Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016, Mod Warning in OP, 10/7

ricero

I see the logic in building a team of hungry, young and unknown players but i think a big name signing would give the club and fans a huge lift going into next season

corwill

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Not going to happen, unless Dav quits in the next few weeks:pac:

Joint Gearbest/Sahin unveiling?

Mr.H

ricero wrote: »

I see the logic in building a team of hungry, young and unknown players but i think a big name signing would give the club and fans a huge lift going into next season

I completely agree with what your saying

But I just think that buying a big name for the sake of buying a big name is counter productive. It is the mantra United have been trying for the last few years and it hasnt worked at all. They bought BIG names to try to give their team and fans a boost but it has not paid off.

We cant afford to buy a player for 60 million and not have it pay off

Could you imagine Mario cost us 60 million with no way of getting rid of him for that price. Aqua and Carroll for example. Big financial hits that we cant afford to keep making.

While a big name would be great, I just cant see it. Unless someone in our first team left

murpho999

Mr.H wrote: »

£300 million is cheap then? (I dont have the time to look for the article right now where a year after the sale they wrote off a lot more of our debts)

FSG didnt sign Markovic the transfer committee did.

They decided that Markovic was a good investment and still could be. They also decided that Coutinho was a good investment!!

DO you think Leicester City will sign top names with Champions league this season??? NOT A CHANCE

Like us 2 years ago they are not established in the CL so will not attract the big names.

Im not getting your argument though. What do you expect us to do? Who should we be signing that we are clearly not forking out the cash for? I dont see any reports of actual people we are lining up but dont wanna pay the cash...................... Actually there is one and his name is Mane. You want Mane?? (I like him by the way but he isnt worth 40 million)

£300m is cheap if it has doubled in value in 5 years, that’s an amazing return.

Are you serious about Markovic not being an FSG signing? So the transfer committee is nothing to do with FSG and their policies?

Are FSG not responsible for any signings over the last few years. Duds such as Aspas, Alberto, Illori, Yesil, Markovic, Ballotelli etc, are nothing to do with FSG? Wouldn’t they have been better spending that money on one top player?

FSG have had almost 6 years to get us back to the top, where they say they want to be but have only come close on one occasion and have failed to build on that.

You don’t think that finishing 6th or 8th in the last 2 seasons was anything at all do with their poor transfer policies that stems from their philosophy of how the club should be run.

Liverpool should be in the market for top players and that would happen if FSG changed their failed policies.

Your comparison to Leicester is poor by the way. Liverpool have a big history and name and being back in the CL after a few years gap was a great opportunity that was not built upon and players would not have been put off by being out for 4 seasons beforehand.

Why aren’t we going for the likes of Vardy if available.
How can Utd get the likes of Ibrahimovic if out of the CL? Why can’t we be competing for players like that?

We want playes to improve the team immediaitely not investable youngsters,

If you are happy to support a regime that can balance the books and leave the team in mid table then so be it, but it’s definitely not something I want but it’s what we’re getting for 5 of the last 6 seasons but of course that’s nothing to do with FSG.

Pyjamarama

It's tough for all of us supporting the only team that has a statistically poor transfer history... of course that's actually the case for pretty much every team. We just focus more on the successful ones when it comes to other clubs.

As for going for vardy the last kind of striker we need is one who plays on the shoulder. Teams don't play against us with a high line very often. If we're to buy a striker we need one who can create space and has a physical presence and knows how to use it

NukaCola

murpho999 wrote: »

I actually think they are not spending money that they do have.

So you want FSG to spend their own money or are you saying that they are taking money out of the club? Because nothing suggests they have. Yea we'd love quality signings but from an FSG POV we made a profit for the first time in 7 years in 2015. They want LFC to be self sustainable. I dont think we'll see FSG spending their own money any time soon, and not sure of any club owner that does apart from the mega rich clubs.

I actually agree with you, its a model that hasn't brought much success. The plan now, it seems, is hope Klopp does the work for them on a reasonable budget. But the transfer process is awful IMO, not sure how much it will change.

FSG aren't the worst lets be honest, on the financial side of things we are doing well in getting self sustaining. If you expect them to sell to an owner that will throw money around I wouldn't hold my breath though. At the same time it is frustrating that we never seem to improve the team under FSG, just replace our best players and stay in the same position, and it is a bit worrying that they seem to be pretty much ok with it.

NukaCola

Pyjamarama wrote: »

It's tough for all of us supporting the only team that has a statistically poor transfer history... of course that's actually the case for pretty much every team.

