Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

LuckyLloyd

MD1990 wrote: »

Most football fans don't have a great knowledge of ped's though as football has not been as exposed by doping scandal's as other sports.

I think it's clear that there is a lack of knowledge considering the posting on this forum today!!

Fwiw, the six month ban coming is laughably lenient. It should be two years followed by life for strike two.

Luckily for us, football has no interest in facing up to the problem of PEDs. So we'll see Sakho early next season.

Club and Klopp seem to have handled the news well thus far.

K-9

So then, missed the footy today. Tune in for the first half on MotD, nothing we didn't already know in the second?

Mr. Sakho, I'll be a hypocritical baxtard on him!

Seriously, he'll probably come in for loads of stick and journo hack knowledgeable pieces, everybody was waiting for the first positive after the BBC expose.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Thread makes for strange reading. Fat burners are a known masking agent. He's probably on performing enhancing drugs - just like a decent percentage of professional athletes. He got caught, there'll be confirmations and then a ban. And then he'll return to play for us.

What's deeply unfortunate is the loss of momentum when you consider this in tandem with Oirigi's injury and the unfortunate second half today. That's life though. We'll need to persevere through adversity against Villareal.

The mix of naivety and self flaggeletion on show this evening is bizarre being frank.

Unlike Xmas/January, everything seems to be slowly building up on his this time.

Depends on Villareal's luck I suppose.

5starpool

GotTheTshirt wrote: »

To lighten the mood a little. I was just catching up on the days posting on my phone when I encountered a somewhat amusing ad placement.

You can see 1 post which consists of 3 words on that entire page. Horrific design and ad sizing.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think it's clear that there is a lack of knowledge considering the posting on this forum today!!


.....

No one claimed to be knowledgable regarding the issue.
We know you are into roid head sports from a video you linked to before but you are very much the minority.

MD1990

I remember Sakho broke some club equipment that was testing his strength a while back too.

JonnyM

MD1990 wrote: »

I remember Sakho broke some club equipment that was testing his strength a while back too.

Beeeeeaaaaaaaasssssssssssttttt!!!!

mormank

MD1990 wrote: »

Most football fans don't have a great knowledge of ped's though as football has not been as exposed by doping scandal's as other sports.

Ah dammit, so it turns out I was good enough all along, I was just on the wrong drugs!!! :mad:

dfx-

5starpool wrote: »

Another 4 for Suarez tonight, that's 8 goals in 2 games for him. Not bad.

and three assists as well.

53 goals for the season, 5 more than Ronaldo in 1996/1997 and only 20 behind Messi's record. Gone better than I thought it would and I was desperate for Barca to sign him..

Mignolet has supposedly made massive mistakes to cost us 4 draws this season - 8 points.

The difference is a top keeper can make is incredible

J Mysterio

I see a lot of talk about 'top keepers'... But who would you get? Who is gettable?

martyos121

J Mysterio wrote: »

I see a lot of talk about 'top keepers'... But who would you get? Who is gettable?

Zieler (former Northampton Town keeper who now plays for Hannover, solid)
Sirigu (lost his place to Trapp at PSG, still a good keeper, willing to leave)
Leno (great keeper but not having his best season, constantly linked with him)
Horn (most likely one to sign, plays for FC Köln, huge potential, double deal along with Hector maybe?)

mormank

J Mysterio wrote: »

I see a lot of talk about 'top keepers'... But who would you get? Who is gettable?

I hate to say it, cos it's Southampton again, but I think Forster would be my number 1 realistic choice. Such a great presence in the area too at 6"7, would make a huge difference to us defending crosses.

Pyjamarama

mormank wrote: »

I hate to say it, cos it's Southampton again, but I think Forster would be my number 1 realistic choice. Such a great presence in the area too at 6"7, would make a huge difference to us defending crosses.

He makes way too many mental errors for me to want anything to do with him. If we're gonna be replacing Mignolet lets just go out and buy a top class keeper. We'll have the money to do it. Go get someone who is somewhat proven at the top level. Its the one position where I want us to really make a big splash. Foster would still leave us miles behind Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, United and City when it comes to keepers.

I'd love us to go for Leno or test Inter for Handanovic, even if he did recently sign a new contract.

mormank

Pyjamarama wrote: »

He makes way too many mental errors for me to want anything to do with him. If we're gonna be replacing Mignolet lets just go out and buy a top class keeper. We'll have the money to do it. Go get someone who is somewhat proven at the top level. Its the one position where I want us to really make a big splash. Foster would still leave us miles behind Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, United and City when it comes to keepers.

