Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

General consensus seems to be that Firminio works very hard. I'd like to see some evidence of that over the last couple of months. He was awful against Villareal and left his team mates hanging by not closing down space they pushed on to him. Sturridge has been pressing and working harder than Firminio recently.

I wouldn't let Firminio near the starting 11 on Thursday night. I'd have Milner, Coutinho and Lallana play behind Sturridge.

Kerrigooney

Deleted User wrote: »

General consensus seems to be that Firminio works very hard. I'd like to see some evidence of that over the last couple of months. He was awful against Villareal and left his team mates hanging by not closing down space they pushed on to him. Sturridge has been pressing and working harder than Firminio recently.

I wouldn't let Firminio near the starting 11 on Thursday night. I'd have Milner, Coutinho and Lallana play behind Sturridge.

Lalanna has had a few good games recently but was absolute gash last Thursday.

I'd imagine unless Sturridge is injured he'll definitely start on Thursday. If he doesn't then we'll know there's a problem between himself and Klopp.

Kerrigooney

quarryman wrote: »

Why?

Because it's the only way they will be relevant any time soon.

Bowlardo

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Klopp is more about the team than the individual. Sturridge is a great goal scorer but isn't the best at the pressing and tracking back side of things. Firmino is having a bad run atm but always works hard. Same can be said for Coutinho,Lalanna and Origi. Benteke doesn't like the pressing side of things either and he's not getting a lot of game time...I don't think it's a coincidence.

I think your right that there is something up. I hope it is just klopp trying to motivate him. It is very very worrying if klopp doesn't think sturridge should be started based on the pool of player he has too choose from.

I'm noticing a growing trend from football pundits and the likes were forwards tracking back is heralded as Amazing. A strikers job it to score goals!

We played 90 minute of football the other night and did not looks like scoring. Natural instinctive goal scorers are like hens teeth. players that Press and track are plentiful. (lalnna run all day and can't score for ****e!)

If sturridge starts today and not on Thursday then I would seriously doubt klopp. If sturridge is forced out of this club then we have serious problem. We have a high percentage of idiots even on here who are saying he should be sold. he is our one and only world class player.(coutinho is not world class yet)

Nalz

martingriff wrote: »

Add your reply here.

No but might play saturday when liverpool are playing swansea

You lying little brat!

Harry Palmr

Bowlardo wrote: »

If sturridge starts today and not on Thursday then I would seriously doubt klopp. If sturridge is forced out of this club then we have serious problem. We have a high percentage of idiots even on here who are saying he should be sold. he is our one and only world class player.(coutinho is not world class yet)

Well he'll be starting tomorrow if anyday this weekend, I for one expect he'll get a run out though only 45 mins at most and I expect he will start on Thursday - any ambiguity about that game and how to approach it ended when Villarreal scored - it'll have to be attack for 90 mins. However if Origi was fit he'd be starting not Sturridge and that is the thing to remember in all this - the 21 year old is now Klopp's first choice striker. The only question for Sturridge is whether he'll be willing to be second choice for the big games? If not then he's gone.

Milkers

For me this Sturridge thing is a bit crazy. I understand that at times players have to play certain roles, carry out specific functions within a system etc. but at some point the quality of a player counterbalances that. I think Sturridge is easily the level of player that if anything you should be slightly tweaking a system to accommodate him. Maybe it's his demeanour or the injury absences but even after all the amazing goals and performances he has put in since arriving at Liverpool he is still underrated by a large section of fans. And now seemingly by Klopp also. (or maybe I overrate him? :pac:)

As for Firmino, I'm obviously not alone in being very critical of him lately. Does that mean I don't think he could be great? No actually I like him a lot, I think he has incredible potential and has shown flashes of genius at times. But overall his performances have not been that good. I think Klopp overrates him massively at the moment.

As for Klopp himself of course there's noone I would want more as Liverpool manager. This is an incredibly exciting time to be a fan of the club. But like a player can he have a bad game? Yes and I think he had a poor one on Thursday (and I don't mean because we lost, that last minute goal was not Klopp's fault!). Leaving Sturridge out of the starting lineup was a mistake imo (see above) but in fairness a very debatable one. But when Coutinho went off he brought on Ibe which meant for 45 minutes we played with Ibe, Lallana and Firmino instead of Firmino, Lallana and Sturridge. I'm pretty sure which trio Villareal would much rather have faced! That was just a blatant error.

