Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

OwaynOTT

Moreno might be lacking in game intelligence but you need players that will break themselves for the cause.
He jumped in for a header last night in their half, that he had no chance of winning and got busted. You need that desire.
Obviously, he needs to be kept away from our box.

Turtyturd

I'd say if you asked any of the other players they'd have Moreno as the first name on the team sheet. If he's on the pitch it means Klopp's most likely not shouting at them.

OwaynOTT

Turtyturd wrote: »

I'd say if you asked any of the other players they'd have Moreno as the first name on the team sheet. If he's on the pitch it means Klopp's most likely not shouting at them.

Exactly. Every great team needs an idiot to draw all the attention and ire.

Liverpool have Moreno and the Liverpool superthread has you.

DrumSteve

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Exactly. Every great team needs an idiot to draw all the attention and ire.

Liverpool have Moreno and the Liverpool superthread has you.

Turtyturd

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Exactly. Every great team needs an idiot to draw all the attention and ire.

Liverpool have Moreno and the Liverpool superthread has you.

Always said you were a poor mans hangballlouie.

murpho999

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

They go into the group stages of the CL

ShooterSF wrote: »

So what?

It's still the Johnstone Paint trophy of Europe. Oh look we won a cup that the best teams are kept out of. Whoop-de-do. At least the FA Cup is a 1st tier competition.

I don't often go to the Utd thread but above had me in fits of laughter.

klose

Amazing stuff, I thought we would still qualify even after the first leg and usually when ive that notion things go tits up. Im very excited to see what klopp does when he signs his own players and also see the current crop of players improve even more under him, even after a few months the improvement is clear to see.
On moreno, i like him but cant ignore his faults I guess we will see what intentions klopp has by who he signs, if its chillwill I guess he thinks he can improve moreno if its someone like hector maybe hes not as keen on moreno.

TitianGerm

5starpool wrote: »

Actually, it's more likely money is the deciding factor. Chances are that most players offered 70k at Liverpool with CL next season, or 100k at Utd with EL would still choose them. The Klopp factor is probably our main advantage at the moment, but it still ranks below money for most top players given a choice.

I agree with that but if two clubs offer 70k to an up and coming player and this kid knows one team won an FA Cup last year and the other won a European Competition with everything else equal, I'm sure that player would pick the European Winners.

Other things do factor in though like
Playing Time
Money
Manager
Squad
League Chances

Bandana boy

Erm on Moreno , the guy is a complete liability.
He either goes missing leaving gaps at the back to be exploited and putting the team under unnecessary pressure.
See first leg , away from home in a first leg getting caught on the break with no full back cover in the 93rd minute at 0-0 is just moronic

Or he stays in the box defending and comes up with brain farts like that shove last night.
We got away with it , it should have been a penalty and most likely would have see us knocked out of the competition.
Also see Norwich penalty for further examples.

He is an extremely likable player , plays with his heart etc but you just cannot have somebody that stupid in the team playing full back.
For me he either gets a lot smarter (might come with age ) or we ship him and I would lean towards ship him.

DrumSteve

Bandana boy wrote: »

Erm on Moreno , the guy is a complete liability.
He either goes missing leaving gaps at the back to be exploited and putting the team under unnecessary pressure.
See first leg , away from home in a first leg getting caught on the break with no full back cover in the 93rd minute at 0-0 is just moronic

Or he stays in the box defending and comes up with brain farts like that shove last night.
We got away with it , it should have been a penalty and most likely would have see us knocked out of the competition.
Also see Norwich penalty for further examples.

He is an extremely likable player , plays with his heart etc but you just cannot have somebody that stupid in the team playing full back.
For me he either gets a lot smarter (might come with age ) or we ship him and I would lean towards ship him.

Still a part of me that thinks that he would make a great attacking winger...

