Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

jasonb

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Ya but you're looking at it from the viewpoint of when there was 14 games left, now I don't know where Liverpool were at that stage in the league but I'm going to guess that the title wasn't really on at that stage? But they go on a miraculous run and manage to put themselves in pole position to win.

You mention how it would have taken 13 wins and a draw from the last 14 games or whatever, but remember they did manage to win that first 11 games. That part was accomplished. It was done and the points were in the bag.

So they were in the position that they had won 11 games in a row, 7 more points needed to win the title. Next up is a 2nd string (and that's being generous to a few of the geniuses that played that day) Chelsea team at home, Palace away and I can't remember who the last game was but I think it was a relatively straightforward one at home?

The bookies made Liverpool 1/7 favourites at this stage. 1/7 is probably about what they'd be to beat a Championship team at home. They couldn't do it. That's a bottle job.

Of course if you look at it from the point of view of when there was 14 games left and there was little chance of winning it then it's not a bottle job, but that ignores the fact that with 3 games to go they were 1/7 favourites and failed to win it. Bottled.

Your argument is the equivalent of saying that because no one expected Leicester to win the league with 38 games left that had they given it away when they went 7 points clear there a few weeks ago that it wouldn't have been seen as them bottling it. Of course it would have.

Yeah, fair point, apart from how difficult it is to win 13 out of 14, you're right that the 11 wins in a row were done and dusted. So really, to win the league Liverpool had to win 2 and draw 1 of their last three, and instead we won 1, drew 1 and lost 1.

Maybe I'm biased, but I still don't see that as bottling it. It's not like we were miles ahead, it was always the case that we couldn't afford to lose a game, as Man City had a game in hand. Bookies odds don't really mean anything in my opinion. If they did, the 'favourite' would always win in every sport.

As for Chelsea that day being a 2nd string side, that's just not true. Mourinho played it up that way, but this is their starting 11 the day:

Mark Schwarzer
Branislav Ivanovic
César Azpilicueta
Tomas Kalas
Ashley Cole
Nemanja Matic
Frank Lampard
John Obi Mikel
Demba Ba
André Schürrle
Mohamed Salah

Schwarzer and Kalas could be called 'second string', and maybe Salah, but the rest were all well established in the first team for the PL I think.

The league was definitely lost that day, once Chelsea got their second in injury time I knew it was gone. I think tactics can definitely be questioned, but considering how well those tactics had worked that season, you could hardly blame Rodgers for going with them. If he had changed the game plan and 'accepted' a draw against Chelsea (though playing for a draw is never a good idea - Arsenal in '89 anyone?), we'd then *have* to beat Palace away, which was by no means a lock. Either way his decision would have been questioned (unless we'd won the league of course).

J.

Sappy404

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Ya but you're looking at it from the viewpoint of when there was 14 games left, now I don't know where Liverpool were at that stage in the league but I'm going to guess that the title wasn't really on at that stage? But they go on a miraculous run and manage to put themselves in pole position to win.

You mention how it would have taken 13 wins and a draw from the last 14 games or whatever, but remember they did manage to win that first 11 games. That part was accomplished. It was done and the points were in the bag.

So they were in the position that they had won 11 games in a row, 7 more points needed to win the title. Next up is a 2nd string (and that's being generous to a few of the geniuses that played that day) Chelsea team at home, Palace away and I can't remember who the last game was but I think it was a relatively straightforward one at home?

The bookies made Liverpool 1/7 favourites at this stage. 1/7 is probably about what they'd be to beat a Championship team at home. They couldn't do it. That's a bottle job.

Of course if you look at it from the point of view of when there was 14 games left and there was little chance of winning it then it's not a bottle job, but that ignores the fact that with 3 games to go they were 1/7 favourites and failed to win it. Bottled.

Your argument is the equivalent of saying that because no one expected Leicester to win the league with 38 games left that had they given it away when they went 7 points clear there a few weeks ago that it wouldn't have been seen as them bottling it. Of course it would have.

After beating Man City we were 7 points clear of them with 4 games left, but we were only 2 ahead of Chelsea and City had 2 games in hand. Sunderland then drew with City and beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. We then won 3-2 at Norwich.

