At what point did you start considering yourself a musician?

Lazare

We never stop learning how to play an instrument, in my case it's guitar with the piano trailing way behind it.

At what point do we go from a beginner to referring to ourselves as musicians though?

Feel like I'm at a point of progression now with the guitar that I can maybe start thinking of myself as a musician. I say 'thinking' because I don't feel confident enough to actually say it.

When did you 'become' a musician? Was it a gradual realisation or an overnight revelation?

Rigsby

I don't think about labels. Anyone who makes music can be called a "musician"...regardless of their virtuosity...or lack of it.

I prefer to just keep on learning as best I can, to enjoy playing, and not think about such things. When people hear me play, they can decide for themselves what label to apply.

Lazare

Rigsby wrote: »

I don't think about labels. Anyone who makes music can be called a "musician"...regardless of their virtuosity...or lack of it.

I prefer to just keep on learning as best I can, to enjoy playing, and not think about such things. When people hear me play, they can decide for themselves what label to apply.

Do you consider yourself a musician though? If so, at what point did you start to?
That's what I'm asking, I'm not overly concerned about how other people feel, I'm more interested in the moment a musician realises he/she is no longer a beginner.

Nervous Wreck

A beginner musician is still a musician. I considered myself a musician from the moment I played my first chord. An awful musician for a long time but a musician nonetheless.

Rigsby

Lazare wrote: »

Do you consider yourself a musician though? If so, at what point did you start to?

As I mentioned earlier (and I agree with Nervous Wreck's post), a musician (to me anyway) is someone (anyone) who creates music, regardless of how he does it or how good/bad it sounds. So the postman going about his business whistling to himself is a musician.

With that in mind, I never give the subject a second thought.

Nervous Wreck

Rigsby wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier (and I agree with Nervous Wreck's post), a musician (to me anyway) is someone (anyone) who creates music, regardless of how he does it or how good/bad it sounds. So the postman going about his business whistling to himself is a musician.

With that in mind, I never give the subject a second thought.

I agree with this also.

doolox

Thats when you can be considered a musician.

Rigsby

doolox wrote: »

Thats when you can be considered a musician.

That... (being payed to play)... is a different topic altogether IMO, and opens up a whole new can of worms about what constitutes a professional musician.

KeithTS

When I started getting paid to play my instrument I started to consider myself a musician.
A label means nothing, if you work in a library you're a librarian, if you play music you're a musician.

It's not about being good or bad for me, I consider the term musician to be a job title, nothing else.

Rigsby

KeithTS wrote: »

When I started getting paid to play my instrument I started to consider myself a musician.
.

It would follow on from this, that someone who is not paid is not a musician.

There are lots of great non paid people out there creating music who are as good as, if not better than their professional counter parts.

Just goes to prove how futile and pointless this analysing of labels really is.

Lazare

I guess the term means something a little different to me. I certainly wouldn't have considered myself a musician when I learned how to play my first chord. I was just someone learning to play guitar. I'm interested in when people internally progressed from that mindset, as it currently feels like an important progression for me, for confidence in myself and general enjoyment.

I don't agree either that you need to be professional in order to be a musician, as was said there are vastly more people creating great music for no $ than are being paid.

Rigsby

Lazare wrote: »

I guess the term means something a little different to me.

Yes, you seem to attach more importance to the term "musician," where other posters (myself included) never think about it.

To each their own.

Lazare

Rigsby wrote: »

Yes, you seem to attach more importance to the term "musician," where other posters (myself included) never think about it.

To each their own.

Cool. Hopefully I'll get a reply from somebody who has thought of it.

Cheers though.

noby

If I had to think about it, it was probably when I played with other musicians. No paid gig, just a jam, but to be in a room with people I would consider musicians, and to be treated as an equal felt like a step up from just noodling in my bedroom to guitarist/musician.

In saying that:
a) I had played in front of people before, at parties etc., and
b) I play electronic music at home - not for anyone, and not shared with anyone. Does that make me feel like less of a musician? No.

Logic, eh?

Rigsby

Lazare wrote: »

Cool. Hopefully I'll get a reply from somebody who has thought of it.

As a matter of interest, and to turn the question around slightly, can you tell us why you feel that what label you put on yourself is so important ?

In your OP, you talk about "a point of progression." IMO this is an elusive concept. It is almost impossible to measure progress. It's like trying to monitor your hair growing. You don't notice anything for a long time, then one day you look in the mirror and realise you need a hair cut.

Also, assuming a person wants to call themselves a musician, how does this help them in any way ?

Obviously you dont have to respond to any of the above if you don't wish to. You are entitled to, and I respect your opinion. I am just mildly curious as to why calling yourself a "musician" seems so important to you, as I have never come across say...a carpenter, plumber, sculptor...etc who attaches the same importance to labels.

Lazare

Rigsby wrote: »

As a matter of interest, and to turn the question around slightly, can you tell us why you feel that what label you put on yourself is so important ?

In your OP, you talk about "a point of progression." IMO this is an elusive concept. It is almost impossible to measure progress. It's like trying to monitor your hair growing. You don't notice anything for a long time, then one day you look in the mirror and realise you need a hair cut.

I guess it feels important to me because it's a mindset I've been chasing for the last five years, at times doubting I'd ever get there. It feels like a personal accomplishment. True, 'a point of progression' is probably the wrong way to term it, it's been a slow realisation over the last year or so. I can compare easily my standard of playing against how I played say 18 months ago. Similar to Noby I think my first jam was also the start of the realisation.

Rigsby wrote: »

Also, assuming a person wants to call themselves a musician, how does this help them in any way ?

