Difficulty securing accommodation with HAP

Evertontoffees

The landlord has decided to sell up after 25 years we are hap elegible the question is

landlords won't accept this I have attended numourous viewings gave references bank statements

the landlord gets a 40% tax incentives and if property is mortgaged they get a relief

The payment is electronic to landlord from council

And we pay the council we where over paying out bidding people and still zero

We are not one for partying we are a small family we would respect and treat a property as our own

handlemaster

Unfortunately every landlord has had a tenant from hell on social welfare. I think its the nature of the welfare tenant.... not saying every social welfare tenant is like that but LLs in this market dont need to take that risk

Evertontoffees

Myself and partner are currently looking to rent we are hap eligible can be sorted in the matter of days landlords stating they will take it try an sell the house to you then want references I send them by email previous job and bank and id
I am currently unemployed seeking full time employment the misses it part time I have work references any tips I think we are getting led on and then hope smashed thanks

Eric Cartman

An awful lot of landlords have been burned by welfare rental schemes and are very reluctant to take it. Almost any landlord Ive ever worked for will do anything they can to avoid welfare tenants due to horror stories.

Unfortunately its a case of keeping going until you find somebody who will accept it.

Might I suggest looking at houses that will take students , a landlord who isn't that concerned about upkeep or furniture damage would be more likely to take you (not that you or any other HAP tenant will damage furniture, but in the rental market welfare tenants and students tend to fall into those high risk categories)

athtrasna

Threads merged - please don't start multiple threads on the same issue OP

Mod

Evertontoffees

Eric Cartman wrote: »

An awful lot of landlords have been burned by welfare rental schemes and are very reluctant to take it. Almost any landlord Ive ever worked for will do anything they can to avoid welfare tenants due to horror stories.

Unfortunately its a case of keeping going until you find somebody who will accept it.

Might I suggest looking at houses that will take students , a landlord who isn't that concerned about upkeep or furniture damage would be more likely to take you (not that you or any other HAP tenant will damage furniture, but in the rental market welfare tenants and students tend to fall into those high risk categories)

Thanks for your input

So there is there a us we are a young family I am no bum by no means we are viewing places and sometimes being the child and would be saying great we want a family this and that ok we tick all the boxes then never hear back yes hap is completely different to rent allowance we are no scumbags or nothing we have respect for every individual and belongings/possession I'm a bit of a handyman myself aswel it's a crazy market at the minute in south Dublin there is not 1 apartment for under €1300

ED E

Busiest market in the country? Check
Strong black mark on application? Check

You'll spend a long long time looking. The harsh reality may be that you either need to move away from Dublin or find employment. Landlords hate RA under any name. Wrongly or rightly that's not gonna change anytime soon.

Eric Cartman

Evertontoffees wrote: »

Thanks for your input

So there is there a us we are a young family I am no bum by no means we are viewing places and sometimes being the child and would be saying great we want a family this and that ok we tick all the boxes then never hear back yes hap is completely different to rent allowance we are no scumbags or nothing we have respect for every individual and belongings/possession I'm a bit of a handyman myself aswel it's a crazy market at the minute in south Dublin there is not 1 apartment for under €1300

And thats fair enough, you sound like a reasonable applicant, i think trying to get something inside the M50 will be a dream too far though , id consider trying tallaght / swords / ashbourne / rush / lucan / maynooth / kilcock / greystones, you may have more luck there

Lux23

Landlords can't legally refuse to rent to if you're on rental allowance so perhaps it is the same with HAP. The following is from Citizens advice. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html

Discrimination when letting residential property
The Equal Status Acts 2000–2015 apply to lettings and accommodation. Landlords cannot discriminate against potential tenants on grounds of gender, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.

Since 1 January 2016, you cannot be discriminated against when renting because you are getting Rent Supplement or any other social welfare payment, or a Housing Assistance Payment. This means that landlords can no longer state when advertising accommodation that HAP (or Rent Supplement) is not accepted and they cannot refuse to rent you accommodation because you are getting a social welfare payment. If you feel you have been discriminated against by a landlord or their agent, you can find out more about making a complaint under the Equal Status Acts. Read more on the website of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission.

