Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

mormank

Augeo wrote: »

The chap is 26, you are going back to when he was 14 seemingly?

I was asleep but I'm shocked it took over two hours for anybody to mention this! :eek:

Dickerty

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Sorry I guess I didn't have a good education but at least some manners and I don't curse.

Edit no I'm not sorry it say more about your education than mine that quote really.

Seriously? Let it go, this is pathetic now...

PaddyWilliams

Jaysus, it's an error over numbers. Get over it , someone making an error over numbers isn't world ending or anything. Mistakes are made, we all make them. Fúck sake.

LFC CONNAUGHTON

Agent Coulson wrote: »

and I don't curse.

Agent Coulson

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

Buford T. Justice XIX

Grayditch wrote: »

I feel good. And not just because I had a bath, but because I think we'll do good football this season.

A bath is always a good idea.

And football too.

Washington Irving

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

Jaysus, it's an error over numbers. Get over it , someone making an error over numbers isn't world ending or anything. Mistakes are made, we all make them. Fúck sake.

Depends.

Knex*

I don't trust people who don't swear. I like when people throw curses into sentences as if they've been stabbed in the ass.

rob316

When people say they are underwhelmed by the transfer window what did they expect? Reus, Higuaín sort of names or what? We are buying players who will improve us, its not head scratchers like Benteke or Markovic.

We are stuck in a cycle of mediocrity since Benitez left, we pick up the odd gems like Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge but largely we are buying at the level we have finished almost consistently for the better part of the last 10 years.

What we need is a season like 13/14 where we punch above our weight and finish right up there. We had a chance to break the cycle after that season but resorted to type by buying quantity over quality. We need a coach which I believe we have now, to make a team greater than the sum of their parts and reach the expectations of the fan base.

After we have done that, then we can dine at the mega transfer table and buy in established stars.

Agent Coulson

Knex. wrote: »

I don't trust people who don't swear. I like when people throw curses into sentences as if they've been stabbed in the ass.

It's the 21st century dude nothing about asses is taboo anymore :cool:

Getting stabbed in the ass could be seen as very hipster even Deadpool did it.

mormank

GBX wrote: »

"Please provide a fan in the bedroom for Coutinho"

"Fan" ... that code for brazzer?

Maybe I've been watching too much Vikings and Spartacus lately but I read that to mean a hot young one for Phillipe to have his way with! :eek: I mean, he is from Brazil, out of all the squad why would he be the one needing his room cooled down.

mormank

messinkiapina wrote: »

This is the most underwhelmed I've been by a transfer window in a long while. The club feels like it's stuck in reverse. Trying to catch teams above us by signing players that wouldn't get near their first teams, while they continue to improve. It can't work, unless you pull off some rare and improbable feat as Leicester did.

It's hard to blame anyone. I certainly don't blame klopp, or even fsg. Its all about money now, and you can't blame fsg for not being able to outspend the ever growing list of clubs around Europe that have become more attractive destinations. If you haven't got it, you can't spend it.

Old Kloppo took a team of players at Mainz that wouldn't have gotten into the top teams of that division at the time and got them promoted to the Bundesliga for the first time in their history.

He then took a team of players at Dortmund that at the time wouldn't have gotten into the Bayern team of the time and won the League several times with them so the last thing I would worry about is whether or not any of our individual players would get into other teams. All we need to worry about is how this team performs as a team.

I for one am very confident. While I don't expect us to win the league this year I would be shocked if Klopp left us without winning it. And for someone who has only experienced 1 genuine title challenge in his lifetime, never mind actually winning the bloody thing, having that belief for the first time is more than good enough for me.

mormank

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

Jaysus, it's an error over numbers. Get over it , someone making an error over numbers isn't world ending or anything. Mistakes are made, we all make them. Fúck sake.

Intentions are everything and he was intending on using every single season Sturridge made even an appearance as a mark against him and his potential to score 20 goals for us this season. Even with correct figures that is a hugely disingenuous argument to make. Like his first or second seasons as a pro when he was 17/18 or whatever were failures cos he didn't hit 20 league goals. His argument is flawed and desperate, not just his numbers.

Morzadec

Looks like Wijnaldum is basically confirmed: http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36846756

Any experts on him? Was discussing him with a couple of friends and we weren't quite sure whether he is being signed as an attacking player to compete alongside Coutinho / Firmino / Mane / Lallana or as a CM.

His Whoscored positions show he's more of an attacking player, playing mostly as an AM or as a left winger. But my friends seemed to think he was a centre-mid and the timing of the Allen sale might suggest this. He seems to score a lot of his goals arriving a a late runner from a central position.