People started saying it was inevitable there and then. We were 5 clear of Chelsea on 80 pts with 3 games left each, but City were on 71 with 5 games left. Beacause of goal difference, we needed 7 points from the last 3 games to make sure, and we got 4. It was a bottle job alright, just not to the same extent as Newcastle in 1996 (12 points clear in Jan), United in 2012 (8 points clear with 5 games to go) etc., and I would point to Arsenal spending several months at the top only to fall away badly as soon as people started suggesting they were favourites. And that's the thing - as soon as these teams start getting talked about as champions in waiting, the pressure sinks in and they wobble.

For the record, the Chelsea defeat is where the league was lost IMO. It felt like a hammer-blow at the time but the 3-3 against Palace didn't make much difference in the end.

Washington Irving

Our newest Mr. Glass has broken rib doing God knows what and is out for the German Cup final tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/SkySportNewsHD/status/733664256806227968


Sky Sport News @SkySportNewsHD:
+++ BREAKING +++
Rippenbruch: Mario Götze fällt für das Pokalfinale aus. EM wohl nicht in Gefahr. #ssnhd

Something like: "Broken rib: Mario Gotze out for cup final. Probably ok for Euros*."

Chesty08

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

Chesty08 wrote: »

Don't think he will be any use tbh. Bar his speed he hasn't shown anything. He is terrible on the ball & never beats a man

Never beats a man? I recall a few instances where he has beaten men. He is deceptively quick, IMO.

Nothing deceptively quick, I know he is quick. He aint quick with the ball at his feet though. I cant recall any of significant note.

Sappy404 wrote: »

Chesty08 wrote: »

Don't think he will be any use tbh. Bar his speed he hasn't shown anything. He is terrible on the ball & never beats a man

Quick, great feet, intelligent, built like a tank... what's not to like?

He has put on a few kg, was a string bean before that. If he is a tank what is someone like Lukaku?
The other night he ran up the line towards corner flag & was knocked off it with minimal fuss.

I did mention he was quick.

He is not a top level striker in my eyes, he is backup and should be No.3/No.4 striking option for a team with any title aspirations.

Talisman

NukaCola wrote: »

Brendan Rodgers completely turning his back on super fast attacking football and returning to his Swansea possession based wankery cost him his job.

Danny's injury and Suarez leaving made it harder to do, but bringing in players like Balotelli/Lambert/Benteke as attackers indicates to me he was moving away from what made us dangerous to a more possession based easy to play against tactic.

He may never have been able to recreate the attacking tactic without Danny and Suarez.

I don't believe that a return to the Swansea style was always the plan. The performances in the 2014/15 pre-season and against Southampton and Tottenham were of the type we had seen from Liverpool in the 2013/14 season. Lambert was a plan B forward and barely featured early on. Balotelli was brought in to play with Sturridge and they showed promise in the Tottenham game.

Once Sturridge got injured, it became the one up front tactic. We didn't have any forward players suitable for the lone striker role yet Rodgers persisted with it, and most often it was Sterling. If Swansea was the template then Lambert up front with Sterling and Balotelli as the wide winger/inside forwards would have been the lineup but that never happened. Benteke is another player that is not suited to the lone forward role, he said it himself in interviews while at Aston Villa.

At the start of the 2015/16 season it looked like we were go to play a new brand of football under Rodgers. The back line were defensively more solid. Clyne is consistent which is much more than could be said for the player he replaced. Gomez didn't offer a wide attacking option like Moreno but he did appear to have defensive discipline. Moreno did okay as a wide player further forward. In midfield we had Henderson and Milner, I was sceptical that it could work but it wasn't bad - they were both willing work horses. The attacking midfield area was where it went wrong - the players were industrious trying to win the ball back quickly but there was no creativity. Lallana was also getting in the way of the other players, without Sterling we were missing a consistent performer. Benteke was expected to feed off of through balls rather than percentage balls from crosses.

