Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

jcsoulinger

J Mysterio wrote: »

But we know he doesnt fit. Round peg, square hole. If we can get a good price (£30M) sell, sell, sell.

Id be surprised if Klopp see's players as round pegs he can do nothing with, he probably see's it as an opportunity to get his hammer and chisel out and do some work. Did he not try and sign him at Dortmund.

My point is if it's him or nobody I'd keep him, We won't lose much on him between now and Jan.

Talisman

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Toxic? Very harsh, He struggled for form, Firmino and Mane are not really strikers, Ings And Origi have done very little at the club so far either, I'm just saying if no one else is coming in why not keep him.

My bad - I misread the post and thought you were considering keeping Balotelli as an option.

Benteke doesn't suit our style of play and should move on for the good of his own career. I don't buy the "it's not his fault" argument, unless Sturridge was fit Rodgers wasn't going to play two up front. Benteke himself already knew he couldn't play up front as a lone forward. He chose the big pay packet on offer at Liverpool in spite of this.

SlickRic

There is no doubt that some of our potential rivals have been making impressive waves in the transfer market. there is no doubt about that, and there's no point pretending it's not impressive.

if we were signing Pogba after signing Mkhtaryan, we'd be unbearably smug.

the fact of the matter is though, that there are plenty of ways to skin a cat.

in Klopp, the club have put their trust in someone, based on his track record with Dortmund, that can compete and win even if he's not the biggest dog in the yard. that is our gameplan right now.

if the time is right, he's also not scared to spend relatively big if needed.

let the Utd fans have their day. they're entitled to it. it's a fantastic coup, regardless of the shíte about spending £100m that they didn't need to if they just kept him. that's meaningless.

what matters is what happens during the season. Mourinho still has to get that team to gel. Klopp still has to get this team to gel. Pep has to get City's working. Conte, Chelsea's.

that will be the real time for fans to gloat and pick holes in each other's philosophies. there's no point in trying to argue now, as there's nothing concrete on the pitch to base anything on.

NukaCola

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Toxic? Very harsh, He struggled for form, Firmino and Mane are not really strikers, Ings And Origi have done very little at the club so far either, I'm just saying if no one else is coming in why not keep him.

I'd have Sturridge, Ings, Origi and Firmino before Benteke and even then I'd give Mané a try before him. I like Benteke, but dont think we can get the best out of him and he cant adapt to what is needed for us. He scores but doesn't contribute to overall play enough, its a harsh assessment but a fair one IMO. We have plenty of cover, I wouldn't be against holding on to him however if a 25M+ bid comes in and I'd be happy to sell.

NukaCola

Just on the Pogba deal, its also another nail in the "You need CL for the best players/They prefer London" excuse. If you have the money you can sign just about anyone.

J Mysterio

NukaCola wrote: »

Just on the Pogba deal, its also another nail in the "You need CL for the best players/They prefer London" excuse. If you have the money you can sign just about anyone.

China and Qatar like this.

Talisman

NukaCola wrote: »

Just on the Pogba deal, its also another nail in the "You need CL for the best players/They prefer London" excuse. If you have the money you can sign just about anyone.

Having a manager with a reputation for winning trophies also helps. Man Utd also had the money when Moyes was their manager.

MD1990

NukaCola wrote: »

Just on the Pogba deal, its also another nail in the "You need CL for the best players/They prefer London" excuse. If you have the money you can sign just about anyone.

Pogba is currently on about 70k a week at Juventus. He will earn 290k a week at Man Utd. No wonder he is joining Man Utd. Not even Real,Barca or PSG can match that much. Also Serie A players have tended to struggle in the PL in the last few years but Pogba is a fantastic player no doubt about that.

jcsoulinger

Talisman wrote: »

My bad - I misread the post and thought you were considering keeping Balotelli as an option.