I'd love us to go for Leno or test Inter for Handanovic, even if he did recently sign a new contract.

Well I would love Timo Horn or Ter Stegen but I wouldn't be sure either would come to us. I'm fairly confident we could get Forster. Don't know much about Handanovic tbh, don't watch any Serie A football these days. Alot may depend on the outcome of the Europa league and that elusive Champion's league spot it offers.

corwill

And a new goalie coach, for the love of gawd, someone without an actual, reverse-Midas touch.

klose

Bit annoyed ward didn't get a game again, done well v Bournemouth and deserved another go I thought. If he makes that mistake yesterday it's not as bad as he's a young keeper only really starting his career from a senior perspective but mignolet has been making those errors for years. Same old same old, get rid.

marklazarcovic

Also,firminho has been pretty awful for a while now,does not seem at 100% up to pace

Ardent

Jack Butland. Not the finished article but HUGE prospect. Have himself and Mignolet duking it out for the first team.

JonnyM

Ardent wrote: »

Jack Butland. Not the finished article but HUGE prospect. Have himself and Mignolet duking it out for the first team.

He'd be great in a couple of years but we need someone who is more or less the finished article to be able to step directly into the 1st team and stay there.

LuckyLloyd

Augeo wrote: »

No one claimed to be knowledgable regarding the issue.
We know you are into roid head sports from a video you linked to before but you are very much the minority.

I'm into sport in general of all shapes and sizes and my ultimate conclusion is that most elite professional sport is 'roid head' sport. The difference in perception tends to be related to how aggressively a sport's organisational body attempts to uncover and tackle the issue.

dogbert27

Ardent wrote: »

Jack Butland. Not the finished article but HUGE prospect. Have himself and Mignolet duking it out for the first team.

When I think of Butland I think of Scott Carson and Chris Kirkland.

I've said it before and a few others here too but we need a new goalkeeping coach.

John Achterberg came in after Xavi Valero left with Rafa. (I know Mike Kelly came in with Hodgson but that's a blank in my memory).

Pepe Reina declined under him and Simon Mignolet has not improved as a goalkeeper in 3 years.

This guy was fired in 2012 during Kenny's reign.

It looks like Rodgers brought him back!

We need a definite upgrade in this department and hopefully that will happen during the summer.

corwill

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm into sport in general of all shapes and sizes and my ultimate conclusion is that most elite professional sport is 'roid head' sport. The difference in perception tends to be related to how aggressively a sport's organisational body attempts to uncover and tackle the issue.

I'm always taken aback by the notion held by so many football fans that doping somehow isn't really an issue in the sport. There's this bonkers idea that it doesn't help because football is all about tekkers, as though massive gains in stamina, endurance, strength and recovery would somehow be of minimal impact.

There also seems to be an element of wishful thinking that most footballers just wouldn't do it out of... honesty? When you consider the levels of simulation and cheating you see in 90 minutes of football, lads snarling in anger at linos over a throw-in against them when they know full well the ball went out off them... How can anyone be surprised at footballers doping?

jpboard1

Of course there are drugs in football. Anywhere there is money there is going to be cheating. And there is a hell of alot of money in football. Way more so than in cycling, athletics, tennis or most other sports you care to mention.
Two major issues i see:
1)The approach to catching drug users needs to be changed radically as the current one will never work.
2)There has to be a hunger to catch these people, which the sport is currently void of.

Chardee MacDennis

mormank wrote: »

Well I would love Timo Horn or Ter Stegen but I wouldn't be sure either would come to us. I'm fairly confident we could get Forster. Don't know much about Handanovic tbh, don't watch any Serie A football these days. Alot may depend on the outcome of the Europa league and that elusive Champion's league spot it offers.

main issue here i think is we shouldnt want another stop gap or 'up and comer'. We need someone proven. Similar to when Spurs signed Lloris (a signing I have envied for a while and if there hadn't been a Spurs resurgence, someone i would have targeted), he was Ligue 1 keeper of the year for 3 years in a row at Lyon.

LiamoSail

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

If a club facilitated or even had knowledge of the fact a player was taking banned substances then IMO the club should be relegated at least one division, dumped out of any cup competitions they are in, all employees and management involved sacked and a new Board of Directors including CEO appointed i.e. a total clear out of those who permitted a medically dangerous cheating culture to emerge and embed itself.

