Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

Peter Schmeichel who was probably the best goalkeeper of the 90's constantly said he was the only player he hated to play against. Always thought that was a high compliment considering the calibre of player he would have come up against.

Was ultra :cool: the two Fowler put back Schmeichel in Cantona's comeback game after the KungFu ban, one of them had no business going in, eye of a needle job.

murpho999

mosstin wrote: »

Simply by turning the volume up.

Just get louder crowd noise and commentary. Players are not audible on TV.

mosstin

murpho999 wrote: »

Just get louder crowd noise and commentary. Players are not audible on TV.

Ohhhh, Murpho, you take me far too literally.

murpho999

mosstin wrote: »

Ohhhh, Murpho, you take me far too literally.

Well you never know some people might think that. Tone can be hard to detect on the internet at times.

Boom_Bap

~Rebel~ wrote: »

We had that debate here not long ago when Sterling was coming through. Was a fairly split opinion on it, some wanting him to be managed very carefully, others saying he was young and fit enough to keep playing.

I think we had a decent balance with him, but there was a period where we relied way too much on him for a few games on the trot.
We done a more softer approach with Ibe which didn't really work out.

Roanmore

Augeo wrote: »

Was ultra :cool: the two Fowler put back Schmeichel in Cantona's comeback game after the KungFu ban, one of them had no business going in, eye of a needle job.

And still didn't get man of the match.

kfallon

Augeo wrote: »

Was ultra :cool: the two Fowler put back Schmeichel in Cantona's comeback game after the KungFu ban, one of them had no business going in, eye of a needle job.

The two he put past him at Anfield a couple of months later weren't too shabby either

Pepp1989

Roanmore wrote:

And still didn't get mam of the match.

Visions of players being mothered competitively.

Muahahaha

Is it just me and or are others full of Klopptimism for the coming season?

Ive probably just caught a bout of pre-season positivism but I think with no European football and a week between games we should be seeing real improvements this term and hopefully a good tilt at top 4

galwaylad14

Too young to really remember Fowler in his pomp but I've seen the highlights and his goals record in his early days, awesome player. I can remember him the second half of his career alright where he was never in that class but was always a good finisher.

Read his book a few years ago and I must say he came across as a total arsehole, no other words could describe him. So arrogant. However I could accept the arrogance and it's probably almost a required trait for a a lot of footballers, you have to think you're the best.
What I couldn't get over though was the outrageous double standards he applied between the rumours about his own supposed addiction to charlie and the rumours that abounded that time about Graeme Le Saux's sexuality.

It's clear from the book how much he hated those rumours about the cocaine, he hated the effect it had on his family, he hated how his friends and neighbours weren't 100% sure they were true or not, he hated it being mentioned to him on the pitch or sang at him by opposition fans. Fair enough and the celebration against Everton was obviously a reaction to those rumours and that's perfectly reasonable.

But then he goes into great detail about the how much fun he had "harmlessly" mocking Le Saux about the rumours regarding his sexuality. He repeatedly made outrageously obscene gestures towards Le Saux in a match between Chelsea and Liverpool. Le Saux has gone on record about how hurtful this was to his family and how it effected him privately.

But Fowler refused to apologise and refused to see it as anything other than a bit of fun. He couldn't seem to see the parallels at all between how hurtful he found the rumours of his private life and how hurtful Le Saux found the rumours about his.

As well as that it seemed from the book that time that Fowler wasn't the cleverest when it came to minding himself or his body/diet etc which probably also contributed towards his relatively short career at the top.

J Mysterio

murpho999 wrote: »

Just get louder crowd noise and commentary. Players are not audible on TV.

That's not true at all. You can definitely hear some players on TV. Carragher for one.

Turtyturd

I'm not sure if that's a proper point or a joke about Carragher being a pundit.

F*cking preseason.

Francie Barrett

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is it just me and or are others full of Klopptimism for the coming season?