Benteke doesn't suit our style of play and should move on for the good of his own career. I don't buy the "it's not his fault" argument, unless Sturridge was fit Rodgers wasn't going to play two up front. Benteke himself already knew he couldn't play up front as a lone forward. He chose the big pay packet on offer at Liverpool in spite of this.

God no Balotelli can be turned into glue for all I care.

It seems I'm fighting a losing battle on benteke the general consensus on here being take the money while we can.

I just feel he as all the attributes to be the type of player we need, he's not beyond learning as he isn't completely without pace.

Anyway just going on record that should we still have him on September 1st I will be a small bit happier.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Just on the Pogba deal, its also another nail in the "You need CL for the best players/They prefer London" excuse. If you have the money you can sign just about anyone.

Nobody ever made that argument.

Obviously if you throw enough money at people you can have anyone you want.

Otherwise City and Chelsea wouldn't be where they are.

Our problem is that that's irrelevant to us, because we don't have that kind of money.

Utd are going to spend more in wages and a transfer fee on Pogba than we will on everyone we've signed put together.

NukaCola

Gbear wrote: »

Nobody ever made that argument.

Ah it was said on here a good few times when we missed out on targets. They prefered London, or they went to a CL team......I dont have time to go back and go through the threads but I read it a lot when we missed targets.

J Mysterio

Gbear wrote: »

Obviously if you throw enough money at people you can have anyone you want.

Just to make the point that money isnt everything and not everyone can be bought.

J Mysterio

NukaCola wrote: »

Ah it was said on here a good few times when we missed out on targets. They prefered London, or they went to a CL team......I dont have time to go back and go through the threads but I read it a lot when we missed targets.

I think they are both valid arguments too and would play a part in anyones decisionmaking.

NukaCola

J Mysterio wrote: »

I think they are both valid arguments too and would play a part in anyones decisionmaking.

I'm not saying they aren't just that the right offer can persuade anyone (almost)

J Mysterio

NukaCola wrote: »

I'm not saying they aren't just that the right offer can persuade anyone (almost)

I agree that money will persuade most. Its something ive never understood really as if youre making £80k a week, you are filthy rich, why do you need to compromise your loyalty/ lifestyle/ family/ etc. for £150k. Anyway...

Vicxas

Vicxas wrote: »

Well, the UTD thread is having a right old laugh at our xfer policy under Klopp.... :rolleyes:

Same people probably saying Chelsea and City were buying the leagues

The last people to laugh at the past few years transfer policy of any club should be Utd. Van Gaal spent quarter of a billion.

Remains to by seen if Klopp policy is good or bad after 0 games

Vicxas

gafferino wrote: »

3rd kit for next season :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Its actual not bad in the flesh, the quote on the bottom is a bit cringe tho...

donnacha

New 3rd kit already in the hangers in Liffey Valley. Looks as bad IRL.

8-10

We really shouldn't have a need for a third kit this season. It's ridiculous. Last season's away jersey, the white one, was lovely and could still be used if there's any sort of clash.

GiftofGab

J Mysterio wrote: »

NukaCola wrote: »

I'm not saying they aren't just that the right offer can persuade anyone (almost)

I agree that money will persuade most. Its something ive never understood really as if youre making 80k a week, you are filthy rich, why do you need to compromise your loyalty/ lifestyle/ family/ etc. for 150k. Anyway...

It feeds their ego.

8-10

8-10 wrote: »

We really shouldn't have a need for a third kit this season. It's ridiculous. Last season's away jersey, the white one, was lovely and could still be used if there's any sort of clash.

We'll probably wear it in 3 or 4 matches if even that

corwill

Vicxas wrote: »

Its actual not bad in the flesh, the quote on the bottom is a bit cringe tho...

Mike Ashley will give it to us for a tenner in about 9 months time, I'lll need something for painting about then.

corwill

Gbear wrote: »

Our problem is that that's irrelevant to us, because we don't have that kind of money.

That's not really the case, though. We're just choosing not to spend it.

mormank

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Terms like "Toxic" and "Stealing a Living" are a total joke.