I would be astounded however if this was anything other than one bloke either making an "honest" i.e. stupid/lazy mistake or at worst going on a personal solo run and taking a banned substance to improve his performance.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The bit in bold there is key.

So everyone associated with the club should be punushed...?

5starpool wrote: »

If the club were complicit in it then absolutely, but there is no indication that this is the case at all, so not sure why liamo is getting carried away.

I'm not suggesting the club were complicit, however ignorance is no excuse of the law. The performance against United was influenced by the use of a banned substance, and the responsibility for ensuring the side put out complies with the rules lies with Liverpool.

Legia Warsaw unknowingly put out an ineligible player for the last few minutes of a CL qualifier and as a result found themselves out of the CL. To my mind, fielding a player using a banned substance is a greater offence than fielding an ineligible player.

While I acknowledge that the club weren't complicit, the buck still stops with Liverpool, and I do believe clubs should perhaps be more proactive in ensuring their players aren't using banned substances. The fact is though that the tie with United was influenced by a banned substance and as such I don't see how the result can legitimately stand. While I understand the argument that this is unfair on the club as it was the actions of only one person, the club as a whole still benefited and the tie was compromised

LiamoSail

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm not suggesting the club were complicit, however ignorance is no excuse of the law. The performance against United was influenced by the use of a banned substance, and the responsibility for ensuring the side put out complies with the rules lies with Liverpool.

Legia Warsaw unknowingly put out an ineligible player for the last few minutes of a CL qualifier and as a result found themselves out of the CL. To my mind, fielding a player using a banned substance is a greater offence than fielding an ineligible player.

While I acknowledge that the club weren't complicit, the buck still stops with Liverpool, and I do believe clubs should perhaps be more proactive in ensuring their players aren't using banned substances. The fact is though that the tie with United was influenced by a banned substance and as such I don't see how the result can legitimately stand. While I understand the argument that this is unfair on the club as it was the actions of only one person, the club as a whole still benefited and the tie was compromised

John Delaney could put in a word and get a 5th semi finalist.

corwill

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm not suggesting the club were complicit, however ignorance is no excuse of the law. The performance against United was influenced by the use of a banned substance, and the responsibility for ensuring the side put out complies with the rules lies with Liverpool.

Legia Warsaw unknowingly put out an ineligible player for the last few minutes of a CL qualifier and as a result found themselves out of the CL. To my mind, fielding a player using a banned substance is a greater offence than fielding an ineligible player.

While I acknowledge that the club weren't complicit, the buck still stops with Liverpool, and I do believe clubs should perhaps be more proactive in ensuring their players aren't using banned substances. The fact is though that the tie with United was influenced by a banned substance and as such I don't see how the result can legitimately stand. While I understand the argument that this is unfair on the club as it was the actions of only one person, the club as a whole still benefited and the tie was compromised

Look, the rules simply don't call for that sanction. Not sure why you're wasting your time banging this drum.

LiamoSail

RoboKlopp wrote: »

John Delaney could put in a word and get a 5th semi finalist.

What's Delaney got to do with anything? To turn the tables, if Pipo Inzaghi was found to have been using a banned substance prior to the 2007 CL final, would you feel that Milan still won the competition fairly? I certainly wouldn't

corwill

corwill wrote: »

Look, the rules simply don't call for that sanction. Not sure why you're wasting your time banging this drum.

We need to change the rules to get poor ManU back in.

Anyone thinking that this sort of stuff isn't widespread is incredibly naive or has their head stuck in the sand, take your pick.

If players were tested properly there'd be bucket loads of games voided.

corwill

LiamoSail wrote: »

What's Delaney got to do with anything? To turn the tables, if Pipo Inzaghi was found to have been using a banned substance prior to the 2007 CL final, would you feel that Milan still won the competition fairly? I certainly wouldn't

What most influenced the tie against Utd was how useless your team and manager were over two legs. Sakho could have taken cyanide and we would have waltzed past you. Now jog on.

Buford T. Justice XIX

martyos121 wrote: »

Zieler (former Northampton Town keeper who now plays for Hannover, solid)
Sirigu (lost his place to Trapp at PSG, still a good keeper, willing to leave)
Leno (great keeper but not having his best season, constantly linked with him)
Horn (most likely one to sign, plays for FC Köln, huge potential, double deal along with Hector maybe?)