Well not me anyway! Honestly, I am hoping for the best, but not holding out too much hope. I think the league is going to be ferociously difficult this year with all the top managers coming in and the money sloshing about. I think Klopp gives us the best chance at breaking into top 4, but not convinced we have the players to do it.

I can see us improving on last seasons 8th place finish. I can see us perhaps getting 6th this time out.

citytillidie

Who wants to create the MEME and stick on the humour thread lol you know act like a small time set of fans

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sadio-mane-turned-down-manchester-11668016

BullBlackNova

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is it just me and or are others full of Klopptimism for the coming season?

Ive probably just caught a bout of pre-season positivism but I think with no European football and a week between games we should be seeing real improvements this term and hopefully a good tilt at top 4

I think a top 4 finish next season would require an awful lot of luck. There are so many dependent factors:

- If Karius settles right away
- If Sturridge stays fit
- If Firmino and Can improve as we all expect them to (and Origi)
- If Coutinho can find some consistency
- If Mané/Wijnaldum hit the ground running
- If Lovren/Matip/Sakho/Klavan can form a solid CB partnership
- If we capitalise on not having midweek games again (Chelsea also dont have this distraction, and Utd can entirely ignore if they want...)
- If Moreno is replaced/has a successful brain transplant before the season starts...

Sure, we might get lucky with some of these factors, but I don't see it all happening, at least not right away.

murpho999

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is it just me and or are others full of Klopptimism for the coming season?

Ive probably just caught a bout of pre-season positivism but I think with no European football and a week between games we should be seeing real improvements this term and hopefully a good tilt at top 4

Aren't we optimistic every year.

Surely this is 'Our Year'. We should have the league wrapped up by March.

Thought Fowler came across very well in his book. Diet etc wasn't great back than & English clubs were behind the curve.

He mentioned being out with his mates down the local chipper having his special fried rise hours after scoring at anfield, his nickname was Prawno as he liked prawn cocktail crisps.

He had serious hip injuries/issues that hindered him more than his diet.

Overall, Fowler is a great lad IMO. Some boy to invest too, no fear of bankruptcy etc.

gimli2112

I've read a good few footballer autobiographies and they all come across a little off. A lot of them have been detached from the real world since birth more or less - the footballer who called his agent to get him to tell his gardener to go home as the noise was disturbing him, Chelsea cutting JT's toenails etc.


Niall Quinn in particular was hard to take. The only one that I thought came across really well was Paul McGrath but he didn't sugercoat his failings.


Didn't think Fowler was bad but I'd be heavily biased.

murpho999

gimli2112 wrote: »

I've read a good few footballer autobiographies and they all come across a little off. A lot of them have been detached from the real world since birth more or less - the footballer who called his agent to get him to tell his gardener to go home as the noise was disturbing him, Chelsea cutting JT's toenails etc.


Niall Quinn in particular was hard to take. The only one that I thought came across really well was Paul McGrath but he didn't sugercoat his failings.


Didn't think Fowler was bad but I'd be heavily biased.

I really enjoyed the one by Tony Cascarino. He was very honest in that one. A good read and insight.

garra

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Too young to really remember Fowler in his pomp but I've seen the highlights and his goals record in his early days, awesome player. I can remember him the second half of his career alright where he was never in that class but was always a good finisher.

Read his book a few years ago and I must say he came across as a total arsehole, no other words could describe him. So arrogant. However I could accept the arrogance and it's probably almost a required trait for a a lot of footballers, you have to think you're the best.
What I couldn't get over though was the outrageous double standards he applied between the rumours about his own supposed addiction to charlie and the rumours that abounded that time about Graeme Le Saux's sexuality.

It's clear from the book how much he hated those rumours about the cocaine, he hated the effect it had on his family, he hated how his friends and neighbours weren't 100% sure they were true or not, he hated it being mentioned to him on the pitch or sang at him by opposition fans. Fair enough and the celebration against Everton was obviously a reaction to those rumours and that's perfectly reasonable.

