Still trying to figure it all out.

hot buttered scones

Singer wrote: »

Based on my experience at last year's DCM, don't change the goal.

Maybe it's ok to change it up around 22 miles in

22 miles is just when the hills end!! In my dreams that's when I open my stride and cruise home at 10k pace for the last 4 miles.
In reality it's where my dreams will be crushed and I'll be left run-walking at slower than recovery pace because I got notions around mile 6 that I could run a 3:05 no bother, even though it was 23 degrees!!
I'll probably win the f***ing thing.

yaboya1

Have to agree with the two lads. Your training is going well and you should get yourself a decent pb in Cork by the looks of it. Don't go and blow it now by chasing an unrealistic target. A very painful second half is what almost certainly awaits if you do, in my opinion. Not the result you would want after such a solid build up.


p.s. I wouldn't agree with those calculators anyway. There are very few who hit the predicted times for the marathon based off any shorter race times, but especially ones as short as 6m.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you're hovering around 70 minutes for two recent 10 mile races. I'd be shocked if you could run sub 3:10 off that. That is not a criticism, just an honest observation. We're talking about just over ten seconds per mile slower for more than 2.5 times the distance. It's unlikely.
Feel free to ignore, but I know I'd prefer if people gave me the same feedback.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

hot buttered scones

yaboya1 wrote: »

Have to agree with the two lads. Your training is going well and you should get yourself a decent pb in Cork by the looks of it. Don't go and blow it now by chasing an unrealistic target. A very painful second half is what almost certainly awaits if you do, in my opinion. Not the result you would want after such a solid build up.


p.s. I wouldn't agree with those calculators anyway. There are very few who hit the predicted times for the marathon based off any shorter race times, but especially ones as short as 6m.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you're hovering around 70 minutes for two recent 10 mile races. I'd be shocked if you could run sub 3:10 off that. That is not a criticism, just an honest observation. We're talking about just over ten seconds per mile slower for more than 2.5 times the distance. It's unlikely.
Feel free to ignore, but I know I'd prefer if people gave me the same feedback.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

All feedback is welcome in this log, so thanks. I suppose I've been messing about a bit with talk of sub 3:10s and so on, but I'm just having a bit of a laugh. I've no intentions of doing anything other than going out with the 3:15 pacers and then either hanging on for dear life or, if I'm feeling good at mile 22 pushing on a small bit.
To be fair to me though that first 10 miler in Dungarvan was in January and was an absolute shocker. I probably shouldn't have run it, or certainly not at the pace I tried running at - training had been patchy at best over the previous few weeks, and it just wasn't indicative of my current ability. As for Ballycotton - well that was a bit of a disappointment too (as in it was a minute off my PB from the previous year), but still an improvement of 2 minutes over Dungarvan. Since Dungarvan I've been a lot more consistent. A PB in the UCC 10k in April showed a return to form.
As for the 6 miler the other night - well that was just one of those nights were everything goes right and you get a result that surprises even yourself. Yes, I'd be foolish to change things up now for Cork based on this result. But maybe no so foolish to think that I could be a bit more ambitious for an Autumn marathon than I would have been previously (provided Cork goes well of course). Of course this result may be as much of an anomaly as I feel Dungarvan was, albeit a good one.
Plus it's Cork - weather will play a huge factor on what I decide to do on the day - the heat affected me badly during the half last year. I won't get anywhere near 3:15 if it affects like that again this year. The course changes have also increased the difficulty of this race imo. Cards on the table - I'm good for a 3:15 - 3:20 if I'm clever and don't do anything stupid and nothing goes wrong. Even at that the 2nd half is going to be tough so there's no point in making it worse.


I'm not disagreeing with you about the 10 milers - I'm just in a lot better shape now than I was back then.
As for the calculators McMillan gives me the following:

|PB|PB Date|10k predicts|10m predicts|HM predicts|Marathon predicts
5k|15/6/16|19:58|19:58|19:51|19:51|20:42
10k|2/4/17|41:28|-|41:13|41:12|43:00
10m|6/3/16|01:08:53|1:09:18|-|1:08:52|1:11:52
HM|18/9/16|1:31:52|1:32:37|1:31:53|-|1:35:52
25k|17/4/16|1:50:32|1:51:03|1:50:23|1:50:22|1:55:10
Marathon|30/10/16|3:21:45|3:14:33|3:13:22|3:13:20|-


I think everything up to 25k is close enough. The Marathon is the big outlier here and I'd like to rectify that - before messing it all up again and getting faster at the shorter races, and then bringing the marathon back in line again, and so on!!

yaboya1

Yeah, that's fair enough. Your equivalent 10k time the other night (40:12) would suggest 3:15 is the correct goal and fairly realistic. I had recent (good) runs of 39:07 (10k) & 1:26 (HM) ahead of running a 3:08 in Seville, which is why I was suggesting some caution in relation to the calculators. I thought you might find the perspective useful, because the marathon is also my major outlier.

hot buttered scones

Saturday 13/5

In between night shifts - 6 recovery@9:32.

