Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

Riesen_Meal

corwill wrote: »

If we're replacing Acterberg, I'd really rather it was with an experienced coach with a track record of success, and not yet another great fella who's popular locally.

I agree, so it's a strange choice to have Pepe back IMO....

I thought he was happy out at Napoli anyway...

People have short memories though, how many times did he flutter his eyes at Barca etc?

corwill

Fieldog wrote: »

People have short memories though, how many times did he flutter his eyes at Barca etc?

Never could understand the tolerance for that twice-yearly sh!t-fest.

Turtyturd

Fieldog wrote: »

So, are we trying to sign Reina back as a Goalie coach? Or a player?

To stand beside Sakho all the time and make him feel better about his body issues.

Buford T. Justice XIX

5starpool wrote: »

Another 'interesting' one.

http://www.90min.com/posts/3274611-jurgen-klopp-keen-to-bring-back-former-red-pepe-reina-to-anfield?a_aid=35396

My likelyhoodometer rating for this one is a barely there 0.3%

I'd say that's optimistic, tbh.

Turtyturd wrote: »

To stand beside Sakho all the time and make him feel better about his body issues.

Last pic of Reina I saw, he was well on the way to filling half the width of the goals. There might be only a foot either side for him to cover by now:(

PaddyWilliams

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Last pic of Reina I saw, he was well on the way to filling half the width of the goals. There might be only a foot either side for him to cover by now:(

Sign him up and feed him more then.. Clean sheets galore!

dogbert27

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3619490/Liverpool-best-represented-club-Euro-2016-12-players-does-compare-Premier-League-rivals.html

Damn it! Of course we'd have to have the most players at the Euros!!

corwill

I see Mikel San Jose made the Spain squad. Did we get any few bob or a set of tracksuits or what have you from Bilbao for him?

garra

dogbert27 wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3619490/Liverpool-best-represented-club-Euro-2016-12-players-does-compare-Premier-League-rivals.html

Damn it! Of course we'd have to have the most players at the Euros!!

So we are Euro champions!!

In fairness that probably means we have less players than other top clubs from South America / Africa / Asia, and that's a good thing in terms of player availability..

D'Agger

corwill wrote: »

I see Mikel San Jose made the Spain squad. Did we get any few bob or a set of tracksuits or what have you from Bilbao for him?

We took him from Bilbao in the first place so there was a buy back IIRC

What was interesting was him being touted as a massive talent, then Daniel Ayala seemed to progress and be given more of a chance than him - he never really progressed for us but nice to see him doing well in Spain

x43r0

I'd be happy to see Reina come in in a coaching capacity and only actually play in an injury crisis making him effectively 3rd choice

mormank

corwill wrote: »

I see Mikel San Jose made the Spain squad. Did we get any few bob or a set of tracksuits or what have you from Bilbao for him?

San Jose is a perfect example of why I would keep Llori tbh. He hadn't even played a senior game for us when we left him go and now he is in the Spanish squad for the Euro's. Gabriel Paletta is another good example.

Harry Palmr

Liverpool could have San Jose, Ayala (voted Championship player of the season), Paletta and Insua (although maybe not - Stuggart have been relegated!)

TitianGerm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Liverpool could have San Jose, Ayala (voted Championship player of the season), Paletta and Insua (although maybe not - Stuggart have been relegated!)

I always thought Insua was going to be a very good player for us.

I think he was over used when he was still very young though and that stunted his progress for us unfortunately.

corwill

mormank wrote: »

Gabriel Paletta is another good example.

Ah he's not though, 3 Italy caps notwithstanding. I've seen a few times down the years since he left, and in the flesh twice, and he still has the mobility of the Statue of Liberty. A quick ball over the top, and he's like one of those penguins who falls over when a plane flies over.

Sappy404

mormank wrote: »

San Jose is a perfect example of why I would keep Llori tbh. He hadn't even played a senior game for us when we left him go and now he is in the Spanish squad for the Euro's. Gabriel Paletta is another good example.