True, I'm not sure if any manager from a "top team" that wants a player has to pick one off a pre selected list though.....

murpho999

Pyjamarama wrote: »

It's tough for all of us supporting the only team that has a statistically poor transfer history... of course that's actually the case for pretty much every team. We just focus more on the successful ones when it comes to other clubs.

As for going for vardy the last kind of striker we need is one who plays on the shoulder. Teams don't play against us with a high line very often. If we're to buy a striker we need one who can create space and has a physical presence and knows how to use it

AH yes, Vardy wouldn't suit us, how come he would suit Arsenal then?

Harry Palmr

Tony Barrett speaks

There's no need for conspiracy theories here. Klopp's on holiday in California with his family and went the match with his brother. I think his buyout is £80m too. I'd be surprised if we don't bring in one more centre half, two central midfielders and a winger. I think the only reason we'd enter the market for a forward would be if Sturridge struggles physically during pre season but the hope has to be that the opposite will happen and he'll be flying. If we have him on blob, Origi continuing to develop and Ings back to full fitness we'll have a better stock of forwards than most. Ings' was a one off injury. His fitness is generally top notch. Sturridge's fitness improved significantly after Klopp came. Origi had an injury inflicted by a horrendous tackle and a couple of strains that you'd expect with a young player who's adding bulk and endurance. We'll play just over 20 games between August and January and you'd expect overall fitness to improve after a proper pre-season so if we were to sign another centre forward (you'd have a job convincing one to come considering what we already have) what would we do with him?

If we had a manager who prefers two up top I'd agree but Klopp goes with one so having four out and out centre forwards is too much. Even when only Origi and Sturridge were fit last season, centre forward was the position where competition for places was strongest. Add Ings to that - and from all accounts his recovery has been particularly impressive - and I don't see why we'd sign a fourth. This summer should be about using whatever money we have available to buy the best midfielders, centre backs and winger that we possibly can. If Ings and Origi are both fit we could be in a situation in which Sturridge is actually our third option for certain games. Our priorities are definitely elsewhere.

murpho999

NukaCola wrote: »

So you want FSG to spend their own money or are you saying that they are taking money out of the club? Because nothing suggests they have. Yea we'd love quality signings but from an FSG POV we made a profit for the first time in 7 years in 2015. They want LFC to be self sustainable. I dont think we'll see FSG spending their own money any time soon, and not sure of any club owner that does apart from the mega rich clubs.

I actually agree with you, its a model that hasn't brought much success. The plan now, it seems, is hope Klopp does the work for them on a reasonable budget. But the transfer process is awful IMO, not sure how much it will change.

FSG aren't the worst lets be honest, on the financial side of things we are doing well in getting self sustaining. If you expect them to sell to an owner that will throw money around I wouldn't hold my breath though. At the same time it is frustrating that we never seem to improve the team under FSG, just replace our best players and stay in the same position, and it is a bit worrying that they seem to be pretty much ok with it.

THis is my point.

The club is run by owners who don't really like football and therefore see it is a business opportunity.
They are running the club to make it financially successful and profitable but they are not bringing success to the pitch and are probably not that worried about it.

Great though, we have a healthy balance sheet and a trophy room full of Dunkin Donut coffee cups. If that's what people are happy to see then so be it.

Mr.H

murpho999 wrote: »

£300m is cheap if it has doubled in value in 5 years, that’s an amazing return.

Thats great but the club only doubled in value due to the management of the club by FSG. From decisions made by their policies and business dealings.

Plus just because the club is worth 600 million doesnt mean we have 600 million to spend............... we would need to sell the club to get 600 million and then we would have no club to buy players for

murpho999 wrote: »

Are you serious about Markovic not being an FSG signing? So the transfer committee is nothing to do with FSG and their policies?

I suppose the fact that the cleaning ladies now use a different toilet roll in the bogs is FSG's fault also?

The hired a staff to do a job. They gave them directives. The staff done a poor job. This is the staffs fault not FSG's.

Every club has a transfer comittee do some degree. I dont get why people moan so much about ours. It makes sense. Dont leave the decisions to one person. Its too much of a gamble on one persons word that they are a good player and will suit the club.

murpho999 wrote: »

Are FSG not responsible for any signings over the last few years. Duds such as Aspas, Alberto, Illori, Yesil, Markovic, Ballotelli etc, are nothing to do with FSG? Wouldn’t they have been better spending that money on one top player?

I am sure FSG didnt say lets buy all those players instead of one "better" player.

