Hillsborough Inquest Verdict

theoneeyedman

One of the biggest scandals in the modern history of British 'justice', and that's saying something in the wake of Birmingham, Guildford et al. These people were sh1t on by the establishment, the police, media, right up to the Government and the PM herself. Even after the day (which was a tragedy for all concerned, and I'm sure individual policemen didn't set out to let anyone die when they left for work that morning) the lies, cover ups, and protection of the establishment by all concerned tore the heart out of a whole community that to many was little more than vermin.
I only hope today's verdict gives some solice to the families of the 96, and the others injured on the day.

citytillidie

After this morning this song is now very true for the rest of the public

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIa3u7NfPkM

citytillidie

Gaillimh1976 wrote: »

Will the S#n print the TRUTH on tomorrow's front page ??

No only them that editor at the time who was still sprouting that crap years later I hope the BBC know now never to bring him in for Question Time anymore

UnitedIrishman

Delighted for the families that they finally got justice. Saddened by the fact it took so long.

I remember watching a documentary on the disaster - think it was an ESPN 30 for 30 - and seeing the footage at that end of the ground, and it was genuinely shocking and disturbing. For the families to have to fight and wait for 27 years is beyond belief. Hopefully a black cloud has been lifted off them and further justice comes swiftly.

Ben Gadot

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Just as there will always be people making aeroplane gestures re Man Utd/Munich there will always be people who blame LFC supporters for Hillsborough.

Only now they'll be arguing against undisputable facts established in court.

Can't imagine what it's been like for the families over the last 27 years, having to listen to any old gob****e with an opinion on the subject, all the while being unable to properly grieve.

It must be an absolute joyous feeling today, tinged with a bittersweet lingering for those who have lost further loved ones over the years.

I wish every happiness for these people as they absolutely deserve it.

Leroy42

I was only a kid at the time but even I remember being of the view that the supporters were to blame, based of course on the narrative given out by the police through the media.

It is shocking that such a lie was allowed to be spread at all. That it was allowed to remain when it was clearly false, that it has taken 26 years for the truth to come out.

It shows that once a narrative takes hold it is very difficult to change it, and as one of the family members said today they had to not only fight the police and the state but against the wider populace who believed the lies told by the police.

It really is a shocking story. Reading some of the accounts one cannot help but tear up. The pain and loss of the event and then the least one should expect is that the state would be there to help you, not to denigrate you.

Cantstandsya

Cantstandsya wrote: »

I don't want to turn this into something it's not but I couldn't help but think of Bloody Sunday and the way the victims were tarred when reading about this today.

The video on the Guardian is well worth a watch:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-inquest-jury-returns-verdict-live-updates

It's similar in one respect. At the time people rolled their eyes, "as if there'd be a cover-up" then over the years the same people gradually change it to "of course there was a cover-up, everyone knew that".

Glad for the families, hopefully it's enough for most of them. It would be great if it would also bring about a sea change in how the police operate around football but that's probably too much to ask for despite the lies on that horrible day being the trigger for giving them complete freedom.

Cantona's Collars

Harry Palmr wrote: »

A very long but worthwhile read by David Conn which puts the time line of events within the context of the inquiry

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

Was going to post this.Even if you aren't a Liverpool fan it's a gripping read.
The same thing nearly happened at that end of the ground twice before.In '81 there were 38 people injured in a crush and in '88 there was a crush involving coincidentally Liverpool fans.
You would have thought lessons would have been learned from those instances but tragically not.

Ted_YNWA

Delighted that this has finally been proven. Families can now finally have some closure, having to endure the mud that was slung by The S*n & various other media outlets.

YNWA

Korat

Credit to LFC and their fans for fighting to get the truth told. Hopefully this verdict gives the families some peace and ensures it doesn't happen again.

K-9

Leroy42 wrote: »

I was only a kid at the time but even I remember being of the view that the supporters were to blame, based of course on the narrative given out by the police through the media.

It is shocking that such a lie was allowed to be spread at all. That it was allowed to remain when it was clearly false, that it has taken 26 years for the truth to come out.