But then he goes into great detail about the how much fun he had "harmlessly" mocking Le Saux about the rumours regarding his sexuality. He repeatedly made outrageously obscene gestures towards Le Saux in a match between Chelsea and Liverpool. Le Saux has gone on record about how hurtful this was to his family and how it effected him privately.

But Fowler refused to apologise and refused to see it as anything other than a bit of fun. He couldn't seem to see the parallels at all between how hurtful he found the rumours of his private life and how hurtful Le Saux found the rumours about his.

As well as that it seemed from the book that time that Fowler wasn't the cleverest when it came to minding himself or his body/diet etc which probably also contributed towards his relatively short career at the top.

The Le Saux incident will go down as one of Fowler's career lowlights.. I didn't think it was big or clever at the time and have never done so since.. I would say Fowler feels a bit of a knob when he remembers it, if I was Le Saux I would have thumped his fat grinning face at the time.

murpho999

garra wrote: »

The Le Saux incident will go down as one of Fowler's career lowlights.. I didn't think it was big or clever at the time and have never done so since.. I would say Fowler feels a bit of a knob when he remembers it, if I was Le Saux I would have thumped his fat grinning face at the time.

Good choice of phrase for a homophobic incident.

rob316

Fowler has apologized and said he regrets it and Le Saux has accepted it. He said he was young and just trying to wind him up. Not saying it was right, but its important to remember this was also almost 20 years ago too football has come along way regarding racism and homophobia.

galwaylad14

rob316 wrote: »

Fowler has apologized and said he regrets it and Le Saux has accepted it. He said he was young and just trying to wind him up. Not saying it was right, but its important to remember this was also almost 20 years ago too football has come along way regarding racism and homophobia.

Well the book was only written in the last 7 or 8 years and he certainly didn't regret it then. Still regarded it as a bit of fun and thought Le Saux should just it as a joke and get over it.

I'd say the main reason for the apology is just that because of the times we live in now that sort of thing is, rightly, not tolerated at all and Fowler had little choice but to apologise.

BullBlackNova

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Well the book was only written in the last 7 or 8 years and he certainly didn't regret it then. Still regarded it as a bit of fun and thought Le Saux should just it as a joke and get over it.

I'd say the main reason for the apology is just that because of the times we live in now that sort of thing is, rightly, not tolerated at all and Fowler had little choice but to apologise.

In 2014, he said the following about it:

Tonight on the Off The Ball Roadshow at McHugh's Drogheda, Fowler - who has long since apologised to Le Saux - addressed the matter.

"I apologized again not long ago because something else got brought up again. I'd apologized many years ago but just felt I needed to again just to tell people that I was sorry. It was a stupid thing to do [to LeSaux]. I think as a player, you try to get the better of the opposition by any means. I was a mischievous lad and I was a mysterious player. I was trying to belittle him and get on the wrong side of him to make him have a bad game. There was no malicious intent.

Taken from Newstalk.

Buford T. Justice XIX

A little piece from The Football Times about Bob Paisley.

http://thesefootballtimes.co/2016/05/05/bob-paisley-the-gentle-man-who-couldnt-stop-winning/

MD1990

The top 10 in the PL is strong. But there are some weak teams this season unless they make some good signings. Hull,Burnley,Sunderland,Watford,Swansea,Palace are poor sides who I think will struggle.

citytillidie

I wonder if boards will now change the ban on twitter clips after this announcement

http://www.digitalspy.com/tech/internet/news/a802748/premier-league-clips-finally-coming-to-your-twitter-feed/

Nesta99

MD1990 wrote: »

The top 10 in the PL is strong. But there are some weak teams this season unless they make some good signings. Hull,Burnley,Sunderland,Watford,Swansea,Palace are poor sides who I think will struggle.