As I said above the people they employed bought wrong with the funds they where given.

murpho999 wrote: »

FSG have had almost 6 years to get us back to the top, where they say they want to be but have only come close on one occasion and have failed to build on that.

So you want to sack the owners??

They own the club. They have more of a right to the club than any of us here.

We follow THEIR club

You really want to change owners and end up with another H&G?

murpho999 wrote: »

You don’t think that finishing 6th or 8th in the last 2 seasons was anything at all do with their poor transfer policies that stems from their philosophy of how the club should be run.

Yes but thats nothing to do with the owners its donw to the people buying teh players and they havent been good enough.

Hell forget FSG. Look at our transfers prior to FSG!!

Did they sign Aqua?? how about Joe Cole?

Diouf? Cheyrou?

Jealousy is the only thing leading us to blame our owners for not buying the Messi's and Ronaldo's of this world

murpho999 wrote: »

Liverpool should be in the market for top players and that would happen if FSG changed their failed policies.

Why would we?

Why do you really think we have more money than we are spending?

murpho999 wrote: »

Your comparison to Leicester is poor by the way. Liverpool have a big history and name and being back in the CL after a few years gap was a great opportunity that was not built upon and players would not have been put off by being out for 4 seasons beforehand.

We are the Lazio of England. Great History but right now we need to stop looking back and start looking forward

murpho999 wrote: »

Why aren’t we going for the likes of Vardy if available.
How can Utd get the likes of Ibrahimovic if out of the CL? Why can’t we be competing for players like that?

Vardy?? You would be the first one to complain if we where after Vardy. That aside he is going to a CL team which we are not

Ibra........................... mercenary. 200k+ a week plus huge sign on fee for a not very pacey striker who has spent the last 4 years in France after 2 in Italy.

For the last 6 years this (almost) 35 year old has been playing in leagues where he has had no real opposition defence.

murpho999 wrote: »

We want playes to improve the team immediaitely not investable youngsters,

Karius and Matip I am sure will improve the team straight away

Mario was intended to

Firmino, Lallana, Clyne, Milner, Lovren............... All players that where bought for the first team

You talk like we dont sign players for the first team

murpho999 wrote: »

If you are happy to support a regime that can balance the books and leave the team in mid table then so be it, but it’s definitely not something I want but it’s what we’re getting for 5 of the last 6 seasons but of course that’s nothing to do with FSG.

So what do you propose??

I keep asking but you have no solution.

Do we boycott the team?? Even though we are in a better position than under the previous owners and could easily end up with someone worse?

Or do you wanna support a team that matches your ideals?

Pyjamarama

murpho999 wrote: »

AH yes, Vardy wouldn't suit us, how come he would suit Arsenal then?

I don't think he will... tho he might due to Ozils ability to play through balls like nobody else in world football. We don't have that. We have Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana who like to play one twos are try to take on their man.

Also the standard counter to gegenpress is to sit deep and play direct football. Vardy against a deep back line is a lot less impressive...

A peaK Adebayour playing for a contract would be the kind of forward who would thrive under Klopp. Not a 29 year old Michael Owen clone.

Harry Palmr

Must be this summer heat - why would FSG bother spending all the Sterling money and more if they were content to keep the club mid-table? They did they ditch Rodgers for Klopp when they could have got in someone cheaper and less obviously ambitious? Why have they spent 120m on a new stand and infrastructure for the sake of about 20 million quid a season more in revenue when the TV deal is worth a multiple of that every season?

mayordenis

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Not a 29 year old Michael Owen clone.

Could have shortened that to Michael Clone. Succinct.

murpho999

Mr.H wrote: »

Thats great but the club only doubled in value due to the management of the club by FSG. From decisions made by their policies and business dealings.

Plus just because the club is worth 600 million doesnt mean we have 600 million to spend............... we would need to sell the club to get 600 million and then we would have no club to buy players for




I suppose the fact that the cleaning ladies ....

Thank you for your business lesson. Do you really think that I thought we had £600m to spend? Bloody hell.

My point is that people need to stop reverting to FSG as some knights in shining armour who bought the club and rescued it from the brink? No, it was a shrewd business decision designed to make them a lot of money and that will happen when they eventually sell, which I believe could be sooner rather than later.
Now they get credit for refurbishing Anfield, which I am happy with but don’t forget it was the cheaper option and is also being financed by the club and paid back over time. It’s costing FSG nothing.

According to your logic about the staff being responsible then a manager should not be held responsible for his players’ perfromances or an MD for a club losing money.
The transfer committee is FSG’s idea, nobody else’s and it’s a failure. Why are you letting them off the hook about that?