Don't know a lot about him I have to say. But he seems to score a good chunk of goals wherever he's been.

Would be interested to hear a Newcastle fan's opinion or someone who has watched him play a decent bit

whatawaster

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Sturridge has only once in his career since 06/07 scored more than 20 league goals in a season and that was when he played alongside the best player in the league world that season.

The next most league goals total in a season he scored is 11 then it's 10 and that is in 12 seasons as a pro.


People need to get over the myth of Sturridge.

Owen never scored more than 20, Torres only once and Fowler only twice. It's not that easy to do.

Nobody is arguing that Sturridge isn't injury prone and doesn't miss too many games. But he is a top class goalscorer when fit which he again demonstrated second half of last season

Glico Man

With Wijnaldum pretty much confirmed, it ends a transfer rumour saga going back to 2010. Almost Arda Turan territory. Almost. So it seems he's been on our scouts minds for quite a while, linked before he subsequently moved to Newcastle last summer too.

That_Guy

Morzadec wrote: »

Would be interested to hear a Newcastle fan's opinion or someone who has watched him play a decent bit

So, my view on aul Gigi is that he is a lazy bollocks who goes missing and contributes absolutely nothing. Like a flashier but equally lazy Sissoko.

NOW. That comes with a caveat.

Newcastle are a completely different club to Liverpool.

We seemingly praised negativity and in turn the club rewards failure. At least it did pre-Rafa.

I watched every Newcastle game last season and commentators bought into a myth with him that he's a hard working creative player who scores goals.

I mean, that was true for one game when he had the performance of a lifetime against Norwich and then just dropped off the face of the planet.

He wasn't the only player who was at fault for our woes but when you're brought in to specifically create chances, he failed spectacularly and just strode about the place not seemingly giving a shít.

Again, not the only player to have downed tools.

He was pushed out on the left wing for a few games but where he shone the most (for a little while) was in a CAM role just off the striker and gave him a free role to just go wherever he wanted.

I am sure that Klopp wouldn't put up with his shíte and I'm sure that there is a good athlete in there somewhere but he didn't bother to show any of his potential with us.

That's why the majority of Newcastle fans don't really care that he's gone. A player that COULD do well but ultimately didn't try with us.

That's about as honest an assessment I can give of him. Like I say, Liverpool a very different animal to Newcastle.

Talisman

rob316 wrote: »

After we have done that, then we can dine at the mega transfer table and buy in established stars.

If we reach the top level without buying such stars why would we need to buy them?

On more than one occasion Klopp has said he doesn't want to sign star players who want to ride on the success already achieved. He wants players who are hungry and willing to work to make the team a success.

NukaCola

That_Guy wrote: »

He wasn't the only player who was at fault for our woes but when you're brought in to specifically create chances, he failed spectacularly and just strode about the place not seemingly giving a shít.

Are you being entirely fair?

Was he not Newcastles top scorer? He scored a quarter of all their goals with 5 assists......failed spectacularly for creating chances while being responsible for 16 goals seems crazy harsh to me.

Yea he scored 4 against Norwich but he also scored against Southampton, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, West Ham and Spurs.........only a Newcastle fan could be annoyed that he didn't do more

~Rebel~

NukaCola wrote: »

Are you being entirely fair?

Was he not Newcastles top scorer? He scored a quarter of all their goals with 5 assists......failed spectacularly for creating chances while being responsible for 16 goals seems crazy harsh to me.

Yea he scored 4 against Norwich but he also scored against Southampton, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, West Ham and Spurs.........only a Newcastle fan could be annoyed that he didn't do more

I get the impression of "when he's arsed, he's great - he just wasn't arsed enough".

Numbers only ever say so much, and when a player's role isn't just to score goals - when you expect him to be a fulcrum of a team, if they go missing it's incredibly frustrating. We've had more than a few doing that down the years. A decent goal return papers over those details, but it doesn't change the fact that some players hinder the teams overall performance by not being as involved as they should be in the general minute to minute play. Benteke for instance. His goals return is actually decent for us, he was just hugely disappointing as a player.

As That Guy said, hopefully Klopp can get a bit more passion and consistency out of him, as he has with so many other of our players. Wijnaldum clearly has the tools, so I'm more than happy to give him a chance, even if he's not the guy i'd have picked to spend that much money on.

That_Guy

NukaCola wrote: »

Are you being entirely fair?

Was he not Newcastles top scorer? He scored a quarter of all their goals with 5 assists......failed spectacularly for creating chances while being responsible for 16 goals seems crazy harsh to me.

Yep. I think I'm being entirely fair.