Watford and Palace will be no mugs this season. Watford finished in the top 10 last season and in the cup semi so i'm not too sure where you getting the impression that they are a weak side?! Sunderland and Swansea will likely improve on last season. Hull and Burnley are unknowns. No doubt you'd have been including Leicester as one of the weak sides start of last season!!

BullBlackNova

Nesta99 wrote: »

Watford and Palace will be no mugs this season. Watford finished in the top 10 last season and in the cup semi so i'm not too sure where you getting the impression that they are a weak side?! Sunderland and Swansea will likely improve on last season. Hull and Burnley are unknowns. No doubt you'd have been including Leicester as one of the weak sides start of last season!!

Watford finished 13th last season and the impression that they are a bad side comes from their horrendous run of form after Christmas last season. I can't say I know much about the new boss but they were quite limited last season in that when Ighalo stopped scoring, they stopped winning.

They won just 4 games in 2016 (against Newcastle, Villa, WBA, Palace) and went on 2 separate 4 game losing streaks.

I'd have them in the unknown category myself, likely to finish upper mid table. But I also wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they went down - same for Sunderland, Swansea, Middlesbrough, West Brom.

Naturally, it seems quite silly to write off any side after last season but sure...

NukaCola

garra wrote: »

The Le Saux incident will go down as one of Fowler's career lowlights.. I didn't think it was big or clever at the time and have never done so since.. I would say Fowler feels a bit of a knob when he remembers it, if I was Le Saux I would have thumped his fat grinning face at the time.

I love Robbie but I agree with you, the incident with Le Saux was a low point for him IMO. Le Saux got terrible abuse throughout his career. His account of what happened does not paint Fowler in the greatest of lights. Even the "he apologised" newstalk quote kinda goes against what Le Saux says below.

Le Saux wrote:

The Chelsea–Liverpool match at Stamford Bridge in 1999 was a high-tempo game and early in the second half I moved to clear the ball from left back. Robbie tried to block it but fouled me. I went down and Paul Durkin, the referee, booked him. Robbie looked at me. “Get up, you poof,” he said.

I stayed on the turf to get treatment and by then Robbie was standing ten yards away. The ball was in front of me, ready for the free kick. I looked at Robbie. He started bending over and pointing his backside in my direction. He looked over his shoulder and started yelling at me. He was smirking. “Come and give me one up the a***,” he said, repeating it three or four times.

I ran to the halfway line and tried to confront Robbie. I told him my family was in the stand. “Bollocks to your family,” he said.

In his autobiography, Robbie wrote that I ran up to him and shouted “but I’m married and he replied “so was Elton John, mate”. It is a nice line and makes him look funny, which is the most important thing to him, but he used dramatic licence. He did not say that.

Eventually, the ball was played down the left side and Robbie made a run towards our penalty area. I came across and ran straight into him with a swing of the elbow. Thankfully I am not very good at it. We had a few more tussles, then Robbie caught me on the calf and I had to come off.

Three days after the game, the FA charged us both with misconduct.

I sent him a letter of apology and got a letter from him, too. Not an apology, just an attempt to save face, couched in legal niceties and drafted by a lawyer or agent, designed to appease the FA tribunal before it sat in judgment. It was a sad excuse, really, an insult to the intelligence.

Later, in his autobiography, Robbie wrote: “Football’s a tough sport and to get to the top you have to be incredibly thick-skinned. A bit of name-calling never hurt anyone and the truth is I wasn’t being homophobic, merely trying to exploit a known weakness in an opponent who had done me a number of times.”

It is an interesting line of defence. According to Robbie’s rationale, it is OK to call a black man a “n*****” and pretend it is in the line of duty. I do not think so. I do not think even Robbie would argue that. He did not really have a defence and that was the best he could come up with. It was not a very good effort.

A month after Robbie offered me his backside, we were picked in the England squad. There was an awkward reunion at Burnham Beeches. Robbie did not have quite as much bravado in that situation. He looked like a naughty little boy.