It shows that once a narrative takes hold it is very difficult to change it, and as one of the family members said today they had to not only fight the police and the state but against the wider populace who believed the lies told by the police.

It really is a shocking story. Reading some of the accounts one cannot help but tear up. The pain and loss of the event and then the least one should expect is that the state would be there to help you, not to denigrate you.

I remember the police chief giving the press interview in the evening, they were on the PR attack straight away. In fairness, it was easy for the public to believe deaths and football matches meant violence.

Don't want to go over what the press (The Sun weren't the only ones) and police did but a couple of things:

People pick pocketing the dead according to the Sun, this came from the police.
The police alcohol tested kids as young as 11 or 12.

So, today we finally know for real who the real scum were.

Discodog

As a lifelong Manchester United supporter I am so glad that finally the fans of Liverpool are totally vindicated.

Hillsborough could have been any team. Everyone should support justice. Any, so called, supporter that engages in using Hillsborough or Munich as insults should be banned for life.

Sappy404

It's worth remembering Stephen Whittle today, too. He was a Liverpool fan who reluctantly sold his ticket to that match to a friend who then died in the crush. He took his own life in 2011 leaving £61,000 to the Hillsborough families.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-97th-hillsborough-victim-fan-sold-ticket-to-friend-who-died-in-disaster-8142470.html

mansize

It really was the establishment and the middle classes blaming the working classes as they knew they would be believed.


Today is a victory for truth and equality

mansize

Brendan Filone wrote: »

I think that justice is a very broad term for today.

Yes, the injustice of them being blamed for their own deaths has been disproved.

But justice would require that someone is held accountable for the lies, the smearing, the bullying of survivors families and all the rest.

Justice will be when South Yorkshire Police are in the dock.

I can't see anyone being held criminally responsible for this - you would need huge evidence and their lawyers will do their upmost to make an charge difficult to stick

Discodog

mansize wrote: »

I can't see anyone being held criminally responsible for this - you would need huge evidence and their lawyers will do their upmost to make an charge difficult to stick

The Police backed, by the authorities, have deliberately delayed the proceedings. They even contested this inquest & the verdict could of been made long ago if the Police had the decency to admit their guilt.

But it runs much deeper than just Police Officers & by delaying, those that should face justice won't. The Police apology is worthless when you consider how they acted to try & stop these proceedings & how they blatantly lied to cover up the truth in the past.

Jimmy McGovern & ITV deserve praise. Because of Cracker McGovern was known to be a great writer. ITV agreed to screen Hillsborough & it opened up the case to a huge new audience.

Laois_Man

Its bull****. British justice is a joke. Blame the Police, the ambulance service, Sheffield Wednesday FC and even the builders of the stadium. But dont even ask them a question number 15 about the FA who put that match into that ground where the exact same disaster had almost occurred in no less than three previous FA Cup semi finals. One exactly a year earlier also involving Liverpool supporters versus Forest.

And where's question 16 about Thatchers Government? Also missing from these fabulous 14 questions.

I have no respect for anything out of British courts

Harry Palmr

Helpful, in no way at all. If the families of the 96 took that approach they'd still be wondering and waiting

martingriff

K-9 wrote: »

I remember the police chief giving the press interview in the evening, they were on the PR attack straight away. In fairness, it was easy for the public to believe deaths and football matches meant violence.

Don't want to go over what the press (The Sun weren't the only ones) and police did but a couple of things:

People pick pocketing the dead according to the Sun, this came from the police.
The police alcohol tested kids as young as 11 or 12.

So, today we finally know for real who the real scum were.

Also do not forget that Hysel was only a few years befor it where some Liverpool fans were to blame so it was easy for them to make a correlation also in that way

mansize

martingriff wrote: »

Also do not forget that Hysel was only a few years befor it where some Liverpool fans were to blame so it was easy for them to make a correlation also in that way

Guilt by association is an easy smear and tabloids are famous for it

Korat

mansize wrote: »

It really was the establishment and the middle classes blaming the working classes as they knew they would be believed.