We were solid against Stoke, had two moments of luck against Bournemouth and for the first 45 minutes against Arsenal looked like we were going to destroy them. However as we have witnessed throughout this season our attacking midfielders leave an awful lot to be desired when it comes to finishing chances. In the second half we had to weather the storm but it was a credible 0-0 draw. Against West Ham, the team was undone by the inexperience of Joe Gomez.

After the West Ham game Rodgers went back to his Swansea tactic with Danny Ings and Roberto Firminio as wide players. On paper it looked a positive 4-3-3 but in reality it was 4-5-1 and devoid of creativity. It could merely be coincidence but before the Arsenal game, Sturridge had been expected to return in September for the Man Utd game, a week later there was a rumour he wouldn't return until the end of September.

The West Ham game was the first indication that Gomez wasn't ready for the first team role, certainly not at left full back. Lanzini took advantage of him to score the opening goal in the first few minutes. In the next game against Man Utd he conceded a penalty in the manner we expect from Moreno.

Wednesday night highlighted the same issues with the team that we saw under Rodgers. There is a lot of work still to do in order to mould the players into a Klopp team.

BorneTobyWilde

Shirley Moreno has to be second choice, the Klopplogical thing to do it strengthen what's clearly vulnerable areas. What I don't get is fact Klopp encourages Moreno to do what he does, bomb forward. The funny thing is Moreno hasn't a thing to show for all these forward incursions into the opposing half.

corwill

fyfe79 wrote: »

- wrong tactics as someone already stated -

They were the wrong tactics, but largely dictated by available midfield personnel. I don't think we had the ability to play a defensive, possession based game that day, we were down to the bare bones.

Chesty08

jasonb wrote: »

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Ya but you're looking at it from the viewpoint of when there was 14 games left, now I don't know where Liverpool were at that stage in the league but I'm going to guess that the title wasn't really on at that stage? But they go on a miraculous run and manage to put themselves in pole position to win.

You mention how it would have taken 13 wins and a draw from the last 14 games or whatever, but remember they did manage to win that first 11 games. That part was accomplished. It was done and the points were in the bag.

So they were in the position that they had won 11 games in a row, 7 more points needed to win the title. Next up is a 2nd string (and that's being generous to a few of the geniuses that played that day) Chelsea team at home, Palace away and I can't remember who the last game was but I think it was a relatively straightforward one at home?

The bookies made Liverpool 1/7 favourites at this stage. 1/7 is probably about what they'd be to beat a Championship team at home. They couldn't do it. That's a bottle job.

Of course if you look at it from the point of view of when there was 14 games left and there was little chance of winning it then it's not a bottle job, but that ignores the fact that with 3 games to go they were 1/7 favourites and failed to win it. Bottled.

Your argument is the equivalent of saying that because no one expected Leicester to win the league with 38 games left that had they given it away when they went 7 points clear there a few weeks ago that it wouldn't have been seen as them bottling it. Of course it would have.

Yeah, fair point, apart from how difficult it is to win 13 out of 14, you're right that the 11 wins in a row were done and dusted. So really, to win the league Liverpool had to win 2 and draw 1 of their last three, and instead we won 1, drew 1 and lost 1.

Maybe I'm biased, but I still don't see that as bottling it. It's not like we were miles ahead, it was always the case that we couldn't afford to lose a game, as Man City had a game in hand. Bookies odds don't really mean anything in my opinion. If they did, the 'favourite' would always win in every sport.

As for Chelsea that day being a 2nd string side, that's just not true. Mourinho played it up that way, but this is their starting 11 the day:

Mark Schwarzer
Branislav Ivanovic
C sar Azpilicueta
Tomas Kalas
Ashley Cole
Nemanja Matic
Frank Lampard
John Obi Mikel
Demba Ba
Andr Sch rrle
Mohamed Salah

Schwarzer and Kalas could be called 'second string', and maybe Salah, but the rest were all well established in the first team for the PL I think.

The league was definitely lost that day, once Chelsea got their second in injury time I knew it was gone. I think tactics can definitely be questioned, but considering how well those tactics had worked that season, you could hardly blame Rodgers for going with them. If he had changed the game plan and 'accepted' a draw against Chelsea (though playing for a draw is never a good idea - Arsenal in '89 anyone?), we'd then *have* to beat Palace away, which was by no means a lock. Either way his decision would have been questioned (unless we'd won the league of course).