Btw Nuka, I don't have any coaching badges this is all just my opinion!

For the TL;DR crowd: Liverpool's winrate when Sturridge plays: 58%. When he's fit, just fking play him!

corwill

Milkers wrote: »

For me this Sturridge thing is a bit crazy. I understand that at times players have to play certain roles, carry out specific functions within a system etc. but at some point the quality of a player counterbalances that. I think Sturridge is easily the level of player that if anything you should be slightly tweaking a system to accommodate him. Maybe it's his demeanour or the injury absences but even after all the amazing goals and performances he has put in since arriving at Liverpool he is still underrated by a large section of fans. And now seemingly by Klopp also. (or maybe I overrate him? :pac:)

As for Firmino, I'm obviously not alone in being very critical of him lately. Does that mean I don't think he could be great? No actually I like him a lot, I think he has incredible potential and has shown flashes of genius at times. But overall his performances have not been that good. I think Klopp overrates him massively at the moment.

As for Klopp himself of course there's noone I would want more as Liverpool manager. This is an incredibly exciting time to be a fan of the club. But like a player can he have a bad game? Yes and I think he had a poor one on Thursday (and I don't mean because we lost, that last minute goal was not Klopp's fault!). Leaving Sturridge out of the starting lineup was a mistake imo (see above) but in fairness a very debatable one. But when Coutinho went off he brought on Ibe which meant for 45 minutes we played with Ibe, Lallana and Firmino instead of Firmino, Lallana and Sturridge. I'm pretty sure which trio Villareal would much rather have faced! That was just a blatant error.

Btw Nuka, I don't have any coaching badges this is all just my opinion!

For the TL;DR crowd: Liverpool's winrate when Sturridge plays: 58%. When he's fit, just fking play him!

Needs more pivot.

NukaCola

I dont disagree with people being annoyed that Sturridge didn't play. But some people think that just because Sturridge didn't play thats the reason we didn't get a result or that it was definitely a mistake. I dont agree. People are saying he would make the difference but Sturridge started 4 EL games and scored 1 goal.

Sturridge is phenomenal, I wont deny it, many might but I wont......if it was me I'd have started him no question....I'd work my tactics around him absolutely.....but I 100% understand why he wasn't used.

2 legged European ties are very different, its not always a matter of playing your normal game and best players. Its an away tie to a team who will kill an open team, and we like to play open football when Sturridge plays and is at his best......Klopp wanted to minimise their attack and play defensive......so what your asking Sturridge to do then is what Origi does and what Firmino does.......concentrate on closing down, minimise options, press and come deeper.....thats just not his game and doesn't get the best out of him.....

You could argue we should have went for it, but we could end up being caught out by their counter which was hard enough to contain even being defence minded. Personally I think when it looked like we had control in that second half we should have been a bit braver and brought Sturridge on. He brought Ibe on to double up on defensive duties and exploit the space given out wide but after about 10 mins of him shouting instructions at Ibe i reckon he knew he made a mistake in bringing him on.

For me it was clear though, keep them at 0-0 but try to nick an away goal, and it almost worked.

NukaCola

Milkers wrote: »

Btw Nuka, I don't have any coaching badges this is all just my opinion!

Badges or GTFO! :pac:

I have no problem with opinions, i was also just kidding but!....i will say that some posters argument was we'd win with Sturridge on the pitch with no real debate on why, just because.

MD1990

An example of why Sturridge isn't starting is his performances away from in Europe have been poor. He a very talented player but I hear some saying he is world class when he has never performed in a major championship for England or in Europe mostly due to injury but he also hasn't played well either.
Besiktas(last season) ,Augsburg & Man Utd he was poor in all these games. I would start him Thursday but I can see why he didn't start.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

......... However if Origi was fit he'd be starting not Sturridge and that is the thing to remember in all this - the 21 year old is now Klopp's first choice striker. ........