Today is a victory for truth and equality

That’s a politically loaded statement and shame on you for playing politics with a tragedy.

Fans can set aside tribalism out of respect and common decency, politics should have no place either.

In my view Britain had a serious problem with acknowledging institutional wrongdoing at the time and had a culture of covering up scandals regardless of the race, creed or class of it's victims.

I think it's wrong to turn Hillsborough into a political axe for your own agenda whatever that might be.

corwill

Korat wrote: »

That’s a politically loaded statement and shame on you for playing politics with a tragedy.

Fans can set aside tribalism out of respect and common decency, politics should have no place either.

In my view Britain had a serious problem with acknowledging institutional wrongdoing at the time and had a culture of covering up scandals regardless of the race, creed or class of it's victims.

I think it's wrong to turn Hillsborough into a political axe for your own agenda whatever that might be.

Leave politics out of an enormous establishment cover-up of mass unlawful killings, in which a number of institutions, some of the state, have been implicated and even found culpable of?

You might as well suggest leaving oxygen out of breathing, or food out of eating. Mind-boggling naïveté.

mansize

Korat wrote: »

That’s a politically loaded statement and shame on you for playing politics with a tragedy.

Fans can set aside tribalism out of respect and common decency, politics should have no place either.

In my view Britain had a serious problem with acknowledging institutional wrongdoing at the time and had a culture of covering up scandals regardless of the race, creed or class of it's victims.

I think it's wrong to turn Hillsborough into a political axe for your own agenda whatever that might be.

Shame? You can take it from this that the establishment saw no issue with smearing others to protect themselves and they used their position in society to enforce that.

The sun headlines that Police and MPs repeated calling them drunks and theives was shameful and for a long time the British public bought the lie

If it wasn't for the hillsborough victims families - this never would have been challenged

K-9

martingriff wrote: »

Also do not forget that Hysel was only a few years befor it where some Liverpool fans were to blame so it was easy for them to make a correlation also in that way

Indeed, Millwall, Chelsea etc.

Painting with a big brush is easier than doing the corners!

corwill

corwill wrote: »

Leave politics out of an enormous establishment cover-up of mass unlawful killings, in which a number of institutions, some of the state, have been implicated and even found culpable of?

You might as well suggest leaving oxygen out of breathing, or food out of eating. Mind-boggling naïveté.

Just off the top of my head, Sir Bernard Ingham's (Maggie's press secretary) letter in 1996, just one of several in a similar vein, and there's Boris Johnson MP's Spectator article in 2004, which he didn't apologise for until 2012 (this clown could be the next PM over there!).

I actually don't know how one could go about taking the politics out of something like the Hillsborough tragedy and cover-up.

acquiescefc

Good luck with suing Sheffield Wednesday PLC, it doesnt exist.

Badly policed was the order of the day im afraid and they tried and succeeded to cover it up. Duckenfield shouldve took his half arsed apology to the grave. I was in the same class as his daughter in school and we used to see him in the pub, not a care on him.

The inadequacies of the Lepp and Hillsborough were already well documented in the Taylor report todays comments are nothing new. Its like saying you should sue the owners at Valley Parade. If any of you went to a big game in the 80s you will have experienced similar. There was no such thing as H&S in those days. Compounded with a lot of very tragic factors, some obviously through severe malpractice, this happened and hopefully never again.

Horrendous day that will never be forgotten, the Police cover up is unforgiveable but its the way of the world unfortunately and its only the perseverance of the families for fighting to get the truth but sadly I dont think theres much you can do about it.

Korat

corwill wrote: »

I actually don't know how one could go about taking the politics out of something like the Hillsborough tragedy and cover-up.

The inquiry which gave it's verdict today didn't but do you think the political environment at the time should have been considered?

It might have given the authorities diminished responsiblity if the implied wishes of their government was known. Thatcher Britain etc..

corwill

Korat wrote: »

The inquiry which gave it's verdict today didn't but do you think the political environment at the time should have been considered?

It might have given the authorities diminished responsiblity if the implied wishes of their government was known. Thatcher Britain etc..