J.

Look at Leicester. Ranieri altered there approach and turned their defence into one of the best in the league post Xmas.

BR ignored this side and yes it did ultimately cost us and rightfully so he should take responsibility for getting his tactics wrong.

I'll still never understand how in a game for the PL, (where a draw would suffice), that Stevie G was last man back near on the half way line, it really does beggar belief!

xabi

5starpool wrote: »

Was this a serious comment?

Yes, the spatial awareness area of my brain is on holidays at the moment.

Talisman

Chesty08 wrote: »

I'll still never understand how in a game for the PL, (where a draw would suffice), that Stevie G was last man back near on the half way line, it really does beggar belief!

Gerrard was playing the same quarter back role as he had been in the previous games, no-one had a problem with it then. It's only an issue because he failed to control the ball. In a way, I was glad that it was him rather than any other Liverpool player because of the inevitable back lash. Can you imagine the witch hunt if it was any other player? They would never have been seen again in a Liverpool shirt.

price690

Benteke would be an absolutely brilliant signing for West Ham, if I was Slaven Bilic i'd be all over this.

Twice the player of Carroll, he would consistently score 20+ goals per season.

Wouldn't be a bad replacement for Lukaku at Everton either should he depart. Benteke is a better player than Lukaku in my opinion, Lukaku has benefitted from playing week in week out the last 2 seasons.

The argument is always put forward that we don't play the style of football to get the best out of Benteke. And that the team will suffer if he is the main man and the team is set up to service him. The guy will score goals and if he played every week you would be looking at a 20-25 goal a season striker.

Now the alternative for us seems to be playing 3 attacking midfielders who are seen as being more fluid. I would argue that these guys are persisted with even though there is very little goal threat from them on a consistent basis. Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino struggle when opposition make a conscious effort to get men behind the ball. They don't possess any real pace either.

The Man City away game seems to be a template for how we want to play, the 3 lads were unplayable but that performance has been the exception rather than the norm.

When Benteke has been in the team its a case that our goal output has been lower, but the guy has also scored the winner in 1-0 and 2-1 wins on a good few occasions.

Often we are forced wide and whip crosses into the box anyway and Benteke is not used enough to capitalise on this.

I think the guy suffers from this modern interpretation of having to be seen to promote playing the ball on the ground, and making an effort to play football as opposed to hitting it long. Its like he is seen as being an anti-football teams centre forward akin to Andy Carroll and Peter Crouch.

I think this is grossly unfair, he has alot more technical ability then he is given credit for. He has been a passenger in some games yes, but so have Firmino, Lallana and Coutinho. They don't pick up half the amount of slack though when they are anonymous as they are seen with fitting the teams "style".

Umaro

I assume it was posted here at the time, but Gerrard spoke about Rodgers HT team talk in that Chelsea game:

“Look,” Brendan said, imploring the other players, “if anyone deserves to be bailed out it’s him.” His finger pointed at me. “Your captain needs you to all pay him back. The amount of times he’s pulled this club out of a mess and changed impossible situations and got players out of trouble are the stuff of legend. Now it’s time you repay him. You’ve got forty-five minutes to do it.” Brendan looked at me. “Stevie, forget it,” he said. “It happens. Let’s all go out and win this game. We can do it.”

Which I think was the right thing to say in that circumstance. But then Gerrard came out in the 2nd half determined to even the scores up himself - I can't be the only one who remembers him blazing 10 shots wide from outside the area.

Our captain lost his composure in that second half. I don't even remember any moments where we came close to equalising.

Thats the game where we lost the league - rival fans will bring up Crystanbul but thats really here nor there.

NukaCola

Tactics were fine against Chelsea......we played our game as normal......Gerrard went to receive the ball the same way he did a hundred times or more that season and slipped and Mignolet got nutmegged, just unlucky........Chelsea had done zero up to that point.......Had Chelsea somehow set up to hit us on the break and caught us numerous times due to the high tempo attack we had then maybe you'd have a point, but they didn't.......a change in tactics would have us rely more on our defensive attributes of which we had little....tactics were spot on.

