Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

Mr.H

BullBlackNova wrote: »

We can rewrite history all we want, but it's just not the case.

Reina regressed drastically during Rafa's last season, before Achterberg was anywhere near the club.

Mignolet was a good keeper, not a great keeper. He was still prone to error but Sunderland set up to suffocate play in a way that he wasn't required to do as much. There wasn't as much space on the pitch ahead of him, which is our problem.

I'm not saying it's not a coaching error, but our goalies have their issues regardless of the coaches.

On Achterberg, I don't see why he's still here. Klopp seems to rate his work ethic, but we haven't seen a notable improvement in our goalkeepers under him - they are making the exact same mistakes every single time. Part of that is their ability, but a coach has to be able to make improvements in a player's game and that just doesn't seem to be happening.

I'm all for bringing in a new GK coach, but I don't think, for example, that Mignolet will become good overnight if we do replace Achterberg. The issues run far deeper than that.

In the 2012/13 season
Migs played 38 league games keeping 11 clean sheets
He had an average of 3.26 saves per game

That was a team that battled against relegation by the way!

To say he wasnt a great keeper who was raved about and linked with some top clubs is a complete misrepresentation of facts and history.

Reina did start to slide during the last season of Rafa yes. As did the rest of the team when Pako left in fact. The last season under Rafa was a mess in our back room. That doesnt even include the stuff going on between Rafa and the owners at the time.

But Reina in his last season with Rafa was still far superior to the keeper he became after that.

I am not saying we should keep Migs. I think its too late for him. What I am saying is we need a new first choice keeper AND a new keeping coach. The coach would be my priority though

corwill

mosstin wrote: »

Fair enough. But you're countering it with?

See above, glad I was saved the trouble.

corwill

Augeo wrote: »

Not really, seems quite a factual description of the horsesh1t people roll out repeatedly.

That's quite a post coming from the thread's manuremonger-in-chief.

gafferino

City just signed Gundogan from Dortmund for £21m. That's an absolute steal compared to some of the prices we will see this summer. Great signing.

Harry Palmr

Only great while he is playing.

TitianGerm

gafferino wrote: »

City just signed Gundogan from Dortmund for £21m. That's an absolute steal compared to some of the prices we will see this summer. Great signing.

Last year of his contact, was just back from a bad knee injury and is out now again until October I think.

He's a great player when fit but like Sturridge it's hard to keep him fit.

Calvin

Anyone know if I need to have a Liverpool members card to attend the game vs Barca at Wembley? Have access to pre sale tickets atm..half tempted to book a trip over for it

ricero

Twitter rumor of the day is that PSG want coutinho. Reckon its bull**** but if we were to sell another star this summer then i imagine the pitchforks and torches will be out for FSG

Harry Palmr

It's almost certainly nonsense but 45m quid would be hard to ignore if he was interested.

Agent Coulson

Well if they are prepared to pay £50m for a flaky Brazilian CB I'm sure they would pay double that for a flaky Brazilian number 10.

corwill

corwill wrote: »

That's quite a post coming from the thread's manuremonger-in-chief.

According to you and "The Sisters"
Who incidentally are the folks I was thinking of who post incessant horsesh1t repeatedly regarding defensive & goalkeeper coaches etc.

Talisman

ricero wrote: »

Twitter rumor of the day is that PSG want coutinho. Reckon its bull**** but if we were to sell another star this summer then i imagine the pitchforks and torches will be out for FSG

They would have to move on one of their five non-EU players (Silva, Maxwell, di Maria, Pastore and Lucas) to put him in the squad.

corwill

Augeo wrote: »

According to you and "The Sisters"

You're posting in tongues, old chap. Is there anyone nearby to do a F.A.ST. check on you?

54and56

ricero wrote: »

Twitter rumor of the day is that PSG want coutinho. Reckon its bull**** but if we were to sell another star this summer then i imagine the pitchforks and torches will be out for FSG

Would hate to see Coutinho leave before he's had a season or two under Klopp but if PSG want him and he wants to go how would FSG be responsible? It's not like they are out in the market offering Coutinho to FSG in order to extract cash to line their own pockets is it?