Probably too remote in a legal sense for it to be a meaningful part of something like this inquest, but we should all be free to discuss and recognise how what happened was ultimately the manifestation of policies pursued by an evil, wrong-wing Tory establishment with not a care in the world for the well-being of anyone without the good fortune to either be born or become wealthy.

mikeym

Some very interesting and informative posts.

The Man Utd Fans have my respect not one foul post.

Im a long term Liverpool fan and one of my earliest memories of Liverpool FC was watching the BBC news report on the disaster

I didnt understand the gravity of the incident at the time because I was too young.

Im so happy for the families of the 96 that died that they got justice.

I looked at a lot of videos on youtube to find out as much information as I could and I watched the family members talk about their loved ones before they died. Very sad to watch at times

YNWA

mansize

Kelvin MacKenzie now blames the police for his actions. That man has no backbone

Korat

corwill wrote: »

Probably too remote in a legal sense for it to be a meaningful part of something like this inquest, but we should all be free to discuss and recognise how what happened was ultimately the manifestation of policies pursued by an evil, wrong-wing Tory establishment with not a care in the world for the well-being of anyone without the good fortune to either be born or become wealthy.

A football forum probably isn't the place to explore this further. Hijacking a Hillsborough thread will annoy a lot of people too. So that's the end of that for me.

adox

I'm 49 so remember the incident well. I still have vivid images in my brain of newspaper photos of the crush. Women literally being crushed to death against the fence. Absolutely sickening imagery. Can't remember what paper it was but Jesus, what tasteless photos to have on their front page.

SEPT 23 1989

Korat wrote: »

That’s a politically loaded statement and shame on you for playing politics with a tragedy.

Fans can set aside tribalism out of respect and common decency, politics should have no place either.

In my view Britain had a serious problem with acknowledging institutional wrongdoing at the time and had a culture of covering up scandals regardless of the race, creed or class of it's victims.

I think it's wrong to turn Hillsborough into a political axe for your own agenda whatever that might be.

Do you think the same outcome would have happened at Twickenham or Lords

This has everything to do with class

I hope the family's can sleep slightly better tonight

RIP to all the reds who were killed that day

Liam McPoyle

adox wrote: »

I'm 49 so remember the incident well. I still have vivid images in my brain of newspaper photos of the crush. Women literally being crushed to death against the fence. Absolutely sickening imagery. Can't remember what paper it was but Jesus, what tasteless photos to have on their front page.

I remember watching the aftermath myself, its ingrained in my mind as it was the day I had my 10th birthday party. I have vivid recollections of watching it with my Dad, with no idea what was unfolding in front of my eyes.

Scant solace to those that died and their families but at least it brought about significant changes to health and safety at sporting events. As is usually the way it takes something truly horrific before something good can happen.

A Dub in Glasgo

Watched the tragedy unfold at the time and it makes you angry. A tear in the eye today, fair play to the families and all those who fought for this

El Weirdo

adox wrote: »

... Can't remember what paper it was...

I'll give you 3 guesses.

acquiescefc

El Weirdo wrote: »

I'll give you 3 guesses.

and you'd be wrong

adox

El Weirdo wrote: »

I'll give you 3 guesses.

To be honest I'm not 100% sure which one it is(yes I know the sun would be the obvious one) but if I had to hazard a guess I'd say it may have been The Mirror.

acquiescefc

adox wrote: »

To be honest I'm not 100% sure which one it is(yes I know the sun would be the obvious one) but if I had to hazard a guess I'd say it may have been The Mirror.

you would be correct. fact is greater than some peoples assumption

CSF

Great news for the families of the victims. Those who have never fully been able to complete the mourning process as they've been so pre-occupied with fighting for justice for their deceased. I can't imagine how difficult a life that is so I hope today can begin the healing process.

The 'as a *insert club here* supporter posts are weird in situations like this. Your support of a football club has no context when it comes to the death of so many.

El Weirdo

acquiescefc wrote: »

and you'd be wrong

No I wouldn't.

On the Monday, The Sun printed a full front page picture of fans crushed up against the fences.

ETA: Along with a "6 page Sun disaster special starting on page 2".