11 goals in the league is pretty good for a midfielder. 4 goals v Norwich and 2 v Spurs when we were down and out contributed to a large number.

But if you look at his stats, he goes 5, 6... even 7 games without assisting or scoring. Like I say, his job was to create chances and he managed to do that 5 times.

Like I say, he's not the only contributing factor with our failure last season. He can't control players missing chances but to assist in 5 goals all season is a pathetic looking stat.

Yea he scored 4 against Norwich but he also scored against Southampton, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, West Ham and Spurs.........only a Newcastle fan could be annoyed that he didn't do more

He took half the bloody season off. Why do I not have the right to demand more from him? He was absolute poison on the pitch for the majority of the season.

Just because he managed to score against Spurs, Man United and Liverpool doesn't wash away all the disgraceful performances he was displaying for all and sundry.

Unless of course you only watched us when we were on TV and the entire team looked like bloody world beaters.... Bastards.

Talisman

That_Guy wrote: »

So, my view on aul Gigi is that he is a lazy bollocks who goes missing and contributes absolutely nothing. Like a flashier but equally lazy Sissoko.

That's a tad harsh considering he's a creative player whose position had previously been attacking midfield or as a winger. He scored 11 goals in the league and also contributed a few assists in a team that was devoid of a spine. Playing him in central midfield was never going to work.

Utopia Parkway

NukaCola wrote: »

Are you being entirely fair?

Was he not Newcastles top scorer? He scored a quarter of all their goals with 5 assists......failed spectacularly for creating chances while being responsible for 16 goals seems crazy harsh to me.

Yea he scored 4 against Norwich but he also scored against Southampton, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, West Ham and Spurs.........only a Newcastle fan could be annoyed that he didn't do more

If there's one thing that annoys fans about a player at their club is the feeling that they are not giving 100% or anything like it. Even goals and assists don't make up for a perceived lack of effort in the eyes of supporters.

Didn't see Newcastle enough last season to tell if Wijnaldum quit on the team. The stats on paper are impressive enough but never tell the whole story.

Liverpool probably hoping he'll be better around better players and a manager like Klopp who won't put up with anyone who doesn't put the work in. And he'll have to work to get in the team as Liverpool have a lot of options in that area of the field.

That_Guy

Talisman wrote: »

That's a tad harsh considering he's a creative player whose position had previously been attacking midfield or as a winger. He scored 11 goals in the league and also contributed a few assists in a team that was devoid of a spine. Playing him in central midfield was never going to work.

Ok, he didn't contribute absolutely nothing. He contributed irregularly we shall say.

We didn't play him in central midfield. We played him just off the striker. He did have about 7 games out on the wing initially but that wasn't working so we put him into a position where he looked better... then looked amazing... then took an absolute nosedive... then looked promising only to take another nose dive.

Kerrigooney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVCPZtGUQac

Top man.

NukaCola

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Numbers only ever say so much

Failed spectacularly while contributing 16 goals to a terrible Newcastle team seems harsh was my point. Some of his stats I give below give a better view IMO.

That_Guy wrote: »

Just because he managed to score against Spurs, Man United and Liverpool doesn't wash away all the disgraceful performances he was displaying for all and sundry.

Unless of course you only watched us when we were on TV and the entire team looked like bloody world beaters.... Bastards.

I have no doubt you've seen him more than me. I just wonder are you being fair, or are you are biased due to Newcastles relegation and your view a bit clouded by that. Not saying your wrong, I mean I dont like Milner but his stats have proven me wrong about his effectiveness.

Just some stats for Wijnaldum for example, started 36/38 games, played in CM/LM/AM, 11 goals, 5 assists, 85% passing average with average distance of 15m, 48 chances created, 71% shooting average. According to squawka he was your stand out player last season. I'm no Bill James but the stats do not align with your assessment. Stats aren't everything I know, I guess I'm disappointed that you'd label him a failure when I have seen no evidence of this (from a smaller set of games admittedly)

That_Guy

I'm not wanting Wijnaldum to fail for Liverpool. I can only comment on what I remember him for.

4 goals v Norwich and bang average... even detestable performances.

He surely can't do any worse with Liverpool but the numbers attached to his name (at Newcastle anyway) don't always tell the full story.

He doesn't always get as much as stick as say Sissoko because at least with Gigi he at least tried at some stage. There'll be better players at Liverpool so he may flourish but I haven't seen anything like that on a consistent basis.