Ilori is 23 and has made 41 senior appearances in 5 years at 5 different clubs. I think it's safe to say he's not up to the club's standard, especially considering we'll be trimming the fat with no European football this year.

rob316

Just looking at this Achterberg guy not too familiar with him. I would have thought goalkeeping coach was changed with every manager to suit the style of play. Just find it strange we have the same guy there under Hodgson, Kenny, Rodgers and now Klopp.

Its a bit of coincidence that our goalkeepers have been poor since 2011 when he was appointed first team goalkeeping coach, that was around about the time Reina started to decline.

He is fairly highly rated though and passionate that I do know.

J Mysterio

mormank wrote: »

San Jose is a perfect example of why I would keep Llori tbh. He hadn't even played a senior game for us when we left him go and now he is in the Spanish squad for the Euro's. Gabriel Paletta is another good example.

I dont understand the Illori thing to be honest. Ive always been impressed with his compusure and thought he would have been well worth a few starts.

Must be one of those 'you havent seen him in training' jobs.

8-10

dogbert27 wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3619490/Liverpool-best-represented-club-Euro-2016-12-players-does-compare-Premier-League-rivals.html

Damn it! Of course we'd have to have the most players at the Euros!!

Should be more but for Lovren's antics and Sakho not being available recently

~Rebel~

J Mysterio wrote: »

I dont understand the Illori thing to be honest. Ive always been impressed with his compusure and thought he would have been well worth a few starts.

Must be one of those 'you havent seen him in training' jobs.

Yeah, there must be some sort of attitude problem or something...his pace alone would make you think he was worthy of some game time, even if just covering full back. But for whatever reason he didn't even get a minute in our end-of-season dead rubber games, so hard to imagine he has any sort of a future with us.

8-10 wrote: »

Should be more but for Lovren's antics and Sakho not being available recently

Really hoping that we can reap the benefits of our top 3 CB's and new keeper all being at pre-season from the word go.

Harry Palmr

What could be better than one Emre?

One Mor Emre of course!

Linked with a move, below is his senior Turkish debut, he's in the Euro squad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJJzKDBABuk&ab_

mosstin

rob316 wrote: »

Just looking at this Achterberg guy not too familiar with him. I would have thought goalkeeping coach was changed with every manager to suit the style of play. Just find it strange we have the same guy there under Hodgson, Kenny, Rodgers and now Klopp.

Its a bit of coincidence that our goalkeepers have been poor since 2011 when he was appointed first team goalkeeping coach, that was around about the time Reina started to decline.

He is fairly highly rated though and passionate that I do know.

Dunno. The Achterberg situation seems to be a 'thing' people obsess on which happens at various times with Liverpool.
In the recent past, here are a few of those 'things';
1. Rafa's rotation.
2. Zonal marking (common to many clubs in fairness and mostly voiced by Luddites who don't understand it)
3. Klopp's training causing hamstring injuries.
4. Rodgers needing a defensive coach.
Achetrberg's been at Anfield under Benitez, Rodgers and now Klopp and he's still there. I'd be looking at the fact that we haven't signed a decent keeper in some time as the root cause of our goalkeeping woes rather than assuming it must be the coach's fault.

Buford T. Justice XIX

emmetkenny wrote: »

I always thought Insua was going to be a very good player for us.

I think he was over used when he was still very young though and that stunted his progress for us unfortunately.

Please don't start this again?

Pretty please?

Pretty please with sugar on top?

And lollipops?

corwill

mosstin wrote: »

Dunno. The Achterberg situation seems to be a 'thing' people obsess on which happens at various times with Liverpool.
In the recent past, here are a few of those 'things';
1. Rafa's rotation.
2. Zonal marking (common to many clubs in fairness and mostly voiced by Luddites who don't understand it)
3. Klopp's training causing hamstring injuries.
4. Rodgers needing a defensive coach.
Achetrberg's been at Anfield under Benitez, Rodgers and now Klopp and he's still there. I'd be looking at the fact that we haven't signed a decent keeper in some time as the root cause of our goalkeeping woes rather than assuming it must be the coach's fault.

That's an absolutely super strawman you've lovingly crafted there.

TitianGerm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Please don't start this again?

Pretty please?

Pretty please with sugar on top?