The old adage, form is temporary class is permanent.

I said it yesterday there's possibly a Houllier & Fowler thing going on, Houllier thought Heskey was better than Fowler.

I doubt Klopp thinks Origi is better than Sturridge, if he does there's a problem and it's not Sturridge
Origi is a goal every 3 games player this season, he has never been anywhere near that before, I hope he goes on to be a 1 in 2 or better striker for us but I wouldn't bet on it. Term purple patch comes to mind.


Regarding moneyball & FSG etc, I can't imagine them being overly unhappy with Sturridge's wages (£7.5m/annum if he hits goal targets iirc, £6m/annum basic) considering what they paid for him compared to ....

- Milner £100k/week and he won't be getting any better at his age
- Firmino £100k/week and cost £28m
- Benteke £140k/week and cost £32m

All in he's one of our costliest players but 1 of 5 or 6, not a huge outlier. He's missed lots of games this year and last, if they reckon he will going forward and they don't want to risk it he's definitely sellable to the extent that they won't come out badly from it £ wise.

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

...........i will say that some posters argument was we'd win with Sturridge on the pitch with no real debate on why, just because.

Most people made the point that we weren't testing VR in the final third despite having plenty of the ball.

It was clear after 30 mins that an actual striker would have been beneficial. Be it Sturridge or Benteke. Given Benteke is just back from injury and hadn't played a game since Feb iirc correctly Sturridge would have been the obvious choice once Coutinho had to come off imo.

He's scored frequently over the last 6 weeks, he's in form.

People saying we'd have won had he played is a tad looney (if anyone said that), we'd have had a far greater chance of scoring though you would think.

If he hadn't scored we would have been listening to the turd and his merryman bladdering on about it but that would have been preferable to not having a go against VR when an away goal would have been huge, worth double what a goal at Anfield will be worth now considering how Thursday's game finished.

K-9

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt what he says about Sturridge. I think it's very clear there is an issue between them. I hope they sort it out and Sturridge is on board next season but if Klopp wants something different then I'll have to accept that. I'd really loathe to lose a player of that quality though.

How is it very clear?

Riesen_Meal

Lovely tribute to the Hillsborough families from Everton at the start of their match....

Kerrigooney

If Sturridge came on after half an hour or at halftime maybe we would have had a better chance of scoring. But the other side of the coin is the shape and dynamic would have changed and maybe we would have lost by 2 or 3...who's to know?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Linked with Mateo Kovacic again today He's not in favour with Zidane and would like to link up with Klopp for E30m, same as he left Inter for. Spanish article though.

http://www.defensacentral.com/real_madrid/1461864765-el-liverpool-quiere-pescar-en-el-bernabeu

K-9

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well he'll be starting tomorrow if anyday this weekend, I for one expect he'll get a run out though only 45 mins at most and I expect he will start on Thursday - any ambiguity about that game and how to approach it ended when Villarreal scored - it'll have to be attack for 90 mins. However if Origi was fit he'd be starting not Sturridge and that is the thing to remember in all this - the 21 year old is now Klopp's first choice striker. The only question for Sturridge is whether he'll be willing to be second choice for the big games? If not then he's gone.

Probably second choice for European away games which is fair enough. I really don't think he'd have been worse than Firmino though.

If Sturridge was getting little game time I'd worry more but he's played a fair bit in the PL since he came back, so I think some are reading too much into the games he didn't play.

The other big thing is Klopp is also listening to medical and training advice, they probably have some plan on how to manage him. Sturridge probably knows that too but he can't say anything in the press.

If we know he can only play 90 minutes a week in this schedule, if he plays 90 tomorrow, that means he can't play Thursday.

No point telling the Villareal manager that in a press interview lads.

Buford T. Justice XIX

K-9 wrote: »

Probably second choice for European away games which is fair enough. I really don't think he'd have been worse than Firmino though.

If Sturridge was getting little game time I'd worry more but he's played a fair bit in the PL since he came back, so I think some are reading too much into the games he didn't play.

The other big thing is Klopp is also listening to medical and training advice, they probably have some plan on how to manage him. Sturridge probably knows that too but he can't say anything in the press.