If Coutinho or any other player wants to leave FSG basically have three choices:-

1. Love bomb him to get him to stay a la the time Stevie G was about to sign for Chelsea.

2. Take a hard line, tell the player he's staying and hope he doesn't do an Eden Hazard for the year. (potentially a lose lose for both the club and the player)

3. Accept that players will from time to time want to move to pastures new so be mature and professional about it i.e. secure as big a transfer fee as possible and use the funds to rebuild the squad.

There would be as much logic in criticising FSG for Coutinho wanting to join FSG as there would be in praising FSG for Coutinho scoring one of his outside the box into the bottom corner specials.

corwill

corwill wrote: »

You're posting in tongues, old chap. Is there anyone nearby to do a F.A.ST. check on you?

Clean as a whistle kid.

I'm speaking in a tongue you understand, one has to be mindful of their audience.

Mr.H

Jesus the bickering is boring

Harry Palmr

*passive aggressive alert*

Harry Palmr

Talisman wrote: »

They would have to move on one of their five non-EU players (Silva, Maxwell, di Maria, Pastore and Lucas) to put him in the squad.

They can ditch Pastore quick enough to someone in Italy or back to Brazil I imagine.

mosstin

Mr.H wrote: »

Jesus the bickering is boring

Net spend.

Juan8

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Would hate to see Coutinho leave before he's had a season or two under Klopp but if PSG want him and he wants to go how would FSG be responsible? It's not like they are out in the market offering Coutinho to FSG in order to extract cash to line their own pockets is it?

If Coutinho or any other player wants to leave FSG basically have three choices:-

1. Love bomb him to get him to stay a la the time Stevie G was about to sign for Chelsea.

2. Take a hard line, tell the player he's staying and hope he doesn't do an Eden Hazard for the year. (potentially a lose lose for both the club and the player)

3. Accept that players will from time to time want to move to pastures new so be mature and professional about it i.e. secure as big a transfer fee as possible and use the funds to rebuild the squad.

There would be as much logic in criticising FSG for Coutinho wanting to join FSG as there would be in praising FSG for Coutinho scoring one of his outside the box into the bottom corner specials.

:rolleyes:

Knex*

This posted?

https://twitter.com/Carra23/status/738068969060438016

BullBlackNova

How would people feel if Coutinho was to go? For what it's worth, I don't think he will be leaving, but I also don't think it'd bother me that much.

He can be great, but he can be frustratingly inconsistent and I feel as though something needs to give in that end of the pitch to get the best out of everyone. I don't see Firmino leaving, and Lallana seems to be favoured by Klopp for his effort, etc so...

It'd bug me too though. Obviously he's still very young and could become a big star in a few years with the right coaching, etc so even a big offer now wouldn't offset that if he did hit the heights (I'm smarting now over the amount we got for Suarez!!)

But, in comparison to all the other departures in recent seasons, it wouldnt hurt as much.

Masch and Alonso - top players, just generally sucked to lose them
Torres - to a rival on the last day of the window, Andy f*cking Carroll
Suarez - best player in the world
Gerrard - wasn't "lost" I guess, but it didn't make his departure enjoyable
Sterling - hasn't delivered, but it felt like a real slap in the face to be held to ransom publicly by him and his agent. The £50m was definitely far more than he was worth, but the manner of the departure was bad
Coutinho - ?? Where does he fit in this list?

I think the main thing for me is that I want to start next season without having lost someone and had to rebuild yet again. It seems that since 2009 we are on a consistent cycle of sell-buy-build-sell-buy-build and it's frustrating.

TL;DR - I don't want Coutinho to go, but it wouldn't be as bad as other departures!