SEPT 23 1989

CSF wrote: »

Great news for the families of the victims. Those who have never fully been able to complete the mourning process as they've been so pre-occupied with fighting for justice for their deceased. I can't imagine how difficult a life that is so I hope today can begin the healing process.

The 'as a *insert club here* supporter posts are weird in situations like this. Your support of a football club has no context when it comes to the death of so many.

They are reaching a hand out when usually there is total hatred your right though all I see are people not colours looking out through those bloody fences

Kirby

CSF wrote: »

Great news for the families of the victims. Those who have never fully been able to complete the mourning process as they've been so pre-occupied with fighting for justice for their deceased. I can't imagine how difficult a life that is so I hope today can begin the healing process.

The 'as a *insert club here* supporter posts are weird in situations like this. Your support of a football club has no context when it comes to the death of so many.

By the same token, this really shouldn't be in here though.

I realise the forum has many Liverpool supporters but as you said yourself, this has nothing to do with football. Serious issues like this don't belong in here. This isn't related to football. People died.

El Weirdo

Kirby wrote: »

By the same token, this really shouldn't be in here though.

I realise the forum has many Liverpool supporters but as you said yourself, this has nothing to do with football. Serious issues like this don't belong in here. This isn't related to football. People died.

It is absolutely related to football.

I (as well as a few others in here, I'm sure) remember what it was like to be a fan attending matches in the 80s. This could have happened to any of us.

Korat

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Do you think the same outcome would have happened at Twickenham or Lords

Did they or do they have to segregate fans at those venues?

Were England fans treated the same as any other visiting fans when they came to Lansdowne last year?

Soccer is not the same as rugby or GAA or cricket. Explain it any way you want but soccer comes with a higher risk of violence. Ireland knows well the outcome if you aren't prepared when it happens. We were lucky lives weren't lost in '95.

None of which is relevent to what happened at Hillsborough.

SEPT 23 1989

El Weirdo wrote: »

It is absolutely related to football.

I (as well as a few others in here, I'm sure) remember what it was like to be a fan attending matches in the 80s. This could have happened to any of us.

the " match day experience " back then would scare the life out of kids today

theoneeyedman

Korat wrote: »

The inquiry which gave it's verdict today didn't but do you think the political environment at the time should have been considered?

It might have given the authorities diminished responsiblity if the implied wishes of their government was known. Thatcher Britain etc..

A an inquest will determine is who died, when, where, & how. They won't look into the political environment that led to what happened.
Remember, the Miners strike was only 5 years or so before Hillsborough, and a lot of the senior police in Yorkshire were involved in the political policing at that time, acting as strike breakers and boot boys for Mrs Thatcher to break the Trade Union movement. It was also at a time when a number of Irish people were fighting to overturn their own miscarriages of justice, and the reputation of the police was under threat. There was no way that Tory government of the time and the Establishment were going to do anything else but close ranks around the Police, at the expense of Sh1t from Liverpool who they saw as anything from scroungers to communists.
To expect to discuss Hillsborough and the cover up without taking the politics of the time into account is crazy...... it's all political.

K-9

mansize wrote: »

Kelvin MacKenzie now blames the police for his actions. That man has no backbone

So he's a victim...

Guy had 27 years to think about it, wouldn't expect any better.

mikeym

Most of the British newspapers have the Hillsborough verdict on the front page except the SCUM and The Times.

Don't buy the Sun. They gave a half arsed apology back in 2012.

willmunny1990

MD1990 wrote: »

Great news for the families. Now get The Sun shut down.

This is nonsense, the sun simply reported the information they received at the time and from a source they or anyone else could only assume was genuine.

The hatred that some people on here allegedly have for a foreign newspaper is absurd, people being so offended by the sun that they spell it like S#N is ridiculous and laughable when id go as far as saying nearly next to no one on here has any real, genuine connection to the incident.

Tragedies and injustices happen all over the world everyday and nobody gives a ****, just because you support Liverpool doesn't warrant or deserve this faux, and very much put on, outrage for an incident that people have no emotional connection to.