And lollipops?

Do you not think so

~Rebel~

corwill wrote: »

That's an absolutely super strawman you've lovingly crafted there.

He does have a bit of a point though...it's become a thing that people say now, despite the fact i've never read a bad thing about him from anyone that's worked with him. He's still there after 5 managers, when the bulk of the other positions have been shuffled around number of times since then. Clearly it's not as obvious as some people on here seem to think.

5starpool

Skrtel to Middlesboro for 6m is the latest rumour.

mosstin

corwill wrote: »

That's an absolutely super strawman you've lovingly crafted there.

Fair enough. But you're countering it with?

Agent Coulson

I'd let him go for £6m the story is coming from the rag so I'd take it with a grain of salt.

Harry Palmr

Fact - Daniel Ayala made his senior debut when Skrtel was subbed!

5starpool

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I'd let him go for £6m the story is coming from the rag so I'd take it with a grain of salt.

Well I take all rumours with a large dose of salt. Didn't realise it came from there originally though.

rob316

£6m would be getting back what we paid for him. He needs to find a team that doesn't play a high line or play the ball out from the back that is where he struggles most. He had some excellent seasons under Rafa and a very good one under Kenny, only 31, could still be a big player elsewhere.

Hollister11

Matip, Lovern and Sakho are pretty good CB options. They just need to be coached well. We should look for some 18 YO prospect to add in there.

corwill

corwill wrote: »

That's an absolutely super strawman you've lovingly crafted there.

Not really, seems quite a factual description of the horsesh1t people roll out repeatedly.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I'd let him go for £6m..........

I'd let him go on a free tbh.

Fromvert

Hollister11 wrote: »

Matip, Lovern and Sakho are pretty good CB options. They just need to be coached well. We should look for some 18 YO prospect to add in there.

If Sakho doesn't get a ban Joe Gomez as a fourth choice CB (as well as being back up RB and and emergency LB option) and I'd guess we won't sign another CB.

Hollister11

Fromvert wrote: »

If Sakho doesn't get a ban Joe Gomez as a fourth choice CB (as well as being back up RB and and emergency LB option) and I'd guess we won't sign another CB.

I actually forgot about Joe Gomez. I think we sorted than if Sakho is available.

Joe had a great few games, before he got injured.

Fromvert

Hollister11 wrote: »

I actually forgot about Joe Gomez. I think we sorted than if Sakho is available.

Joe had a great few games, before he got injured.

I forget him and Ings every so often because they missed so much but both looked like they'll offer us something next season.
Gomez looked very good for a 19 year old defender, hopefully his injury won't set him back too much.

54and56

Hollister11 wrote: »

Matip, Lovern and Sakho are pretty good CB options. They just need to be coached well. We should look for some 18 YO prospect to add in there.

Gomez? Illori?

Agent Coulson

Matip, Lovern and Sakho and I'd like one more experienced CB be it Kolo or someone new.

I wouldn't expect or put to much pressure on Gomez to be ready before next January coming back from a major injury like he has had.

Hannibal

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Matip, Lovern and Sakho and I'd like one more experienced CB be it Kolo or someone new.

I wouldn't expect or put to much pressure on Gomez to be ready before next January coming back from a major injury like he has had.

with no Europe we should have enough with Sakho, Lovren and Matip plus whatever is in the youths. I don't know the situation with Ilori, we clearly struggled for fitness for some reason at Villa and struggled to last 80 minutes for the Cup games he played in for us. Being Irish i'd like to see Masterson or Whelan get a sniff but it's highly unlikely

Harry Palmr

Bring Ayala home!

Hannibal

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Bring Ayala home!

Mikel San Jose was one we should never have let go

Talisman

mosstin wrote: »

Achetrberg's been at Anfield under Benitez, Rodgers and now Klopp and he's still there. I'd be looking at the fact that we haven't signed a decent keeper in some time as the root cause of our goalkeeping woes rather than assuming it must be the coach's fault.

Achterberg wasn't anywhere near the first team under Benitez or Hodgson. Xavi Valero was the goalkeeping coach when Benitez was sacked. Hodgson brought in his own coach, Mike Kelly.