Rolling 7 day total: 72.4

Sunday 14/5

10@8:21. Got out late enough for this. 2.5 miles on the roads, then around 20 500m loops on a circular tarmac path, then home. Some of the miles in the middle were a bit faster than average, but I tend to speed up when I'm running around in circles. Dunno why - I just lose focus I think.

Rolling 7 day total: 60.4

Monday 15/5

5@8:47 - neither easy nor recovery. Mostly on trails/hardcore paths in a local park. The weather was rubbish, put there was plenty of shelter from the trees down there.

Rollind 7 day total: 60.4

I'm putting off today's run until this evening. Feeling a bit off today - I probably just need a rest. I don't usually try and do run streaks, but I've now run for 25 consecutive days, and covered 225 miles in that time. The notion of keeping the streak alive is tempting, but I have a taper to think of, so there will be a day off this week.

hot buttered scones

yaboya1 wrote: »

Yeah, that's fair enough. Your equivalent 10k time the other night (40:12) would suggest 3:15 is the correct goal and fairly realistic. I had recent (good) runs of 39:07 (10k) & 1:26 (HM) ahead of running a 3:08 in Seville, which is why I was suggesting some caution in relation to the calculators. I thought you might find the perspective useful, because the marathon is also my major outlier.

Ha!! The mind is a wonderful thing. When I read your comments first, I completely understood where you were coming from, but disagreed slightly with your analysis (I did find the perspective useful). I suppose I was still buzzing from that good race and from the long run I'd done. I woke up today feeling like muck. I haven't run yet today and really don't know if I'll bother. I now find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with your analysis and seriously doubting my own!!! If there's going to be any goal changes now they'll be slower goals, not faster. What the hell was I thinking - singing up for 2 marathons this year! I don't even like running (well not today anyway ).

hot buttered scones

Tuesday 16/5

Headed out in the pm for 5.3 mile with 8x15s hills. I couldn't decide between short hills or strides, so seeing as the route was a bit hilly I did the hills. Average pace (including hills) 8:09. I felt very good doing the hills - although the hill was not that steep. Poor sleep the night before though.

Rolling 7 day total: 60.7

Wednesday 17/5
12.1 miles@8:29, with a few easyish hills. I felt mostly rubbish for this. The plan had 14@MP, but the advice given was to push this forward by a couple of days. To be honest I wouldn't have been able for it today - I felt absolutely wrecked all day before, during and after this run. Another bad sleep. My breathing wasn't great either - I felt a bit hayfevery, which I hadn't done for a few weeks now. I didn't really want to do this run (and probably shouldn't have) - but it was my last day off from work and in the end I just decided to get it done.
Physio in the afternoon - she said everything was fine, but still got out the needles anyway - calves, glutes, tfl and one b4st4rd one into the right quad. I was hobbling around all night after it.

Rolling 7 day total: 62.8

Thursday 18/5

Rest day. All good thing must come to an end, so the (ill judged) streak comes to an end after 27 days and 242.5 miles. Well needed. I had a much better sleep last night and can really feel the difference today already. I'd also fallen back into the trap off just not eating enough during the day and eating crap late at night. So poor sleep, poor nutrition, poor hydration, no rest days and probably too many miles = overcooking it (too say the least). I hope I can take the appropriate steps to turn things around - so no running today, plenty of sleep last night, plenty of food (not great food, but not bad food either) and plenty of water - I'm starting to feel human again. I'll be playing by ear from now on. If I feel up to it I'll do the prescribed run, otherwise I'll just run easy.

Rolling 7 day total: 59.6

On the nutrition front - lets' just say there's been a few gastro issues of late, so when I wake up I'm often not hungry or just feel a bit sick. Any tips on quick easy healthy calories. For reference:
A good day would be porridge for breakfast, scrambled eggs (4 or 5) and toast or a sandwich for lunch. Dinner would be pasta or a rice dish or just meat, veg and spuds. There might be more bread/leftovers/pasta in the evening if I'm still hungry. A bad day - coffee for breakfast, maybe toast or nothing for lunch and freezer crap for dinner (lazy) with more freezer crap later on or even just biscuits, crisps and the like. Days after night shifts finish are usually the worst. Work days are ok, but with dinner in the middle of the day and lunch at tea time (sandwich, fruit, yoghurt, flapjack). I usually manage to eat well around long runs, but let it slide midweek more.
I already know one of the answer - don't be lazy. I suppose what I want too know is if anybody has any quick, easy, nutritious snacks that are easy to digest and also what's the best thing to eat in the evening to kill that hunger, but not leave me feeling full in the morning. Weetabix maybe?

JohnDozer

I'd have one of the worst diets too. Not that dissimilar to what you outlined, if not worse. With the last couple of months I've been putting a bit more effort in. The best and easiest thing I found is the homemade granola bars. Great flexibility with ingredients and taste adjustments. Also found out yesterday you can put protein powder in them too so it's win:win. Very little baking required! You already eat porridge so you're not averse to the main ingredient

hot buttered scones

JohnDozer wrote:

I'd have one of the worst diets too. Not that dissimilar to what you outlined, if not worse. With the last couple of months I've been putting a bit more effort in. The best and easiest thing I found is the homemade granola bars. Great flexibility with ingredients and taste adjustments. Also found out yesterday you can put protein powder in them too so it's win:win. Very little baking required! You already eat porridge so you're not averse to the main ingredient

I left out the kebabs and curry chips!! 😀

JohnDozer

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I left out the kebabs and curry chips!! 😀

As long as there is salad in the kebab you're grand! Focus on the positives...

hillsiderunner

hot buttered scones wrote: »

curry chips!! 😀

Lots of good carbs in curry chips, nothing wrong with those *at all*.

hot buttered scones

Friday 19/5

5.3 easy@8:18. Was able to get this done before work. I was still a bit sore in spots form the dry needling, but my energy levels had greatly increased - the rest day and a good nights sleep had worked wonders.

Rolling 7 day total: 44 miles

Saturday 20/5

16 miles with 14@MP

The plan had 14@MP on Wednesday and 16 long run today, but I was advised to push the 14@MP out further in the week and to do a warm up and cool down. I'll be honest here - I was not looking forward to this at all. I did everything to delay getting out the door. I had a lie in. I had a late breakfast and I had several "just one more" cups of coffee. In the end I didn't get started until about 12:30. I picked a flat enough route for this - out the Straight Road and back, then back up the Mardyke to the North Gate Bridge, around by the Mercy Hospital and back out the Straight Road finishing with a loop of the Lee Fields. I had made a deal with myself to run slightly slower than MP, and see how i felt after 8 miles and probably finish at 10 and have a long cool down to make 16 miles total. In the end I did none of that, running slightly faster than MP for most of the miles, and from 10 miles@ MP on I just say to myself "see how you feel after this mile" until there was no more MP miles left! The MP miles were comfortable, if not a bit hard at times but I never felt like I was pushing it too hard at any stage. Average HR for each MP mile was from 158 to 167 at the end (there's one mile in the middle at 172 but my HR plot shows an unusual rise during this mile which is a sign of cadence lock). I was very happy with this run when I finished, and it did wonders for my flagging confidence. Again I found my pace drifting towards the faster end of the range and I had to make an effort to reign it back in at times. As usual, there was bit of headwind, tailwind stuff going on but this didn't really effect the pace, but the effort did feel easier with the tailwind at times. The weather was near perfect other than that - about 13-14 degrees, the odd drop of rain and not very muggy. The wind was cooling, but was a bit annoying when it picked up - but overall ok. I'd love a day like that next Sunday week.

Splits: Goal MP=7:26. Watch was set to 7:20-7:30
Warm up: 8:32
14@MP: 7:20; 7:18; 7:22; 7:19; 7:19; 7:24; 7:23; 7:21; 7:19; 7:14; 7:20; 7:18; 7:24; 7:18
Cool Down: 1.1miles@8:34

It was only when I'd finished I noticed an error I'd made with my Bodyglide application - a big red spot on my t shirt. I'd gotten soaked during the first few miles which doesn't help with that sort of thing. I had noticed myself getting a few odd looks though, so this must be why!! I didn't feel anything at the time though, so that's a plus.

Rolling 7 day total: 54.1 miles

Sunday 21/5

5.2 recovery@8:57. I did pick up the pace for the last 400m or so of the 5th mile to around HMP just for a bit of a shake out. Led Zepplin might also have had something to so with it . A nice enjoyable run before work this evening. I did feel a bit sore and stiff when I got up today - but nothing major. However my energy levels were fine and I didn't feel any residual fatigue from yesterdays run. I'll be tasking another rest day tomorrow as the taper gets into full swing so no running, but I'll do some Foam rolling and stretching in the evening. Not long now!!

Weekly total/rolling 7 day total: 49.3 miles
MTD: 177.5 miles
YTD: 976.5 miles

hot buttered scones

Monday 22/5

Rest

Rolling 7 day total: 44.3 miles

Tuesday 23/5

5@8:19 with 6x100m strides in mile 4. Done mostly on grass/trails with the strides on a lumpy Corpo excuse for a pitch. Fairly humid day, but the heat didn't seem to effect me too much

Rolling 7 day total: 43.9 miles

Wednesday 24/5

10 with 8@MP

Out to Blarney again for this - it's become one of my favourite spots for running. Parked up at the start of the Sl? na Slainte by Killeens and went from there down to the village. Dis 4 laps around he village and back to the car. An Ok session but I overdid the MP bits slightly again. Goal MP=7:25

Splits: 8:34; 7:21; 7:20; 7:20; 7:19; 7:18; 7:20; 7:20; 7:21; 8:37

I didn't end up going out for this until after 3pm and it was quite warm and humid, but again it didn't seem to affect me that much, or at least as much as usual. Wearing a singlet instead of a t shirt probably helped

Rolling 7 day total: 41.8 miles

Thursday 25/5

5 recovery@9:27. Just a sweaty jog round the park.

Rolling 7 day total: 46.8

Friday 26/5

Rest

Rolling 7 day total: 41.5 miles

Saturday 27/5

4 miles@8:39 early before work - 1000 miles in the bag a month earlier than last year. I felt a bit sluggish for this, but that's not unusual for me on some of these early morning runs

Rolling 7 day total: 29.4 miles

Sunday 28/5

Another warm, clammy day with a bit of wind there - it constantly seemed to be blowing against me even though I was doing an out and back stretch.

12 miles @8:23. I was fairly tired doing this and it took me 3 or 4 miles to get into it. I felt a bit creaky and stiff and just a bit flat. I'm starting to wonder if I've overdone the taper.

Rolling 7 day/weekly total: 36.1 miles

Taper madness hasn't really struck - I've been a bit busy this week with other stuff and haven't really thought about it. There's always next week though.

hot buttered scones

Monday 29/5

Rest

Rolling 7 day total: 36.1 miles

Tuesday 30/5

The plan has 5 miles with3@MP on Wednesday - but that's for a Monday marathon, so seeing as how my marathon is on Sunday I thought I;d do it today instead. The BHAA John Buckley Sports 5k was on down the Marina so I decided I'd head off into that to do some MP miles in a race environment. It's great race, which I missed last year so I was looking forward to just going down and meeting a few people and taking in the atmosphere. A chip timed race for €5 - get value too!
I did a quick easy mile to warm up after registration and only had to wait around 4 or 5 minutes before the start. I ran the first 400m or so with a friend of mine, but he took off so I just eased off and stuck to my plan - 7:21, 7:21, 7:24. Ok, so the first 2 miles were a bit fast, but I felt comfortable all the same. I honestly got a bit bored during the third mile, so I when I hit the mile 3 marker I just put the foot down and sprinted home - last 0.12 in 32 seconds at 4:54 pace accord to Garmin Connect.
I cooled down with another mile back to registration@8:50.
A few things about this. I'd just been reading Magness' Science of Running the day before - the section where he talks about feedback. This felt easy enough and it was strange because most of the runners around me were running at their 5k pace - somehow noticing the effort they were putting in did not relate to how I was feeling at the time, when usually in a race environment your running at more or less the same effort level as others around you. What I'm trying to say is I think this mini session would have felt harder had I gone out on my own to do it.
I felt like a bit of messer to be honest and was conscious to not interfere with anyones race. I also felt like a right tool at the end after the sprint finish - bad form from me I think, and I won't be doing that again. You live and learn.

Rolling 7 day total: 36.2 miles

Wednesday 31/5

4 easy@8:35 in the evening. I took it easy all day and popped out an hour after dinner for this. Every niggle i ever had, have or will have came out to visit me today. This taper is proving to be just one were I seem to be getting stiff and tired. I'm just itching to go out and have a good decent run that seems worth getting changed for. And yet I still have the same amount of washing to do???

Rolling 7 day total: 30.3

Thursday 01/06

4 easy@8:40, late morning. Oh my God, I'm so bored. This is crap. Why did I ever bloody sign up for a marathon in the first place. I really couldn't be a-rsed at this stage. And why am I so f0cking hungry? I've hardly been running at all lately. I think I've put on about 3kg in the last week. Which is worse a DNS or DNF? I'm dying for a beer. My feet are sore and my right a-rse cheek is hanging off me. This is f0ckin stupid. I hate running. Where's the food? I can't believe I have to start this sh1te all over again 5 weeks time.