54and56

The difference between how we feel about Klopp and they feel about LVG is summarised nicely here - http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/louis-van-gaal-retirement-package

Isn't it great to be a Liverpool supporter right now

monkey9

Bacchus wrote: »

I agree with your overall message. European football is only a good thing for Liverpool.

However, I don't get the comparison of Istanbul vs the success in the 70s/80s. Players remember (and speak of) Istanbul because it wasn't so long ago. Most of the players weren't even born yet in the 70s... or even the 80s so how could they remember them? Also, there was European success back then too. In 20 years time, the players of Liverpool aren't going to remember Istanbul... they'll remember the back to back treble wins of the 20s :pac:

But that’s my point. That in terms of attracting players, our dominance in the 70’s and 80’s is not something they’d remember or even know or care about. That’s why we have to keep creating special nights and memories on a rolling basis to keep the club relevant to today’s players. The likes of Istanbul would have been in Torres’ head for example.

Games against Dortmund and last night go around the world and is a great advertisement for the club. Ultimately, it’s about paying top fee and wages for top players, that’s clearly going to be the main attraction as well as a show of ambition.

But it does no harm to be showing off to players in different leagues the magic of Anfield and what Liverpool is all about so being in Europe every season is important in my opinion, whether that’s the Europa or Champions League. The Europa League may seem like a nuisance at the beginning of the season, but you see what can happen the longer we stay in it. Of course, ideally it would be the Champions League that we compete in regularly, but any sort of European football shouldn’t be knocked.

Harry Palmr

I'm very smilie this morning

UEFA EL team of the week (we can only guess how much pity the compiler took for Areola to get picked)

Agent Coulson

https://twitter.com/jamespearceecho/status/728525275642875905

Klopp on Henderson: "He was really celebrating. I saw in is eyes that he believes he has a chance (for the final). Same for Divock Origi."

Ardent

Bandana boy wrote: »

Erm on Moreno , the guy is a complete liability.
He either goes missing leaving gaps at the back to be exploited and putting the team under unnecessary pressure.
See first leg , away from home in a first leg getting caught on the break with no full back cover in the 93rd minute at 0-0 is just moronic

Or he stays in the box defending and comes up with brain farts like that shove last night.
We got away with it , it should have been a penalty and most likely would have see us knocked out of the competition.
Also see Norwich penalty for further examples.

He is an extremely likable player , plays with his heart etc but you just cannot have somebody that stupid in the team playing full back.
For me he either gets a lot smarter (might come with age ) or we ship him and I would lean towards ship him.

Agree, was going to post about him last night after the game. Complete liability is right.

He hasn't a defensive bone in his body, regularly abandons his position without getting back. And when he does defend, he's completely brainless. That push last night was a shocker.

I say ship him out in the summer. Not good enough.

Boom_Bap

On Moreno, it's difficult to get a left back that has the balance of pace, dribbling, crossing, darting inside and defending.
Moreno lacks the latter but has everything else. If we get another left back in that is more focused on defending, will they be able to meet the other requirements?
Luckily Clyne on the other side seems to have most of it except the intelligence in the final third.
Moreno as a high starting position from a kick out, and he can quickly get back into a normal position, he just needs to improve on what he can do back there.
On a positive note, Brad Smith seems to have it all, just needs to get experience and to stay consistent.
Full backs are a problem in every team, I dont think it's as big of a problem in ours.

Pyjamarama

Ardent wrote: »

Agree, was going to post about him last night after the game. Complete liability is right.

He hasn't a defensive bone in his body, regularly abandons his position without getting back. And when he does defend, he's completely brainless. That push last night was a shocker.

I say ship him out in the summer. Not good enough.

And replace him with who? He's easily in the top 4 left backs in the league. If we can get someone better BRILLIANT, go for it. I'm just not sure we can. Tbh there's really only Azpilicueta i'd have over him who's starting the premiership.