Achterberg got the role because the new management didn't go to the trouble of trying to recruit a coach when Dalglish stepped in to replace Hodgson. Like Dalglish, the appointment was supposed to be a temporary one. Dalglish didn't shake up the coaching staff when he was made manager and Rodgers didn't bring a goalkeeping coach to the club.

In three years, Mignolet has not developed as a player at Liverpool. If a player repeatedly makes the same mistakes over that time scale then questions have to be asked about the coaching of the player.

dogbert27

Talisman wrote: »

Achterberg wasn't anywhere near the first team under Benitez or Hodgson. Xavi Valero was the goalkeeping coach when Benitez was sacked. Hodgson brought in his own coach, Mike Kelly.

Achterberg got the role because the new management didn't go to the trouble of trying to recruit a coach when Dalglish stepped in to replace Hodgson. Like Dalglish, the appointment was supposed to be a temporary one. Dalglish didn't shake up the coaching staff when he was made manager and Rodgers didn't bring a goalkeeping coach to the club.

In three years, Mignolet has not developed as a player at Liverpool. If a player repeatedly makes the same mistakes over that time scale then questions have to be asked about the coaching of the player.

Exactly. When Mike Kelly left with Hodgson Achterberg was promoted from the Academy (his first coaching gig) to the first team.

Look at our goalkeeper's performances since.

Reina regressed.
Brad Jones (thanks Roy!) - don't need to comment on his performances
Mignolet - 3 years still making the same mistakes.
Bogden - again don't need to comment on his performances

Being in charge of the Academy since 2008 where are the young goalkeepers that are coming through?

Danny Ward made a name for himself by going to Aberdeen under a different goal keeping coach and kept 9 clean sheets up to Christmas last year.

Questioning a goalkeeping coach who has overseen inadequate goal keeping performances for a 5 year period is not "thing" that people are "obsessing" over like Rafa rotation, zonal marking, blah, blah, blah.

It's a legitimate concern in an area where there is consistent weakness on the field.

I'm sure Achterburg is a nice guy and very professional. The same was said of Roy Hodgson.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/12/grobbelaar-questions-liverpool-goalkeeper-coach/

mosstin

dogbert27 wrote: »

Exactly. When Mike Kelly left with Hodgson Achterberg was promoted from the Academy (his first coaching gig) to the first team.

Look at our goalkeeper's performances since.

Reina regressed.
Brad Jones (thanks Roy!) - don't need to comment on his performances
Mignolet - 3 years still making the same mistakes.
Bogden - again don't need to comment on his performances

Being in charge of the Academy since 2008 where are the young goalkeepers that are coming through?

Danny Ward made a name for himself by going to Aberdeen under a different goal keeping coach and kept 9 clean sheets up to Christmas last year.

Questioning a goalkeeping coach who has overseen inadequate goal keeping performances for a 5 year period is not "thing" that people are "obsessing" over like Rafa rotation, zonal marking, blah, blah, blah.

It's a legitimate concern in an area where there is consistent weakness on the field.

I'm sure Achterburg is a nice guy and very professional. The same was said of Roy Hodgson.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/12/grobbelaar-questions-liverpool-goalkeeper-coach/

Jones, Mig, Bogdan - all sub standard. I have no idea how good/bad Achterberg is as a goalkeeping coach but neither does anyone else here.
This suggestion though that he 'happened' to be promoted and is somehow still there, is nonsense.

dogbert27

mosstin wrote: »

Jones, Mig, Bogdan - all sub standard. I have no idea how good/bad Achterberg is as a goalkeeping coach but neither does anyone else here.
This suggestion though that he 'happened' to be promoted and is somehow still there, is nonsense.

You might as well have "Liverpool goalkeeping coach says he can't do the job he wants as he's not been given the tools that he needs"

I wonder who else said that?!

There's five years of evidence of Liverpool goalkeepers not improving. It's not a knee jerk reaction to say that we should be looking for an upgrade on the goalkeeping coach.

mosstin

dogbert27 wrote: »

You might as well have "Liverpool goalkeeping coach says he can't do the job he wants as he's not been given the tools that he needs"

I wonder who else said that?!