I think that we have more money than we are spending by doing simple maths. Look at our transfer net spend, it’s tiny. FSG have hardly put any money into the club.

The club is making profits so the money is there.
Also, why is Ibra a mercenary?
One of the worlds’ top players, would walk into any side but we don’t want him because he’s a mercenary?
As for Vardy, I know of course it’s not going to happen but I would welcome him. Top scorer last season. If he’s good enough for Arsenal why isn’t he good enough for us?
I just picked him as an example of what we could be doing. These are the players we should be going for but we’re not.

As for the solution, I never said change the owners, I said what they are implementing is not working.
We are low-balling on transfers and missing out. Turning down good players for the saving a few million but wasting money on mediocre players because they have potential or resale value.

That needs to change.

I just don’t get why fans keep defending them and not realise what is going on.

Buford T. Justice XIX

murpho999 wrote: »

Thank you for your business lesson. Do you really think that I thought we had £600m to spend? Bloody hell.

My point is that people need to stop reverting FSG as some knights in shining armour who bought the club and rescued it from the brink? No, it was a shrewd business decision designed to make them a lot of money and that will happen when they eventually sell, which I believe could be sooner rather than later.
Now they get credit for refurbishing Anfield, which I am happy with but don’t forget it was the cheaper option and is also being financed by the club and paid back over time. It’s costing FSG nothing.

According to your logic about the staff being responsible then a manager should not be held responsible for his players’ perfromances or an MD for a club losing money.
The transfer committee is FSG’s idea, nobody else’s and it’s a failure. Why are you letting them off the hook about that?

I think that we have more money than we are spending by doing simple maths. Look at our transfer net spend, it’s tiny. FSG have hardly put any money into the club.

The club is making profits so the money is there. Also,
Why is Ibra a mercenary?
One of the worlds’ top players, would walk into any side but we don’t want him because he’s a mercenary?
As for Vardy, I know of course it’s not going to happen but I would welcome him. Top scorer last season. If he’s good enough for Arsenal why isn’t he good enough for us?
I just picked him as an example of what we could be doing. These are the players we should be going for but we’re not.

As for the solution, I never said change the owners, I said what they are implementing is not working.
We are low-balling on transfers and missing out. Turning down good players for the saving a few million but wasting money on mediocre players because they have potential or resale value.

That needs to change.

I just don’t get why fans keep defending them and not realise what is going on.

It was the only option.

We wouldn't get planning for a new stadium in Stanley Park unless it involved a groundshare with Everton. The only new stadium option was moving outside the city. Neither option was popular with supporters. Then there would be the cost of 100% of a new stadium over 20 years where we would need a Wenger-like manager to develop new starters every year to replace our best player being sold every year.

The extension will be mostly paid for by attendance and concession revenues so in less than 10 years it will help drive overall revenue.

In fairness to FSG, they are brilliant at maximising revenues from the club but the club seems unable to get a good enough return from that revenue as yet.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Tony Barrett speaks

"I'd be surprised if we don't bring in one more centre half, two central midfielders and a winger."

Sounds good providing our new keeper is first 11 material.

Mr.H

murpho999 wrote: »

Thank you for your business lesson. Do you really think that I thought we had £600m to spend? Bloody hell.

My point is that people need to stop reverting to FSG as some knights in shining armour who bought the club and rescued it from the brink? No, it was a shrewd business decision designed to make them a lot of money and that will happen when they eventually sell, which I believe could be sooner rather than later.
Now they get credit for refurbishing Anfield, which I am happy with but don’t forget it was the cheaper option and is also being financed by the club and paid back over time. It’s costing FSG nothing.

According to your logic about the staff being responsible then a manager should not be held responsible for his players’ perfromances or an MD for a club losing money.
The transfer committee is FSG’s idea, nobody else’s and it’s a failure. Why are you letting them off the hook about that?

I think that we have more money than we are spending by doing simple maths. Look at our transfer net spend, it’s tiny. FSG have hardly put any money into the club.

The club is making profits so the money is there.
Also, why is Ibra a mercenary?
One of the worlds’ top players, would walk into any side but we don’t want him because he’s a mercenary?
As for Vardy, I know of course it’s not going to happen but I would welcome him. Top scorer last season. If he’s good enough for Arsenal why isn’t he good enough for us?
I just picked him as an example of what we could be doing. These are the players we should be going for but we’re not.

As for the solution, I never said change the owners, I said what they are implementing is not working.
We are low-balling on transfers and missing out. Turning down good players for the saving a few million but wasting money on mediocre players because they have potential or resale value.