The previous manager bought a lot of wrong players but that's not the players fault.

If they are not in the Klopp's plans that doesn't mean they are toxic or stealing a living.

So you think someone like Mario Balotelli has "earned" his millions from us fair and square?? Come on, pull the other one.... :rolleyes:

mormank

Gbear wrote: »

Nobody ever made that argument.

Obviously if you throw enough money at people you can have anyone you want.

Otherwise City and Chelsea wouldn't be where they are.

Our problem is that that's irrelevant to us, because we don't have that kind of money.

Utd are going to spend more in wages and a transfer fee on Pogba than we will on everyone we've signed put together.

Well let's clarify. There is a large selection of mercenaries you can choose from by just throwing money at them, not quite anyone. Remember city had to start off by signing the likes of Roque Santa Cruz, Neymar etc first before they could sign Aguero, SIlva, Toure etc. There are many other factors such as geography, the team's manager etc.

mormank

J Mysterio wrote: »

I agree that money will persuade most. Its something ive never understood really as if youre making £80k a week, you are filthy rich, why do you need to compromise your loyalty/ lifestyle/ family/ etc. for £150k. Anyway...

Well, if you were a pro player when you retire at 33/34 with your whole life ahead of you would you prefer to have 1 million in the bank or 10 million? 10 million or 100 million? It is really quite simple to understand. It's basic Maths.
Where do you draw the line? You said 80k a week is filthy rich. Why stop at 80k so is 70k, so is 60k, 50k etc...When you have money you want more money, when you don't have money you want more money. People (in general, not all) have an unquenchable thirst for money. Tis part of the reason it is considered the root of all evil.

mormank

J Mysterio wrote: »

I agree that money will persuade most. Its something ive never understood really as if youre making £80k a week, you are filthy rich, why do you need to compromise your loyalty/ lifestyle/ family/ etc. for £150k. Anyway...

I suppose in a sense, to us being filthy rich is like being pregnant, we can understand the concept but we will never REALLY understand what it's like!

mormank

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Same people probably saying Chelsea and City were buying the leagues

The last people to laugh at the past few years transfer policy of any club should be Utd. Van Gaal spent quarter of a billion.

Remains to by seen if Klopp policy is good or bad after 0 games

Mourinho is in line to spend that in 1 transfer window! :eek:

mormank

mormank wrote: »

Mourinho is in line to spend that in 1 transfer window! :eek:

True but you can't judge his transfers policy yet.

Same as you can't judge Klopps.

Anyone that does can be discounted.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Ah it was said on here a good few times when we missed out on targets. They prefered London, or they went to a CL team......I dont have time to go back and go through the threads but I read it a lot when we missed targets.

There are many pull factors in buying footballers, but you can override them all in the vast majority of cases if you throw enough money at them.

That doesn't mean it's a viable strategy for a club like us - not least because we can be easily outbid even if we do meet the ultimate demands of the selling club and player.

mormank wrote: »

Well let's clarify. There is a large selection of mercenaries you can choose from by just throwing money at them, not quite anyone. Remember city had to start off by signing the likes of Roque Santa Cruz, Neymar etc first before they could sign Aguero, SIlva, Toure etc. There are many other factors such as geography, the team's manager etc.

Those weren't the best they could buy. They were just a cost-effective mid-point.

corwill wrote: »

That's not really the case, though. We're just choosing not to spend it.

What money aren't we spending?

Do you think we have the kind of money to be spending 150m+ net every year?
Or ever for that matter?

Utd not only have nearly double our profit, but they also have a more valuable squad and a larger wage bill, so they can generate more money from selling players and reducing the wage bill than we can.

We're not going to be matching them any time soon in that department and that's down to econmics and not a lack of ambition.

sword1

corwill wrote: »

That's not really the case, though. We're just choosing not to spend it.