He does have mental moments, i'll never argue (and couldn't obv) that he doesn't but he offers us a constant outlet on the left and constantly creates space for Coutinho with his overlaps. Massively underrated as his brainfarts are usually calamities. Would be good if his keeper could bail him out the odd time like other fullbacks do.

Remember when people were calling for Flanno and Smith to get the start over him... did you see how much worse we/they were? It looks like we're signing Chilwell anyway but I doubt he's being brought in to be an instant starter. I'd be shocked if Moreno gets sold.

Harry Palmr

Chillwell and Cresswell are both strongly linked, plus Jonas Hector.

paulie21

Firmino left out of Brazil squad for Copa, Coutinho included

Pyjamarama

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Chillwell and Cresswell are both strongly linked, plus Jonas Hector.

I think we'll add one alright. For competition but we'd be mad to sell Moreno imo.

BullBlackNova

Pyjamarama wrote: »

And replace him with who? He's easily in the top 4 left backs in the league. If we can get someone better BRILLIANT, go for it. I'm just not sure we can. Tbh there's really only Azpilicueta i'd have over him who's starting the premiership.

He does have mental moments, i'll never argue (and couldn't obv) that he doesn't but he offers us a constant outlet on the left and constantly creates space for Coutinho with his overlaps. Massively underrated as his brainfarts are usually calamities. Would be good if his keeper could bail him out the odd time like other fullbacks do.

Remember when people were calling for Flanno and Smith to get the start over him... did you see how much worse we/they were? It looks like we're signing Chilwell anyway but I doubt he's being brought in to be an instant starter. I'd be shocked if Moreno gets sold.

This is the same Alberto Moreno who pushed a guy over in the box last night and could've given away a penalty? And who was out of position for the goal in the first leg? and that's just from the semi-final...

I don't want to write him off. he has his positives, but let's be realistic - he's a weak link in the defence. He's regularly out of position and this causes issues not just for him but other players covering him.

I wouldn't say sell, but to claim he's in 'the top 4 left-backs in the league' is just untrue.

Christian Fuchs, Danny Rose, Nacho Monreal, Aaron Cresswell, Ryan Bertrand and Cesar Azpilicueta are all comfortably better.

Kolarov offers more going forward, Clichy more defensively, though both have major flaws in their game. You could even go as far to say that Erik Pieters, Charlie Daniels and Nathan Ake have been more consistent than Moreno when playing this season.

EDIT: I love Moreno's attitude and enthusiasm, but he's not reliable.

monkey9

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Chillwell and Cresswell are both strongly linked, plus Jonas Hector.

I'd love to sign Cresswell. Far better than Moreno.

hefferboi

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I'm very smilie this morning

UEFA EL team of the week (we can only guess how much pity the compiler took for Areola to get picked)

Funnily enough, I though Areola was by far their best player last night. He dropped on 2 but they were frees anyway. He actually pulled off a few nice saves.

citytillidie

Turtyturd wrote: »

If citytilidie reads this, how big of a 'f*ck you' are we giving to the Italian teams by going so far in the competition?

As it stands now

3 England 15.250 16.428 16.785 13.571 14.250 76.284 1/ 8
4 Italy 11.357 14.416 14.166 19.000 11.500 70.439 6

For starting next season as now
3 England 16.428 16.785 13.571 14.250 0.000 61.034 0
4 Italy 14.416 14.166 19.000 11.500 0.000 59.082 0

Slattsy

Agent Coulson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jamespearceecho/status/728525275642875905

I don't think we'd be in the final if Henderson was fit..

happyoutscan

Slattsy wrote: »

I don't think we'd be in the final if Henderson was fit..

No point in getting into the ins and outs of why - as it's been done to death before - but I agree with you 100% (and it's easy to do so).

Turtyturd

Would be behind Rick Grimes to get a start imo.