That needs to change.

I just don’t get why fans keep defending them and not realise what is going on.

I didnt see anyone else lining up a shrewd business move and saving us before we went extinct

I dont see any evidence they are about to sell. If they where wouldnt they have been better off with the cheaper Rodgers and not allow the team to spend so much money on players? (regardless of net spend)

I just dont understand why you think they need to dig into their own pockets. What club does that?? City??? PSG??

Even Barca have to try to break even.

United and Arsenal have the income.

I also dont get your point about turning down players?? Who did we turn down?? Do you mean we refused to pay more?

Mr.H

Augeo wrote: »

"I'd be surprised if we don't bring in one more centre half, two central midfielders and a winger."

Sounds good providing our new keeper is first 11 material.

I would settle for Karius to be on par with Migs right now

The competition would drive Migs to be in top form and Karius is young enough to improve. A win win

I remember when Ward got a couple of games last season and Migs said he welcomes Ward as competition................... All I thought was "you would say that"

Biggest mistake we made was not have Migs and Reina fight for number one

Dudek was good at the start because he had Carson and Kirkland breathing down his neck

kfallon

Mr.H wrote: »

Dudek was good at the start because he had Carson and Kirkland breathing down his neck

Dudek joined in '01, Carson came to the club in '05 (I think)

Mr.H

kfallon wrote: »

Dudek joined in '01, Carson came to the club in '05 (I think)

Yea sorry I wasnt clear enough. I meant Kirkland and then later Carson.

I just mean that we where signing players to challenge for the number one spot and not just as backups

Look at when we signed Reina we kept Dudek for another couple seasons as back up

Bandana boy

murpho999 wrote: »

My point is that people need to stop reverting to FSG as some knights in shining armour who bought the club and rescued it from the brink? No, it was a shrewd business decision designed to make them a lot of money .

Are they mutually exclusive , could they not be both

K-9

Mr.H wrote: »

My understanding is, when they came in they did with the intention of signing big cheques. But in a league where if we offer "player X" 100k a week, United will offer them 200k a week, its just not feasible to get into bidding wars for players that are in effect mercenaries.

Dont get me wrong players deserve their wages and deserve to seek the best wage they can get. But some players are purely in it for profit and not because they love to play.

Robbie Keane for example. The man loves to play. He strikes me as someone who would genuinely be playing sunday league football if he wasnt lucky enough to have the talent he does. Where players like Tevez (who talked about not really liking football) or Falcao who will even play for a side just promoted from the Ligue 2 just for the cash. Players like that make me doubt they would play for fun if they didnt do it as a job.

FSG spent big on (all cost over 18 million)
Carroll
Suarez
Firmino
Benteke
Lallana
Lovren
Markovic
Sakho
Downing

Then players costing over 10 million
Henderson
Sturridge
Borini
Allen
Mignolet
Moreno
Mario
Origi
Can
Clyne

I mean ffs come on people they are hardly holding back the cash are they?

Net spend!

Seriously, they seem to spend about £20-30 Million net on average, could be wrong but I'd say I'm not too far out.

United obviously spend way more than that, Arsenal these days, I'd expect Chelsea and City to spend big this Summer. So if we spend what we normally do we are at a disadvantage with maybe West Ham and Everton going on a splurge as well.

It looks like they've spent huge amounts, up there with anybody the last few years but that was all financed by Torres, Suarez and Sterling (literally), getting rid of Carroll, Downing, new commercial and TV deals. The owners put some money in and there's the Internet free loan for the stadium, but it isn't huge anounts barring the stadium.

K-9

NukaCola wrote: »

True, I'm not sure if any manager from a "top team" that wants a player has to pick one off a pre selected list though.....

Well apparently that will be different under Klopp.

Something needs to change because the transfer committee has been pretty poor the last 3 years or so. Indeed barring Coutinho and Sturridge over 3 years ago it has been a failure for the money it had to spend.

PaddyWilliams

:D Jaysus lads, it's like an episode of TOWIE in here today, the amount of side swipes, bitching and all round being at each others throats. Roll on Friday, some football on the tv box might cheer ye up

K-9

murpho999 wrote: »

Thank you for your business lesson. Do you really think that I thought we had £600m to spend? Bloody hell.

My point is that people need to stop reverting to FSG as some knights in shining armour who bought the club and rescued it from the brink? No, it was a shrewd business decision designed to make them a lot of money and that will happen when they eventually sell, which I believe could be sooner rather than later.
Now they get credit for refurbishing Anfield, which I am happy with but don’t forget it was the cheaper option and is also being financed by the club and paid back over time. It’s costing FSG nothing.