There's five years of evidence of Liverpool goalkeepers not improving. It's not a knee jerk reaction to say that we should be looking for an upgrade on the goalkeeping coach.

You could equally say 'of not being good enough'. We haven't had a top keeper since Reina so it's no surprise none of our keepers have looked good.
No-one's called it knee-jerk. If Karius turns out to be an excellent signing, all of a sudden, there'll be another 'thing' for people to get their knickers in a twist over and, most probably, make lazy assumptions about.
Anyway, The Avalanches have just released new music after 16 years so I couldn't care less this fine morning.

Mr.H

mosstin wrote: »

You could equally say 'of not being good enough'. We haven't had a top keeper since Reina so it's no surprise none of our keepers have looked good.
No-one's called it knee-jerk. If Karius turns out to be an excellent signing, all of a sudden, there'll be another 'thing' for people to get their knickers in a twist over and, most probably, make lazy assumptions about.
Anyway, The Avalanches have just released new music after 16 years so I couldn't care less this fine morning.

Except Reina WAS one of the best keepers around for a few years with us until he regressed (after Rafa left)

Migs WAS top class before he came to Liverpool

to be fair I'm not sure its just the coaching staff. I think the players haven't been good enough also. Whether that is ability or laziness I'm unsure but Maybe its a bit of both?

The fact is under the current keeping coach all our keepers including Reina have started to fade away. Lets not pretend Migs wasnt a great keeper before he came here. Same will happen to karius if we dont bring in a specialist to help

BullBlackNova

Mr.H wrote: »

Except Reina WAS one of the best keepers around for a few years with us until he regressed (after Rafa left)

Migs WAS top class before he came to Liverpool

to be fair I'm not sure its just the coaching staff. I think the players haven't been good enough also. Whether that is ability or laziness I'm unsure but Maybe its a bit of both?

The fact is under the current keeping coach all our keepers including Reina have started to fade away. Lets not pretend Migs wasnt a great keeper before he came here. Same will happen to karius if we dont bring in a specialist to help

We can rewrite history all we want, but it's just not the case.

Reina regressed drastically during Rafa's last season, before Achterberg was anywhere near the club.

Mignolet was a good keeper, not a great keeper. He was still prone to error but Sunderland set up to suffocate play in a way that he wasn't required to do as much. There wasn't as much space on the pitch ahead of him, which is our problem.

I'm not saying it's not a coaching error, but our goalies have their issues regardless of the coaches.

On Achterberg, I don't see why he's still here. Klopp seems to rate his work ethic, but we haven't seen a notable improvement in our goalkeepers under him - they are making the exact same mistakes every single time. Part of that is their ability, but a coach has to be able to make improvements in a player's game and that just doesn't seem to be happening.

I'm all for bringing in a new GK coach, but I don't think, for example, that Mignolet will become good overnight if we do replace Achterberg. The issues run far deeper than that.

dogbert27

BullBlackNova wrote: »

We can rewrite history all we want, but it's just not the case.

Reina regressed drastically during Rafa's last season, before Achterberg was anywhere near the club.

Mignolet was a good keeper, not a great keeper. He was still prone to error but Sunderland set up to suffocate play in a way that he wasn't required to do as much. There wasn't as much space on the pitch ahead of him, which is our problem.

I'm not saying it's not a coaching error, but our goalies have their issues regardless of the coaches.

On Achterberg, I don't see why he's still here. Klopp seems to rate his work ethic, but we haven't seen a notable improvement in our goalkeepers under him - they are making the exact same mistakes every single time. Part of that is their ability, but a coach has to be able to make improvements in a player's game and that just doesn't seem to be happening.

I'm all for bringing in a new GK coach, but I don't think, for example, that Mignolet will become good overnight if we do replace Achterberg. The issues run far deeper than that.

Agree, Mig won't improve enough with a new coach.

The problem with Mig is he now has a 5 year contract. He's not going to be signed by a better club then Liverpool so it's going to be a case of whether he wants first team football or be happy to be "fighting for his place" / be reserve keeper every week.