[IMG]http://media4.popsugar-assets.com/files/2014/02/07/960/n/1922398/7972ddf0d0409ba5_thumb_temp_image3956911391810358/i/Jay-Leno-Last-Episode-Tonight-Show.jpg[/IMG EDIT: Huge presence also...[/img]

LiamoSail

RoboKlopp wrote: »

We need to change the rules to get poor ManU back in.

Anyone thinking that this sort of stuff isn't widespread is incredibly naive or has their head stuck in the sand, take your pick.

If players were tested properly there'd be bucket loads of games voided.

So continue on with half arsed approach that's currently being adopted?

Its obviously widespread, hence I'm advocating sterner punishment for it rather than condoning the current situation which essentially facilitates it

Kerrigooney

corwill wrote: »

What most influenced the tie against Utd was how useless your team and manager were over two legs. Sakho could have taken cyanide and we would have waltzed past you. Now jog on.

LiamoSail is a Liverpool fan.

LiamoSail

corwill wrote: »

What most influenced the tie against Utd was how useless your team and manager were over two legs. Sakho could have taken cyanide and we would have waltzed past you. Now jog on.

You're trying to derail a debate about doping in sport into one about tribalism. The point I'm arguing is irrelevant to who I support. I'm not saying that Liverpool won the tie because of Sahko's use of a banned substance, I'm saying it influenced the tie and hence it wasn't a straight match.

Also, I'm a Liverpool fan. So you can **** off with the above. Unlike yourself, where I stand on an issue such as doping isn't dependent upon how it suits the club I support

LiamoSail

LiamoSail wrote: »

So continue on with half arsed approach that's currently being adopted?

Its obviously widespread, hence I'm advocating sterner punishment for it rather than condoning the current situation which essentially facilitates it

Drugs will never be irradicated from sport. Sportsmen will continue to take them to achieve goals. This will always be the case.

If a club is involved in systematically doping their players then they deserve the book thrown at them.

If a player does it on his own back then he deserves the same.

If Sakho is guilty of using PEDs he'll never play for Liverpool again.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Kerrigooney wrote: »

LiamoSail is a Liverpool fan.

There are so many Liamo posting here, it's easy to get confused.

jpboard1

LiamoSail wrote: »

corwill wrote: »

What most influenced the tie against Utd was how useless your team and manager were over two legs. Sakho could have taken cyanide and we would have waltzed past you. Now jog on.

You're trying to derail a debate about doping in sport into one about tribalism. The point I'm arguing is irrelevant to who I support. I'm saying that Liverpool won the tie because of Sahko's use of a banned substance, I'm saying it influenced the tie and hence it wasn't a straight match.

Also, I'm a Liverpool fan. So you can **** off with the above. Unlike yourself, where I stand on an issue such as doping isn't dependent upon how it suits the club I support

really?

jpboard1

RoboKlopp wrote: »

LiamoSail wrote: »

So continue on with half arsed approach that's currently being adopted?

Its obviously widespread, hence I'm advocating sterner punishment for it rather than condoning the current situation which essentially facilitates it

Drugs will never be irradicated from sport. Sportsmen will continue to take them to achieve goals. This will always be the case.

If a club is involved in systematically doping their players then they deserve the book thrown at them.

If a player does it on his own back then he deserves the same.

If Sakho is guilty of using PEDs he'll never play for Liverpool again.

Says who?

What if he is found guilty of using a well known masking agent for PEDs but not the PEDs themselves?

LiamoSail

jpboard1 wrote: »

really?

Typo. It should have read "I'm not saying...."

Will edit now

Turtyturd

The worst part of the whole situation is the club refusing to play him yesterday. Cost us two points imo.

Osmosis Jones

The rules are that the club can't be punished unless 2 or more players are charged. Nothing will happen to the club, that's the rules.

LiamoSail

LiamoSail wrote: »

You're trying to derail a debate about doping in sport into one about tribalism. The point I'm arguing is irrelevant to who I support. I'm saying that Liverpool won the tie because of Sahko's use of a banned substance, I'm saying it influenced the tie and hence it wasn't a straight match.

Also, I'm a Liverpool fan. So you can **** off with the above. Unlike yourself, where I stand on an issue such as doping isn't dependent upon how it suits the club I support

If you're going to change results based on drug test you gotta test every player. Otherwise it's nonsense.