5starpool

I'm guessing we'll play a much changed team for Watford and West Brom, but a strong enough team vs Chelsea next midweek. I know it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, but I'd like us to not tail off in those league games before the final. 7 from 9 would be good, with us winning the 2 home games and drawing away to West Brom on the last day.

gafferino

paulie21 wrote: »

Firmino left out of Brazil squad for Copa, Coutinho included

He could be included in the Olympic squad however. If so he'd miss the start of the season.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Turtyturd wrote: »

Win, win, win. Liverpool win with the most Klopp performance in the history of Klopp performances. The German Captain of the Liverpool U boat caught the yellow submarine in his sights and unloaded three torpedoes which blew it to pieces. In Denis Suarez is a man who had the Suarez name bestowed upon him but in reality he is not fit to carry such a title and would be best served to change it by deed poll. However in red we witnessed 14 warriors more than worthy of inheriting the name but instead they chose to cement each of their own names in the history books.

Do i hear a HALLELUJAH?????

Knex. wrote: »

I never want a season without European football again.

It's like drinking beer with no head on it, grand but tastes flat.

Christ but that was some match last night. I'm still high as a kite after it.

At this moment in time, if Klopp decides to play Sturridge in goals and Mig up top, I think he has shown he deserves the right to do so.

And Can, Emre, you magnificent beast.....

wicorthered

Anyone entered in the ballot for the final? It'll be interesting to see how many tickets are available!

Kimbot

wicorthered wrote: »

Anyone entered in the ballot for the final? It'll be interesting to see how many tickets are available!

Liverpool have been allocated 10,500 tickets with 1500 already taken up by the club so only 9000 left for LFC fans.

Utopia Parkway

Pretty sure Moreno will be one of the first players replaced in the Summer. Klopp was going off his nut at him last night on the sideline. I mean pretty much every game now there comes a moment in defence when you go "where the eff is Moreno"? He just constantly wanders upfield towards the ball and the centre-backs have to race over to cover for him. We never have that problem on the other side as Clyne is always where he should be. He was blessed not to have conceded the world's dumbest penalty last night. His decision making is absolutely atrocious. I'm not against keeping him as a squad member but I'll be shocked if we don't buy a LB in the Summer.

BorneTobyWilde

Last time when game ended and everything was going down, the joy of the win, this thread was on page ''96'' , at least for me it was on my pc.
I thought that was pretty cool.

daithijjj

We cant afford players who did what he did away at Norwich for example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qybpKETBQo

Or what he did away in Dortmund near the end of the game. Should have got a red.





The amount of times he should be in position but is in a different parish is countless, we have been lucky not to concede more because of it. Im afraid people are using that luck we have had as a tool to bolster his reputation because the lad doesnt have it upstairs unfortunately. I think most of us with an opinion like mine would change their mind if we saw some kind of 'learning' from past mistakes but there hasnt been.

MD1990

Its not so much Moreno will or has to be replaced. Just that a LB will be bought & then compete for that spot. We will hopefully have lots of games so there will be rotation. Moreno would have to improve defensively I would think to be in the first 11 though.

Pyjamarama

daithijjj wrote: »

We cant afford players who did what he did away at Norwich for example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qybpKETBQo

Or what he did away in Dortmund near the end of the game. Should have got a red.





The amount of times he should be in position but is in a different parish is countless, we have been lucky not to concede more because of it. Im afraid people are using that luck we have had as a tool to bolster his reputation because the lad doesnt have it upstairs unfortunately. I think most of us with an opinion like mine would change their mind if we saw some kind of 'learning' from past mistakes but there hasnt been.

You could grab still for any player and make them look insane. Not that Moreno isn't a bit nuts. He clearly is. I just think he offers a ton to our attacking game. I think Klopp knows that too.

I remember tons of posts in this thread about how Flanno or Smith should be getting the start over him. Madness as both have shown they're not up to the task (Flanno never will be, Smith is still young). He's not remotely as bad as some people think he is. He's FAR from perfect but if he's starting for us next year i'll be fine with it.

