Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

54and56

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Just came across this explanation of Sakhos fat-busting drugs and it explains it fairly well in the first post, I think.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/4ll78t/sakhos_banned_substance_higenamine_and_why_uefa/

So Higenamine is the substance Sakho was taking. It's a relatively new drug and not on WADA's list of banned substances. How can he be guilty of taking a PED if it's not on the list of banned substances, right?

The problem I have is how the fcuk does an elite athlete get to the decision to take Higenamine regardless of whether it's on the banned list or not? Taken in tablet form or by injection Higenamine is thought to have anabolic effects (increased muscle mass, reduced body fat percentage and faster recovery rates) and consequently these type of drugs are prohibited.

Higenamine hasn't been banned yet so Sakho may well walk away from this on a technicality but he still needs to fess up to why he decided it was a good idea to take Higenamine and what he was hoping it would achieve.

Harry Palmr

Another one bites the dust.

PaddyWilliams

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Another one bites the dust.

Who?

Bandana boy

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Another one bites the dust.

Hey, I'm gonna get you, too

BullBlackNova

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/piotr-zielinski-liverpool-clearest-indication-8086928

Are these pics the same ones that showed up a few weeks ago?

Google Zielinski - the top two responses are "the clearest indication Zielinski is joining Liverpool yet" and "the zielinski deal is dead".

Conclusion - nobody has a f*cking clue.

Harry Palmr

Yes, the Mirror on the ball, if the ball was in play in mid May.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Well, it's been confirmed that Liverpool are the best club in England over the last 50 years with manU and Arsenal joint third.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11662/10291705/ultimate-league-reveals-liverpool-are-englands-top-team-followed-by-man-utd-and-arsenal

Nothing we didn't know anyway:)

Mr.H

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

So Higenamine is the substance Sakho was taking. It's a relatively new drug and not on WADA's list of banned substances. How can he be guilty of taking a PED if it's not on the list of banned substances, right?

The problem I have is how the fcuk does an elite athlete get to the decision to take Higenamine regardless of whether it's on the banned list or not? Taken in tablet form or by injection Higenamine is thought to have anabolic effects (increased muscle mass, reduced body fat percentage and faster recovery rates) and consequently these type of drugs are prohibited.

Higenamine hasn't been banned yet so Sakho may well walk away from this on a technicality but he still needs to fess up to why he decided it was a good idea to take Higenamine and what he was hoping it would achieve.

But it is primarily a fat burning substance regardless of how it is taken. I dont know but is it actually taken by injection or tablet form, or is it an ingredient of another product he had used?

Fact is this substance cant be used to mask drugs and he had comments made to him about his weight this season. Then he took a fat burning supplement!! 2 and 2 usually does add up to 4.

Agent Coulson

Sturridge, Henderson, Lallana, Milner & Clyne all make the England 23

Riesen_Meal

https://m.facebook.com/744318358999880/photos/pcb.947339365364444/947336222031425/?type=3&source=48

New Irish signing lads, no leaning but at Melwood...

Mr.H

Did we ever sign that other young Irish/ausie lad from Barca?? Zak Gilsenan. I tried googling but only seen reports that he was about to sign for us (but none saying he has signed for us)

54and56

Mr.H wrote: »

But it is primarily a fat burning substance regardless of how it is taken. I dont know but is it actually taken by injection or tablet form, or is it an ingredient of another product he had used?

Fact is this substance cant be used to mask drugs and he had comments made to him about his weight this season. Then he took a fat burning supplement!! 2 and 2 usually does add up to 4.

Mmmm, not so sure about that, see http://www.powdercity.com/products/higenamine

It states that the primary use of higenamine is Higenamine that it "has tremendous benefits when used as a pre workout supplement to help increase energy, improve focus, and enhance mental clarity. Unlike many other stimulants, higenamine does not constrict blood flow.[6] This can be quite useful for athletes, especially those engaged in weight training and other explosive type of sports since they can continue to see benefits from their nitric oxide supplements at the same time as using Higenamine."

A secondary benefit is that "there is also a lot of evidence to suggest that this supplement acts as a fat burner. This chemical has traditional uses as a bronchodialtor and has a molecular structure and fat burning mechanism very similar to Ephedrine"

Any professional footballer buying a substance which acts the way this stuff is described and is aware how similar it is to Ephedrine (which is one of the most commonly know banned substances http://list.wada-ama.org/list/s6-stimulants/#ephedrine) has a lot of questions to answer regardless of the technical loophole.

Saying you bought it for it's fat burning properties just isn't credible.