ED E

That legislation is useless. All it does is remove the wording from Daft.

Mrs OBumble

Lux23 wrote: »

If you feel you have been discriminated against by a landlord or their agent, you can find out more about making a complaint under the Equal Status Acts. Read more on the website of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission.

What you have posted is correct.

But it is no help to the OP.

The fact is that to get accommodation which will accept HAP and be within an acceptable price range for it, s/he will likely have to move to a location where there is less less demand. In high demand locations. landlords will simply charge enough more than the HAP threshold that the council will not consider a rental-limit exemption for them.

This particularly hurts if the OP is actually working but low paid, rather than being on welfare: it's absolutely classic that a housing scheme designed to help low-paid workers actually hurts them.

Lux23

ED E wrote: »

That legislation is useless. All it does is remove the wording from Daft.

I would still make a complaint about any landlords who refuse on his basis, it is not up to me (or indeed the OP) to decide if the refusal is a breach of legislation. (Granted if there is nowhere cheap enough that covers HAP than fair enough, but otherwise it seems like a flat refusal based on the tenant paying rent under this scheme.

Fian

Lux23 wrote: »

I would still make a complaint about any landlords who refuse on his basis, it is not up to me (or indeed the OP) to decide if the refusal is a breach of legislation. (Granted if there is nowhere cheap enough that covers HAP than fair enough, but otherwise it seems like a flat refusal based on the tenant paying rent under this scheme.

This is why the landlord will not say he is refusing on this basis. They will give another reason.

Irishcrx

It's a very busy market and unfortunately landlords have their pick when it comes to tenants at the minute. Yes there are great tenants on the RA scheme but stigma is still carrying with it.

The fact is that if a landlord has 10 applications , all equal with good referances, 2 of them are applying on rent allowances and 8 also have good employment referances , you are now back of the pack. They are going to more than likely choose the 8 people who are employed full time.

Again , maybe it's a thing with RA , maybe they've been burned before by it , maybe they have a stigma about having any sort of government involvement with their property or don't trust them for making payments and forsee hassle from them rather than you..even though that may not be the case they may think that way.

The legislation is useless, any landlord can just say they picked a tenant based on personal preferance or any other reason ,at the end of the day they own the property and have the right to pick the tenant they want.

But keep your head up and keep looking , you'll find something. Market is just insane right now.

Lux23

Fian wrote: »

This is why the landlord will not say he is refusing on this basis. They will give another reason.

But under the legislation, you have to prove that this isn't reason. Simply saying it wouldn't be enough.

Irishcrx

Lux23 wrote: »

Fian wrote: »

This is why the landlord will not say he is refusing on this basis. They will give another reason.

But under the legislation, you have to prove that this isn't reason. Simply saying it wouldn't be enough.

And how are they going to prove that it was the reason?

You simply point to somebody referance and say...

* You prefered them because of the trade they are in.
* You prefered them because they are single/didn't have children/pets
* You prefered them because they have lived locally before
* You before because you got on better with them

Or any number of X reasons , the fact is the government cannot prove that you excluded somebody on the basis of rent allowance unless they were your only application and were refused , which in this market is just extremely unlikely.

I know it seems harsh , but on top of rent their is bills to be paid as well and landlords prefer people in employment for their ability to even pay the bills on time as opposed to people not working.

Also , if they got a job and their RA was stopped they have no history of being able to pay rent off their own backs with a wage when the government isn't do this for them and this is also a risk for the landlord.

Add it all up and they just don't see it as worth it , the government needs to accept that this is a private market and landlords are entitled to make their decisions financially as it is their property.

Government need to provide social housing for those struggling and stop masking it with useless legislation that is no help to anybody.

Evertontoffees

Lux23 wrote: »

Landlords can't legally refuse to rent to if you're on rental allowance so perhaps it is the same with HAP. The following is from Citizens advice.