OwaynOTT

Surely posting about the suir, the nore and the barrow is off topic? Even for this thread.

mav79

I'd absolutely hate to see Couthino leave, with a squad lacking in quality, he is a player that can do something special to win games.
I never understood this idea that Couthino is inconsistent either, sure he doesn't curl one into the top corner from 30 yards every game but who does? Couthino is a team player, reliant on others to shine. If there is a static forward ahead of him how is he going to play a through ball for someone to run onto, or if the defenders start hoofing the ball up to the attackers from deep what influence can he have on a game? For me Couthino is the first name on the teamsheet, nearly every other position it would be pretty easy to upgrade on.

razorblunt

FWIW I had no problem with Sterling leaving, the value at the time, I felt was a decent price and he will never be sold for near to that again.

Agent Coulson

8-10

Talisman wrote: »

They would have to move on one of their five non-EU players (Silva, Maxwell, di Maria, Pastore and Lucas) to put him in the squad.

Maxwell goes where Zlatan goes. Always.

OwaynOTT

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Well if they are prepared to pay £50m for a flaky Brazilian CB I'm sure they would pay double that for a flaky Brazilian number 10.

Do they have a sponsorship deal with Head and Shoulders? 'pose Joe will be off there next.

TitianGerm

I was absolutely gutted when Alonso left, one of my favourite players ever for Liverpool.

I don't see us loosing any of our first teamers this summer. I think most of them will want to see how a full season with Klopp will turn out.

Harry Palmr

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I think the main thing for me is that I want to start next season without having lost someone and had to rebuild yet again. It seems that since 2009 we are on a consistent cycle of sell-buy-build-sell-buy-build and it's frustrating.

TL;DR - I don't want Coutinho to go, but it wouldn't be as bad as other departures!

I don't think Klopp would be required to replace Coutinho to be honest, he wants width on at least one flank (Mane?), while the club has been linked with Dahoud and Zielinski who are "progressive" midfielders.

Firmino and Lallana would remain so shifting one of the No 10s for a good wide man and a ball playing CM would allow the manager to reshape the dynamic of the side to something more direct at no cost.

ricero

Harry Palmr wrote: »

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I think the main thing for me is that I want to start next season without having lost someone and had to rebuild yet again. It seems that since 2009 we are on a consistent cycle of sell-buy-build-sell-buy-build and it's frustrating.

TL;DR - I don't want Coutinho to go, but it wouldn't be as bad as other departures!

I don't think Klopp would be required to replace Coutinho to be honest, he wants width on at least one flank (Mane?), while the club has been linked with Dahoud and Zielinski who are "progressive" midfielders.

Firmino and Lallana would remain so shifting one of the No 10s for a good wide man and a ball playing CM would allow the manager to reshape the dynamic of the side to something more direct at no cost.

At no cost ? See this is what annoys me. Fsg should be backing klopp to the hilt with funds. Should not have to sell to buy

54and56

Juan8 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

A man of few words

Harry Palmr

ricero wrote: »

At no cost ? See this is what annoys me. Fsg should be backing klopp to the hilt with funds. Should not have to sell to buy

Ha! - I could have said and so freeing up money for Higuain/Suarez/Bale/any-other-entirely-unrealistic-target-here.

If Coutinho were sold I'd not expect anything other than a net profit on transfers with Balo and Benteke also near certainty to leave.

54and56

ricero wrote: »

At no cost ? See this is what annoys me. Fsg should be backing klopp to the hilt with funds. Should not have to sell to buy

No one is saying Klopp does have to sell to buy, the kernel of the Coutinho discussion relates to PSG wanting him, not Klopp/the club shopping him to PSG and if he did decide to go to PSG would Klopp have to do a like for like replacement or not.

Agent Coulson

The clubs interest in Gotze this could easily lead PSG to think Coutinho was/is could be available at the right price!


Coutinho is on about half the money the likes of Sturridge & Benteke are getting every week could look at like PSG and think they will pay me a fortune every week I get to play CL football and win loads of medals in France to show the grand kids why should stay in Liverpool when those two get paid more than me an never bloody play.


To be honest that could go for all the other players in the squad when they look at Sturridge & Benteke.