I truly hope he was just being an idiot, it was a once off and due to the loophole he'll get a slap on the wrist and come back to be a great player for us but boy will he have dodged a bullet if that's how things pan out.

Mr.H

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Mmmm, not so sure about that, see http://www.powdercity.com/products/higenamine

It states that the primary use of higenamine is Higenamine that it "has tremendous benefits when used as a pre workout supplement to help increase energy, improve focus, and enhance mental clarity. Unlike many other stimulants, higenamine does not constrict blood flow.[6] This can be quite useful for athletes, especially those engaged in weight training and other explosive type of sports since they can continue to see benefits from their nitric oxide supplements at the same time as using Higenamine."

A secondary benefit is that "there is also a lot of evidence to suggest that this supplement acts as a fat burner. This chemical has traditional uses as a bronchodialtor and has a molecular structure and fat burning mechanism very similar to Ephedrine"

Any professional footballer buying a substance which acts the way this stuff is described and is aware how similar it is to Ephedrine (which is one of the most commonly know banned substances http://list.wada-ama.org/list/s6-stimulants/#ephedrine) has a lot of questions to answer regardless of the technical loophole.

Saying you bought it for it's fat burning properties just isn't credible.

I truly hope he was just being an idiot, it was a once off and due to the loophole he'll get a slap on the wrist and come back to be a great player for us but boy will he have dodged a bullet if that's how things pan out.

Given the clubs stance with him during this event I hope for his sake that this wasnt something more malicious than trying to lose weight because the club seem to have taken no chances with him. I wouldnt put it past them to sell him on if they thought he was trying to use PED's

I wonder is the "increase energy, improve focus, and enhance mental clarity" actual PED or is it more like having a can of red bull or bottle of Lucazade sport which also both claim to do the same?

Im not trying to just defend him or anything (if he was trying to cheat f#ck him) but im just wondering is this substance actually bad or is it just flagged as maybe bad and may one day be ruled bad or alright.

For the record I recall WADA and WHO both warning athletes against drinking red bull before working out as it could be dangerous. Doesnt mean a player would get banned for drinking it though


But my whole thinking is that:

Sakho was told "you are fat"

He was caught taking something that turns out, reduces fat

I cant see how straight away people go beyond the obvious and think he is hiding something more than that

54and56

Mr.H wrote: »

But my whole thinking is that:

Sakho was told "you are fat"

He was caught taking something that turns out, reduces fat

I cant see how straight away people go beyond the obvious and think he is hiding something more than that

For me I just don't get why you'd take Higenamine to reduce fat given it is not the main purpose the substance is designed to deliver.

Given the risks associated with taking something which acts similar to Ephedrine would a professional player looking to lose weight not try some or all of these 40 suggestions first? http://bembu.com/vitamins-and-natural-supplements-for-weight-loss Maybe he did, who knows.

J Mysterio

Will Sakho be able to get in to the French squad though? I understand teams need to ve submitted by 11pm tonight?

BullBlackNova

J Mysterio wrote: »

Will Sakho be able to get in to the French squad though? I understand teams need to ve submitted by 11pm tonight?

Nope.

Deschamps has said he wont pick him.

“Seriously? No. Or I have no respect for the players I selected,” the coach said when asked if he would bring back Sakho.

“When I decided [on the squad] there was no evidence that the end [for Sakho]would be positive, even if it needed confirmation.”

Mr.H

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

For me I just don't get why you'd take Higenamine to reduce fat given it is not the main purpose the substance is designed to deliver.

...........................

Mostly because it seems to be reported as a fat burning substance. I have no medical training what so ever so I have no idea but if the main purpose of this substance is something else then why is it reported as primarily a fat burning substance?

I know that there are other benefits which you have pointed out but there are other benefits to other alternative fat burning substances also.

In fact one of the benefits to this is to help erectile disfunction. But you are not suggesting he has a problem with entertaining Mrs Sakho.

It just seems like an easy way of hinting a player was up to no good by saying "ah but you cant prove you didnt want to take something illegal"

My biggest question is, did he take Higenamine orally, through a needle or was it an ingredient of another product?

54and56

Mr.H wrote: »

Mostly because it seems to be reported as a fat burning substance.

Anywhere I've seen it listed it compares it to Ephedrine and that's a big no no so even if it was only being taken to lose weight how could you not be aware it works in a very similar manner to a banned substance. Should that info alone not be a big red flag?

Mr.H wrote: »

My biggest question is, did he take Higenamine orally, through a needle or was it an ingredient of another product?