According to your logic about the staff being responsible then a manager should not be held responsible for his players’ perfromances or an MD for a club losing money.
The transfer committee is FSG’s idea, nobody else’s and it’s a failure. Why are you letting them off the hook about that?

I think that we have more money than we are spending by doing simple maths. Look at our transfer net spend, it’s tiny. FSG have hardly put any money into the club.

The club is making profits so the money is there.
Also, why is Ibra a mercenary?
One of the worlds’ top players, would walk into any side but we don’t want him because he’s a mercenary?
As for Vardy, I know of course it’s not going to happen but I would welcome him. Top scorer last season. If he’s good enough for Arsenal why isn’t he good enough for us?
I just picked him as an example of what we could be doing. These are the players we should be going for but we’re not.

As for the solution, I never said change the owners, I said what they are implementing is not working.
We are low-balling on transfers and missing out. Turning down good players for the saving a few million but wasting money on mediocre players because they have potential or resale value.

That needs to change.

I just don’t get why fans keep defending them and not realise what is going on.

That isn't going to change under FSG yet every Summer it's the same few posters shouting for marquee signings that are never going to happen. So it's pointless expecting different.

Mario was supposed to be a marquee signing and look how that worked out.

I suppose we are similar to the Spurs model, not shy in spending big from time to time but reliant on selling players to do that. We need a better squad of players to target CL and stay in it and that's a work in progress.

On Barrett, no mention of Benteke so going on that him and Mario would be out the door. There's a lot of ifs there about Sturridge, Origi and Ings though, but 2 CM's is good news. Leaves us over stocked in that area, 8/9 options? Stewart out on loan, Lucas and/or Allen gone too.

rob316

Don't have a problem with FSG, they don't take any money out the club and do spend a reasonable NET amount every season.

My problem is how it is spent, I much prefer a sporting director over this TC, to this day their is huge confusion on who actually gets the final say on these transfers and how much input the manager really has in the process. Hopefully that has changed under Klopp and I cant imagine he would stand for any less than that.

I don't want or expect "marquee" signings, I just want players that improve us whether they cost £1m or £40m I don't care. Young or old I don't care.

Selling Torres was the right idea, he was finished and nothing since has shown different.

You cant blame them for Suarez leaving, the money was huge, the desire of the player to leave couldn't be stopped and don't forget they also told Arsenal to get lost when they activated the buyout clause in his contract the summer before.

Sterling wanted to go and the relationship between manager, club and player had grown toxic. £50m so far looks cracking business for Liverpool but we will wait and see.

Selling Coutinho though would be different, he's still raw with a lot of potential, isn't pushing for a move and a key player for us. The backlash would be huge if he is sold, regardless of how big the fee is.

corwill

rob316 wrote: »

... to this day their is huge confusion on who actually gets the final say on these transfers and how much input the manager really has in the process. ...

Is that even by accident or unintentional? Sure, the DoF model was what they said they wanted at the outset, only ditching it at Rodgers' insistence (according to him). We've not heard any murmurs about now appointing a DoF since Rodgers' departure, and some time has now passed. Maybe at least some at the club/FSG find this opacity around transfers a bit convenient, in certain ways.

Would love to see Monchi, or someone like him, hired. Given FSG's previous position re. their preferred operating model, I wonder what the holdup is?

K-9

Ayre is going/gone? So maybe a DOF would come in now.

Agent Coulson

K-9 wrote: »

Ayre is going/gone? So maybe a DOF would come in now.

He signed a new contract and is staying on.

Harry Palmr

K-9 wrote: »

Ayre is going/gone? So maybe a DOF would come in now.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

He signed a new contract and is staying on.

He's on a one year rolling contract!

Nah, he is off May 2017 (when Michael Zorc arrives! )

Agent Coulson

It looks like Sakho asked UEFA himself to suspend him while they did the testing.

daithijjj

K-9 wrote: »

Net spend!

Seriously, they seem to spend about £20-30 Million net on average, could be wrong but I'd say I'm not too far out.

United obviously spend way more than that, Arsenal these days, I'd expect Chelsea and City to spend big this Summer. So if we spend what we normally do we are at a disadvantage with maybe West Ham and Everton going on a splurge as well.

It looks like they've spent huge amounts, up there with anybody the last few years but that was all financed by Torres, Suarez and Sterling (literally), getting rid of Carroll, Downing, new commercial and TV deals. The owners put some money in and there's the Internet free loan for the stadium, but it isn't huge anounts barring the stadium.

