 2-0 down and immediately made them a better side FT 2-1 - lord along know what Boothroyd was thinking :rolleyes:

Dickerty

Harry Palmr wrote: »

England about to go out of the U19s v Italy - Ojo came on after 68mins at 2-0 down and immediately made them a better side FT 2-1 - lord along know what Boothroyd was thinking :rolleyes:

Bloody stupid to leave out a player who can change games like that. And that's why England at every level fail to win anything.

rob316

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Sturridge has only once in his career since 06/07 scored more than 20 league goals in a season and that was when he played alongside the best player in the league world that season.

The next most league goals total in a season he scored is 11 then it's 10 and that is in 12 seasons as a pro.


People need to get over the myth of Sturridge.

You need to get over your hard on for Sturridge. When he plays he scores, a fit Sturridge will outscore most strikers in this league, that you cant deny.

A fairer representation of Sturridge is his goals to minute ratio.

rob316

Just a comparison of Sturridge minutes per goal to other previous strikers.

Suarez - 1.62
Sturridge - 1.74
Torres - 1.75

Ya he's some myth :rolleyes:

Now if you want to talk about his fitness that is another story, all I know though is, he has been fit for a while now and deserves the support and belief from the supporters as he is a fantastic player and one who's quality we cant ignore.

Milkers

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Sturridge has only once in his career since 06/07 scored more than 20 league goals in a season and that was when he played alongside the best player in the league world that season.

The next most league goals total in a season he scored is 11 then it's 10 and that is in 12 seasons as a pro.


People need to get over the myth of Sturridge.

Daniel Sturridge has played 69 league games for Liverpool and scored 43 goals.

#mythical

Buford T. Justice XIX

Look, I love Sturridge as a player as much as anyone and he is a great goal scorer....when he's on the pitch.

The problem is he isn't on the pitch enough!

Will he ever return to where he was or even approaching where he was? I have my doubts, tbh, but I surely hope he does.

I'm still thinking about the last 10 or so games last season when he should have been progressing and getting more into the rhythm of the game and, honestly, he simply wasn't.

Whether that is as a result of injuries taking something from his game or he is afraid of pushing himself to compete 100%, I simply don't know but we will have an answer by Christmas(assuming he isn't injured again:rolleyes:)

J Mysterio

gafferino

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I dunno about Henderson, but I reckon Milner will go next summer if the team lines out as we expect this year.
He didn't leave a title challenging side (well, they were when he left!) where he was still wanted to sit on the bench with us. He did well after Christmas last season and has a lot to offer, but he's also never shied away from moving on when something better/more suitable was on offer.
He'd be 31 next summer so could still offer plenty to a lot of teams, too, so I don't see him being happy with a bit part role here if that's all he gets.



Sturridge will score 20 if he's fit. If he isn't, Ings and Origi will manage it between them I would say quite confidently.
The attack is the only part of the team I'm actually confident in. There are goals in this side for sure.
I would expect Sturridge to get close to 20 if he's fit, and Ings and Origi to get close to 10 in bit part roles. More games and they'll score more.
Plus Firmino and Mane will score (as we saw last year), as will Wijnaldum.
I'd certainly want more from Lallana, Coutinho, Henderson and Milner, but with limited games we have to be realistic here too.

Im not saying there isnt goals in the team but someone said we have 'one of if not the best attacking options in the league'. Far from it imho.