Riesen_Meal

I don't know if the blistering heat is playing with people's head's - I wouldn't want Coutinho to go, especially like to see him have a full season under Klopp with Bobby F...

Yes he has some anonymous games from time to time but I wouldn't like to see him gone...

Agent Coulson

Paul Joyce is now saying two more clubs have shown interest in Coutinho.

SuperTortoise

Save me going through the last few pages please! Where is the Coutinho stuff coming from and are they reliable? Any sort of figures being banded about?

Agent Coulson

Kane just hit a worse corner for England than Aspas ever could.

Riesen_Meal

Is it 40m they are talking about for Coutinho?

price690

I don't think Coutinho is as important to the team as people seem to think he is.

An offer of 50million would be too good to turn down in an ideal world.

However its not an ideal world in terms of transfers. Using the argument "we can reinvest this inflated fee and be better for it" is defunct. The club probably have £50million to spend with or without Coutinho, and we are not exactly attracting worthy alternatives as it is.

You would hope the club would be looking to buy even better players aswell as holding onto him. The league is awash with money so id fear for how that 50million would be invested.

He is a hugely inconsistent player though. His "cut in on his right foot to shoot and any opportunity" is telegraphed.

I've really high hopes for Firmino though with a full pre season behind him. We have only been scratching the surface this season gone in terms of how effective he will be for us.

ERG89

We shouldn't sell him. We did an poor job replacing any important players & Firmino still isn't consistent to say he has been a great replacement for him.
I doubt we'll get anyone on his level never mind better to fill his place.

price690

ERG89 wrote: »

We shouldn't sell him. We did an poor job replacing any important players & Firmino still isn't consistent to say he has been a great replacement for him.
I doubt we'll get anyone on his level never mind better to fill his place.

The point is we shouldn't be needing the cash from this sale in order to reinvest in the team.

The league is awash with money. We should already have targets in mind to improve us with selling Coutinho.

Theres no way to positively spin a Coutinho sale, as inconsistent as he is. 50million would be serious money for him but we should be beyond the sell to buy craic at this stage. We don't need the funds in order to improve, we should be able to do it anyway.

SuperTortoise

New stand to be payed for, might tempt FSG.
As long as Klopp gets the final say i'll go with whatever he decides.

Harry Palmr

Coutinho may want to leave. Just sayin'

emo72

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Coutinho may want to leave. Just sayin'

don't say.

Agent Coulson

Celtic to throw in a cheeky bid for him along with the offer of a couple of games in the CL (Maybe)

Tusky

Amazed at people's nonchalance at losing Coutiniho. He is 23 years old and already our best player.

We have a terrible, painful record of selling our best players and failing to replace them...Torres, Mascherano, Alonso, Suarez, Sterling.

Selling these guys and not properly replacing them is the reason we have slipped further down the table in recent seasons. We need to keep hold of our best players and surround them with better players.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

..........


Coutinho is on about half the money the likes of Sturridge & Benteke are getting every week could look at like PSG and think they will pay me a fortune every week I get to play CL football and win loads of medals in France to show the grand kids why should stay in Liverpool when those two get paid more than me an never bloody play.


To be honest that could go for all the other players in the squad when they look at Sturridge & Benteke.

I don't think Coutinho or any of the other players in the squad are that slow really, Sturridge had 13 goals in 25 appearances the season just gone.

Never bloody play is not applicable to Sturridge and you know it.

Tusky

Tusky wrote: »

Amazed at people's nonchalance at losing Coutiniho. He is 23 years old and already our best player.

We have a terrible, painful record of selling our best players and failing to replace them...Torres, Mascherano, Alonso, Suarez, Sterling.

Selling these guys and not properly replacing them is the reason we have slipped further down the table in recent seasons. We need to keep hold of our best players and surround them with better players.

Heard the same waffle a few years ago about Suarez and Sterling.

Look what happens when you keep losing your best players. You finish 8th in the league.

Coutinho is massively important if we want to kick on under Klopp