That's a very fair question along with "how much did he take?". If he took it via some otherwise harmless supplement, didn't realise it was one of the 40 odd ingredients (certainly wouldn't have identified it as a banned substance because it's not) and there were only minute traces of it in his body then he was just unlucky and UEFA should wipe his record clean but if he injected it or took it in tablet/powder form as pure Higenamine or close to pure Higenamine that's a different matter entirely.

I remember a few years ago a horse being disqualified from a race when his blood test showed the presence of some sort of PED. The trainer argued the substance occurred naturally in carrots and all seemed to breath a sigh of relief that nothing untoward had been happening until that is the scientists piped up and said for the substance to appear in the concentration levels found in the horse it would have had to have eaten an articulated truck load of carrots the previous 24 hours which it clearly didn't do.

Things are rarely as simple as they first appear. Let's hope this is one of the exceptions.

Agent Coulson

James Milner fifth best player at Euro 2016 - Uefa

England's James Milner is currently the fifth best player among Euro 2016 teams, says a Uefa rankings tool.

Fellow midfielder Danny Drinkwater, who was left out of Roy Hodgson's 23-man squad on Tuesday, is the eighth highest-rated Englishman.

Portugal forward Cristiano Ronaldo tops the Uefa 'barometer', with Sweden striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic second.

The list is based on form for club and country from 1 January, 2016, including Euro 2016 qualifying.

"The barometer runs official player statistics through a specially designed algorithm to create rankings based on player performances," said Uefa.

Players are classed as goalkeepers, full-backs, central defenders, defensive midfielders, central midfielders, attacking midfielders, wingers and forwards.

Striker Marcus Rashford, 18, is 93rd on the list, four places above Manchester United team-mate and England captain Wayne Rooney.

Uefa added: "The data considered for each player is specific to the position type.

"For example, tackles and interceptions are considered to be key statistics for defensive midfielders, while successful dribbles and crosses are core stats for wingers."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36420669?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_match_of_the_day&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=sport


Uefa barometer
Player Country Position
1. Cristiano Ronaldo Portugal Forward
2. Zlatan Ibrahimovic Sweden Forward
3. Antoine Griezmann France Forward
4. Dimitri Payet France Attacking midfielder
5. James Milner England Central midfielder
6. Saul Niguez Spain Central midfielder
7. Koke Spain Central midfielder
8. Sergio Ramos Spain Central defender
9. Toni Kroos Germany Central midfielder
10. Juanfran Spain Full-back

Harry Palmr

Proof that you can prove black is white with statistics! :pac: He won me over as the season progressed I have to say. Just don't play him as part of a midfield two.

OwaynOTT

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Proof that you can prove black is white with statistics! :pac: He won me over as the season progressed I have to say. Just don't play him as part of a midfield two.

and mKe sure he's running when crossing and preferably digging out a cross after over running it or cutting into his weaker side.

Agent Coulson

Basically he is the best winger in the world without pace.

~Rebel~

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Basically he is the best winger in the world without pace.

The new Beckham.

mosstin

Jaysus, am I the only one on here who scrolls right through posts about Sakho's slimming pills? Not saying it isn't relevant, just not interesting to me in the slightest. He's back, I'm happy.

NukaCola

Is he back though? Is that the end of the saga? Tune in next week.........

mosstin

Opinions eh? Been reading through a Guardian piece on the England squad for the Euros. Clyne - a very dependable defender and almost our POTY - is described as having had a "testing year" at Anfield.
Kyle Walker - a defender who puts the 'head' in 'headless' - has "enjoyed a fine campaign at Tottenham."
I'd have Clyne every day of the week ahead of Kyle Walker.

Very happy with Clyne at RB. A positive from last season for sure

5starpool

Reports we are on the verge of signing Samuel Bastien from Anderlecht.

My 'Likelyhoodometer' rates this at 14.8% simply because I've never heard of him, therefore more likely than the likes of Higuain, although I still don't think it'll happen.

Buford T. Justice XIX

5starpool wrote: »

Reports we are on the verge of signing Samuel Bastien from Anderlecht.

My 'Likelyhoodometer' rates this at 14.8% simply because I've never heard of him, therefore more likely than the likes of Higuain, although I still don't think it'll happen.

19 yo CM supposedly highly rated.

Anyone see a pattern continuing yet?

5starpool

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

19 yo CM supposedly highly rated.

Anyone see a pattern continuing yet?

Highly rated, spent last season on loan in Serie B. Doesn't sound the most promising from that regard, at least nowhere near ready to be even a reasonably occasional first XI player.

Harry Palmr

Dodgy translation, Liverpool have been linked with this fella for a few months as have the Italian clubs mentioned.