£160m net over last 5 seasons so about right.

The next point isnt addressed at yourself.

I wish more people could get their heads around the idea that you can spend 20m on 2 seperate players over 3 years and the difference in cost to the club could be 12 or 13m. You cant include xfer fee alone. Someone on 160kpw for example earns 12.5m more than the player who signs for 20m on 80k. We dont seem to have the inclination or bottle/clout to sign a truly coveted player. Apart from maybe Emre Can im struggling to pick one over the last 4 years.

Wages are key to any points made imo. Also, does anyone even trust who are negotiating deals on our behalf for players?. Do these persons/people have any clout at all?. Is that why we got Klopp? and consequently why Ayre is off?. Is he still going?, i have no idea. Anyway, i dont think we are in any worse position than we were, provided Klopp is the one choosing and not obeying some kind of silly strategic ritual like the signing of Markovic, which was all kinds of wrong for the squad we had at the time.

Anyway, we arent paying the wages upfront it seems, and regardless of who you are thats a continuous struggle. Problem with the strategy is you have to wade through quite a lot of players to find the ones you actually need but all the while having to play a few sub standard ones who wont manage to be able to do the job needed.

To be perfectly honest, i'd only keep around 5 or 6 of this squad, i think any of the rest can be improved upon easily enough. And the real issue is, can they be improved upon with the wages we are offering initially?. We probably can, easily, with Klopp. And thats indictment enough on what the set up was/currently might still be. Who knows!

5starpool

HardenendMan wrote: »

Personally I would prefer if Klopp built a team of unknowns costing around 3-6 mill each. There's something so rewarding about having players that are hungry and developed into stars rather than buying stars. I think we have one of the only managers in European football that can built a world class team in such a way.

It's a laudable idea, but if it was as easy as that, lots of others would be doing it successfully. Just because it somewhat happened at Dortmund doesn't mean there is even a reasonable chance of it happening again to that level of success.

Alonso77

Agent Coulson wrote: »

It looks like Sakho asked UEFA himself to suspend him while they did the testing.

I always thought UEFA was a she.

K-9

I can see where you're coming from daithi, I'd say in 2 years time we might have 6 or 7 of the squad here from last season, unless there is some drastic improvement because the transfers haven't been good enough for 3 years. Barring Coutinho there's no £40/50 Million player to sell because of that. Can could go for big enough money if he keeps developing but we need to be keeping and building on the ones we get right, they are few enough atm! To say we've wasted most of the Torres, Suarez and Sterling money isn't a dramatic over statement by any means.

The club still seems to be tight on wages despite the finances being in sound order. Barring Sturridge and Milner is anybody on over 100k, even 80k. We are blessed Coutinho isn't a gold digger!

Like who of our signings could we count as successful or even good from the last 3 years?

Clyne, Sakho (debatable), Can and er, that's about it.

Firmino looks good but too early to say.

Mignolet poor, Moreno poor, Lovren not great, Toure fine, Milner fine but just a squad option really Lallana the same, Markovic a disaster (yeah, he might get a chance), fcuking Mario and Benteke, it's a disaster.

Ings, Origi and Gomez look good but we don't know. The youth system seems to have dried up after Sterling came through and when is that going to happen again.

Ah fcuk, I just give up!

The one shining light is Klopp, I'd say attracting players was a big part of FSG bringing him here, but if big, competitive financial packages aren't going to be offered it limits even that.

Another reason to stay away from the PL, other leagues don't have crazy wages to raise when they come here.

The only thing about wages though is all PL clubs have to stick to strict wage limits so a City, Chelsea or even an Everton with new owners can't drastically up wages in one go. The effect of that are most PL clubs having wages under control compared to 5 years ago, though really that's the TV money rather than any cost cutting or sound management. It's the clubs that spend big to come up that have the problems there, they are betting on staying up. Burnley the notable exception recently.

OwaynOTT

Yep, we either pay big transfer fees with lowish wages or small to free transfer fees and large wages and both aren't usually working out.

To be honest we need to be signing players who aren't happy just to be at Liverpool but see the club as a great opportunity to showcase themselves into getting a bigger club (currently in regards to wages and recent success).
Not players who seen the club as their promised land, their plateau, their zenith etc. Players where the clubs above us don't want.
The likes of Lallana, Milner, Hederson.
No one above us want those and they know that. They also know by just being at Liverpool, they've a great chance of getting England caps.
They're not motivated enough to bust their balls.
Sign the ***** that don't want us now for the long term but will help us get the next wave of c*nts for the long term.