For what its worth, he does have a nice smile.

sword1

Wijnaldum and mane scored 11 each last year, only 2 midfielder s scored more mahrez and Sanchez, Liverpool's top scorer was firmino with 10 and benteke with 9 .I know that is only scratching the surface of the stats but hopefully our attacking options are better

That_Guy

NukaCola wrote: »

Just some stats for Wijnaldum for example, started 36/38 games, played in CM/LM/AM, 11 goals, 5 assists, 85% passing average with average distance of 15m, 48 chances created, 71% shooting average. According to squawka he was your stand out player last season. I'm no Bill James but the stats do not align with your assessment. Stats aren't everything I know, I guess I'm disappointed that you'd label him a failure when I have seen no evidence of this (from a smaller set of games admittedly)

Again, you're reading the numbers rather than the performances. Those are high numbers in a terrible Newcastle team sure but I'm not being biased against him.

I'm sure he'd have done a great job under Rafa in the Championship if he wanted to stay on.

Alas, he gave up the ghost under McClaren and eventually showed a bit under Rafa but like most of the players, the damage had already been done.

That_Guy

That_Guy wrote: »

.........



He took half the bloody season off. Why do I not have the right to demand more from him? He was absolute poison on the pitch for the majority of the season. ........

I suppose if he gave his all in most of the games we wouldn't be getting him for £25m

An element of risk no doubt but he'll have to fight for a starting place for Liverpool so that coupled with us presumably being in the hunt for Top4 might well bring the best out of him more consistently than last season.

cheers for your input though, great to get a detailed view from someone who watched plenty games he featured in.

That_Guy

Augeo wrote: »

I suppose if he gave his all in most of the games we wouldn't be getting him for £25m

I'm sure if we were still in the Premier League you'd have had to tag on an extra 10 million for him.

I certainly think there's better players for that price tag but don't ask me how Liverpool's transfer policy works. :pac:

NukaCola

That_Guy wrote: »

Again, you're reading the numbers rather than the performances. Those are high numbers in a terrible Newcastle team sure but I'm not being biased against him.

I'm sure he'd have done a great job under Rafa in the Championship if he wanted to stay on.

Alas, he gave up the ghost under McClaren and eventually showed a bit under Rafa but like most of the players, the damage had already been done.

I do enjoy stats. I would have thought McClaren pushed the players towards giving up, it can happen, he was sacked at least 2 months too late.

I'll ask a different question then. Do you think he was your best player last season and if not, who would you rate higher?

Talisman

Morzadec wrote: »

Looks like Wijnaldum is basically confirmed: http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36846756

Any experts on him? Was discussing him with a couple of friends and we weren't quite sure whether he is being signed as an attacking player to compete alongside Coutinho / Firmino / Mane / Lallana or as a CM.

His Whoscored positions show he's more of an attacking player, playing mostly as an AM or as a left winger. But my friends seemed to think he was a centre-mid and the timing of the Allen sale might suggest this. He seems to score a lot of his goals arriving a a late runner from a central position.

Sturridge (8), Mane (11), Wijnaldum (11) and Firmino (10) scored 40 league goals last season. There's question marks over the fitness of Sturridge and the consistency of the other three but it's a good platform for the team.

It should also push Coutinho and Lallana to become more consistent and contribute more goals or find themselves being squad players.

That_Guy

NukaCola wrote: »

I'll ask a different question then. Do you think he was your best player last season and if not, who would you rate higher?

I think of all the players, he was our best... But honestly not by much. My 2nd and 3rd choice were Rob Elliot and Jamaal Lascelles and the latter only came in to the fold late on due to injuries....

Kinda shows how absolutely muck we are as a "team".

Agent Coulson

Seems they really do like to have adjoining rooms

That_Guy

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand with that picture, I think it's time I vacate this Liverpool thread.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Legendary (or something like that) leftback (or something like that) Paul Konchesky signs for Gillingham.

http://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/news/article/2016-17/paul-konchesky-signs-for-gillingham-3199238.aspx

Is it wrong for me to wish they get relegated?

Talisman

That_Guy wrote: »

I'm not wanting Wijnaldum to fail for Liverpool. I can only comment on what I remember him for.

4 goals v Norwich and bang average... even detestable performances.

He surely can't do any worse with Liverpool but the numbers attached to his name (at Newcastle anyway) don't always tell the full story.

He doesn't always get as much as stick as say Sissoko because at least with Gigi he at least tried at some stage. There'll be better players at Liverpool so he may flourish but I haven't seen anything like that on a consistent basis.

I think that he has been judged harshly - it was his first season in the Premier League and there's no way he was going to carry the team. He showed glimpses of what he is capable of and that's all that should have been expected. It's very rare for foreign attacking midfielders to hit the ground running in the Premier League and be consistent in their first season. They usually take a season to settle. Similarly at Liverpool, Firmino only showed glimpses of quality last season.