If we are to believe the messages from Italy will realize a dream Samuel Bastien transfer to the Premier League. And that despite clear posts earlier of his manager.

Liverpool, Palermo, Fiorentina, Sporting Lisbon, Juventus, ... all they were mentioned before if it was about Bastien. But suddenly last week, there was good news for the purple-white fans, because Bastien would still play just for Anderlecht when he would get his chances.

"He just reverts back to Anderlecht " said his manager last week. "There is a lot of interest, but the future of Samuel is at Anderlecht." a week later is there between Anderlecht and Liverpool, however, already an agreement according to the Italian media. Bastien is on tour in Spain and is referred to by his manager kept informed day by day, but with the deal would 5 or 6 million euros.

5starpool

Another 'interesting' one.

http://www.90min.com/posts/3274611-jurgen-klopp-keen-to-bring-back-former-red-pepe-reina-to-anfield?a_aid=35396

My likelyhoodometer rating for this one is a barely there 0.3%

martyos121

As a player, absolutely not. As our new goalkeeping coach though, yes please. He was at one point in the top three keepers in the world, and his distribution was as good as I've seen from anyone until Neuer came along.

rob316

martyos121 wrote: »

As a player, absolutely not. As our new goalkeeping coach though, yes please. He was at one point in the top three keepers in the world, and his distribution was as good as I've seen from anyone until Neuer came along.

When?

I rated him highly but you are seriously over rating him there, top 3 no chance.

Harry Palmr

martyos121, stop being so ambitious! If you'd said top 10 we'd all nod in agreement.

Hollister11

He was easily one of the best in the world. It's just because he played for Liverpool and not a "big team" that his reputation wasn't as high.

BorneTobyWilde

Another young player
We'll never have a future..
..if all we do is build for a future
Building needs to stop
Doing on 20 years now

BorneTobyWilde

We should be buying men ,not boys
We needs some more 27-30 years olds

BorneTobyWilde

http://www.footballinsider247.com/liverpool-sensational-bid-re-sign-pepe-reina-report/

Speckydodge

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

We should be buying men ,not boys
We needs some more 27-30 years olds

No we just need the right players , no matter what age or club they play for.

Kirby

Hollister11 wrote: »

He was easily one of the best in the world. It's just because he played for Liverpool and not a "big team" that his reputation wasn't as high.

No. His reputation wasn't as high because he wasn't one of the best keepers in the world. He made way too many mistakes to be considered that.

~Rebel~

Kirby wrote: »

No. His reputation wasn't as high because he wasn't one of the best keepers in the world. He made way too many mistakes to be considered that.

His first 5 or so seasons with us he was pretty imperious.

rob316

Hollister11 wrote: »

He was easily one of the best in the world. It's just because he played for Liverpool and not a "big team" that his reputation wasn't as high.

Ok, list out the top keepers in the world while Reina was at his peak and we'll see where he really ranks.

martyos121

rob316 wrote: »

When?

I rated him highly but you are seriously over rating him there, top 3 no chance.

He absolutely was, he won the Golden Glove three years in a row between 2006-08, during which time the Premier League was widely recognised as the strongest in the world. There weren't three better keepers in the world at that time.

Buffon and Casillas were better without question, but there was nobody else as good as him, not even Cech.

dogbert27

mosstin wrote: »

Opinions eh? Been reading through a Guardian piece on the England squad for the Euros. Clyne - a very dependable defender and almost our POTY - is described as having had a "testing year" at Anfield.
Kyle Walker - a defender who puts the 'head' in 'headless' - has "enjoyed a fine campaign at Tottenham."
I'd have Clyne every day of the week ahead of Kyle Walker.

I'm very happy with that assessment if it means Hodgson keeps Clyne on the bench for the whole tournament!! :pac:

I think at the moment the only two Liverpool players that are at risk of a starting position with England are Milner and Lallana.

marklazarcovic

Good backup ,and we all know of his dressing room/squad morale boosting personality, migs a gonner if this happens of course

dogbert27

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Good backup ,and we all know of his dressing room/squad morale boosting personality, migs a gonner if this happens of course[/QUOTE]

dogbert27

John Achterburg has to go.

Reina regressed when he became GK coach and Mignolet has not improved since he signed 3 years ago.

Riesen_Meal

So, are we trying to sign Reina back as a Goalie coach? Or a player?

corwill

Fieldog wrote: »

So, are we trying to sign Reina back as a Goalie coach? Or a player?

If we're replacing Acterberg, I'd really rather it was with an experienced coach with a track record of success, and not yet another great fella who's popular locally.