NukaCola

Klopp will try to build a squad greater than the sum of its parts. Thats how he operates. Thats what made him a successful manager. There will be no marquee signings unless they fit Klopps system.

Kerrigooney

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Yep, we either pay big transfer fees with lowish wages or small to free transfer fees and large wages and both aren't usually working out.

To be honest we need to be signing players who aren't happy just to be at Liverpool but see the club as a great opportunity to showcase themselves into getting a bigger club (currently in regards to wages and recent success).
Not players who seen the club as their promised land, their plateau, their zenith etc. Players where the clubs above us don't want.
The likes of Lallana, Milner, Hederson.
No one above us want those and they know that. They also know by just being at Liverpool, they've a great chance of getting England caps.
They're not motivated enough to bust their balls.
Sign the ***** that don't want us now for the long term but will help us get the next wave of c*nts for the long term.

You've probably picked the 3 players that bust their balls the most there.

NukaCola

I'm warming to Lallana and Milner a lot, but I am worried about Henderson......at times he could pick out a pass and his form has completely dropped, probably down to injury, i hope it improves.....

OwaynOTT

Kerrigooney wrote: »

You've probably picked the 3 players that bust their balls the most there.

bust their balls with an end result. Only Milner has been doing that on a semi regular basis. Lallana often has no explosion for all his ball busting.
Henderson, has t been great since the year we nearly won the league and before that with Kenny he wasn't the blowing it up big time either.
Obviously the injury has many his performances lately have been a bit limp.

Desire to go one more, to better themselves. I don't think Lallana, Henderson and Milner have that.
Milner as he's on the way down. Lallana, I think has reached his zenit.
Their tryers but we need more like Can and Firmino.
I doubt they see themselves ending their career at Liverpool, they'd be hoping to go up the food chain.
I didn't mean to discredit the work of the other 3 I mentioned. The heat is getting to me, as I meant, those who will look to perform as they think they are better than Liverpool not those who think they can't go any further. Or we at least need to add more of those around that other trio, pushing them into the bench.

And I don't think, I could have gotten anymore innuendo into that first bit.

K-9

Desire not to better themselves is a bit strong. Don't think it applies to Milner as he's at a different stage of his career, and he showed a lot the last few months.

Henderson is worrying wit the injury. He's a player that should suit Klopp but it's hard for me to write him off just yet.

Hollister11

I like Henderson, but it wouldn't bother me if we sold him.

If Henderson shakes off his injures he'll flourish under Klopp.

I'd prefer if he had the summer off tbh

OwaynOTT

K-9 wrote: »

Desire not to better themselves is a bit strong. Don't think it applies to Milner as he's at a different stage of his career, and he showed a lot the last few months.

Henderson is worrying wit the injury. He's a player that should suit Klopp but it's hard for me to write him off just yet.

They know they can't do better than Liverpool is what I mean. They're content. Contentment breeds mediocrity.
I want feckers who are never happy, who want to use the club to further themselves.

Kerrigooney

OwaynOTT wrote: »

They know they can't do better than Liverpool is what I mean. They're content. Contentment breeds mediocrity.
I want feckers who are never happy, who want to use the club to further themselves.

I'm with ya now.

The heat has my brain fried as well.

Hollister11

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I'm with ya now.

The heat has my brain fried as well.

The heat is just to much.

K-9

OwaynOTT wrote: »

They know they can't do better than Liverpool is what I mean. They're content. Contentment breeds mediocrity.
I want feckers who are never happy, who want to use the club to further themselves.

It isn't exclusive though. Having players who want to experience nights like Dortmund at Anfield and maybe that's the most they achieve, isn't a bad thing.

Kuyt for example was a player like that, nothing wrong with it. The likes of Mario would annoy me more.

I don't know, a Hazard type might not be great at Liverpool, great player as he is. Coutinho would but he seems rare in, what I suppose we forget, are often career mercenaries these days.

OwaynOTT

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I'm with ya now.

The heat has my brain fried as well.

I was lying though, nothing to do with the heat. The truth is, I'm a big flipping eejit.

OwaynOTT

K-9 wrote: »

It isn't exclusive though. Having players who want to experience nights like Dortmund at Anfield and maybe that's the most they achieve, isn't a bad thing.

Kuyt for example was a player like that, nothing wrong with it. The likes of Mario would annoy me more.

I don't know, a Hazard type might not be great at Liverpool, great player as he is. Coutinho would but he seems rare in, what I suppose we forget, are often career mercenaries these days.

Played like Dirk are rare though, as not everyone can score hat tricks against Utd.