Discrimination when letting residential property
The Equal Status Acts 2000–2015 apply to lettings and accommodation. Landlords cannot discriminate against potential tenants on grounds of gender, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.

Since 1 January 2016, you cannot be discriminated against when renting because you are getting Rent Supplement or any other social welfare payment, or a Housing Assistance Payment. This means that landlords can no longer state when advertising accommodation that HAP (or Rent Supplement) is not accepted and they cannot refuse to rent you accommodation because you are getting a social welfare payment. If you feel you have been discriminated against by a landlord or their agent, you can find out more about making a complaint under the Equal Status Acts. Read more on the website of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission.

Thanks I have enquired about this bit of legistation and been told if you get rejected from a viewing or told they do not accept hap or ra you can make a complaint in which it takes twelve months to be heard pointless really

Evertontoffees

Fian wrote: »

This is why the landlord will not say he is refusing on this basis. They will give another reason.

I have actually received a email of an estate agent in which they didn't seem very well schooled that said we do not accept hap due to bad experience with it in the past in which its only on a tryl run in dun l


Excuses used

No children discrimination?
Professional only ðŸ”
Stairs to narrow for children
Will get back to you - never hear again
We got a more suitable tenant with references in which we had plenty of very good reputable ones from employers /previous

I could keep going it's crazy

I viewed s place today and they want €1475

The place mustn't a been touched for 30 years we checked it out I asked the landlord will the place be painted he said no if you want it painted it will cost €1650 monthly haha

It was in bits filthy mouldy and damp electric live wires on show as someone tried extending plugs to a cross the room!!
I said look I won't waist your time thank you for showing me your property

Lux23

Irishcrx wrote: »

And how are they going to prove that it was the reason?

You simply point to somebody referance and say...

* You prefered them because of the trade they are in.
* You prefered them because they are single/didn't have children/pets
* You prefered them because they have lived locally before
* You before because you got on better with them

Or any number of X reasons , the fact is the government cannot prove that you excluded somebody on the basis of rent allowance unless they were your only application and were refused , which in this market is just extremely unlikely.

I know it seems harsh , but on top of rent their is bills to be paid as well and landlords prefer people in employment for their ability to even pay the bills on time as opposed to people not working.

Also , if they got a job and their RA was stopped they have no history of being able to pay rent off their own backs with a wage when the government isn't do this for them and this is also a risk for the landlord.

Add it all up and they just don't see it as worth it , the government needs to accept that this is a private market and landlords are entitled to make their decisions financially as it is their property.

Government need to provide social housing for those struggling and stop masking it with useless legislation that is no help to anybody.

I think you may need to read up a little bit more about how an equality tribunal works. For one, you couldn't say I wouldn't rent to them because they weren't local or single. The onus on proof is also on the defendant so if you have a history of turning away HAP/RA tenants then you could get into trouble.

The OP said he has an email from an estate agent saying they don't accept HAP tenants, that is slam dunk even if the hearing will take 12 months.

Lux23

Evertontoffees wrote: »

I have actually received a email of an estate agent in which they didn't seem very well schooled that said we do not accept hap due to bad experience with it in the past in which its only on a tryl run in dun l

Report them even if the hearing will take 12 months, if landlords are allowed continue discriminating against social tenants then they will.

Evertontoffees

Lux23 wrote: »

Report them even if the hearing will take 12 months, if landlords are allowed continue discriminating against social tenants then they will.