62million out 46 million in ,not sure how much of the in club get after commission etc .With a major expenditure on the stadium the owners are not taking a profit. Hopefully get 30 million for benteke but longterm for the club it might be as well if it was used to keep the borrowing for the stadium down like arsenal did .

NukaCola

Gbear wrote: »

There are many pull factors in buying footballers, but you can override them all in the vast majority of cases if you throw enough money at them.

That doesn't mean it's a viable strategy for a club like us - not least because we can be easily outbid even if we do meet the ultimate demands of the selling club and player.

We could outbid a lot of teams I'd imagine but our owners want us to be self sufficient which is fair enough.

Or instead of paying 40 odd million + 160k a week on Mario and Markovic, 2 players who weren't really used much since their signing we could have used it for a target the manager actually wanted. Our transfer policy means we wont throw money at big names rather than our actually ability to do it. Its not a strategy we can do every single time but once per season it could be done I'd imagine.

mormank

RoboKlopp wrote: »

True but you can't judge his transfers policy yet.

Same as you can't judge Klopps.

Anyone that does can be discounted.

I would never under estimate Mourinho! Even Zlatan has won the league in first season at his last 5 clubs isn't it? they will be very strong this season imo.

mormank

Gbear wrote: »

There are many pull factors in buying footballers, but you can override them all in the vast majority of cases if you throw enough money at them.

That doesn't mean it's a viable strategy for a club like us - not least because we can be easily outbid even if we do meet the ultimate demands of the selling club and player.



Those weren't the best they could buy. They were just a cost-effective mid-point.



What money aren't we spending?

Do you think we have the kind of money to be spending 150m+ net every year?
Or ever for that matter?

Utd not only have nearly double our profit, but they also have a more valuable squad and a larger wage bill, so they can generate more money from selling players and reducing the wage bill than we can.

We're not going to be matching them any time soon in that department and that's down to econmics and not a lack of ambition.

I have to disagree with your reply to my post. They were the best players they could get at the time and they were all way over priced at the time, nothing cost effective about that wave of players at all. Remember Elano, Petrov? There was loads of them and they would not have been signed if better could have been aquired. No one signs Roque Santa Cruz when they could buy Ronaldo. They even signed Neymar just to increase the profile of player possible to sign in future windows imo. No team has gone from Shaun Goater to Aguero in 1 window with Billionairre owners. It takes a few windows as has been shown time and again.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

We could outbid a lot of teams I'd imagine but our owners want us to be self sufficient which is fair enough.

Or instead of paying 40 odd million + 160k a week on Mario and Markovic, 2 players who weren't really used much since their signing we could have used it for a target the manager actually wanted. Our transfer policy means we wont throw money at big names rather than our actually ability to do it. Its not a strategy we can do every single time but once per season it could be done I'd imagine.

Who is that player?

Any time this issue comes up nobody has ever told me a realistic target that we could get for the money we're spending on 2 or 3 players.

Yes, we could theoreticall spend £40m and 220k/w on a player.
Just like I could theoretically buy a 2nd hand porsche.
Doesn't mean it would be a sane financial decision.

mormank wrote: »

I have to disagree with your reply to my post. They were the best players they could get at the time and they were all way over priced at the time, nothing cost effective about that wave of players at all. Remember Elano, Petrov? There was loads of them and they would not have been signed if better could have been aquired. No one signs Roque Santa Cruz when they could buy Ronaldo. They even signed Neymar just to increase the profile of player possible to sign in future windows imo. No team has gone from Shaun Goater to Aguero in 1 window with Billionairre owners. It takes a few windows as has been shown time and again.

None have tried because even billionaires have limits to their financial clout.
That doesn't mean it's not possible.

Also, City weren't the same beast under Shinawatra.

City were still pretty much nobodies when they signed Aguero, Toure, Silva and co.

8-10

mormank wrote: »

I would never under estimate Mourinho! Even Zlatan has won the league in first season at his last 5 clubs isn't it? they will be very strong this season imo.