Kevin Keegan was the manager and he wanted us to stage a public reconciliation for the press. I said immediately that unless Robbie said sorry, that was not going to happen. I did not want a public apology, just a private word would do. But he refused. He said that he had done nothing wrong, that it was just a bit of a laugh.

Keegan started to back off at that point. He was not qualified to deal with it, but I felt more confident. I was determined to stand up for myself. I confronted Robbie while we were in Keegan’s room. I pointed out that if he had taken the p*** out of someone like that in the middle of London’s Soho, where the gay clubs are, he would have been chased down the street and beaten up.

Even then, Robbie could not resist it. When I mentioned the gay clubs, he muttered: “You’d know where they are.” I told him I would be professional on the training pitch, but that there was no way I was going to shake his hand.

I do not feel any animosity towards Robbie now, but the stuff he sought to justify nearly drove me out of the game.

galwaylad14

Hadn't actually read as much as that about the incident before, had only seen a shortened version of it. Very good player in his day but what a total wanker he really is.

MonkeyTennis

Christ lads, he apologised twice and LeSeaux accepted his apology. No one is excusing his behaviour. He's grown up like some of you lot should do.

NukaCola

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Christ lads, he apologised twice and LeSeaux accepted his apology. No one is excusing his behaviour. He's grown up like some of you lot should do.

What are you on about?

"............but the stuff he sought to justify nearly drove me out of the game"............ such horse sh1t

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

"............but the stuff he sought to justify nearly drove me out of the game"............ such horse sh1t

Why?

Graeme Le Saux got bullied because he didn't fit in. He had different interests, listened to different music, didn't go out drinking with the lads, dressed differently etc. His team mates thought there was something up with him and started to call him gay. Started off as a joke first. Then every day the same thing. Even the coaches were in on it. Then the fans and opposition were at it. I never had to endure such provocations but I dont think its reasonable to say that he should be more thick skinned.

Not everyone can handle bullies with ease. He was a young man when this started happening. It effected his life and led to depression. The justification of "A bit of name-calling never hurt anyone" and doing it to "exploit a known weakness in an opponent" did almost drive him out of the sport.

Read this if you have the time. Its a piece Le Saux wrote. The times version is behind a paywall......

https://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/

Turtyturd

NukaCola wrote: »

Why?

Kid needs to man up ol' boy. :cool:

magma69

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I think a top 4 finish next season would require an awful lot of luck. There are so many dependent factors:

- If Karius settles right away
- If Sturridge stays fit
- If Firmino and Can improve as we all expect them to (and Origi)
- If Coutinho can find some consistency
- If Mané/Wijnaldum hit the ground running
- If Lovren/Matip/Sakho/Klavan can form a solid CB partnership
- If we capitalise on not having midweek games again (Chelsea also dont have this distraction, and Utd can entirely ignore if they want...)
- If Moreno is replaced/has a successful brain transplant before the season starts...

Sure, we might get lucky with some of these factors, but I don't see it all happening, at least not right away.

Great post. You'd be banking on far too many stars to align to predict a top 4 finish this season.

MD1990

Augeo wrote: »

"............but the stuff he sought to justify nearly drove me out of the game"............ such horse sh1t

Not horse sh1t at all. Getting constantly abused by thousands of fans about your sexuality would be very hard to deal with . Fowler's actions & initially not apologizing was really,really poor.

TitianGerm

Augeo wrote: »

"............but the stuff he sought to justify nearly drove me out of the game"............ such horse sh1t

Your post is horse sh1t in fairness.

Did you think maybe Le Saux suffered abuse for being gay on a daily/weekly basis and it nearly drove him out of the game?

If you were subjected to hate like that for any period of time you'd strongly consider leaving your job, and would have zero tolerance to anyone who acted like that.

galwaylad14

Augeo wrote: »

"............but the stuff he sought to justify nearly drove me out of the game"............ such horse sh1t

Don't like this comment at all to be honest. You can have no idea how much this might have affected Le Saux on both a personal and professional level.