NukaCola

price690 wrote: »

Benteke would be an absolutely brilliant signing for West Ham, if I was Slaven Bilic i'd be all over this.

Twice the player of Carroll, he would consistently score 20+ goals per season.

He has only scored over 20 goals once in his entire career.....are you saying he would 20+ goals in West Hams team? West Hams top scorer this season had 9 league goals, 10 the year before, 7 the year before.....

Bentekes a decent player but for us he has trouble passing the ball the majority of the time....

Nerdlingr

Umaro wrote: »

Which I think was the right thing to say in that circumstance. But then Gerrard came out in the 2nd half determined to even the scores up himself - I can't be the only one who remembers him blazing 10 shots wide from outside the area.

So thats where Coutinho gets it from ! :P

garra

xabi wrote: »

Looks like the pitch has been re-positioned, lots of room to its left and between it and the old stand.

Reckon not, they are just using the left side of pitch in photo for access to stand

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

I don't think we will spending much (net wise) to be honest with Benteke, Lucas, Skrtel and Allen likely to leave. Surely that will generate 40-50m. Gotze will probably be the biggest outlay if we can pull it off and even that is reported at just £20m.

I don't see the need to spend £100m again.

We have a decent squad imo

Replace that 4 with two on paper starters who hit the ground running over the course of next season akin to how Firmino has and also upgrade on Mignolet and we should be well capable of challenging for Top4.

The PL is quite competitive now, more so than ever it seems to a decent Top4 challenge and a final in one of the two cups is the target imo, add in some luck and we could have a great season.

NukaCola

Looks like Rodgers got the Celtic job.
Hope it works out well for him.

mosstin

NukaCola wrote: »

Looks like Rodgers got the Celtic job.
Hope it works out well for him.

Green and white hoops would look wonderful on Moreno.

spockety

mosstin wrote: »

Green and white hoops would look wonderful on Moreno.

Sorry but he was a transfer committee signing, not a Rodgers one...

Benteke on the other hand...

ricero

Can see joe allen going to celtic. Im not joking saying this

Harry Palmr

Celtic could never afford Allen Benteke

Turtyturd

Whatever about the relationship between Allen and 'The Rodgers' I would hope he has more respect for himself than to go to the SPL.

mosstin

spockety wrote: »

Sorry but he was a transfer committee signing, not a Rodgers one...

Benteke on the other hand...

I don't give a fuck who bought him. He'd fit right in at Celtic.

rob316

Turtyturd wrote: »

Whatever about the relationship between Allen and 'The Rodgers' I would hope he has more respect for himself than to go to the SPL.

Just appointed. Playing it safe after Liverpool, but he will be expected to do more than win the domestic competition, I reckon champions league group stages is a big target they have set him, trouble is he was absolutely hopeless in European competition for us.

klose

Rangers first season back in the Scottish top flight, if they pick up the title in their first season with Rodgers in charge of Celtic his reputation would be fairly in tatters. In the words of Craig Bellamy I wish him well....

Agent Coulson

Jaysus the SPL that's some come down but just about his level aright.

martyos121

12 month rolling contract, I know it's a system Celtic like but if they had any faith in him at all they'd give him a three year deal. Doesn't bode well IMO. At least Rodgers knows if he makes a balls of this there's little to no severance in it for him, no safety net.

YouTookMyName

Psst,Brenno. Can I interest you in a slightly shop-soiled goalie? A left back with a turnip for a brain?A limited midfielder? Your choice......

rob316

Augeo wrote: »

We have a decent squad imo

Replace that 4 with two on paper starters who hit the ground running over the course of next season akin to how Firmino has and also upgrade on Mignolet and we should be well capable of challenging for Top4.

The PL is quite competitive now, more so than ever it seems to a decent Top4 challenge and a final in one of the two cups is the target imo, add in some luck and we could have a great season.

We could of managed a challenge for Top 4 this season sure, in the closing games we fielded weakened sides and only finished 7 points off.