Out of curiosity what is your assessment of Shelvey's contribution?

That_Guy

Talisman wrote: »

Out of curiosity what is your assessment of Shelvey's contribution?

Shelvey.

Started off like a house on fire.

Then after the fire took hold, the house was rebuilt a la Ned Flanders' house after it got destroyed by a hurricane in that episode of the Simpsons.

Sure, the exterior looked the same but when you looked deeper, it all just went to crap pretty fast and it just wasn't the same house Shelvey we thought we were getting.

Talisman

Talisman wrote: »

Sturridge (8), Mane (11), Wijnaldum (11) and Firmino (10) scored 40 league goals last season. There's question marks over the fitness of Sturridge and the consistency of the other three but it's a good platform for the team.

It should also push Coutinho and Lallana to become more consistent and contribute more goals or find themselves being squad players.

To be fair Coutinho got 8 goals in 26 PL games for us

I think it's brilliant to be discussing that we have made signings that might put Coutinho on the bench though, really great. He will have to be on the boil more consistently as if Wijnaldum and/or Mane are in form there'll be room on the bench.

Also the pressure to compete to keep/get a place in the starting 11 is probably more motivational than the pressure of repeated expectation to contribute the match winning pass or goal week after week.

Can only help all of the players, would be great to have some of that (not match winning expectation of course) competition at LB :pac:

J Mysterio

That_Guy wrote: »

Shelvey.

He'll be brilliant for ye in the championship (I genuinely mean that btw).

amber69

Kerrigooney wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVCPZtGUQac

Top man.

Brilliant Lucas, hate to see him go, class act. I didn't always think that in fairness.

54and56

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Legendary (or something like that) leftback (or something like that) Paul Konchesky signs for Gillingham.

http://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/news/article/2016-17/paul-konchesky-signs-for-gillingham-3199238.aspx

Is it wrong for me to wish they get relegated?

I really don't get the hate for any ex player unless he brought the club into serious disrepute or didn't try his best in training and when picked to play.

Konchesky may have been a poor quality signing but that's not his fault is it? If there is anger at his signing it should be aimed at the people who approved it (Hodgson and whoever else was involved in transfers at the time) rather than a player being offered an opportunity he may have dreamed about all his life? What professional player when invited to join on a financially rewarding contract is going to say "no, I don't think I'm good enough to join Liverpool"?

xabi

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Legendary (or something like that) leftback (or something like that) Paul Konchesky signs for Gillingham.

http://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/news/article/2016-17/paul-konchesky-signs-for-gillingham-3199238.aspx

Is it wrong for me to wish they get relegated?

I think I hear Konchesky's mother registering for boards to come and berate you.

BTW, I don't get the hate for Konchesky, I'd sign for Liverpool if the offer was there and I'm a bit worse than King Kon

mosstin

Reading back over this thread today, the discussion on Sturridge's years as a pro or me in mind of that wonderful Twitter argument between two Arsenal fans over Jackson Martinez's age. On phone so can't link but worth reading.

8-10

That_Guy wrote: »

Like I say, his job was to create chances and he managed to do that 5 times.

Like I say, he's not the only contributing factor with our failure last season. He can't control players missing chances but to assist in 5 goals all season is a pathetic looking stat.

I'm sorry but you say you're being fair but the above quote is definitely unfair.

Assists is not a fair stat to use when trying to assess a player you say was bought to create chances. Assists are chances created that ended up in the net. The difference between the 2 is the fact that assists means you're relying on other players to put the chance away.

Chances created is a stat. You could use that to show how many he created, alongside the fact that 5 of them were assists.

Actually you did use chances created. You said he managed to create chances 5 times all season. I don't believe that. You are basically either grossly misstating the amount of chances by using a smaller number, or you are saying that 100% of his chances created resulted in a goal. I think you need to look into his chances created last season as you will probably fund that he created closer to 10 times what you're stating he did - meaning the assist stat that you're calling pathetic has to include the Newcastle players he was creating the chances for, and it's not fair to gloss over that

Knex*

Wasn't there a rumour years ago about Hendersons' sexuality? :pac:

Also, will say with regard to That Guy's posts, a lot of folks on Reddit have the same opinion as himself. I'm still happy with the signing, however.

J Mysterio

mosstin wrote: »

On phone so can't link but worth reading.

How does that prevent you? I use my phone 99.9% of the time i'm on boards.

BorneTobyWilde

Maybe Henderson will find his true calling in Hollywood.

5starpool

Knex. wrote: »

Wasn't there a rumour years ago about Hendersons' sexuality? :pac:

I'm sure that story will break any day now.