If we know he can only play 90 minutes a week in this schedule, if he plays 90 tomorrow, that means he can't play Thursday.

No point telling the Villareal manager that in a press interview lads.

I've linked an article on the Echo on Flanagan missing games while building up his base fitness and Klopp remarks it's a similar process to that undertaken by Sturridge.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-boss-klopp-explains-11264217

K-9

Kerrigooney wrote: »

If Sturridge came on after half an hour or at halftime maybe we would have had a better chance of scoring. But the other side of the coin is the shape and dynamic would have changed and maybe we would have lost by 2 or 3...who's to know?

Against a better chance of getting that valuable away goal.

K-9

K-9 wrote: »

How is it very clear?

Ok I'll rephrase. It's very clear to me.

Turtyturd

K-9 wrote: »

Against a better chance of getting that valuable away goal.

Against a chance of being completely out of the tie. Away goals aren't the be all and end all, ask Dortmund. Would much rather still be this close than a few goals down with an away goal.

With the way the game set it up I don't think it was a game for Sturridge. Villareal defended well and he would have been restricted to his speculative pot shots, and not passing to his teammates for the most part.

K-9

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok I'll rephrase. It's very clear to me.

How stupid of me to ask on a discussion board! Nah, fair enough.

K-9

Turtyturd wrote: »

Against a chance of being completely out of the tie. Away goals aren't the be all and end all, ask Dortmund. Would much rather still be this close than a few goals down with an away goal.

With the way the game set it up I don't think it was a game for Sturridge. Villareal defended well and he would have been restricted to his speculative pot shots, and not passing to his teammates for the most part.

A second away goal in Dortmund would have made a big difference, we can't go on expecting to come back from 3 goal deficits!

Seriously though, I think Klopp was trying to keep it tight above all and that's fair enough, 0-0 I'd be very confident we'd do it even if they score. They look pretty decent defensively though, better than Dortmund anyway, though maybe that was no Origi or Sturridge.

I'd never dismiss away goals, look at Dortmund. If VR get one it will be a tough shout, 2 we need another miracle.

Turtyturd

Turtyturd wrote: »

With the way the game set it up I don't think it was a game for Sturridge. Villareal defended well and he would have been restricted to his speculative pot shots, and not passing to his teammates for the most part.

Or he could have made something from nothing which top strikers do occasionally.

Will VR not attempt to defend well on Thurs coming?
If so by your logic there's no point playing Sturridge.

Pyjamarama

People waffling about "serious doubts about Klopp if he doesn't start Struddige" and rubbish like that... If Klopp chooses not to start Danny then he has his reasons. I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the man who broke Bayerns dominance of the league over the opinion of Cpt. Hindsights any day of the weak. I remember people complaining when the team for the Dortmund away game was announced...

The manager will make some mistakes and some will costs us games points but ZERO questions or doubts should be asked/raised. The guy is a world class manager and I still can't believe that he's ours.

Milkers

Pyjamarama wrote: »

People waffling about "serious doubts about Klopp if he doesn't start Struddige" and rubbish like that... If Klopp chooses not to start Danny then he has his reasons. I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the man who broke Bayerns dominance of the league over the opinion of Cpt. Hindsights any day of the weak. I remember people complaining when the team for the Dortmund away game was announced...

The manager will make some mistakes and some will costs us games points but ZERO questions or doubts should be asked/raised. The guy is a world class manager and I still can't believe that he's ours.

Klopp is class but this is absolute nonsense.

K-9

Did somebody say they'd have serious doubts, Jaysus. That's some hyperbole, even for this thread.

jcsoulinger

Klopp is a class manager but we can still question his decisions, In hindsight he got it wrong Thursday night, had we not conceded then his decisions would have been justified but we did and now we face a very difficult tie to progress, we will have to attack them from the off which will play into their hands as they are stronger on the counter and even if we do get the 2 goals that would see us through in normal time we are still vulnerable to a late goal knocking us out, its a mess to be honest

Pyjamarama

Milkers wrote: »

Klopp is class but this is absolute nonsense.