Will try find the email an post it up with certain blocked out for legal reasons

tomo92

Just thought I might add my experience to this thread, myself and partner and 2 year old son have been looking for somewhere in Dublin the last 2 1/2 months not long I know, we are living down in gorey I moved down here to do a apprenticeship but the man I worked with got terribly sick and had to retire, we are also moving because our son has a health condition and we need to be closer to crumlin hospital, so I've been applying for apprenticeships in Dublin but when they hear I live a hour away there voice goes from being optimistic to giving me a trial to flat lining, and on a apprenticeship wage it would be rough to get up and down petrol wise and still be able to survive, so needless to say we have to move to were the work is, we have been accepted back to the Dublin council list and we need to go on this HAP scheme so we can work and stop scraping by week by week, so anyway I rang a place on DAFT advertised directly by a LL so I thought great it's only up a couple of minutes I might have a good chance, (as I rang up a couple in the last 2 months and the landlord said there has been quite a few callers already and if they fall through he would ring me), anyway I rang the LL and told him our situation, how many people it was for and that we have very good references the current property were in the agent comes out every 3 months and inspects the property and never a problem, I told this to the landlord and he says to me " no no no I want people who are working okay bye" that is exactly what he said to me, I honestly don't see how LL can hit everyone with the same brush just because we are currently out of employment at the minute, not everyone on this scheme are going to screw them over, I honestly think it's a disgrace as I've rang up agents and they said they'll accept the HAP scheme and then we go and view the place even though it's over budget and there's about 15 other possible tenants there and you just know that you have no chance as there paying cash, but this way of thinking I don't understand LL will accept people with jobs? What happens if they lose there jobs like I did I never seen it coming what happens then we're as on a HAP scheme there guaranteed there rent on a monthly basis. Sorry for such a long post

the_syco

tomo92 wrote: »

I honestly think it's a disgrace as I've rang up agents and they said they'll accept the HAP scheme and then we go and view the place even though it's over budget and there's about 15 other possible tenants there and you just know that you have no chance as there paying cash

And this is how the new laws screws over those with HAP/RA/etc. Whereas before, they'd say no, they now can't say no, so they say yes, and end up wasting your time, because by law they cannot say no.

tomo92

the_syco wrote: »

And this is how the new laws screws over those with HAP/RA/etc. Whereas before, they'd say no, they now can't say no, so they say yes, and end up wasting your time, because by law they cannot say no.

I think some sort of system has to be put down for the people who are causing so much trouble for LL ( anti social behaviour, damaging property, unpaid rent) put them on some sort of a list, rather than hitting everyone with the brush, not everyone wants to start trouble or not pay there bills, some people are hard working honest people that just need a chance to prove that.

ED E

Try Galway or Cork tomo, Dublin is just too short on rentals.

4ensic15

Evertontoffees wrote: »

I have actually received a email of an estate agent in which they didn't seem very well schooled that said we do not accept hap due to bad experience with it in the past in which its only on a tryl run in dun l


Excuses used

No children discrimination?
Professional only ðŸ”
Stairs to narrow for children
Will get back to you - never hear again
We got a more suitable tenant with references in which we had plenty of very good reputable ones from employers /previous

I could keep going it's crazy

I viewed s place today and they want €1475

The place mustn't a been touched for 30 years we checked it out I asked the landlord will the place be painted he said no if you want it painted it will cost €1650 monthly haha

It was in bits filthy mouldy and damp electric live wires on show as someone tried extending plugs to a cross the room!!
I said look I won't waist your time thank you for showing me your property

Why didn't you take it and then complain to the RTB?

ED E

4ensic15 wrote: »

Why didn't you take it and then complain to the RTB?

You rent it.
Complain to PRTB.
It gets inspected.
You get evicted as to such time as the landlord deems to bring it up to spec.

Great plan that.

4ensic15

ED E wrote: »

You rent it.
Complain to PRTB.
It gets inspected.
You get evicted as to such time as the landlord deems to bring it up to spec.

Great plan that.

A tenant can't be evicted for complaining about standards.

ED E

Yes but if the landlord needs to perform works he can temporarily evict them for an indefinite period in order to perform those works.

4ensic15

ED E wrote: »

Yes but if the landlord needs to perform works he can temporarily evict them for an indefinite period in order to perform those works.

He can't evict without issuing a termination notice which he can't do during a fixed term.

zef

4ensic15 wrote: »

Why didn't you take it and then complain to the RTB?

The OP has children and seems sensible enough to not endanger their lives to prove a point.
Or hand over 3k I am assuming to some obvious cowboy?
If I was the OP I'd keep my money for a house I could actually live in, not one that would create a world of trouble for myself and my family.