Without the "distraction" of European football I'm expecting a title challenge to be honest, be in the mix with 10 games to go kind of challenge. We don't stand to loose any of our best players this summer for a change and the core of the side will be quite settled. Little midweek football so there should be plenty of time in training to focus on the PL games ahead.

I know we had to take focus off the league to take the chance of winning the EL but I'm genuinely gutted there will be no European football at Anfield next season. I loved the Europa League campaign this season and will be very slow to belittle it again. Just watch the sides who did qualify for it in the EPL, discard it for league position. A European night at Anfield next season would have been a sit to behold under the lights with 8,500 more supporters.

Turtyturd

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Psst,Brenno. Can I interest you in a slightly shop-soiled goalie? A left back with a turnip for a brain?A limited midfielder? Your choice......

Could only see him taking Henderson out of those options.

Turtyturd

How long before we start hearing about Sturridge's Celtic DNA?

J Mysterio

NukaCola wrote: »

Looks like Rodgers got the Celtic job.
Hope it works out well for him.

Great appointment from Celtic.

Pyjamarama

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Jaysus the SPL that's some come down but just about his level aright.

Rodgers level? I hate this attitude. The man came closer than anyone to leading us to our the PL title and the way some fans on here speak about him is a disgrace. That season was one of the most entertaining in the 30 years i've been a liverpool fan. He'll always be someone I have a ton of respect for even if it ended the way it did. Unless you think Suarez did it all on his own which is an interesting take as we had him for quite some time before that season.

J Mysterio

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Jaysus the SPL that's some come down but just about his level aright.

FFS, give him some credit. Thats a really vindictive statement.

SuperTortoise

He'll be back in for Allen before the weeks out!

mosstin

mosstin wrote: »

Green and white hoops would look wonderful on Moreno.

Don't think Rodgers is a fan of Moreno.

Managing Celtic is not a bad job, huge fanbase & media coverage. It's no doubt a step down than managing a team that he led to 2nd in the EPL but it's not akin to taking on a role with Dundee Utd etc.

mosstin

Augeo wrote: »

Don't think Rodgers is a fan of Moreno.

Few are.

8-10

Balotelli in Glasgow would be quite the sight to behold. Do it Brendan!

Washington Irving

8-10 wrote: »

Balotelli in Glasgow would be quite the sight to behold. Do it Brendan!

I think they would love him. Just imagine the shenanigans he'd get up to...

emo72

the worse thing is I'll have no excuses to go out for a midweek beer session. i only like going out watching our lot. not gonna enjoy watching leicster vs kiev. just means nothing.

mosstin

Washington Irving wrote: »

I think they would love him. Just imagine the shenanigans he'd get up to...

Doing a Souness and sprinting on the pitch at Ibrox after a derby victory and planting Ally McCoist head first into the centre circle.

K-9

The problem is the season is nearly over in August if they don't qualify for the CL group stage.

Agent Coulson

https://twitter.com/henrywinter/status/733693687813791744

Kerrigooney

Agent Coulson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/henrywinter/status/733693687813791744

That's 8 charges now I think...big fine incoming.

martyos121

Agent Coulson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/henrywinter/status/733693687813791744

They charge us despite not implementing any segregation between supporters. They can go fcuk themselves quite frankly. The flares are a different story.

sReq | uTeK

martyos121 wrote: »

They charge us despite not implementing any segregation between supporters. They can go fcuk themselves quite frankly. The flares are a different story.

Why do you need walls to stop antagonising people. Can't your fans just do the decent human thing ?

Glico Man

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Why do you need walls to stop antagonising people. Can't your fans just do the decent human thing ?

If you were a little less dense, you'd realise that stewards are 'used' to separate fans in stadiums these days.

Your "walls" comment leads me to believe you have a hidden agenda with said comment.

Grayditch

And a stupid ****ing name.

Pyjamarama

Glico Man wrote: »

If you were a little less dense, you'd realise that stewards are 'used' to separate fans in stadiums these days.

Your "walls" comment leads me to believe you have a hidden agenda with said comment.

There's nothing hidden about it.