Not doubts about his decision and whether they were right or wrong. I'm taking about doubts over whether he's the right manager to lead us forward.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Joe Allen and Kolo make the EL team of the week.

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=2355985.html#uefa+coms+europa+league+team+week

Dub13

Could I ask you all to go into this event and invite all Liverpool Fans you know to it in order to help get the word out about this great end of season get together for Irish Liverpool fans, and all for a great cause.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1729624730584311/

Kerrigooney

K-9 wrote: »

Did somebody say they'd have serious doubts, Jaysus. That's some hyperbole, even for this thread.

Bowlardo wrote: »

If sturridge starts today and not on Thursday then I would seriously doubt klopp. If sturridge is forced out of this club then we have serious problem. We have a high percentage of idiots even on here who are saying he should be sold. he is our one and only world class player.(coutinho is not world class yet)

.

Harry Palmr

Sergi Canós Tenés
‎‎@sergicanos

Wow That was incredible!! Last game for me in Griffin Park... Will always be in my heart. Thanks for everything. What a year has been for me...
6:29 PM - 30 Apr 2016

read all about Canos here (they love him)

http://www.griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118144&page=35

Agent Coulson

We are supposed to be in negotiations Ajax for one of there wingers I haven't watched the Eredivisie in years so no Idea what the standard is like these days.

True or not it's nice to be linked with real wingers again.

Turtyturd

Where's Assaidi these days?

Edit: Morocco, and almost doubled our money on him.

Kerrigooney

Turtyturd wrote: »

Where's Assaidi these days?

What's happened to Ilori? Did he get injured or?? I can't remember.

GotTheTshirt

Nice one Geordie fans, you'll never walk alone sang during the minutes applause before their game today, can't embed vid as on phone. Class.

Turtyturd

Kerrigooney wrote: »

What's happened to Ilori? Did he get injured or?? I can't remember.

Or Flanagan??

Quite a lot of disappearing players...maybe this is what's happening with Sturridge.

Harry Palmr

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We are supposed to be in negotiations Ajax for one of there wingers I haven't watched the Eredivisie in years so no Idea what the standard is like these days.

True or not it's nice to be linked with real wingers again.

Anwar El Ghazi is his name Dutch/Moroccan

Yarmalemko was linked a few days back.

Turtyturd wrote: »

Or Flanagan??

Quite a lot of disappearing players...maybe this is what's happening with Sturridge.

Flanno is being protected from himself apparently, needs to have his fitness maintained at a certain level or something.

Kerrigooney

Turtyturd wrote: »

Or Flanagan??

Quite a lot of disappearing players...maybe this is what's happening with Sturridge.

Someone needs to have a look under Klopp's patio. He has some explaining to do.

Turtyturd

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Flanno is being protected from himself apparently, needs to have his fitness maintained at a certain level or something.

I thought that despite the nickname Klopp had just realised he wasn't very good.

K-9

Kerrigooney wrote: »

.

Poor choice of wording! Mea culpa.

What I meant is I'm sure we'll see plenty of Sturridge on Thursday. Really, what's the other optiond, Benteke or Formino in a home leg that we need 2 goals at least in.

Kerrigooney

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Anwar El Ghazi is his name Dutch/Moroccan

Yarmalemko was linked a few days back.



Flanno is being protected from himself apparently, needs to have his fitness maintained at a certain level or something.

Maybe the same thinking is being applied to Sturridge and Klopp isn't the big bad wolf for not playing him all the time. Seems to be working too because he's not been injured for over a month and that's unheard of.

Kerrigooney

K-9 wrote: »

Poor choice of wording! Mea culpa.

What I meant is I'm sure we'll see plenty of Sturridge on Thursday. Really, what's the other optiond, Benteke or Formino in a home leg that we need 2 goals at least in.

Agreed. I'll be amazed if he doesn't start on Thursday.

Kerrigooney

Kerrigooney wrote: »

What's happened to Ilori? Did he get injured or?? I can't remember.

Sorry for quoting myself but I just came across something on Twitter saying Ilori will be off to Deportivo La Coruna in the Summer. Terrible signing.

K-9

K-9 wrote: »

How stupid of me to ask on a discussion board! Nah, fair enough.