His last 6 clubs. 13 titles in the last 15 years. The 2 years he didn't win a title, his team were 2nd in the league. Not bad.

NukaCola

Gbear wrote: »

Who is that player?

Any time this issue comes up nobody has ever told me a realistic target that we could get for the money we're spending on 2 or 3 players.

Yes, we could theoreticall spend £40m and 220k/w on a player.
Just like I could theoretically buy a 2nd hand porsche.
Doesn't mean it would be a sane financial decision.

Sanchez when we missed out on him, i know we apparently offered more but not enough to make a difference.

It would be a sane financial decision because we were using Suarez money and we would go on to spend high on mediocre players.

I'm not advocating spending big on big names for the sake of it and getting into debt, I'm just saying if we want our targets sometimes we'll have to overpay when in competition with other teams, and I think we can do it from time to time. Sanchez would have been as close as a replacement for Suarez as we could have gotten, we should have thrown money at him to join, and we had the money, we chose not too.......which is fair enough.

ricero

Ejaria to be called up by nigeria. He make his international debut before he even makes his senior league debut

NukaCola

8-10 wrote: »

His last 6 clubs. 13 titles in the last 15 years. The 2 years he didn't win a title, his team were 2nd in the league. Not bad.

13 titles in 30 seasons? Some record.....

martyos121

ricero wrote: »

Ejaria to be called up by nigeria. He make his international debut before he even makes his senior league debut

So well deserved, looks like one of our brightest prospects based on pre-season so far.

klose

ricero wrote: »

Ejaria to be called up by nigeria. He make his international debut before he even makes his senior league debut

They tried that with Ibe too but he rejected it, looking to cap tie him I would imagine.

klose

The 3rd kit makes me want to have a loop the loop so I'm going to go get one now.

Knex*

Is Kolo Toure the greatest cult hero of the last two decades?

I'm thinking of a few players that might be on the shortlist:

Kyrgiakos
Biscan
Erik Meijer
Djimi Traore
Titi Camara

Few arguable ones then such as Heskey, Kuyt & Crouch, but they had much more of a first team impact.

NukaCola

Knex. wrote: »

Is Kolo Toure the greatest cult hero of the last two decades?

I'm thinking of a few players that might be on the shortlist:

Kyrgiakos
Biscan
Erik Meijer
Djimi Traore
Titi Camara

Few arguable ones then such as Heskey, Kuyt & Crouch, but they had much more of a first team impact.

You miss-spelt Doni

Knex*

NukaCola wrote: »

You miss-spelt Doni

I'm actually ashamed of myself.

martyos121

Knex. wrote: »

Is Kolo Toure the greatest cult hero of the last two decades?

I'm thinking of a few players that might be on the shortlist:

Kyrgiakos
Biscan
Erik Meijer
Djimi Traore
Titi Camara

Few arguable ones then such as Heskey, Kuyt & Crouch, but they had much more of a first team impact.

Neil Mellor too, for how long it lasted.

8-10

NukaCola wrote: »

13 titles in 30 seasons? Some record.....

Whoosh! Right over my head, I don't get it?

mormank

8-10 wrote: »

His last 6 clubs. 13 titles in the last 15 years. The 2 years he didn't win a title, his team were 2nd in the league. Not bad.

Ya, Zlatan is even better than Mourinho at finding the easiest club to win a title with and signing for them! :cool:

mormank

NukaCola wrote: »

13 titles in 30 seasons? Some record.....

8-10 wrote: »

Whoosh! Right over my head, I don't get it?

Same, don't get it either.

NukaCola

8-10 wrote: »

Whoosh! Right over my head, I don't get it?

mormank wrote: »

Same, don't get it either.

Ah lads......I know its preseason but dont be like Sakho and start missing stuff......like thread jokes.......

A poster said Daniel Sturridge has been a pro for 12 seasons.....there was a whole thing about it......I would explain it better but i couldn't be bothered :P
To be honest you're in a better state for not reading it :pac: