Still trying to figure it all out.

Kellygirl

How’s it going HBS?

hot buttered scones

Kellygirl wrote: »

How’s it going HBS?

Not too bad. As it turned out I skipped Sunday too - just woke up too late to get a decent run in before work. I think I might have had a bit of a bug last week, which didn't help matters. I got a decent enough 7 miles in tonight before work which cheered me well up. Hows things with yourself?

Kellygirl

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Not too bad. As it turned out I skipped Sunday too - just woke up too late to get a decent run in before work. I think I might have had a bit of a bug last week, which didn't help matters. I got a decent enough 7 miles in tonight before work which cheered me well up. Hows things with yourself?

Glad you are back on track. Had a bug here too at the weekend and not fully over it yet so have missed two runs now on Sunday and last night but hopefully will get out tomorrow morning again.

hot buttered scones

Monday 13/11|6.1@8:45ish|pre night shift
Tuesday 14/11|Rest|
Wednesday 15/11|6.2@8:28|Hilly
Thursday 16/11|5@8:41|
Friday 17/11|Rest|CBA
Saturday 18/11|5:9:13|am, pre work
Sunday 19/11|rest| meh

Total: 22.5 miles. Post marathon malaise.

P+L Multiple Distances plan week 1

Monday 20/11|7 GA@8:17|Feeling better
Tuesday 21/11|8 with3x10mins@LT|see below
Wednesday 22/11|9@8:05|
Thursday 23/11|3.4 recovery(around 9's)|to the shops for booze.
Friday 24/11|7 miles- hills and strides|
Saturday 25/11|11 endurance|Hard work, DOMsy
Sunday 26/11|rest|

Total: 45.9

Tuesday - 3x10@LT, 3 minutes recovery between reps.
This was a tough session, but I felt controlled throughout, and didn't think of packing it in until 8 minutes into the last rep!! I ran this by HR, but the HR was too high and the pace too slow!! I had the watch set to autosplit, so each rep came in in two parts. Did this in the evening before work in the dark - which meant a lot of watching my step.
Rep 1:
1 mile@6:32, HR average 168
0.51 miles@6:45 HR average 174
Rep 2:
1 mile@6:45, HR average 174
0.46 miles@7:01 HR average 178
Rep 3:
1 mile@6:59, HR average 174
0.44 miles@6:53 HR average 178.

Guidlines: HR 150-171. Pace (based on HM time) - 6:16-6:26; (based on Mara time) - 6:35-6:45.
While it was good to be back doing a session, I'm not sure what I got out of this other than enjoyment.

Friday:

4 miles warmup, 6x12s hills with walk back down, then 8x100m strides. The hills felt good - focused on good form and felt like I was flying up a relatively steep hill. Garmin gives me paces between 6:17-5:11 for these - but I doubt that. Recoveries where a slow walk back down in about a minute.
The strides on the flat felt harder - but I think I run these too fast anyway. Blew out a few cobwebs at least.

Saturday:

11 endurance. Longest run since DCM, but it was a tough one. My legs were in bits from the session the night before. The timing wasn't ideal - I did the last nights run at around 6:20pm, and this run at just past 11am. Pace went from around 8:28 down to 8:00 for the last few miles, with the HR going from 133 to 158. Goal HR was 139 up to 157 for the latter part of the run. I had though about extending this to 13.1, but in the end I was just glad to be finished - I found the last two miles tough. And so ends a streak of sorts - I'd run a 13.1 at least once a month since April 2015, and there'll be none this November.

I'm only doing this plan to keep me ticking over, but I'll not push myself too hard just yet, so I'll try to stick to training by HR for a while anyway.

P+L Multiple Distances plan week 2

Monday 27/11

8 GA@8:24. Goal HR 132-151
Average HR per mile: 87, 116, 138, 144, 147, 149, 150, 153
Splits: 8:40; 8:43; 8:24; 8:29; 8:20; 8:20; 8:00; 8:32

HR for the first two miles was nonsense - a dry strap I think. Last mile was up a hill which accounts for the rise in HR - I think I'm allowed +8bpm when climbing. It took me a couple miles to get into it - still stiff from Friday and Saturday, plus it was an ungodly hour - although there were a good few from work out and about this morning.

Swashbuckler

Nice going. Hopefully the plan will give you a renewed interest/motivation. What's the target race with the new plan?

hot buttered scones

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Nice going. Hopefully the plan will give you a renewed interest/motivation. What's the target race with the new plan?

I suppose the Raheny 5 is my goal race for the early part of next year, with a half marathon in April. I'm going to try an get a 5k in before Christmas - it was going to be the Newmarket 5k, but it looks like I might not make that now, so maybe I'll go and do a park run instead.

Swashbuckler

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I suppose the Raheny 5 is my goal race for the early part of next year, with a half marathon in April. I'm going to try an get a 5k in before Christmas - it was going to be the Newmarket 5k, but it looks like I might not make that now, so maybe I'll go and do a park run instead.

You wouldn't be tempted by the Clonakilty 10k on the 9th?

hot buttered scones

Swashbuckler wrote: »

You wouldn't be tempted by the Clonakilty 10k on the 9th?

I wouldn't do myself justice at the moment - I'm struggling to hit half marathon pace at the moment during short LT reps, never mind race a 10k!

Swashbuckler

Ha! Fair enough. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself though. You've come off a hard block of training this year. It's not always possible to kick on after each block. Need to recover mentally as well as physically....and avoid those nasty head colds!

hot buttered scones

Tuesday 28/11

Woke up feeling like crap today - all stuffed up, throat dry and scratchy and my breathing was ragged and chest tight. This could be a virus/head cold or maybe just seasonal allergies brought on by bad air con and central heating - the kind of thing where you don't feel "sick", but your respiratory system is just in bits. I gave it a few hours (which sometimes works) and then attempted a session, when I felt a bit better. I should have probably cut my losses and just gotten a few easy miles in.
The session was 9 miles including 14mins, 11 mins and 8mins @ LT pace with 4 mins recovery between reps.
I was wearing hat, gloves, long sleeve and a compression t shirt and I could still feel the cold wind blowing down the Straight Road,. My breathing was ok on the warm up, but I felt tired and a bit tight - but this is not unusual and a miserable warmup can sometimes result in a very good session. Not today though. I was able to maintain 6:43 average pace for about 6 minutes before stopping. My HR was in and around 172 (where it should be) - but I just felt wrecked, as if the effort was much harder than my HR said it was. My groin and quads were stiff and sore. My form was awful and I kept clipping my ankle. I could feel my breathing getting more ragged. The cold air was hurting my lungs and I could feel my chest muscles tightening a bit. I just wasn't mentally up for it at this point, so I packed it in. I didn't think there was any point in hammering myself to get through this session. A slow jog back to the car gave me 4 miles for the day - and that's all I probably should have done in the first place.
I was disappointed - not because I couldn't do the session, but because it was a lovely crisp, clear day and I couldn't take advantage of my afternoon off and get a nice few miles in!! I'll give it a few days if just easy running or rest depending on whether or not I get any worse before attempting another session. Although I'm not sure if I'm in the humour for these longer LT interval type sessions at the moment.

El Caballo

I think you're making the right call HBS. Might be worth the effort to get the bloods checked, no harm just to see. Somethings definetely not quite right anyway but if all is normal on the bloods, might be an idea to back off it for a while and just run easy for a couple of weeks. The dead legs and uncoordinated form are a dead cert giveaway that you should anyway and something I'd use as a guage of listening to your body.

Kellygirl

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Tuesday 28/11

Woke up feeling like crap today - all stuffed up, throat dry and scratchy and my breathing was ragged and chest tight. This could be a virus/head cold or maybe just seasonal allergies brought on by bad air con and central heating - the kind of thing where you don't feel "sick", but your respiratory system is just in bits. I gave it a few hours (which sometimes works) and then attempted a session, when I felt a bit better. I should have probably cut my losses and just gotten a few easy miles in.
The session was 9 miles including 14mins, 11 mins and 8mins @ LT pace with 4 mins recovery between reps.
I was wearing hat, gloves, long sleeve and a compression t shirt and I could still feel the cold wind blowing down the Straight Road,. My breathing was ok on the warm up, but I felt tired and a bit tight - but this is not unusual and a miserable warmup can sometimes result in a very good session. Not today though. I was able to maintain 6:43 average pace for about 6 minutes before stopping. My HR was in and around 172 (where it should be) - but I just felt wrecked, as if the effort was much harder than my HR said it was. My groin and quads were stiff and sore. My form was awful and I kept clipping my ankle. I could feel my breathing getting more ragged. The cold air was hurting my lungs and I could feel my chest muscles tightening a bit. I just wasn't mentally up for it at this point, so I packed it in. I didn't think there was any point in hammering myself to get through this session. A slow jog back to the car gave me 4 miles for the day - and that's all I probably should have done in the first place.
I was disappointed - not because I couldn't do the session, but because it was a lovely crisp, clear day and I couldn't take advantage of my afternoon off and get a nice few miles in!! I'll give it a few days if just easy running or rest depending on whether or not I get any worse before attempting another session. Although I'm not sure if I'm in the humour for these longer LT interval type sessions at the moment.

Ah that’s so frustrating and I totally know the feeling. My only morning to myself is a Wednesday morn and I always run - I never arrange to meet anyone or do anything but fit my run in. I know the feeling when something like illness stops you and last March / April I tried to push through a run anyway and ended up very sick. My bloods were showing one step off sepsis and I had to take a break. A wiser person than me told me I’d come back stronger if I just gave my body a break and needless to say a couple of weeks later I went out to do an LSR and not a bother. I think you have been pushing your body a bit the last few weeks trying to get back to where you were and your body is telling you otherwise. Maybe get over the illness and it also gives your muscles time to rest and you’ll be flying. I bet if you did nothing at all between now and December 9th you could turn up and fly the Clon 10km!! Get well soon.

denis b

HBS...do look after yourself and probably worth pencilling in some downtime regardless of how you feel. At times it seems as though you are, perhaps, too anxious to get back into sessions. The cold air/air con/central heating combo does not help when you are close to tipping point and I don't recall you ever mentioning co-ordination issues before.

OOnegative

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Tuesday 28/11

Woke up feeling like crap today - all stuffed up, throat dry and scratchy and my breathing was ragged and chest tight. This could be a virus/head cold or maybe just seasonal allergies brought on by bad air con and central heating - the kind of thing where you don't feel "sick", but your respiratory system is just in bits. I gave it a few hours (which sometimes works) and then attempted a session, when I felt a bit better. I should have probably cut my losses and just gotten a few easy miles in.
The session was 9 miles including 14mins, 11 mins and 8mins @ LT pace with 4 mins recovery between reps.
I was wearing hat, gloves, long sleeve and a compression t shirt and I could still feel the cold wind blowing down the Straight Road,. My breathing was ok on the warm up, but I felt tired and a bit tight - but this is not unusual and a miserable warmup can sometimes result in a very good session. Not today though. I was able to maintain 6:43 average pace for about 6 minutes before stopping. My HR was in and around 172 (where it should be) - but I just felt wrecked, as if the effort was much harder than my HR said it was. My groin and quads were stiff and sore. My form was awful and I kept clipping my ankle. I could feel my breathing getting more ragged. The cold air was hurting my lungs and I could feel my chest muscles tightening a bit. I just wasn't mentally up for it at this point, so I packed it in. I didn't think there was any point in hammering myself to get through this session. A slow jog back to the car gave me 4 miles for the day - and that's all I probably should have done in the first place.
I was disappointed - not because I couldn't do the session, but because it was a lovely crisp, clear day and I couldn't take advantage of my afternoon off and get a nice few miles in!! I'll give it a few days if just easy running or rest depending on whether or not I get any worse before attempting another session. Although I'm not sure if I'm in the humour for these longer LT interval type sessions at the moment.

If your not sure then you are NOT in the humour for longer LT sessions, you are after coming off a great marathon cycle recover a small bit more and let the appetite return, keep it easy for a while.

hot buttered scones

Thanks all. After a hellish night shift last night I've woken up today with a dose of manflu you'd want to call the CDC in for. I'm definitely run down. I've been getting recurring mouth ulcers, appetite has been off and all the usual signs. I probably overdid it last week to be fair. So a few days off I think, then just easy runs for a while. I'll be going to the doctor and asking for bloods as well - but what am I asking him to check?
Whereas taking some unenforced down time usually has me climbing the walls, this time I'm relieved to be honest. I need a mental break too. You know something's up when your having to talk yourself into doing easy runs. Not to worry. I've until next October to get meself in shape.

ariana`

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Thanks all. After a hellish night shift last night I've woken up today with a dose of manflu you'd want to call the CDC in for. I'm definitely run down. I've been getting recurring mouth ulcers, appetite has been off and all the usual signs. I probably overdid it last week to be fair. So a few days off I think, then just easy runs for a while. I'll be going to the doctor and asking for bloods as well - but what am I asking him to check?
Whereas taking some unenforced down time usually has me climbing the walls, this time I'm relieved to be honest. I need a mental break too. You know something's up when your having to talk yourself into doing easy runs. Not to worry. I've until next October to get meself in shape.

Don't worry he will automatically do all the standard tests, he will have had a chat with you anyhow and know how you've been feeling run down etc.

But while you are getting them done at all you may want to consider getting your cholesterol checked in which case you need to fast for 12-14 hours beforehand - just something to consider while you're paying to get bloods done! It wouldn't impact how you've been feeling but it's something to stay on top of for your long term health.

Hope you are back to yourself soon

hot buttered scones

Wednesday 29/11 - Sat 02/12

Sick, fever, antibiotics etc. etc. Didn't get bloods as I couldn't get an appointment with my own doctor and had to rely on an out of hours service. On the other hand I slept loads.

Sunday 03/12

Feeling way better - I needed to be out the Southside in the afternoon, so I headed out the Lough for a handy few laps. 5.1 miles@ 8:46. Nice to be out again.

Monday 04/12; Tuesday 05/12

Working both these days. I'd decided to do nothing Monday anyway, but nothing was getting me up early Tuesday either so two more days of no running. It's been a long time since I only had 1 day of running in a 7 day period.

Wednesday 06/12

Out with P+L and in with McMillan. I'll mess about with the 10k plan from Strava for a few weeks. Seems a bit more manageable than the P+L plan I was doing. I just want to keep things ticking over until the New year before I start a half marathon plan.

Plan: Fartlek. 10-12x 1 minute@5k-10k effort, 1 minute recovery jog.
Pace range for these was 6:12-6:26. Overdid every rep, and walked the first 20s or so of the recoveries from around the 4th or 5th rep on. Did these on a rainy, windy night in the ferry port. First few felt ok, but it got progressively harder as the session progressed.
Paces for each rep:
6:00; 6:07; 5:49; 5:42; 5:41; 5:59; 5:56; 6:01; 6:08; 6:06; 5:49; 5:56.

Some of the reps were more into the wind than others (likewise I had the wind at my back for a good bit of some too). I like these short, snappy sessions - feels good to get the legs turning over.

I noticed afterwards that my HR never really recovered between reps - maybe that's the way it's supposed to be, but I still reckon some of its due to loss of fitness.

Anyway - finally feeling more like myself again and this session didn't kill me (although it was hard), but it is still a case of tread carefully, so I'll just do "what I feel like" for the next couple of days.

Swashbuckler

Well done. Nothing like a good session to get back into it. Not easy to settle into a target pace in such a short period is it... Anything less than a minute or two and I find I need to monitor the watch closely

hot buttered scones

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Well done. Nothing like a good session to get back into it. Not easy to settle into a target pace in such a short period is it... Anything less than a minute or two and I find I need to monitor the watch closely

I tried looking at the watch, but it was a bit dark where I was running and I was more concerned with looking where I was putting my feet. I'm not too concerned about the pace though - I was great to just blow out the cobwebs. Felt like I got a nice bit of work done, even if it was only 12 minutes hard running.

adrian522

I don't think you need to look at the watch at all on a session like this, as long as it beeps every minute. It's a min hard and a minute easy. Forget about the pace and just run hard and recover for your minute easy then go again. You can check the splits afterwards.

Swashbuckler

adrian522 wrote:

I don't think you need to look at the watch at all on a session like this, as long as it beeps every minute. It's a min hard and a minute easy. Forget about the pace and just run hard and recover for your minute easy then go again. You can check the splits afterwards.

I dunno if I'd agree. I was over cooking some of these sessions before Testosterscone started giving me some coaching. Much more controlled now and I've felt the difference.

adrian522

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I dunno if I'd agree. I was over cooking some of these sessions before Testosterscone started giving me some coaching. Much more controlled now and I've felt the difference.

You need to learn to run by feel if you have to constantly check the watch to know if you are running hard you are doing something wrong.

The pace will always vary due to conditions/fatigue/terrain etc. I don't think being a slave to the watch is a good thing and certainly not on reps of 1 min or less.

Itziger

Agree wholeheartedly with Adrian here. Hard = hard and easy = easy. You should be able to learn it, even if it's the hard way! Eventually the body will get it right.

Swashbuckler

Isn't part of the learning actually using the watch as a reference though. By using the watch as a reference I've learned what hard is for me and what really hard is. All well and good running by feel but for me the watch has helped me learn. I think some people are better at zoning in than others.

Just to add I wouldn't need to check the watch to see if I'm running hard but I would be checking to make sure I'm not bordering on too hard if that makes sense?

hot buttered scones

I always find it hard difficult to judge the effort when I have a bit of a lay off or I'm in recovery mode. I get quite good at judging the effort based on feel when I'm deep into a plan - but at the moment not so much. For short (i.e 1 minute) intervals, you're half way through before the watch catches up anyway. For a sessions like the one I did, if you can't jog the recoveries after the 3rd or 4th rep (like I did) then you've run the first few too hard. On the other hand, it just feels good to go out push yourself every now and then.

@ Swashbuckler - I rely on my watch as well, and have never really gotten the hang of running shorter reps at the right pace, but for longer efforts eventually you do tune into your body and how the effort feels - to the extent where I could tell you what range my HR was in without checking it and I'd be right the majority of the time.

Which I suppose leads the conclusion that the best way of measuring effort is HR not pace (but only if your HR zones are accurate). The echo what adrian522 said - there are too many factors which can effect pace - wind, hills, heat, tiredness etc. etc.

Swashbuckler

If I'm told go out and run hard then no bother I can do that. If I'm told go out and run 3min intervals at 6min mile pace I'm needing the watch for the first few that's for sure. After a couple I'd be closer to locked in.

hot buttered scones

Thursday 7/12

6.3@8:36 before work. From sweating buckets yesterday to freezing cold today. I enjoyed this one.

Friday 8/12

Feels like I lost a day here. I didn't wake up after my last night shift until 3 pm ( I usually like to get up around 1ish).
5@8:34

Down the hill into town, collect some small Parcel motel stuff and up through Blackpool and the long drag to Ballyvolane and home. Kill tow birds with one stone.

Saturday 9/12

Nothing yet. Had planned a 6x1 mile@10k pace, but then a change of plans in the morning scuppered that. I'll probably just do an easy 5 later.

hot buttered scones

I'm struggling a bit with motivation and training at the moment. I can't figure out if this is due to some purely physical reason or is it just some sort of mental block (for want of better words). So this is a bit of a wordy, possibly self indulgent post - but I like sticking things like this in my log. Writing it down helps me figure it out.

The Physical

1. I'm not carrying any injuries and niggles are at a minimum, barely noticeable a lot of the time. Could do with a sports massage though.
2. I've been sick in the last few weeks, and was probably carrying the bug for a lot longer than I thought and put any ill effects down to post marathon recovery.
3. I've worked a bit more than usual, so I've been blaming that and the bug for being a bit more fatigued than normal.
4. I've had difficulty with breathing and congestion issues - which are more annoying than anything else, but it can make things difficult. But its something I'm used too, so I can't really blame that.
5. I feel like I've lost some speed/fitness over the last few weeks, so maybe I'm not guaging my paces correct.
6. Sleep could be better and so could the diet, but that's always the case. And I've been getting a bit more sleep over the last week or so anyway.
7. Recovery from a harder run seems to be taking bit longer than it was 8 or so weeks ago.

I never got the blood test done as was suggested and probably won't get a chance this side of Christmas either.


The Mental/Pyschological

1. The very fact that I'm compiling two list as to why I'm bit tired and have have "lost my mojo" probably means I'm seriously overthinking all of this.
2. If I have a short snappy session to do (200m repeats, short hills, strides, 1 minute repeats etc.) I'm either looking forward to them or I can at least push myself to do them.
3. For the longer stuff (long LT repeats, mile repeats etc.) - what I would consider "hard" session - I just keep putting them off, pushing them forward a day or two and then either not doing them or going too hard. So in short I'm not looking forward to these type of sessions. But normally I can self motivate and get myself out the door, at the moment the drive is lacking.
4. It's winter. The nights are long. My choice of routes is restricted. The weather is sh1te and the house is warm and comfortable - am I just getting lazy? I find it much harder to get up 5am in December than I do in June (but don't we all? ). It seems more difficult to strike the right balance between home life, training and work at this time of year too - so training suffers.
5. I'm seriously lacking in time at the moment. I just can't (or won't?) find the time for the aforementioned "hard" sessions, and if I think the session is going to run for around 90 minutes it's really putting me off. I can probably do a hour on the busy days and squeeze a long run in on one of my days off. Running should be a stress reliever not a stressor.
6. I'm a bit sick of pushing myself tbh. Whatever about physical fatigue, I do feel a bit mentally drained (external factors here too though). A lot of that comes from timetabling issues as such.
7. In saying all of the above, when I do get my arse in gear and get a session done properly, I feel great.
8. It probably doesn't help that I'm focussed on next October more than anything else. I find it hard together up the same levels of motivation without an imminent goal.



So what to do? I don't want an extended break - I'd miss running too much. I need to be a bit smarter with my training
Scheduled races:
1. Raheny 5
2. Berlin half or The Great Railway 25k in early April.
3. Franfurt Marathon - sub 3 attempt. I have no doubt I'm capable if I train properly.

I've canned the mile repeats planned for today, so I'll probably just go out for a trot before dinner and then get around 90 to 120 minutes in tomorrow morning.
I've reached out for a bit of help and advice, so hopefully I'll be put on the right road.

OOnegative

I've ran two marathons in my life and everything you have written down i have experienced after each one, i simply put it down to post marathon blues. You train extremely hard for something, put 3-4 months work into it and its all over in the blink of an eye. Depending on the result the feeling of extreme satisfaction lasts for maybe a week and then there is nothing after this to focus the mind and you feel lazy and as you say meh!!!

My mojo returned after a few months on each occasion and the enthusiasm returned ten fold on wanting to progress and move onto the next step, but i know in my being lazy those few months has put me behind other runners i felt on par with. I think you are overthinking it a small bit but are right in addressing it in some way to see if you can tease reasons out for what you have outlined. Plus it is silly season and we all can get lethargic at this time of year. Am sure others will have there opinion to, but that is my two cents worth.

clickerquicklic

Reading logs here it seems lots of people get very down on themselves about running. Sometimes I wonder why people are even running at all!

You’ve ran amazing races HBS. I think all these cycles of constant targets must take a toll on the body and mind. I love running I love putting my earphones on and going for a run , I love the feeling I get after running , if I don’t want to run I don’t run. I dont feel guilty or care if I miss sessions it’s a hobby I’m not a professional , don’t be too hard on yourself.

I get it though I used to cycle loads and would beat myself up if I wasn’t improving on certain segments , my wife correctly pointed out to me once that I was stressing about cycling training too much . She was right I listened and I stopped , felt weird at first. It’s great to have targets but remember to enjoy the journey and keep a good balance if your hobby is like a job then your going to need a new hobby to relax.

Out of all sports , runners seem to be the hardest on themselves and will push themselves to an unhealthy point to achieve a goal which they don’t enjoy for long enough and try better again.

Relax enjoy the xmas binge eat and drink and don’t think about running be my advice. Cycle a bit it’s fun ! I’m getting a mountain bike for myself in sales cause it’s great craic in ticknock , enjoy your health and fitness and congrats on your great year of running!