I didn't mean it like that. Sometimes I find it hard to articulate my thoughts.

There's a few reasons I feel something is up.

I watch all the pre and post match press conferences with Klopp on YouTube. Sometimes I won't watch for 3-4 games then I'll spend 2-3 hours watching them one after another. I've noticed how uncomfortable he seems to be when talking about Sturridge. His reaction to questions on Daniel differs to questions on other squad members quite often - just my opinion.

We know he is ALL about 'the team'. He couldn't say it anymore than he does. Look as his history of bonding squads and achieving success. Didn't he go to an island with Fúck all facilities to bond with one of his teams (Mainz?) for a few nights. He's obsessed with togetherness.

He mentioned quite early about Sturridge 'needing to learn the difference between pain and real pain'. I can't remember exactly how he phrased it but it wasn't a second language thing. He meant what he said.

Sturridge is not in his current first team plan. I don't think it has anything to do with fitness. I think that is a very convenient smokescreen. Firminio was injured more recently than Sturridge and his route back into the first 11 was more normal - he got minutes to be match fit and straight into the first 11 v's Villareal. That's the normal way at most clubs for first 11 players.

Most fans agree Sturridge is looking as good as ever but Benteke (without any minutes since when?) comes in for the final few minutes. I mean Jesus. Talk about a sledgehammer.

Sturridge is not commiting to the philosophy - that is my opinion. We all know he's selfish. We see it on the pitch every time he plays. Shoots when he should pass. He berates players when they do the same but hangs his head and avoids eye contact when he does.

Think I've only ever seen him give Suarez the 'thumbs up I'm sorry' buzz. He bemoans a poor pass with a wise guy 'what the fùck' arms extended out to the side, but again, walks away head down when he does it.

He tried to claim that goal off his arsè recently and when his backheel was saved, and Firminio tapped in, he had his hands on his head for missing. That was his first reaction - not to celebrate a team goal. How many examples do we need to accept he is not a team player. I don't mind so much because he is the best finisher we've had since Fowler but it doesn't matter what I think.

There is a huge clash between the two in my opinion. I hope they sit down over the summer and thrash it out. I've always been about the manager. Players give me joy but the manager brings us success. Jurgen can do what he wants and I'll accept it. He's done it before and he'll do it again. He knows what he wants and needs. He's the most important person at LFC.

This is how clever I think he is - he sent us (the fans) a message about 'feeling alone in the stadium' in one of his early games when fans left early. Considering 'you'll never walk alone' is kinda a thing for us, I felt he may be a linguistic genius and piled on a dose of psychology to 45,000 people.

He knows what he's saying and he knows what he's doing. Klopp won't change so either Sturridge does or he's gone.

8-10

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We are supposed to be in negotiations Ajax for one of there wingers I haven't watched the Eredivisie in years so no Idea what the standard is like these days.

True or not it's nice to be linked with real wingers again.

Posted earlier in this thread about wanting us to go for him in the summer:

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057547242/458/#post98802695

And he's not a real winger. He's very much an inside forward/support striker or whatever you call that position. Basically the same position Suarez and Kenneth Perez played for Ajax a few years back. I'm editing this post again because I'm not explaining it well. Maybe Sterling is a good comparison? A player who plays wide enough to stretch the play up front and attack quickly, but not necessarily an out-and-out get to the byline and cross type of winger. He's also already a better finisher than Sterling

And I watch a good bit of Eredivisie (though only Ajax's games) and though standard is poor you can see a few standout players and El Ghazi is definitely one (Bazoer and Klaasen 2 others). Still scarily young. If we can get him in the summer then I hope he gets enough games next season to keep progressing as he looks capable of becoming a seriously good player.

MD1990

Sturridge in the papers again.

Seems very angry

Daniel Sturridge: 'I'm not here to have fun... Liverpool, for me, is work - and anyone who questions my integrity should take a long, hard look at themselves'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3567393/Daniel-Sturridge-m-not-fun-Liverpool-FC-work-questions-integrity-long-hard-look-themselves.html#ixzz47LlV9a8a

Harry Palmr