J Mysterio

Can't believe Firmino not selected by Brazil. He's getting better and better and better. Terrific last night.

9 goals, 8 assists in 29 Premier League games.
In his first season. 1 goal, 3 assists in Europe.

BullBlackNova

J Mysterio wrote: »

Can't believe Firmino not selected by Brazil. He's getting better and better and better. Terrific last night.

9 goals, 8 assists in 29 Premier League games.
In his first season. 1 goal, 3 assists in Europe.

Neymar and Oscar were also omitted. The thought among journalists is that Brazil are prioritising the Olympics.

I wouldn't take it as a "Firmino being dropped" angle, but more than he is being saved for the other comp.

gafferino

J Mysterio wrote: »

Can't believe Firmino not selected by Brazil. He's getting better and better and better. Terrific last night.

9 goals, 8 assists in 29 Premier League games.
In his first season. 1 goal, 3 assists in Europe.

There was a lot of high profile players left out. Oscar, David Luis for example. Could be picked for the olympics which would put him out until the 20th August.

slingerz

Pyjamarama wrote: »

You could grab still for any player and make them look insane. Not that Moreno isn't a bit nuts. He clearly is. I just think he offers a ton to our attacking game. I think Klopp knows that too.

I remember tons of posts in this thread about how Flanno or Smith should be getting the start over him. Madness as both have shown they're not up to the task (Flanno never will be, Smith is still young). He's not remotely as bad as some people think he is. He's FAR from perfect but if he's starting for us next year i'll be fine with it.

He was well up to the task in the 13/14 season.

Pyjamarama

slingerz wrote: »

He was well up to the task in the 13/14 season.

I don't think he was. He's a limited player and a limited athlete. If he wasn't a local lad he wouldn't even be in the conversation. He offers pretty much zero going forward (in general obv he'll have moments, he's a pro footballer after all). We conceded a boat load of goals that season too if memory serves. I wish Flanno was the 2nd coming of Steve Staunton but I'd be surprised if he ends up playing premier league football in the end. He's a championship player imo.

Knex*

I used to be firmly in the Moreno will develop camp, but I do think he's just a little too dumb to do so. Well, at a level we require anyhow. He'll never develop the game intelligence, and in many aspects, he's a worse version of Glen Johnson.

I do love his enthusiasm and heart, though. His footballing brain, on the other hand, is just not at the required level.

corwill

Knex. wrote: »

I used to be firmly in the Moreno will develop camp, but I do think he's just a little too dumb to do so. Well, at a level we require anyhow. He'll never develop the game intelligence, and in many aspects, he's a worse version of Glen Johnson.

I do love his enthusiasm and heart, though. His footballing brain, on the other hand, is just not at the required level.

Who was it against this year when he headed back across the 6 yard box to avoid the corner? He got away with it, iirc, but I completely gave up on him as a defender at that point.

daithijjj

Pyjamarama wrote: »

You could grab still for any player and make them look insane. Not that Moreno isn't a bit nuts. He clearly is. I just think he offers a ton to our attacking game. I think Klopp knows that too.

I remember tons of posts in this thread about how Flanno or Smith should be getting the start over him. Madness as both have shown they're not up to the task (Flanno never will be, Smith is still young). He's not remotely as bad as some people think he is. He's FAR from perfect but if he's starting for us next year i'll be fine with it.

I think Klopp is using some gargantuan levels of diplomacy with some of the players at the moment because he has no option but to do so. (He shouldnt have to shout 'PLEASE' from the sideline like he did at Villareal). We will have to wait and see who he rates because he has no options in certain areas. He has options for Ibe, if he didnt we could be saying the same thing about Ibe as some do about Moreno. I'd be astonished if he didnt get a left back in, i believe that would not be as understudy to Moreno.