Kerrigooney

Some stuff I've lifted from Twitter...

Squawka Football ‏@Squawka

In the Premier League no player has made more defensive errors leading to a goal this season than Simon Mignolet (4)

Joseph Cousins
‏@JCuzzy1

I looked at save to goals stat on Squawka. Mignolet has the worst in the Premier League.

https://twitter.com/JCuzzy1/status/724168908668854272

Joseph Cousins ‏@JCuzzy1 45m45 minutes ago

Liverpool have conceded 19 shots on target against the bottom half at home. Migs has stopped 8 of them from going in the net.

He shouldn't be anywhere near the team.

LiamoSail

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Drugs will never be irradicated from sport. Sportsmen will continue to take them to achieve goals. This will always be the case.

If a club is involved in systematically doping their players then they deserve the book thrown at them.

If a player does it on his own back then he deserves the same.

If Sakho is guilty of using PEDs he'll never play for Liverpool again.

The crux of the matter for me is that while the club may not be involved, they can still benefit from the use. Introducing stern punishments for clubs who's players are found to be using would encourage clubs to be far more proactive in ensuring their players aren't using anything.

The responsibility for ensuring a team aren't doping doesn't lie solely with the FA or UEFA testers, it lies with the clubs themselves. If Clubs were to face such serious reprecussions you can guarantee they'd be far less likely to turn a blind eye. I'm not suggesting Liverpool turned a blind eye, however I'm sure it does happen with clubs

Kerrigooney

On the Sakho thing...I'm not gonna lose my mind until he's actually charged with something.

Until that happens it's all guesswork.

LiamoSail

LiamoSail wrote: »

The crux of the matter for me is that while the club may not be involved, they can still benefit from the use. Introducing stern punishments for clubs who's players are found to be using would encourage clubs to be far more proactive in ensuring their players aren't using anything.

The responsibility for ensuring a team aren't doping doesn't lie solely with the FA or UEFA testers, it lies with the clubs themselves. If Clubs were to face such serious reprecussions you can guarantee they'd be far less likely to turn a blind eye. I'm not suggesting Liverpool turned a blind eye, however I'm sure it does happen with clubs

You'd need to change tons of rules, so best of luck with that.

There's no appetite for exposing doping stories. See the Spanish doctor story as proof.

Kerrigooney

If you think it's bad now wait until Pep arrives.

LiamoSail

RoboKlopp wrote: »

You'd need to change tons of rules, so best of luck with that.

There's no appetite for exposing doping stories. See the Spanish doctor story as proof.

I'm not trying to change anything, I'm just chatting ****e on a discussion forum here like everyone else.

But yea, I agree. The money involved means there's no appetite to combat it

8-10

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm not suggesting the club were complicit, however ignorance is no excuse of the law. The performance against United was influenced by the use of a banned substance, and the responsibility for ensuring the side put out complies with the rules lies with Liverpool.

Legia Warsaw unknowingly put out an ineligible player for the last few minutes of a CL qualifier and as a result found themselves out of the CL. To my mind, fielding a player using a banned substance is a greater offence than fielding an ineligible player.

While I acknowledge that the club weren't complicit, the buck still stops with Liverpool, and I do believe clubs should perhaps be more proactive in ensuring their players aren't using banned substances. The fact is though that the tie with United was influenced by a banned substance and as such I don't see how the result can legitimately stand. While I understand the argument that this is unfair on the club as it was the actions of only one person, the club as a whole still benefited and the tie was compromised

I get the argument, but the whole system of testing and punishing had to be overhauled for it to happen in the way you say. It's not just the EL, every game he played in since March 17th would be voided and I guess forfeited?

I just don't think it's practical in any way. What if a United defender tested positive in the same game? What do you do with the knockout rounds? If it happens in the league what do you do with the points or do you replay the game causing more fixture congestion and annoyance for the fans who paid good money to see the game the was later found to not be a valid result?

I'm not saying you're wrong by any means. But as it stands the system needs to improve a lot before you start talking about forfeiting results weeks after they happened. Right now nobody even knows if the control sample was tampered with or not.

Testing is far too slow a process right now to make it practical to void results. If that's the road to go down then make it like the jockeys in the Grand National or other big races: test them all before the event and ban them before they have the chance to compete. Prevention not retrospective punishment.