Hmmm, I don't really think of it that way. I suppose it gives me a little more confidence in myself and my abilities to now think of myself as a musician when two years ago I certainly would not have. As I said upthread, I attach a different meaning to the term than other posters here, I see it like progressing from an apprentice to qualified, where at the apprentice stage you're just a guy learing the guitar.


Cheers dude, for making me explore my mind. My OP was booze fuelled and on the back of three hours of jamming to Chicago Blues, you've made me think about it with a more restrained mind.

Lazare

Lazare wrote: »

I see it like progressing from an apprentice to qualified, where at the apprentice stage you're just a guy learing the guitar.

Btw, I'm not attaching any measurable standard to this, just my own. I've no opinion or thoughts on whether someone else I hear playing is a muso or not, it's purely a personal thing.

Rigsby

Lazare wrote: »

I guess it feels important to me because it's a mindset I've been chasing for the last five years, at times doubting I'd ever get there.

You make some interesting points. I just isolated this one. Why the need or want to get... "there" ? To me, this is yet another elusive concept. The music learning journey is a lifetime one where getting "there" never happens. I have often read where amazing musicians who have being playing for decades will readily admit to still having a lot to learn. This is what keeps them fresh and enthusiastic. If we all knew that we were going be "there" say...in a year's time, we might find ourselves thinking.."what'll I do after that...no where else to go...the end of the line.." On the other hand if you think in terms of learning something new every day, and being glad you discovered it, you can look forward to more of the same for as long as you are interested in learning.

Think about it...does the above mindset sound more interesting and accommodating than constantly beating yourself up about reaching some elusive "goal" ?

Lazare

Rigsby wrote: »

You make some interesting points. I just isolated this one. Why the need or want to get... "there" ? To me, this is yet another elusive concept. The music learning journey is a lifetime one where getting "there" never happens. I have often read where amazing musicians who have being playing for decades will readily admit to still having a lot to learn. This is what keeps them fresh and enthusiastic. If we all knew that we were going be "there" say...in a year's time, we might find ourselves thinking.."what'll I do after that...no where else to go...the end of the line.." On the other hand if you think in terms of learning something new every day, and being glad you discovered it, you can look forward to more of the same for as long as you are interested in learning.

Think about it...does the above mindset sound more interesting and accommodating than constantly beating yourself up about reaching some elusive "goal" ?

Oh I 100% agree with that, I don't at all feel I've 'got there', I totally understand that an instrument isn't solvable.

What I mean by 'getting there' is getting to a point where I can just play, getting certain fundamentals locked into muscle memory, the pentatonic scale, picking patterns, chord changes etc..

It actually feels more like the start of a journey of learning now than it did when I first picked the guitar up. That's exciting.

Rigsby

Lazare wrote: »

What I mean by 'getting there' is getting to a point where I can just play, getting certain fundamentals locked into muscle memory, the pentatonic scale, picking patterns, chord changes etc..

It's impossible to put a time limit on this. Everyone learns at their own pace. Other factors include how often you practice and the type of practice. It takes as long as it takes. Putting pressure and frustration on yourself by thinking.."I should reach "X" point by "Y" time..." is counter productive. Even when you do nail all the above things, that's only the tip of the iceberg. There will always be more to learn. This is what I mean by "there" being a figment of your imagination and not worth getting uptight about.

Relax...and enjoy the learning journey.

Halloween Jack

In fairness the question posed by th op is something I've considered myself in a slightly different way, I've been playing guitar for about 5 years on and off, if somebody asked me can I play the guitar I would answer yes, but if somebody asked me if I was a musician I would probably say no. The reason for this being there are too many things I can't do that i feel a musician should be able to do, I can't read or write music, I don't have a great ear, my timing can go to pot at times etc... Basically I don't consider myself to have the fluency of a musician yet, it's coming though whether it's next year or a long time from now I'll enjoy getting there;)

endacl

Been playing something for as long as I can remember. I have no idea what the question means. People refer to me as a musician, but I don't think of myself as one. I get paid to play, and still don't. I might leave the guitar alone for a few weeks when I'm too busy at other stuff/don't really feel like it. I don't feel like 'not a musician' then.

Rigsby

Halloween Jack wrote: »

if somebody asked me if I was a musician I would probably say no. The reason for this being there are too many things I can't do that i feel a musician should be able to do, I can't read or write music, I don't have a great ear, my timing can go to pot at times etc...

As I mentioned earlier, I don't go in for labels like "musician". It's obvious that you do, so tell me where it is written in stone that you must have the above qualities to label yourself in this way ? Can you also explain the need for this label ?

For example Paul McCartney has admitted that he can't read music (see link below). So...going by your criteria, he is not a musician ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca_GCvApODg

Halloween Jack

Rigsby wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier, I don't go in for labels like "musician". It's obvious that you do, so tell me where it is written in stone that you must have the above qualities to label yourself in this way ? Can you also explain the need for this label ?

For example Paul McCartney has admitted that he can't read music (see link below). So...going by your criteria, he is not a musician ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca_GCvApODg

It's not really about a label, if somebody else can do exactly what I can do on their instrument and they consider themselves a musician that's fine by me. I suppose what I really feel makes you a musician is being able to communicate ideas/concepts/melodies feelings via your instrument, or translating something you can hear in your head etc I'm not there yet. I can play plenty of licks up and down my guitar neck but Id struggle for example trying to plaY them in such a way that outlines an emotion etc.

The reading music Thing is actually neither here with that in mind I suppose

Rigsby

Halloween Jack wrote: »

.
The reading music Thing is actually neither here with that in mind I suppose

For me...neither are the other points you talk about, especially the ..."I'm not "there" yet"... one. I addressed the "getting there" point earlier in the thread.

How I view plying music (YMMV) is to keep on practicing on a regular basis, do the best I can, and not think about or analyse the accademic side of it. Otherwise, frustration can set in.