Not sure he gives us that much going forward either. Aside from the Newcastle game recently he would have 1 goal and 2 assists this season in the league. Moreno is capable of some 'interesting' forays going forward but they have to yield better results to be of any use. He will never be good enough for where we want to be if he doesnt start showing intelligence in his play. The problem for us is that the better the opposition are they will pick him as a massive weak link and i hope its not in the final.

monkey9

daithijjj wrote: »

We cant afford players who did what he did away at Norwich for example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qybpKETBQo

Or what he did away in Dortmund near the end of the game. Should have got a red.





The amount of times he should be in position but is in a different parish is countless, we have been lucky not to concede more because of it. Im afraid people are using that luck we have had as a tool to bolster his reputation because the lad doesnt have it upstairs unfortunately. I think most of us with an opinion like mine would change their mind if we saw some kind of 'learning' from past mistakes but there hasnt been.

Not forgetting a stupid tackle he made in the League Cup final that could well have been a penalty. He's an absolute liability. He seems like a decent bloke, but he's a clown on the pitch. This era's Djimi Traore.

5starpool

gafferino wrote: »

There was a lot of high profile players left out. Oscar, David Luis for example. Could be picked for the olympics which would put him out until the 20th August.

Balls, that's not good, it's worse than the alternative. He won't be available until September for us then. At least both of them won't be gone until then.

K-9

Boom_Bap wrote: »

On Moreno, it's difficult to get a left back that has the balance of pace, dribbling, crossing, darting inside and defending.
Moreno lacks the latter but has everything else. If we get another left back in that is more focused on defending, will they be able to meet the other requirements?
Luckily Clyne on the other side seems to have most of it except the intelligence in the final third.
Moreno as a high starting position from a kick out, and he can quickly get back into a normal position, he just needs to improve on what he can do back there.
On a positive note, Brad Smith seems to have it all, just needs to get experience and to stay consistent.
Full backs are a problem in every team, I dont think it's as big of a problem in ours.

Smith from my bit of reading isn't that highly regarded by those who watch him regularly.

ush

Jose Enrique to start in Basel then.

Pyjamarama

daithijjj wrote: »

I think Klopp is using some gargantuan levels of diplomacy with some of the players at the moment because he has no option but to do so. (He shouldnt have to shout 'PLEASE' from the sideline like he did at Villareal). We will have to wait and see who he rates because he has no options in certain areas. He has options for Ibe, if he didnt we could be saying the same thing about Ibe as some do about Moreno. I'd be astonished if he didnt get a left back in, i believe that would not be as understudy to Moreno.

Not sure he gives us that much going forward either. Aside from the Newcastle game recently he would have 1 goal and 2 assists this season in the league. Moreno is capable of some 'interesting' forays going forward but they have to yield better results to be of any use. He will never be good enough for where we want to be if he doesnt start showing intelligence in his play. The problem for us is that the better the opposition are they will pick him as a massive weak link and i hope its not in the final.

If we can sign a Rodriguez or someone like that then i'm all for it. No reason I wouldn't want a better player there but we have bigger priorities imo. We need a new keeper, we need someone to partner Emre in the middle and we need another option, maybe 2, in attacking positions (striker or winger). These are all more important positions than left back on the pitch and imo are way more important.

People keep saying stuff like "to be at the level we need to be" and seemingly want us to replace 8 starters. I've seen calls for Sakho, Lallana, Firmino, Lovern, Milner, Henderson, Sturridge to all be replaced and thats not counting the ones who genuinely have to be. We need to add 1 or 2 really quality players to what we have there now. Not replace the entire team. We don't need to finish ahead of Barca lads. There is no great team in this league. If we had Suarez we'd have walked it this year. We'd have prob walked it with a peak Stevie, or Nando for that matter. We have the manager and we have a good squad thats honestly not a million miles away from being the bup there with the best. If this summers business could turn Coutinho into the 3rd best player in the team instead of the best we'll be there or there abouts. That imo should be the priority and all the resources should be going towards it. Especially if we manage to win the Europa. Getting in a better left back won't win us the league.