Rolling 7 day total: 29.3 miles.

denis b

Hope I am not in too early with this M but the absolute very best on Sunday. Looks as though the Marathon Weather Gods may favour you as well. Put all the energy to good use and have a race to tell us about.

Take care.

Kennyg71

Have a great race, and remember if your enjoying it your not working hard enough

diego_b

Best of luck for the race, hope you nail it!

Singer

All the best HBS, hope you have a great race.

DFIU

hot buttered scones

denis b wrote: »

Hope I am not in too early with this M but the absolute very best on Sunday. Looks as though the Marathon Weather Gods may favour you as well. Put all the energy to good use and have a race to tell us about.

Take care.

Kennyg71 wrote: »

Have a great race, and remember if your enjoying it your not working hard enough

diego_b wrote: »

Best of luck for the race, hope you nail it!

Singer wrote: »

All the best HBS, hope you have a great race.

DFIU

Cheers Lads. I'm looking forward to it now. I've had a couple of decent sleeps and I've been eating well and hydrating. I'd a dose of hayfever earlier on in the week, but dumping the lilies that were on the kitchen table seems to have fixed that! I must confess to having a sneaky beer last night - just the one mind - which served as a decent nightcap. I'm definitely wired though - I tore out the whole downstairs of the house yesterday in a mad fit of cleaning.:eek: I think the mrs and kids were a bit worried!! I'll pop out in a minute for an easy 20 minutes or so before heading into pick up my race number. In a change to my usual pre race routine I'll be dining on spuds, veg and chicken tonight rather than pasta - it seems to have worked well for me on my long runs and on any pre breakfast runs during this training block. I've a theory that the spuds suit us better than pasta anyway!! The weather looks like is going to be good, although the forecast for the wind seems to be getting stronger - but this means I'll have a 5m/s wind at my back for the last 5k to push me home!

adrian522

Very best of luck, I'm sure you'll nail it!

martyboy48

Have a good one M, Hope it goes well for you

jake1970

Best of luck tomorrow HBS. Trust in your training which has being excellent, run well and bring home that PB.

hot buttered scones

adrian522 wrote: »

Very best of luck, I'm sure you'll nail it!

martyboy48 wrote: »

Have a good one M, Hope it goes well for you

jake1970 wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow HBS. Trust in your training which has being excellent, run well and bring home that PB.

Cheer lads. Much appreciated.

hot buttered scones

Saturday 03/06

2.2 miles@8:48. Just an easy leg loosener after breakfast. Felt good until the end when I got a bit of a twinge in the auld post-tib tendon. I gave the calves a good stretch and I'm putting it down to pre-race nerves.

Rolling 7 day miles: 27.5

So that's it then. The end of another marathon training block. I've gotten through this one pretty much unscathed. I'm fed and watered, My gear is laid out for the morning and my bag is packed. By this time tomorrow I reckon I'll have had one or two beers too many for a report regardless of the results.
I'm more excited than nervous for a change, confident but not over-confident. The only thing that stands in the way of a good result now is my head. And possibly Farranlea Road. Or my dodgy right hip. But mostly my head.
I'm going to go out with the 3:15 pacers and just see how it feels. I might push on at halfway, and I might not depending on how the race is going for me.

A goal: Sub 3:15
B goal: Sub 3:20
C goal: PB (Sub 3:21:45)

There are no other options.

Wottle

Best of luck!

hillsiderunner

*exciting*

Good luck!

Mrs Mc

Have a great race tomorrow M

JohnDozer

Best of luck! Some buzz to be waking up tomorrow looking to nail a marathon in your home town I'd say. I don't have any doubt that you won't with plenty of the route covered, and so many good runs and sessions in the bank. You've faced down that same breeze many times out around Blarney. You've all the angles covered... Enjoy the straight road with the breeze at your back!

hot buttered scones

Wottle wrote:

Best of luck!

hillsiderunner wrote:

*exciting*

Good luck!

Mrs Mc wrote:

Have a great race tomorrow M

Cheers lads.

hot buttered scones

JohnDozer wrote:

Best of luck! Some buzz to be waking up tomorrow looking to nail a marathon in your home town I'd say. I don't have any doubt that you won't with plenty of the route covered, and so many good runs and sessions in the bank. You've faced down that same breeze many times out around Blarney. You've all the angles covered... Enjoy the straight road with the breeze at your back!

Looking forward to that home straight already. I should be hitting it in less than 14 hours!!! And with that I'm off to bed. Nothing like a sleep in your own bed the night before a big race.