Just because Fowler played for Liverpool doesn't mean you have to defend him indefinitely. He acted like a homophobic arsehole in this incident and I wouldn't be at all sure that he's even one bit sorry about it.

Agent Coulson

The where is Mama video by Firmino, Coutinho and some player I kind of recognize I think plays every now and then is quite funny.

Agent Coulson

What time does the game kick off tonight/early morning?

Riesen_Meal

Agent Coulson wrote: »

What time does the game kick off tonight/early morning?

4.30 our time I think, somehow think I may miss this one...

J Mysterio

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The where is Mama video by Firmino, Coutinho and some player I kind of recognize I think plays every now and then is quite funny.

Any chance of posting it?

Agent Coulson

J Mysterio wrote: »

Any chance of posting it?

Edit..Just seen on Twitter that the video is from January Not the other day.

Firmino doesn't have his topknot should have been a give away.

https://vine.co/v/iMF56IlrtZE

galwaylad14

galwaylad14 wrote: »

..... I must say he came across as a total arsehole, no other words could describe him. So arrogant.........

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Hadn't actually read as much as that about the incident before, had only seen a shortened version of it. Very good player in his day but what a total wanker he really is.

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Don't like this comment at all to be honest. .......

Just because Fowler played for Liverpool doesn't mean you have to defend him indefinitely. He acted like a homophobic arsehole in this incident and I wouldn't be at all sure that he's even one bit sorry about it.

I'm not surprised you don't like the comment.
You think Fowler is a total wanker, total arsehole & arrogant, I'm sure you will take offence to anyone defending the chap

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

..........

Not everyone can handle bullies with ease. He was a young man when this started happening. It effected his life and led to depression. The justification of "A bit of name-calling never hurt anyone" and doing it to "exploit a known weakness in an opponent" did almost drive him out of the sport.

Read this if you have the time. Its a piece Le Saux wrote. The times version is behind a paywall......

https://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/

I read that years ago and thought the irony was incredible....

"..........A few minutes later he did me again and started yelling the same stuff. I snapped. I said something that I knew would hurt him. I insulted his wife.

Paul went ballistic. He was livid. He spent the rest of the match trying to kick lumps out of me. When the final whistle went I was going down the tunnel when I caught sight of him out of the corner of my eye, about to land a punch. I ducked out of the way and scarpered. The guy had lost it completely; he wanted to kill me. He was a prime example of someone who could dish it out but could not take it. He had been calling me all the names, personal stuff that he must have known would hurt, and yet as soon as I retaliated in kind, he could not cope."

Takes offence to being called a poof yet decided insulting a chaps wife in retaliation was the way to go, also he didn't detail what exactly he said so I can only imagine if was nothing less than quite insulting.

Also he detailed in the other article how he wrote a letter of apology to Fowler yet Fowler's similar letter was a clear solicitor job with the intent of getting off the charge, of course Le Saux sent his from the bottom of his heart.

Also the crowds were years taunting Le Saux but he took exceptional offence to Fowler doing it, ffs lads, you'd want to be a tad naive to swallow that crap.

Debil

Augeo wrote: »

Also the crowds were years taunting Le Saux but he took exceptional offence to Fowler doing it, ffs lads, you'd want to be a tad naive to swallow that crap.

Years of torment culminated in this moment. A public humiliation by his peer. Did you even read the article? What is difficult to imagine?

"What Robbie had done had always been my worst fear."

Harry Palmr

hi ho, judge the poster by the posts I say.

Debil

Debil wrote: »

Years of torment culminated in this moment. A public humiliation by his peer. Did you even read the article? What is difficult to imagine?

"What Robbie had done had always been my worst fear."

I think le saux is quite frankly lieing
His worst fear was someone beckoning him to have a lash on the pitch in a gay taunt. And Fowler delivered.... nope. Not likely to be true IMO.

It's almost clever but not quite, plenty believe him though no doubt.

I'll say no more as we are wandering off topic.